Personally, I envision these realities based off of the Cloak Master cycle books, and some of my own imagination and understanding.
There are worlds based off our reality. Space separates these crystal spheres which could hold multiple worlds. That is 3-dimensional, and for me explains each setting, and all organic life. The Prime Material Plane. The crystal spheres are separated by Phlogiston which you have to traverse in order to get to the edge of the next crystal sphere, which I just call realms based on the setting of the campaign.
The Astral Plane is an identical plane that sits on top of the Prime Material Plane. It looks exactly like the Prime Material, however most of the objects and inhabitants are not there. It is a place that exists and you can move through it in different ways. Depending on your edition sometimes you can travel into the Astral using spelljammer from wildspace. There was a World Tree Cosmology, a Great Wheel Cosmology, a World Axis cosmology. Personally, I pick one cosmology and run with it, and the adventures I have been on did the same. The only thing that is required from a GM, is just be consistent and the easiest way is to just pick a cosmology that makes sense to you, and make up your own story and rules. AD&D in my opinion requires a ton of Fill-In-Your-Story, the lore they create is just a fantastic guidelines you can use to tell your own story.
Planes of existence are on a forth dimension. And can only be crossed using portals from your geographical spot to their geographical spot which have no association with each other, except the door used to cross over. Now life can change how you move between these planes as well. If you are alive you remain on the physical plane. Once you die your energy/soul will pass on to the plane associated with your life decisions. Evil souls become soul larvae which are coveted by Night Hags that take them to market in the lower planes. But you can also use magic and portals to cross over.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
That works fine for 2e spelljammer. The problem is we now have 5e spelljammer and it eliminated crystal spheres and instituted Wildspace instead, then eliminated the phlogiston and substituted the astral sea. I’m happy to play either way but the new version better represents my memory of possible astral projection trips I experienced in my late teens and early 20s. ( were they real? You ask. — no way to prove one way or the other but they seemed real to me at the time so ???)
That works fine for 2e spelljammer. The problem is we now have 5e spelljammer and it eliminated crystal spheres and instituted Wildspace instead, then eliminated the phlogiston and substituted the astral sea. I’m happy to play either way but the new version better represents my memory of possible astral projection trips I experienced in my late teens and early 20s. ( were they real? You ask. — no way to prove one way or the other but they seemed real to me at the time so ???)
I can fully appreciate that! The point of the game is truly to have fun, and enjoy a good story with friends. I would play in either version with a group, but I still do have my preferences.
If you don't mind me saying, maybe if you borrow elements that make the most sense to you from AD&D 2E and 5E and build your world around that maybe you will get the experience you are looking for. There is absolutely no wrong way to do. I hope you are successful at making some great memories!!!
Edit: I forgot to mention. Incorporate your own experiences of Astral Travel into your rules and story. I would bet that would really enhance the experience with some realism. Yes, I do believe.
If I have an objection, it's that they don't really address what the new interpretation means for the Material Plane. According to the PHB, there is only one. "All the worlds of D&D exist within the Material Plane," it says. And the Spelljammer material says "every world of the Material Plane is situated in... its own Wildspace system."
But if you can't leave a solar system without automatically entering the Astral Sea at some poorly defined point, is the Material Plane really still singular? If so, what exists beyond Wildspace in the Material Plane?
It's a miniscule concern, and easily fixed by making opening portals to the Astral Plane a function of the spelljamming helm (what Wizards should have done in the first place, IMHO), but it still bugs me. It's a sloppy, unnecessary design gap.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
My experiences as a youth sort of address this - the material and astral overlap at all points but which is “ dominant” changes at the wildspace boundary. To some extent this is rather like some things in modern physics where matter is a specialized form of energy (E=mc2) that interacts at a slower pace while pure energy acts as if it is everywhere at the same time and thought appears to be an interaction of energy more than matter. So astral projection is that “stepping out” of the energy persona from the physical to the nearly pure energy hence the “movement at the speed of thought” . So yes the magic of the spelljamming helm would translate the “ship bubble” from the prime to the astral at the point where they two planes overlap at equal intensities. Without the helm you can’t transfer and you have to continue in the prime at horribly slow speeds ( think the voyager spacecraft and their thousands of years journey to the distances of the nearest stars). With the helm your bubble is able to move vial the astral at far higher speeds.
My expectation for 5e Spelljammer was space travel and multiverse travel. What Wizards Of The Coast gave us is spelljamers travel through Material Plane space and the Astral Plane.
I suppose some considered it such yourself included. I never did just as dnd’s version of space travel. Some worlds were harder to get to than others but I never saw them as being in totally separate universes. To each their own interpretation I guess.
If you want space travel try Travellor, I don’t know of any real multiverse game.
Before 5e, Spelljammer was the multiverse setting for D&D.
It took me and 2 friends in Middle School approximately 5 days to adapt the rules back in 1991 to come up with a great adventure not long after we discovered Spelljammer. The rules were cumbersome and some just didn't work well so we adapted them with several test sessions. Using what we had we visited Ravenloft (We made the Demiplane of Dread into a Crystal Sphere) , Dark Sun (brand New then, Athasspace), and Krynnspace in that adventure. There were some nice ship battles. (Probably not as cool as the 5E ones the rules show us.) We had near misses in the Phlogiston, and this was loaded with a lot of Neogi slave traders in that game, though the Boss was a mindflayer. I see some rules that are somewhat usable in 5e, but I notice there is a lot of missing information and lore in the new system. The fact that you can be completely careless with fire now traversing the crystal spheres really takes away a lot of the strategy and danger. But I am excited to eventually do a campaign in the future using some 5E rules. I agree, it feels now like astral travel more than the old exciting space travel.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
If the ettra for the Spelljammer Helm said something like, "The new model of Spelljammer Helm is able to planes-shift between the Material Plane and the Astral Plane where the barrier between the two is thin. There is area that rings around solar systems called The Material/Astral Resonance Zone where the barrier between the Material Plane and the Astral Plane is thin.", this would be so much better because it respects the old lore.
The more I know about the lore of D&D, the less sense the wording of the spell Dream Of The Blue Veil makes.
The "lore" of 5e Spelljammer makes it so the spell Dream Of The Blue Veil cannot send you worlds outside the realmspace system you are currently in, because as far as I can tell the spell Dream Of The Blue Veil does not send you to places that require inter-planer travel to get to.
Personally, I envision these realities based off of the Cloak Master cycle books, and some of my own imagination and understanding.
There are worlds based off our reality. Space separates these crystal spheres which could hold multiple worlds. That is 3-dimensional, and for me explains each setting, and all organic life. The Prime Material Plane. The crystal spheres are separated by Phlogiston which you have to traverse in order to get to the edge of the next crystal sphere, which I just call realms based on the setting of the campaign.
The Astral Plane is an identical plane that sits on top of the Prime Material Plane. It looks exactly like the Prime Material, however most of the objects and inhabitants are not there. It is a place that exists and you can move through it in different ways. Depending on your edition sometimes you can travel into the Astral using spelljammer from wildspace. There was a World Tree Cosmology, a Great Wheel Cosmology, a World Axis cosmology. Personally, I pick one cosmology and run with it, and the adventures I have been on did the same. The only thing that is required from a GM, is just be consistent and the easiest way is to just pick a cosmology that makes sense to you, and make up your own story and rules. AD&D in my opinion requires a ton of Fill-In-Your-Story, the lore they create is just a fantastic guidelines you can use to tell your own story.
Planes of existence are on a forth dimension. And can only be crossed using portals from your geographical spot to their geographical spot which have no association with each other, except the door used to cross over. Now life can change how you move between these planes as well. If you are alive you remain on the physical plane. Once you die your energy/soul will pass on to the plane associated with your life decisions. Evil souls become soul larvae which are coveted by Night Hags that take them to market in the lower planes. But you can also use magic and portals to cross over.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
That works fine for 2e spelljammer. The problem is we now have 5e spelljammer and it eliminated crystal spheres and instituted Wildspace instead, then eliminated the phlogiston and substituted the astral sea. I’m happy to play either way but the new version better represents my memory of possible astral projection trips I experienced in my late teens and early 20s. ( were they real? You ask. — no way to prove one way or the other but they seemed real to me at the time so ???)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I can fully appreciate that! The point of the game is truly to have fun, and enjoy a good story with friends. I would play in either version with a group, but I still do have my preferences.
