Another DM and myself (being grad students in economics) started talking about the shape that a monetary system would take in a fantasy world. I intend for this thread to be a recounting of our discussion, and to spark other creative ideas you may have. For most games and groups this is a detail to be pushed aside. The key issue I had was that for a mid- to high-magic setting, counterfeiting would be way too easy to accomplish, and trust way too costly to establish. For some background, some recent theories of monetary exchange argue that money is a solution to the problem that in an anonymous environment, buyers and sellers have little incentive to follow through on contracts. Money provides an instantaneous means to provide compensation that doesn't rely on the creditworthiness of either party. Efficiency gains come from, among other things, reducing the costs associated with monitoring market participants enabling a society to avoid a laborious barter system.
TL;DR: money solves trust issues.
In D&D, a cantrip as simple as minor illusion would be able to cause plenty of havoc with this system, let alone higher level spells including charm person, disguise self, creation, arcanist's magic aura, etc. You could think of any number of combinations of lower-level spells that could cause a problem. One solution would be for every merchant to establish a mobile antimagic field or use true seeing, but that seems costly enough as to eliminate many of the efficiency gains from using a monetary system. Things get even stranger when you include banks and credit. Credit in a standard D&D setting would be very difficult to establish due to the availability of tools to commit fraud.
So my friend and I came to discuss methods to support a monetary system in D&D without being overly costly. Some of the results may entertain.
First, my friend considered transferable IOUs as a form of fiat or backed currency. A system of banks or a central bank would stamp each note or coin with an arcane mark such as a permanent version of illusory script. Critically, the specific marking spell would be custom made and involve a secret recipe or material component known only to official sources. Each bank branch would be staffed by either a wizard or some worker who has the ability to use identify (perhaps an enchanted monocle). This which allow the worker to verify that the arcane mark was created by a verified source, since the spell would be able to distinguish which spell was used to create the mark. On the other hand, the identify spell would not reveal the details of how the marking spell is cast. Access to identify would also allow a banker to perceive whether a standard coin was created magically. One could consider a wizard attempting to draw a line of credit on a high-value item as collateral, then use instant summons to retrieve the item. One solution could be that the bank would not be willing to hold any item worth more than 1000 gp unless it is heavy enough (>10 pounds) which denies the ability to use the spell. Alternatively, a clever magically-inclined bank could create a swarm of constructs or a very large tamed bag of devouring to be used as a vault, which would hold all such items. This would similarly restrict the spell, since the item would be considered "held" by a creature. I believe the 3e Epic Level Handbook has a living vault monster that could fill this role.
As a Planescape enthusiast, I considered solutions which would outsource verification problems to extraplanar entities of law. I considered a high-magic setting where banks each pay a licensing fee to the modrons or the archdevil Mammon to keep records of each transaction. The extraplanar force would issue each branch a very large magical book which would be linked to the extraplanar force. Entries in each book would be instantly relayed to every other book after being cleared by a corps of chipper modrons or truly damned souls, and accounts would be linked to individuals through an abbreviated version of their truename. This would act similar to a centralized ledger with a system of magical ID numbers. My friend and I considered what item would be used as a "numeraire", which is economist speak for a base unit of accounting. The only item that I imagined would be standard across the planes would be a newborn soul. I could imagine competition among these extraplanar banks as an extension of larger power struggles. Imagine infernal banks that would make standardized loans to individuals using their souls as collateral, then using the profits to wage the Blood War. The establishment of a truly evil nation on the material plane could cause soul inflation, as infernal banks find themselves flush with extra souls.
Anyway, I have plenty of other ideas, but have any of you given thought to fantasy economics, or know of any fantasy literature that deals with these issues?
Coiners ash- one of the few items traded from the honey-combs. is a particular volcanic ash that when mixed with pure metal.. and one ratio of mixed (electrum; no one knows why or isn't saying) when mixed with soft metal creates a ceramic.. of pure metal. forcing out slag.. and has the odd characteristic that each metal/ash mix has the same density and weight. Is sometimes called "smelters dust". The ceramic it hard.. and each metal sings a different tone, but it is possible to scrape the edges.. but if done breaking the surface tension of the metal/ceramic.. turns it to dust/sand.
even iron is used to make coins.. but this is done by "trade association banks" these banks store Trade; gold, silver, salt, wheat, etc. and the Iron coins are considered "Bearer bonds" of some denomination of GP worth of their stores of that particular trade good. paper bank notes for such trade goods also exist. as matter of fact in areas devoid of villages,towns, and cities, "unpopulated" by civilized folk ;^), iron, and "mud" bearer coins [quite literally clay cast and bless...}
are the most common currency.
