Y'all know you can just... make up whatever you want, right? That that's the entire point of the game? There's no such thing as "canon" beyond what you as a DM want to run with. Tolkien kept changing his legendarium up until his death. If you prefer an older version of the setting, use that. If you want to mix one version with another, do it. If you want to toss all of it out and make up your own stuff, that's great! That's what the game is all about!
Why on earth should any writer now feel beholden to "years of established lore"? It's not a video game or film series. The lack of imagination on display here is unsettling.
I like reading both versions then deciding which one I like best or even putting together elements from both. Synthesis (learned that word in a philosophy class lol).
Y'all know you can just... make up whatever you want, right? That that's the entire point of the game? There's no such thing as "canon" beyond what you as a DM want to run with. Tolkien kept changing his legendarium up until his death. If you prefer an older version of the setting, use that. If you want to mix one version with another, do it. If you want to toss all of it out and make up your own stuff, that's great! That's what the game is all about
This is essentially what I meant by lore being part of the campaign. Personally, I enjoy discovering what unique ideas and interpretation have been included as I play. The same is true of creatures. If everything were static, I could just read the rule books and be done.
Of course, but that doesn't mean we can't also care about what is in the official material. Lore matters to some people, It doesn't mean we lack imagination. We all know we can make it our own. Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about what the material says, how we feel about certain changes (especially when they suddenly change for no reason, like they did with MToF. It erases years of history that were a big part of the setting), etc. Can I ignore it? Absolutely. That doesn't mean I can't also have an opinion on it, or discuss the changes. This is a lore discussion, after all.
Of course, but that doesn't mean we can't also care about what is in the official material. Lore matters to some people, It doesn't mean we lack imagination. We all know we can do what we want. Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about what the material says, how we feel about certain changes, etc.
You’re missing the point. There is no lore beyond what you choose to use. The publishing of a new take on things doesn’t make any changes. The older material still exists. Imagination is the foundation of the game. If you feel as though some new book means you can’t play that way you’ve been playing or that it’s somehow less “real,” that is definitionally a failure of imagination.
What the authors of MToF or the original Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting or Greyhawk or whatever choose to write has no more impact on your game than you allow it to. Nothing is a change, nothing is a retcon, because that’s fundamentally not how the game works. Everything is an option, and I’m shocked to see anyone complain about having more of those.
Part of what always made FR feel alive to me was the history and continuity of the lore. So when the team changes that for no good reason, it ruins part of what made that realm feel special to me. The homebrew worlds I play in, don't have that...my DM is running his dark elves there as being exiles of all elven subraces after an elven civil war, rather than the obsidian subterranean drow. That's cool.
To take established lore about established realms and just play fast and loose with it however is quite uncool.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Part of what always made FR feel alive to me was the history and continuity of the lore. So when the team changes that for no good reason, it ruins part of what made that realm feel special to me. The homebrew worlds I play in, don't have that...my DM is running his dark elves there as being exiles of all elven subraces after an elven civil war, rather than the obsidian subterranean drow. That's cool.
To take established lore about established realms and just play fast and loose with it however is quite uncool.
Again, the team haven’t changed anything. No one’s taken away your old books.
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
That’s not a change. It’s a new idea. “Someone had a new idea” is the only reason anyone ever needs to write something down. Who are you to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn’t do with their own idea of a setting, that doesn’t affect you in any way? Are you going to butt into my game next to tell me you’re personally injured by the stupid way I handle elves?
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
5e is the first edition I've ever played, so the lore is lore to me. If you think the changes are ridiculous, that's your opinion, and don't use them, but do use them, and I like them. WotC is allowed to do whatever they want with their own property.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
This was a lore discussion about fey and eladrin afterlives. The OP asked about it, and to me, that seems like they are looking for answers that were in the printed material(s). MToF was brought up, and so I pointed out how what is in MToF is quite different from what had previously been established, and was fairly consistent, give or take, until recently. It got rid of some setting-unique history (the only thing it kept was the genderfluidty of the Seldarine, the relationship between Corellon and Sehanine, and the elves being born of Corellon's blood). Of course those of us who don't like it are free to ignore it (I do), but that doesn't mean we can't talk about its changes--especially when it differs so much from previous material--and the opinions we have on it (in my conversations with other Realms fans, I know I'm not the only only miffed by it). I'll concede that some of MToF was rather poetic, and there were a few tidbits here and there I liked, but overall...And as someone else said, it make Corellon even more of a prick (and I say this as a Corellon fan).
