We know IRL the game designers came up with The Great Wheel Cosmology; obviously.
In-Universe though, who discovered this information?
What cleric, scientist, alchemist, explorer, priest, cultist, religious zealot, cursed wastrel, or other such being was responsible for discovering and documenting/mapping a 2-Dimensional Top-Down view of The Planes' 3D Spinning Dynamo shape?
What city is the other spin-bearing on the other end of the spindle through the center of the universe, holding it in place?
What surrounds the OUTSIDE edge of The Far Realm?
Makes yah think, don't it?
------------------------------------------
Any thoughts, opinions, or insights would be greatly appreciated. :-)
(Keep it G-Rated please, I don't want anyone getting kicked off the platform on my account just for asking a silly question.)
obviously, no recent person did. I have always assumeed that the various "cosmology views" (Great wheel and world Tree) have come down from the ancients in what has been taught folks. they both may have been invented/discovered multiple times given the various (published) worlds. Given their histories as I know them I would say your best bet would be one of the Sarukh Archmages that developed the Nether Scrolls roughly 30,000 years ago as they are probably the oldest (known) group of Archmages that would have had the ability to planewalk and explore all the planes.
That berings up a different thought as well. Given that they were able to create the Nether scrolls shouldnt folks like the Terraseer have actually read the entire thing - maybe several times - long before they were discovered by the elves and later the Netherese? I think (and I'm not going to try to find that reference so I may be wrong) that back in 3e reading one of the scrolls would, like many of the librams, grant you the experience to move to the middle of the next level as a mage. Given that there are 50 scrolls wouldn't that mean that folks like the Terraseer are actually at least L50 as archmages?
Hm! That is a very interesting thought indeed! I had not yet come across that particular lore, as I was focusing primarily on the overall cosmology and its possible origins in general, so I have not gotten that deep yet. But that is an excellent hole to dive into next!
Okay, that's funny. I have world-built and homebrewed a whole lot on this topic. For instance, in my universe, the Great Wheel is only part of the planes in existence, because in reality it is the Great Sphere. No longer just a 2D understanding of a 3D universe, eh? An aspect of lore I thought was lost across the main books was the Positive and Negative Energy planes respectively, although I have devised a cosmology that solves for their location amidst it all. On either side of the Great Wheel is the positive and negative energy planes that have reacted over time to form new planes altogether. 8 Positive Planes and 8 Negative Planes.
Beyond the outer reaches of the Far Realm is the ravenous void I have named Oblivion. A space devoid of magic and alignment, only the hunger and reality-warping will of the monsters that have been banished there. It makes more sense since the Great Sphere holds all the "normal" magic, both positive and negative, that is well documented... but as you drift further away from this, it becomes twisted and alien, as the Far Realm surrounds it, before there isn't any at all.
there are lots of lore channels on youtube - most are focused on Forgotten Realms since it is the "default" of 5e, but they mostly do go way back in the history of the lore.
my favorite is Jorphdan. but there are also MrRhexx (who unfortunately often mushes all the lore together not differentiating between Editions and Settings), Esper the Bard and many of the Dungeoncast episodes. DungeonDad goes into the deep lore to find strange monsters and does a 5e refresh.
There are also channels focusing on Greyhawk and probably Dragonlance and potentially even Eberron. but those settings are not my jam so i dont have any specific insight. but they should be easily found by basic youtube searching and then the Almighty Algorithm will start suggesting others once you have established what you search for and watch and like.
Honestly, probably the first modrons. They do do a march around the outer plains every few 289 years (I know, ridiculously specific). It could be that early Primus sent modrons out on scouting missions to see just what they were bringing order to and decided to "cleanse" the outer planes every so often because they have the most chaos.
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We know IRL the game designers came up with The Great Wheel Cosmology; obviously.
In-Universe though, who discovered this information?
What cleric, scientist, alchemist, explorer, priest, cultist, religious zealot, cursed wastrel, or other such being was responsible for discovering and documenting/mapping a 2-Dimensional Top-Down view of The Planes' 3D Spinning Dynamo shape?
What city is the other spin-bearing on the other end of the spindle through the center of the universe, holding it in place?
What surrounds the OUTSIDE edge of The Far Realm?
Makes yah think, don't it?
------------------------------------------
Any thoughts, opinions, or insights would be greatly appreciated. :-)
(Keep it G-Rated please, I don't want anyone getting kicked off the platform on my account just for asking a silly question.)
obviously, no recent person did. I have always assumeed that the various "cosmology views" (Great wheel and world Tree) have come down from the ancients in what has been taught folks. they both may have been invented/discovered multiple times given the various (published) worlds. Given their histories as I know them I would say your best bet would be one of the Sarukh Archmages that developed the Nether Scrolls roughly 30,000 years ago as they are probably the oldest (known) group of Archmages that would have had the ability to planewalk and explore all the planes.
That berings up a different thought as well. Given that they were able to create the Nether scrolls shouldnt folks like the Terraseer have actually read the entire thing - maybe several times - long before they were discovered by the elves and later the Netherese? I think (and I'm not going to try to find that reference so I may be wrong) that back in 3e reading one of the scrolls would, like many of the librams, grant you the experience to move to the middle of the next level as a mage. Given that there are 50 scrolls wouldn't that mean that folks like the Terraseer are actually at least L50 as archmages?
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Hm! That is a very interesting thought indeed! I had not yet come across that particular lore, as I was focusing primarily on the overall cosmology and its possible origins in general, so I have not gotten that deep yet. But that is an excellent hole to dive into next!
Thank you very kindly for your response. :-)
You may very well be correct in fact. :-)
Okay, that's funny. I have world-built and homebrewed a whole lot on this topic. For instance, in my universe, the Great Wheel is only part of the planes in existence, because in reality it is the Great Sphere. No longer just a 2D understanding of a 3D universe, eh? An aspect of lore I thought was lost across the main books was the Positive and Negative Energy planes respectively, although I have devised a cosmology that solves for their location amidst it all. On either side of the Great Wheel is the positive and negative energy planes that have reacted over time to form new planes altogether. 8 Positive Planes and 8 Negative Planes.
Beyond the outer reaches of the Far Realm is the ravenous void I have named Oblivion. A space devoid of magic and alignment, only the hunger and reality-warping will of the monsters that have been banished there. It makes more sense since the Great Sphere holds all the "normal" magic, both positive and negative, that is well documented... but as you drift further away from this, it becomes twisted and alien, as the Far Realm surrounds it, before there isn't any at all.
If you're interested my recent post is here.
there are lots of lore channels on youtube - most are focused on Forgotten Realms since it is the "default" of 5e, but they mostly do go way back in the history of the lore.
my favorite is Jorphdan. but there are also MrRhexx (who unfortunately often mushes all the lore together not differentiating between Editions and Settings), Esper the Bard and many of the Dungeoncast episodes. DungeonDad goes into the deep lore to find strange monsters and does a 5e refresh.
There are also channels focusing on Greyhawk and probably Dragonlance and potentially even Eberron. but those settings are not my jam so i dont have any specific insight. but they should be easily found by basic youtube searching and then the Almighty Algorithm will start suggesting others once you have established what you search for and watch and like.
Honestly, probably the first modrons. They do do a march around the outer plains every few 289 years (I know, ridiculously specific). It could be that early Primus sent modrons out on scouting missions to see just what they were bringing order to and decided to "cleanse" the outer planes every so often because they have the most chaos.