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Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
Anyway, I have plenty of other ideas, but have any of you given thought to fantasy economics, or know of any fantasy literature that deals with these issues?
The original source material for Eberron covers some this. House Kundarak (banking) does deal with letters of credit, which are notarized by House Sivis (scribing). The marked letters are very very hard to forge. House Kundarak vaults are magical safe deposit boxes that are accessible at any branch, allowing for rapid transfer of coin, and letters of credit around. Most of these services require dragonshards and a dragonmarked scion which is how the various houses maintain a monopoly status in the areas they control. In Eberron you almost have enough magical tech, that a fiat currency becomes feasible, but its unlikely to take hold in the mind of commoner. Fraud for Kundarak would be having too many letters of credit, and not enough gold to cover it. Makes for a plot and adventure in the bowels of Sharn trying to find who has perfected a way to forge Sivis notaries.
In Forgotten Realms, the only discussion that jumps to mind are trade bars, which are stamped and are worth a particular denomination of gold, even though the bar may be far less. These are almost exclusively used by large merchant costers, and not the commoner (or adventurer on a day to day basis). Some cities have custom coins, worth a high value in the city they were created in, and a lower one else where. I seem to remember somewhere that Electrum gets a bad rap, because the ratio of gold to silver is questionable. Many counterfeiting operations are about lower quality precious metal coins (impure gold, or other base metals. See the alchemist stone for the Transmuter wizard).
I like your Planescape write up, the Blood War's economics would be interesting. For contracts, I would think that any contract written in Infernal, would be followed by the Baatorians to the letter; no more and no less, so they wouldn't NEED to have a higher authority. Some are slippery though (Glasya for example), so good luck on appealing a decision to her father. That and I can't imagine a Baatorian willingly making themselves subject to another's will; but there are Inevitables like the Marut for really big contracts. Yugoloths do contracts all the time, and [Tooltip Not Found] handle the contract details (and loopholes). They cheat to a point, but everyone knows that. So their bargains are mostly good, but someone can outbid you :). Tanar'ri like Red Shroud might use them if it was important.
But as far as currency; Gold, Gems or Souls. Pick one. Some souls have higher quality ones, and I seem to remember that fiends are good judges of a ones worth. Gems are the universal currency as fiends don't use silver or platinum, and Celestials aren't keen on gold. But I would also imagine that gold and gems are the inferior currency compared to souls. A Baatorian (outside of Mammon) would throw coin at a mortal, to get their soul; and they can and will wait for it. Souls are consumed for...reasons (I don't want to know what the Night Hag does with them, and the Baatorian lose souls on Avernus all the time, and the Tanar'ri use them for snacks) so there is a constant drain on available souls. Coins, gems aren't consumed in the same way.
In the end it probably would be gold/gems for goods (greensteel, etc) and Souls for services. Makes for interesting negotiations...
"I'm sorry, but Baatorian soul market has been flooded recently, so the cost of our services has gone up; you need to offer your soul and your brothers for this..."
This is kinda down in the weeds stuff that most folks don't want to clutter up the game, but is an interesting discussion nonetheless.
Someone earlier brought up the problem with teleportation that can lead to all sorts of economic mischief and someone else mentioned that any sort of possession or charm would likely be considered a high crime. So lets talk about money ...
What could a small town merchant do to deal with this issue? First, within the community there would probably be a strong tradition of bartering. But the merchant would need to acquire goods from outside the community. How would these goods be paid for? If the government were well organized, he might be able to barter with the government to convert his excess chickens, firewood and cloth into money that would be paid to the caravan or shipper that brought him his outside goods. The government would need protection from counterfeiting because they would be dealing in currency. But their protection could be in the form of teleportation on a small scale sufficient to send coins.
So how about adventurers coming to town? How would they deal with the merchant? If they wanted something modest the merchant may take their money and the risk. Or the merchant may force them to deal with the government to verify their money was real before agreeing to a transaction. This could be interesting but rather simple also using the teleportation to interact with an entity able to verify the coinage. Once verified, the government would issue a letter of credit but there would be transaction fees for the government. The players likewise would then have issues with trusting the government to live up to their end of the bargain.
Another approach might use a simple jail. In the fantasy world jails may often be constructed with an artifact that casts a permanent dispel magic effect within a radius of xx meters. If someone from outside the community wants to spend their coinage they might have to visit the jail. They would place their bag of coins on the sheriff's desk and he would pour out the coins for several onlookers to see. Then he would return the coins to the bag after weighing them and recording the metal (alloy) of the coins. A scribe would tally up the value of the bag of coins and the bag would be locked in a holding safe and a letter of credit issued with a stamp from the scribe (notary). The players could then spend on their letter of credit. When they leave town, they settle up with the sheriff.
And what about the party returning with a huge treasure chest? Well, they could convert it all into a letter of credit, but this would be inadvisable. Now all their money is tied up in a single government's promise to recognize the letter of credit. Therefore, they could convert some of the treasure and tote the rest. Their letter of credit could remain or they could take it with them, but either options has a downside. If they leave it behind, then they have to hope that government keeps their word and maintains power in the town/city. There would also be some amount of transaction fees. If they take the letter with them, they have to be concerned if the letter will be honored in the next community they find. The letter could be stolen or just ruined (burned, washed or other problem).
And there is the question of how the arrival of a large treasure might cause inflation.
And although I am not an economist, I thought the advent of currency allowed an economic concept called specialization. This was very important in allowing civilizations to advance beyond an agrarian level. With specialization a man can produce more of a commodity than he is able to use. The excess is converted to currency and offered in exchange for other goods and services. I always thought the other issues concerning the use of money were secondary to this important economic necessity.
I look forward to more on this subject, but I doubt many gamers will find anything useful in their game. It is an interesting subject with other game applications.
...The original source material for Eberron covers some this...
...In Forgotten Realms, the only discussion that jumps to mind...
This is absurdly interesting to me. Thanks! Speaking of using souls as currency, I remember that I made a homebrew magic item that holds souls, which can be used to smooth over negotiations with liches and devils. I'll need to figure out what sort of other multiplanar beings value souls. Canonically, demons couldn't care less about souls and celestials would probably find the idea blashphemous.
This is kinda down in the weeds stuff that most folks don't want to clutter up the game, but is an interesting discussion nonetheless...
Yeah, I agree. I'm actually one of those folks who appreciated the d20 Modern approach which abstracts from wealth by using a type of attribute. My motivation is purely curiosity. I also imagine that, although this sort of stuff won't be useful for most campaigns, the structure of the D&D economy could be used to motivate new adventures and create interesting plot hooks. The rogue may not think too much about their theiving past until they realize that the bauble they stole was covered by an obscure interplanar covenant between angels and demons.
As for inflation, you're pretty close to the historical truth. The "acquisition" of mesoamerican precious metals caused a big devaluation (inflation) in Spain in the 19th century. Also, specialization doesn't necessarily require money, but it helps. Basically, it's hard for me to specialize if I have a hard time finding somebody else who just so happens to want what I produce and have something I want. Money fixes that issue ("the double-coincidence" problem).
This reminds me of a recent campaign where they used illusions to make 1 gold bar seem like 15 to get a person to show them the relic that the person was selling. (Incidentally, they had purchased a fake in case they needed it... which they jammed onto the head of the seller once they had the real one... and immediately "cast" a cheese-it spell... meaning that they fled on foot.)
The ideas here would be perfect for the big movers and shakers in the fantasy settings... the people who have or are responsible for a lot of money. It's like combining modern monetary systems with magical fraud prevention.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I can see a role playing hook developing from this. A central bank has a secret group of respected magi who imprint a permanent illusory script on coinage and IOU notes in order to establish the trust necessary for the medium of exchange to actually work. A guild of thieves then kidnaps the magi, but when a group of mercenaries is hired to rescue them, the magi get kidnapped again by an orc warband. Players then have to content with thieves, mercenaries, and orcs to save these banker magi from a mountain stronghold. Maybe throw in a hollyphant just because.
In a way, the solution is not much different the way it happened in real history. It started with letters/IOU's and was eventually replaced by coins and such, or in Japan it was letters valued in bushels of rice. The magic makers mark and a history of honest dealing would be the solution. A bankers guild run by wizards with member banks in various kingdoms and the area rulers exclusive minting of coins with the aid of a wizard to imprint the coins with the appropriate value of the coins based on weight and material. the bankers guild would verify the deposits and weed out fraud. Any coins not properly marked could be refused or verified by weight and alchemical testing.
I've hoped to avoid the whole problem by putting the problem on the forger rather than the issuer.
The Sigil Mint
This is the mint that has produced coinage for the Kingdom of Haal for longer than anyone can remember. No one knows its location. Metals and gems are teleported and coins are returned (less a 5% fee) from its branches in large cities through the use of a teleport vault. Coins made by this mint, because of multiple layered Wish spells and secret Infernal pacts, cannot be counterfeit without dire consequences. These consequences are well known (DC10) to most people and automatically known to Rogues or Bards.
Anyone attempting to counterfeit a Sigil Mint coin takes 1pt of damage immediately. The damage per day increases by 1pt of damage for every following day (e.g. 10pts per day after 9 days have passed) until the coins are destroyed. Once dead the counterfeiter becomes a Soul Coin in Avernus. The counterfeited coins turn to dust at this point.
What if the guilds and the church were more reliable bankers that the government because they exist in towns and cities across borders? The Carpenter's Guild is still the guild and not a government entity, although the local guild still must respect the local government.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
What if the guilds and the church were more reliable bankers that the government because they exist in towns and cities across borders? The Carpenter's Guild is still the guild and not a government entity, although the local guild still must respect the local government.
There's historical precedent for this as well, especially during the Papal states. This is also why I think that the modrons on Mechanus would be a great interplanar banking group. They're meticulous record-keepers, and have inevitables to enforce penalties. Devils likewise have a lot to gain by having good records and enforcers. Devils being the ultimate source of monetary policy in D&D would be giving life to the saying that "money is the root of all evil".
This is a fun topic. Depending on how magic heavy your setting is, the base startup cost for a bank might include wards to detect and/or dispel illusions and charm effects. Wards against teleportation and similar spells would be needed as well. Vaults protected by globes of invulnerability or even prismatic walls would be great selling points. While all of the enchanting is proceeding, you might as well put in a circle of truth to host business deals.
I haven't tried anything like this in one of my games yet. I supposed it would be best to start with a new world and show the players how the banks are used by other adventurers to store their wealth. Only after giving those clues would I have someone try to steal their gold.
So in the initial post, it talks about the tools to commit fraud. Wasn't that the case when we started using currency? Over time, tools to counter that fraud becoming more common making the fraud harder to commit. No system is foolproof and relies a lot on everyone buying into the system.
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Hi all,
Another DM and myself (being grad students in economics) started talking about the shape that a monetary system would take in a fantasy world. I intend for this thread to be a recounting of our discussion, and to spark other creative ideas you may have. For most games and groups this is a detail to be pushed aside. The key issue I had was that for a mid- to high-magic setting, counterfeiting would be way too easy to accomplish, and trust way too costly to establish. For some background, some recent theories of monetary exchange argue that money is a solution to the problem that in an anonymous environment, buyers and sellers have little incentive to follow through on contracts. Money provides an instantaneous means to provide compensation that doesn't rely on the creditworthiness of either party. Efficiency gains come from, among other things, reducing the costs associated with monitoring market participants enabling a society to avoid a laborious barter system.
TL;DR: money solves trust issues.
In D&D, a cantrip as simple as minor illusion would be able to cause plenty of havoc with this system, let alone higher level spells including charm person, disguise self, creation, arcanist's magic aura, etc. You could think of any number of combinations of lower-level spells that could cause a problem. One solution would be for every merchant to establish a mobile antimagic field or use true seeing, but that seems costly enough as to eliminate many of the efficiency gains from using a monetary system. Things get even stranger when you include banks and credit. Credit in a standard D&D setting would be very difficult to establish due to the availability of tools to commit fraud.
So my friend and I came to discuss methods to support a monetary system in D&D without being overly costly. Some of the results may entertain.
First, my friend considered transferable IOUs as a form of fiat or backed currency. A system of banks or a central bank would stamp each note or coin with an arcane mark such as a permanent version of illusory script. Critically, the specific marking spell would be custom made and involve a secret recipe or material component known only to official sources. Each bank branch would be staffed by either a wizard or some worker who has the ability to use identify (perhaps an enchanted monocle). This which allow the worker to verify that the arcane mark was created by a verified source, since the spell would be able to distinguish which spell was used to create the mark. On the other hand, the identify spell would not reveal the details of how the marking spell is cast. Access to identify would also allow a banker to perceive whether a standard coin was created magically. One could consider a wizard attempting to draw a line of credit on a high-value item as collateral, then use instant summons to retrieve the item. One solution could be that the bank would not be willing to hold any item worth more than 1000 gp unless it is heavy enough (>10 pounds) which denies the ability to use the spell. Alternatively, a clever magically-inclined bank could create a swarm of constructs or a very large tamed bag of devouring to be used as a vault, which would hold all such items. This would similarly restrict the spell, since the item would be considered "held" by a creature. I believe the 3e Epic Level Handbook has a living vault monster that could fill this role.