If you don't mind me saying, maybe if you borrow elements that make the most sense to you from AD&D 2E and 5E and build your world around that maybe you will get the experience you are looking for. There is absolutely no wrong way to do. I hope you are successful at making some great memories!!!
Edit: I forgot to mention. Incorporate your own experiences of Astral Travel into your rules and story. I would bet that would really enhance the experience with some realism. Yes, I do believe.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
5e is close enough that I don’t really see the need for anything else.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It's pretty good. Threadbare, though.
If I have an objection, it's that they don't really address what the new interpretation means for the Material Plane. According to the PHB, there is only one. "All the worlds of D&D exist within the Material Plane," it says. And the Spelljammer material says "every world of the Material Plane is situated in... its own Wildspace system."
But if you can't leave a solar system without automatically entering the Astral Sea at some poorly defined point, is the Material Plane really still singular? If so, what exists beyond Wildspace in the Material Plane?
It's a miniscule concern, and easily fixed by making opening portals to the Astral Plane a function of the spelljamming helm (what Wizards should have done in the first place, IMHO), but it still bugs me. It's a sloppy, unnecessary design gap.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
My experiences as a youth sort of address this - the material and astral overlap at all points but which is “ dominant” changes at the wildspace boundary. To some extent this is rather like some things in modern physics where matter is a specialized form of energy (E=mc2) that interacts at a slower pace while pure energy acts as if it is everywhere at the same time and thought appears to be an interaction of energy more than matter. So astral projection is that “stepping out” of the energy persona from the physical to the nearly pure energy hence the “movement at the speed of thought” . So yes the magic of the spelljamming helm would translate the “ship bubble” from the prime to the astral at the point where they two planes overlap at equal intensities. Without the helm you can’t transfer and you have to continue in the prime at horribly slow speeds ( think the voyager spacecraft and their thousands of years journey to the distances of the nearest stars). With the helm your bubble is able to move vial the astral at far higher speeds.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
My expectation for 5e Spelljammer was space travel and multiverse travel.
What Wizards Of The Coast gave us is spelljamers travel through Material Plane space and the Astral Plane.
If you want space travel try Travellor, I don’t know of any real multiverse game.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Before 5e, Spelljammer was the multiverse setting for D&D.
I suppose some considered it such yourself included. I never did just as dnd’s version of space travel. Some worlds were harder to get to than others but I never saw them as being in totally separate universes. To each their own interpretation I guess.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It took me and 2 friends in Middle School approximately 5 days to adapt the rules back in 1991 to come up with a great adventure not long after we discovered Spelljammer. The rules were cumbersome and some just didn't work well so we adapted them with several test sessions. Using what we had we visited Ravenloft (We made the Demiplane of Dread into a Crystal Sphere) , Dark Sun (brand New then, Athasspace), and Krynnspace in that adventure. There were some nice ship battles. (Probably not as cool as the 5E ones the rules show us.) We had near misses in the Phlogiston, and this was loaded with a lot of Neogi slave traders in that game, though the Boss was a mindflayer. I see some rules that are somewhat usable in 5e, but I notice there is a lot of missing information and lore in the new system. The fact that you can be completely careless with fire now traversing the crystal spheres really takes away a lot of the strategy and danger. But I am excited to eventually do a campaign in the future using some 5E rules. I agree, it feels now like astral travel more than the old exciting space travel.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
If the ettra for the Spelljammer Helm said something like, "The new model of Spelljammer Helm is able to planes-shift between the Material Plane and the Astral Plane where the barrier between the two is thin. There is area that rings around solar systems called The Material/Astral Resonance Zone where the barrier between the Material Plane and the Astral Plane is thin.", this would be so much better because it respects the old lore.
They changed a lot and threw out practically everything. They scrapped crystal spheres and the phlogiston.
You can use dream of the blue veil.
The more I know about the lore of D&D, the less sense the wording of the spell Dream Of The Blue Veil makes.
The "lore" of 5e Spelljammer makes it so the spell Dream Of The Blue Veil cannot send you worlds outside the realmspace system you are currently in, because as far as I can tell the spell Dream Of The Blue Veil does not send you to places that require inter-planer travel to get to.