People are fans of different settings, and the reasons for that can vary (and you can of course love multiple settings). This means you can become invested in a setting, which means you are going to be upset or excited about any changes (especially when there is no plausible reason for the change, and it just seems thrown in willy-nilly) are made. This isn't to say the setting(s) can't move forward (I wouldn't want static, either), and "canon" may only go as far as the DM wants it to, but that doesn't change the fact that settings like Forgotten Realms (for fans anyway) feel very alive, they have a history, so a random change, like what was done in MToF, with no in-lore explanation (in other words, there was no event or explanation for the change. It was just suddenly there)--can be frustrating, whether one chooses to ignore it or not. Of course it's there for me and anyone else to make my own, but it's still an established setting, which means there is a certain "backbone" to it, if you will, that flavors it and distinguishes it, just like with any setting. Eberron is different from FR is different from Dark Sun, etc. They all have their own lore, "canon", and flavor. There is a reason people talk about different settings and the "lore" for each one. So yes, when years of that lore is suddenly, for no real reason, changed, it can be frustrating, as it erases that history. I'll ignore it, but, as it shapes the official material (and thus the lore of the setting, however much the DM chooses to utilize it), it can affect me as a fan of the setting, even though I am free to shape my home world as I want, adhering to the setting or diverging from it as I see fit. I enjoy making up my own worlds and lore (I do so for RPs frequently. I do actually use my imagination daily), but I also enjoy Forgotten Realms and all that's in it.
Anyway, that is how I feel, and why myself and others do take issue with MToF. This doesn't mean you can't use if if you like it. I am just pointing out that it made some significant changes to what was there previously.
Back to the topic at hand, for fey (archfey, or other feylike creatures), they likely either go to Arvandor or another nature-plane (in FR, places like House of Nature, for example). Eladrin of the Feywild/Faerie are already closer to Arvandor, so it makes sense they would go there when they die. For celestial eladrin...it is unclear. It was mentioned that they just...die, which kind of sucks, but that is my understanding too, as this seems to be the case with most celestial beings. I've never really been able to get a clear answer. Demons and devils typically are reborn (albeit in a lower form), but the same doesn't seem to hold true for celestials. Maybe their "essence" is absorbed into the plane (but that still means they die).
Y'all know you can just... make up whatever you want, right? That that's the entire point of the game? There's no such thing as "canon" beyond what you as a DM want to run with. Tolkien kept changing his legendarium up until his death. If you prefer an older version of the setting, use that. If you want to mix one version with another, do it. If you want to toss all of it out and make up your own stuff, that's great! That's what the game is all about
This is essentially what I meant by lore being part of the campaign. Personally, I enjoy discovering what unique ideas and interpretation have been included as I play. The same is true of creatures. If everything were static, I could just read the rule books and be done.
Part of what always made FR feel alive to me was the history and continuity of the lore. So when the team changes that for no good reason, it ruins part of what made that realm feel special to me. The homebrew worlds I play in, don't have that...my DM is running his dark elves there as being exiles of all elven subraces after an elven civil war, rather than the obsidian subterranean drow. That's cool.
To take established lore about established realms and just play fast and loose with it however is quite uncool.
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
5e is the first edition I've ever played, so the lore is lore to me. If you think the changes are ridiculous, that's your opinion, and don't use them, but do use them, and I like them. WotC is allowed to do whatever they want with their own property.
Like I said, I haven’t read MToF, but overall I agree with your last sentence.
Sorry lol. I’ve been away and I wanted to respond to a bunch of people’s posts.
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
That’s not a change. It’s a new idea. “Someone had a new idea” is the only reason anyone ever needs to write something down. Who are you to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn’t do with their own idea of a setting, that doesn’t affect you in any way? Are you going to butt into my game next to tell me you’re personally injured by the stupid way I handle elves?
If you'd like me to, sure. Good Smeagol always helps.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Part of what always made FR feel alive to me was the history and continuity of the lore. So when the team changes that for no good reason, it ruins part of what made that realm feel special to me. The homebrew worlds I play in, don't have that...my DM is running his dark elves there as being exiles of all elven subraces after an elven civil war, rather than the obsidian subterranean drow. That's cool.
To take established lore about established realms and just play fast and loose with it however is quite uncool.
Your homebrew world is like Dragonlance that way.
That was actually the inspiration for them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
5e is the first edition I've ever played, so the lore is lore to me. If you think the changes are ridiculous, that's your opinion, and don't use them, but do use them, and I like them. WotC is allowed to do whatever they want with their own property.
You didn't have something be a certain way for 30 years then have those fools change it...for no reason what so ever. If the new lore is so great, give it to one of these new races that they keep pumping out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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I like reading both versions then deciding which one I like best or even putting together elements from both. Synthesis (learned that word in a philosophy class lol).
This is essentially what I meant by lore being part of the campaign. Personally, I enjoy discovering what unique ideas and interpretation have been included as I play.
The same is true of creatures. If everything were static, I could just read the rule books and be done.
Of course, but that doesn't mean we can't also care about what is in the official material. Lore matters to some people, It doesn't mean we lack imagination. We all know we can make it our own. Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about what the material says, how we feel about certain changes (especially when they suddenly change for no reason, like they did with MToF. It erases years of history that were a big part of the setting), etc. Can I ignore it? Absolutely. That doesn't mean I can't also have an opinion on it, or discuss the changes. This is a lore discussion, after all.
You’re missing the point. There is no lore beyond what you choose to use. The publishing of a new take on things doesn’t make any changes. The older material still exists. Imagination is the foundation of the game. If you feel as though some new book means you can’t play that way you’ve been playing or that it’s somehow less “real,” that is definitionally a failure of imagination.