As a Planescape enthusiast, I considered solutions which would outsource verification problems to extraplanar entities of law. I considered a high-magic setting where banks each pay a licensing fee to the modrons or the archdevil Mammon to keep records of each transaction. The extraplanar force would issue each branch a very large magical book which would be linked to the extraplanar force. Entries in each book would be instantly relayed to every other book after being cleared by a corps of chipper modrons or truly damned souls, and accounts would be linked to individuals through an abbreviated version of their truename. This would act similar to a centralized ledger with a system of magical ID numbers. My friend and I considered what item would be used as a "numeraire", which is economist speak for a base unit of accounting. The only item that I imagined would be standard across the planes would be a newborn soul. I could imagine competition among these extraplanar banks as an extension of larger power struggles. Imagine infernal banks that would make standardized loans to individuals using their souls as collateral, then using the profits to wage the Blood War. The establishment of a truly evil nation on the material plane could cause soul inflation, as infernal banks find themselves flush with extra souls.
Anyway, I have plenty of other ideas, but have any of you given thought to fantasy economics, or know of any fantasy literature that deals with these issues?
Coiners ash- one of the few items traded from the honey-combs.
is a particular volcanic ash that when mixed with pure metal.. and one ratio of mixed (electrum; no one knows why or isn't saying)
when mixed with soft metal creates a ceramic.. of pure metal. forcing out slag.. and has the odd characteristic that each metal/ash mix has the same density and weight.
Is sometimes called "smelters dust".
The ceramic it hard.. and each metal sings a different tone, but it is possible to scrape the edges.. but if done breaking the surface tension of the metal/ceramic.. turns it to dust/sand.
even iron is used to make coins.. but this is done by "trade association banks" these banks store Trade; gold, silver, salt, wheat, etc. and the Iron coins are considered "Bearer bonds" of some denomination of GP worth of their stores of that particular trade good.
paper bank notes for such trade goods also exist.
as matter of fact in areas devoid of villages,towns, and cities, "unpopulated" by civilized folk ;^), iron, and "mud" bearer coins [quite literally clay cast and bless...}
are the most common currency.
Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
The original source material for Eberron covers some this. House Kundarak (banking) does deal with letters of credit, which are notarized by House Sivis (scribing). The marked letters are very very hard to forge. House Kundarak vaults are magical safe deposit boxes that are accessible at any branch, allowing for rapid transfer of coin, and letters of credit around. Most of these services require dragonshards and a dragonmarked scion which is how the various houses maintain a monopoly status in the areas they control. In Eberron you almost have enough magical tech, that a fiat currency becomes feasible, but its unlikely to take hold in the mind of commoner. Fraud for Kundarak would be having too many letters of credit, and not enough gold to cover it. Makes for a plot and adventure in the bowels of Sharn trying to find who has perfected a way to forge Sivis notaries.
In Forgotten Realms, the only discussion that jumps to mind are trade bars, which are stamped and are worth a particular denomination of gold, even though the bar may be far less. These are almost exclusively used by large merchant costers, and not the commoner (or adventurer on a day to day basis). Some cities have custom coins, worth a high value in the city they were created in, and a lower one else where. I seem to remember somewhere that Electrum gets a bad rap, because the ratio of gold to silver is questionable. Many counterfeiting operations are about lower quality precious metal coins (impure gold, or other base metals. See the alchemist stone for the Transmuter wizard).
I like your Planescape write up, the Blood War's economics would be interesting. For contracts, I would think that any contract written in Infernal, would be followed by the Baatorians to the letter; no more and no less, so they wouldn't NEED to have a higher authority. Some are slippery though (Glasya for example), so good luck on appealing a decision to her father. That and I can't imagine a Baatorian willingly making themselves subject to another's will; but there are Inevitables like the Marut for really big contracts. Yugoloths do contracts all the time, and [Tooltip Not Found] handle the contract details (and loopholes). They cheat to a point, but everyone knows that. So their bargains are mostly good, but someone can outbid you :). Tanar'ri like Red Shroud might use them if it was important.
But as far as currency; Gold, Gems or Souls. Pick one. Some souls have higher quality ones, and I seem to remember that fiends are good judges of a ones worth. Gems are the universal currency as fiends don't use silver or platinum, and Celestials aren't keen on gold. But I would also imagine that gold and gems are the inferior currency compared to souls. A Baatorian (outside of Mammon) would throw coin at a mortal, to get their soul; and they can and will wait for it. Souls are consumed for...reasons (I don't want to know what the Night Hag does with them, and the Baatorian lose souls on Avernus all the time, and the Tanar'ri use them for snacks) so there is a constant drain on available souls. Coins, gems aren't consumed in the same way.
In the end it probably would be gold/gems for goods (greensteel, etc) and Souls for services. Makes for interesting negotiations...
"I'm sorry, but Baatorian soul market has been flooded recently, so the cost of our services has gone up; you need to offer your soul and your brothers for this..."
Just my thoughts on the matter...have fun.
This is kinda down in the weeds stuff that most folks don't want to clutter up the game, but is an interesting discussion nonetheless.
Someone earlier brought up the problem with teleportation that can lead to all sorts of economic mischief and someone else mentioned that any sort of possession or charm would likely be considered a high crime. So lets talk about money ...
What could a small town merchant do to deal with this issue? First, within the community there would probably be a strong tradition of bartering. But the merchant would need to acquire goods from outside the community. How would these goods be paid for? If the government were well organized, he might be able to barter with the government to convert his excess chickens, firewood and cloth into money that would be paid to the caravan or shipper that brought him his outside goods. The government would need protection from counterfeiting because they would be dealing in currency. But their protection could be in the form of teleportation on a small scale sufficient to send coins.
So how about adventurers coming to town? How would they deal with the merchant? If they wanted something modest the merchant may take their money and the risk. Or the merchant may force them to deal with the government to verify their money was real before agreeing to a transaction. This could be interesting but rather simple also using the teleportation to interact with an entity able to verify the coinage. Once verified, the government would issue a letter of credit but there would be transaction fees for the government. The players likewise would then have issues with trusting the government to live up to their end of the bargain.
Another approach might use a simple jail. In the fantasy world jails may often be constructed with an artifact that casts a permanent dispel magic effect within a radius of xx meters. If someone from outside the community wants to spend their coinage they might have to visit the jail. They would place their bag of coins on the sheriff's desk and he would pour out the coins for several onlookers to see. Then he would return the coins to the bag after weighing them and recording the metal (alloy) of the coins. A scribe would tally up the value of the bag of coins and the bag would be locked in a holding safe and a letter of credit issued with a stamp from the scribe (notary). The players could then spend on their letter of credit. When they leave town, they settle up with the sheriff.
And what about the party returning with a huge treasure chest? Well, they could convert it all into a letter of credit, but this would be inadvisable. Now all their money is tied up in a single government's promise to recognize the letter of credit. Therefore, they could convert some of the treasure and tote the rest. Their letter of credit could remain or they could take it with them, but either options has a downside. If they leave it behind, then they have to hope that government keeps their word and maintains power in the town/city. There would also be some amount of transaction fees. If they take the letter with them, they have to be concerned if the letter will be honored in the next community they find. The letter could be stolen or just ruined (burned, washed or other problem).
And there is the question of how the arrival of a large treasure might cause inflation.
And although I am not an economist, I thought the advent of currency allowed an economic concept called specialization. This was very important in allowing civilizations to advance beyond an agrarian level. With specialization a man can produce more of a commodity than he is able to use. The excess is converted to currency and offered in exchange for other goods and services. I always thought the other issues concerning the use of money were secondary to this important economic necessity.
I look forward to more on this subject, but I doubt many gamers will find anything useful in their game. It is an interesting subject with other game applications.
This is absurdly interesting to me. Thanks! Speaking of using souls as currency, I remember that I made a homebrew magic item that holds souls, which can be used to smooth over negotiations with liches and devils. I'll need to figure out what sort of other multiplanar beings value souls. Canonically, demons couldn't care less about souls and celestials would probably find the idea blashphemous.
Yeah, I agree. I'm actually one of those folks who appreciated the d20 Modern approach which abstracts from wealth by using a type of attribute. My motivation is purely curiosity. I also imagine that, although this sort of stuff won't be useful for most campaigns, the structure of the D&D economy could be used to motivate new adventures and create interesting plot hooks. The rogue may not think too much about their theiving past until they realize that the bauble they stole was covered by an obscure interplanar covenant between angels and demons.
As for inflation, you're pretty close to the historical truth. The "acquisition" of mesoamerican precious metals caused a big devaluation (inflation) in Spain in the 19th century. Also, specialization doesn't necessarily require money, but it helps. Basically, it's hard for me to specialize if I have a hard time finding somebody else who just so happens to want what I produce and have something I want. Money fixes that issue ("the double-coincidence" problem).
This reminds me of a recent campaign where they used illusions to make 1 gold bar seem like 15 to get a person to show them the relic that the person was selling. (Incidentally, they had purchased a fake in case they needed it... which they jammed onto the head of the seller once they had the real one... and immediately "cast" a cheese-it spell... meaning that they fled on foot.)
The ideas here would be perfect for the big movers and shakers in the fantasy settings... the people who have or are responsible for a lot of money. It's like combining modern monetary systems with magical fraud prevention.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I can see a role playing hook developing from this. A central bank has a secret group of respected magi who imprint a permanent illusory script on coinage and IOU notes in order to establish the trust necessary for the medium of exchange to actually work. A guild of thieves then kidnaps the magi, but when a group of mercenaries is hired to rescue them, the magi get kidnapped again by an orc warband. Players then have to content with thieves, mercenaries, and orcs to save these banker magi from a mountain stronghold. Maybe throw in a hollyphant just because.
Darbakh - Duergar warden [Pic] [Model]
Quorian - half-elf watcher [Model]
Ruffler - human wizard [Model]
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In a way, the solution is not much different the way it happened in real history. It started with letters/IOU's and was eventually replaced by coins and such, or in Japan it was letters valued in bushels of rice. The magic makers mark and a history of honest dealing would be the solution. A bankers guild run by wizards with member banks in various kingdoms and the area rulers exclusive minting of coins with the aid of a wizard to imprint the coins with the appropriate value of the coins based on weight and material. the bankers guild would verify the deposits and weed out fraud. Any coins not properly marked could be refused or verified by weight and alchemical testing.
I've hoped to avoid the whole problem by putting the problem on the forger rather than the issuer.
The Sigil Mint
This is the mint that has produced coinage for the Kingdom of Haal for longer than anyone can remember. No one knows its location. Metals and gems are teleported and coins are returned (less a 5% fee) from its branches in large cities through the use of a teleport vault. Coins made by this mint, because of multiple layered Wish spells and secret Infernal pacts, cannot be counterfeit without dire consequences. These consequences are well known (DC10) to most people and automatically known to Rogues or Bards.
Anyone attempting to counterfeit a Sigil Mint coin takes 1pt of damage immediately. The damage per day increases by 1pt of damage for every following day (e.g. 10pts per day after 9 days have passed) until the coins are destroyed. Once dead the counterfeiter becomes a Soul Coin in Avernus. The counterfeited coins turn to dust at this point.
What if the guilds and the church were more reliable bankers that the government because they exist in towns and cities across borders? The Carpenter's Guild is still the guild and not a government entity, although the local guild still must respect the local government.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
There's historical precedent for this as well, especially during the Papal states. This is also why I think that the modrons on Mechanus would be a great interplanar banking group. They're meticulous record-keepers, and have inevitables to enforce penalties. Devils likewise have a lot to gain by having good records and enforcers. Devils being the ultimate source of monetary policy in D&D would be giving life to the saying that "money is the root of all evil".
This is a fun topic. Depending on how magic heavy your setting is, the base startup cost for a bank might include wards to detect and/or dispel illusions and charm effects. Wards against teleportation and similar spells would be needed as well. Vaults protected by globes of invulnerability or even prismatic walls would be great selling points. While all of the enchanting is proceeding, you might as well put in a circle of truth to host business deals.
I haven't tried anything like this in one of my games yet. I supposed it would be best to start with a new world and show the players how the banks are used by other adventurers to store their wealth. Only after giving those clues would I have someone try to steal their gold.
So in the initial post, it talks about the tools to commit fraud. Wasn't that the case when we started using currency? Over time, tools to counter that fraud becoming more common making the fraud harder to commit. No system is foolproof and relies a lot on everyone buying into the system.