I don't care what anyone else thinks. I know 4e is a dirty word to some people and I know that what happened to FR in it is considered blasphemy, but separate nostalgia and fanaticism from it, and it was a great setting with some really interesting and fun changes.
I firmly believe that if the core concepts of 4e FR were done in a custom setting specifically for it, that it would've been a hit. It was only the baggage and outrage of it being done to FR that caused so much backlash against it.
Floating earth motes, an exposed section of the underdark so massive you could fit Britain into it, the spellplague and a bunch of other stuff were really cool.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Are you planning to incorporate what was done with 4e FR into your campaign or into notes somewhere to share?
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Host of the Pocket Mimic Podcast, a D&D 5e Show! Join us and listen in as we build a new world step by step! (http://Pocketmimic.com) DMs vs PCs! All DMs are evil | ENnie Award Winner | OSR style in a 5e world |1000+ character souls taken | 25+ yrs exp Remember to hit the thanks button, if you feel my info was useful, it helps me know I've provided helpful information and know I'm on the right track.
I don't care what anyone else thinks. I know 4e is a dirty word to some people and I know that what happened to FR in it is considered blasphemy, but separate nostalgia and fanaticism from it, and it was a great setting with some really interesting and fun changes.
I firmly believe that if the core concepts of 4e FR were done in a custom setting specifically for it, that it would've been a hit. It was only the baggage and outrage of it being done to FR that caused so much backlash against it.
Floating earth motes, an exposed section of the underdark so massive you could fit Britain into it, the spellplague and a bunch of other stuff were really cool.
Well, the problem was three-fold:
A: The geographic changes. Some of it, like you mention, were rather awesome. And it gave a chance to wipe the slate clean of ethic-based areas (like Maztica) and replace them with fresh, unknown territory,. If they had published more materials, I think it would have had a chance to catch on.
B: The timejump. "Let's fast-forward over a hundred years! Who cares about continuity?" Yeah. That was a really, really unwise idea.
C: The mechanics. 4E is a wonderful way to play a MMORPG at a table with dice. That's just not what the market wanted. And now we're stuck with a glacial release schedule because of it.
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Yeah, like I said, if it was divorced from FR then I think the concepts in it would've made a great stand-alone setting. It's a shame they didn't do it with the 3e "Generic" setting where a lot of modules were set, like Forge of Fury and Sunless Citadel.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
I don't care what anyone else thinks. I know 4e is a dirty word to some people and I know that what happened to FR in it is considered blasphemy, but separate nostalgia and fanaticism from it, and it was a great setting with some really interesting and fun changes.
I firmly believe that if the core concepts of 4e FR were done in a custom setting specifically for it, that it would've been a hit. It was only the baggage and outrage of it being done to FR that caused so much backlash against it.
Floating earth motes, an exposed section of the underdark so massive you could fit Britain into it, the spellplague and a bunch of other stuff were really cool.
Agreed on all points.
It was a great setting. Also 4e was great, and people who say it was like an mmo are being silly. :D
It's hard to decry the mmo-esque qualities of 4E when even mmorpg.com recognized them and ran an article on it.
It was, by design, set up to emphasize tabletop combat simulation over roleplay, in order to attract a new target audience. If it had worked, people would have praised their brilliance.
It's just a shame that it didn't.
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It's hard to decry the mmo-esque qualities of 4E when even mmorpg.com recognized them and ran an article on it.
That's a ridiculous assertion.
And you've already said that you don't care what anyone else thinks.
Be that as it may, other people can read the article and draw their own conclusions.
So because some random nobody writes an article on a website somewhere, that automatically makes it all true?
By that logic, everything posted on Breitbart and said by Alan Jones is 100% Truth™.
Not only that, but this thread isn't even about 4e so what point you had in coming in here to tell everyone how crappy you think a system is, with PROOVVF!, is suspect at best and not furthering the topic or adding to the conversation at worst.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
It's hard to decry the mmo-esque qualities of 4E...
It is, however, very easy to point out that 4E feeling similar to how a video-game RPG happened to work isn't a trait that is unique to 4E, since AD&D was a direct inspiration for a number of video games (other than those with official D&D branding, i.e. Final Fantasy), those games in turn inspired different takes on table-top gaming, then the cycle continued with those table-top games serving as inspiration for more video games.
And with the 3rd edition rules set being the one actually lent to a MMO in relatively direct fashion, while also being the rules set used for the first direct adaptations of MMOs (specifically World of Warcraft and Everquest) to table-top format.
So really, the "4th edition is like an MMO" claim is arbitrary nay saying that may as well be "this game uses dice!" for how not actually specific to only that one version of the game it is.
It's hard to decry the mmo-esque qualities of 4E when even mmorpg.com recognized them and ran an article on it.
It was, by design, set up to emphasize tabletop combat simulation over roleplay, in order to attract a new target audience. If it had worked, people would have praised their brilliance.
It's just a shame that it didn't.
IT doesn't actually do that, or play like an mmo, so all of that is irrelevant.
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We do bones, motherf***ker!
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I don't care what anyone else thinks. I know 4e is a dirty word to some people and I know that what happened to FR in it is considered blasphemy, but separate nostalgia and fanaticism from it, and it was a great setting with some really interesting and fun changes.
I firmly believe that if the core concepts of 4e FR were done in a custom setting specifically for it, that it would've been a hit. It was only the baggage and outrage of it being done to FR that caused so much backlash against it.
Floating earth motes, an exposed section of the underdark so massive you could fit Britain into it, the spellplague and a bunch of other stuff were really cool.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Are you planning to incorporate what was done with 4e FR into your campaign or into notes somewhere to share?
Host of the Pocket Mimic Podcast, a D&D 5e Show! Join us and listen in as we build a new world step by step! (http://Pocketmimic.com)
DMs vs PCs! All DMs are evil | ENnie Award Winner | OSR style in a 5e world |1000+ character souls taken | 25+ yrs exp
Remember to hit the thanks button, if you feel my info was useful, it helps me know I've provided helpful information and know I'm on the right track.
A: The geographic changes. Some of it, like you mention, were rather awesome. And it gave a chance to wipe the slate clean of ethic-based areas (like Maztica) and replace them with fresh, unknown territory,. If they had published more materials, I think it would have had a chance to catch on.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
Yeah, like I said, if it was divorced from FR then I think the concepts in it would've made a great stand-alone setting. It's a shame they didn't do it with the 3e "Generic" setting where a lot of modules were set, like Forge of Fury and Sunless Citadel.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
It's hard to decry the mmo-esque qualities of 4E when even mmorpg.com recognized them and ran an article on it.
It was, by design, set up to emphasize tabletop combat simulation over roleplay, in order to attract a new target audience. If it had worked, people would have praised their brilliance.
It's just a shame that it didn't.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
By that logic, everything posted on Breitbart and said by Alan Jones is 100% Truth™.
Not only that, but this thread isn't even about 4e so what point you had in coming in here to tell everyone how crappy you think a system is, with PROOVVF!, is suspect at best and not furthering the topic or adding to the conversation at worst.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
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D&D Beyond FoundersThis discussion is getting a little heated but nobody has been out of order yet, so just a friendly reminder to not let it boil over please. :)
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Some basic research brings you to Ryan Dancey's commentary.
It's an interesting read, and helps explain the evolution of 4E, and how MMORPGs played a role in that.
You can believe Mr. Dancey or not.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
We do bones, motherf***ker!