What the authors of MToF or the original Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting or Greyhawk or whatever choose to write has no more impact on your game than you allow it to. Nothing is a change, nothing is a retcon, because that’s fundamentally not how the game works. Everything is an option, and I’m shocked to see anyone complain about having more of those.
Part of what always made FR feel alive to me was the history and continuity of the lore. So when the team changes that for no good reason, it ruins part of what made that realm feel special to me. The homebrew worlds I play in, don't have that...my DM is running his dark elves there as being exiles of all elven subraces after an elven civil war, rather than the obsidian subterranean drow. That's cool.
To take established lore about established realms and just play fast and loose with it however is quite uncool.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Again, the team haven’t changed anything. No one’s taken away your old books.
Again, they have changed things that directly contradict what's in my old books and that's annoying. Sure, I can flat out ignore their stupidity which I do...I am saying I shouldn't have to because there was no need to make some of these ridiculous changes.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That’s not a change. It’s a new idea. “Someone had a new idea” is the only reason anyone ever needs to write something down. Who are you to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn’t do with their own idea of a setting, that doesn’t affect you in any way? Are you going to butt into my game next to tell me you’re personally injured by the stupid way I handle elves?
5e is the first edition I've ever played, so the lore is lore to me. If you think the changes are ridiculous, that's your opinion, and don't use them, but do use them, and I like them. WotC is allowed to do whatever they want with their own property.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This was a lore discussion about fey and eladrin afterlives. The OP asked about it, and to me, that seems like they are looking for answers that were in the printed material(s). MToF was brought up, and so I pointed out how what is in MToF is quite different from what had previously been established, and was fairly consistent, give or take, until recently. It got rid of some setting-unique history (the only thing it kept was the genderfluidty of the Seldarine, the relationship between Corellon and Sehanine, and the elves being born of Corellon's blood). Of course those of us who don't like it are free to ignore it (I do), but that doesn't mean we can't talk about its changes--especially when it differs so much from previous material--and the opinions we have on it (in my conversations with other Realms fans, I know I'm not the only only miffed by it). I'll concede that some of MToF was rather poetic, and there were a few tidbits here and there I liked, but overall...And as someone else said, it make Corellon even more of a prick (and I say this as a Corellon fan).
People are fans of different settings, and the reasons for that can vary (and you can of course love multiple settings). This means you can become invested in a setting, which means you are going to be upset or excited about any changes (especially when there is no plausible reason for the change, and it just seems thrown in willy-nilly) are made. This isn't to say the setting(s) can't move forward (I wouldn't want static, either), and "canon" may only go as far as the DM wants it to, but that doesn't change the fact that settings like Forgotten Realms (for fans anyway) feel very alive, they have a history, so a random change, like what was done in MToF, with no in-lore explanation (in other words, there was no event or explanation for the change. It was just suddenly there)--can be frustrating, whether one chooses to ignore it or not. Of course it's there for me and anyone else to make my own, but it's still an established setting, which means there is a certain "backbone" to it, if you will, that flavors it and distinguishes it, just like with any setting. Eberron is different from FR is different from Dark Sun, etc. They all have their own lore, "canon", and flavor. There is a reason people talk about different settings and the "lore" for each one. So yes, when years of that lore is suddenly, for no real reason, changed, it can be frustrating, as it erases that history. I'll ignore it, but, as it shapes the official material (and thus the lore of the setting, however much the DM chooses to utilize it), it can affect me as a fan of the setting, even though I am free to shape my home world as I want, adhering to the setting or diverging from it as I see fit. I enjoy making up my own worlds and lore (I do so for RPs frequently. I do actually use my imagination daily), but I also enjoy Forgotten Realms and all that's in it.
Anyway, that is how I feel, and why myself and others do take issue with MToF. This doesn't mean you can't use if if you like it. I am just pointing out that it made some significant changes to what was there previously.
Back to the topic at hand, for fey (archfey, or other feylike creatures), they likely either go to Arvandor or another nature-plane (in FR, places like House of Nature, for example). Eladrin of the Feywild/Faerie are already closer to Arvandor, so it makes sense they would go there when they die. For celestial eladrin...it is unclear. It was mentioned that they just...die, which kind of sucks, but that is my understanding too, as this seems to be the case with most celestial beings. I've never really been able to get a clear answer. Demons and devils typically are reborn (albeit in a lower form), but the same doesn't seem to hold true for celestials. Maybe their "essence" is absorbed into the plane (but that still means they die).
Totally agree!
Your homebrew world is like Dragonlance that way.
Like I said, I haven’t read MToF, but overall I agree with your last sentence.
Sorry lol. I’ve been away and I wanted to respond to a bunch of people’s posts.
If you'd like me to, sure. Good Smeagol always helps.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That was actually the inspiration for them.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
You didn't have something be a certain way for 30 years then have those fools change it...for no reason what so ever. If the new lore is so great, give it to one of these new races that they keep pumping out.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha