Warning: All opinion. You will find no facts in this reply.
Firstly in agreement with much that's been stated: It's all about the group with whom you're playing.
I find it interesting that the easiest and hardest Evil to RP is Chaotic Evil.
"Loves chaos and carnage but doesn't get in the way of the party objectives" is easy to do if the party is the kind of group who doesn't think things through. It's difficult if the party considers each action carefully to reduce suffering and splash damage. Parties that always talk their way through encounters are more difficult for CE people unless the parties are the rare kind who use such talky encounters to weaken/scam the opponents. Yet, murderminded parties offer no contrast to the CE personality - which ends up making a cool alignment just another in a crowd. A good middle-grounded, mixed party can let a CE shine without hogging the spotlight or feeling lost in the crowd.
As for NE: NE is often one who doesn't really care one way or another about anyone else. Apathy, to me, is boring (while Apathy is the crux that enables Evil acts in most cases).
To add my 2c for LE: Manipulation is just not my strong suit. People who can play emotional and legal chess with the characters in the party are good for LE RP. The problem is when the players start to feel they've been manipulated. Instead of leaning into it, I find that we'll start to lean away from the LE character - losing the necessary trust to be a cohesive unit.
Final disclaimer: Opinions based on experience and observations. Not facts.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Warning: All opinion. You will find no facts in this reply.
Firstly in agreement with much that's been stated: It's all about the group with whom you're playing.
I find it interesting that the easiest and hardest Evil to RP is Chaotic Evil.
"Loves chaos and carnage but doesn't get in the way of the party objectives" is easy to do if the party is the kind of group who doesn't think things through. It's difficult if the party considers each action carefully to reduce suffering and splash damage. Parties that always talk their way through encounters are more difficult for CE people unless the parties are the rare kind who use such talky encounters to weaken/scam the opponents. Yet, murderminded parties offer no contrast to the CE personality - which ends up making a cool alignment just another in a crowd. A good middle-grounded, mixed party can let a CE shine without hogging the spotlight or feeling lost in the crowd.
As for NE: NE is often one who doesn't really care one way or another about anyone else. Apathy, to me, is boring (while Apathy is the crux that enables Evil acts in most cases).
To add my 2c for LE: Manipulation is just not my strong suit. People who can play emotional and legal chess with the characters in the party are good for LE RP. The problem is when the players start to feel they've been manipulated. Instead of leaning into it, I find that we'll start to lean away from the LE character - losing the necessary trust to be a cohesive unit.
Final disclaimer: Opinions based on experience and observations. Not facts.
I tend to find Neutral Evil isn't apathetic, but just tries to get away with what they can - with no feelings for the consequences on others.
In my opinion, I find NE and LE the easier to play. CE is hard for me personally to find synergy with the party, but that's probably just me. As a DM, I tend to not allow CE in the party because it can turn into a PvP brawl after the CE character backstabs or throws the good characters under the bus just for the fun of it. I main githyanki as a race and I find a nice balance of NE, LE, and LN. The trick is kind to be a jerk, but be the funny lovable jerk that everyone picks on (think zuko from AtlA, bakugo from bnha, etc). I find tv tropes is a great website to pull your character's moral values from. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice
Lawful Evil lets you kinda avoid the "I won't work with good characters who do good deeds" thing. Lawful Evil doesn't require conniving or keen intellect, you just need a code that you follow, ie the Gith follow their moral code that the strong dominate the weak and that the conquest of other humanoids is justified as natural intention. If your LE character respects honor and strength, it will be easier to establish party connections.
For Neutral Evil, I recommend playing like chaotic neutral in a sense. Self serving but with a tendency towards cruelty. Too much of NE can usually end up as CE though.
In my opinion, I find NE and LE the easier to play. CE is hard for me personally to find synergy with the party, but that's probably just me. As a DM, I tend to not allow CE in the party because it can turn into a PvP brawl after the CE character backstabs or throws the good characters under the bus just for the fun of it. I main githyanki as a race and I find a nice balance of NE, LE, and LN. The trick is kind to be a jerk, but be the funny lovable jerk that everyone picks on (think zuko from AtlA, bakugo from bnha, etc). I find tv tropes is a great website to pull your character's moral values from. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice
Lawful Evil lets you kinda avoid the "I won't work with good characters who do good deeds" thing. Lawful Evil doesn't require conniving or keen intellect, you just need a code that you follow, ie the Gith follow their moral code that the strong dominate the weak and that the conquest of other humanoids is justified as natural intention. If your LE character respects honor and strength, it will be easier to establish party connections.
For Neutral Evil, I recommend playing like chaotic neutral in a sense. Self serving but with a tendency towards cruelty. Too much of NE can usually end up as CE though.
I really enjoy playing evil characters, and I play them a lot. An important thing to remember is that just because they're evil doesn't mean they have no redeeming features. Not all evil characters are sociopaths who only have "friends" because it benefits them. Evil characters have loved ones, too. Evil characters can fit into society perfectly well. They don't have to be scheming backstabbers who will betray their allies as soon as they get the chance. They only have to put their own **or a group's** welfare/agendas above those of everyone else.
Another common misconception is that all CE characters are murderhobos. This isn't true. Most people in real life don't get away with murder or genocide because they're really powerful (even if they are). They get away with it because they're clever enough or charismatic enough to distort the truth. Building on to this, a common archetype for villains/evil characters is that they want something that is arguably beneficial to society (world peace, no poverty, etc.) but that the way they bring about this goal is through mass murder or other methods of questionable morality. The ends justify the means. However, for some reason, almost every example of this archetype is LE. That doesn't have to be true. A character can be purely, utterly despicable, with no moral code whatsoever, and still have a selfless goal (or so they say).
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
In my opinion, I find NE and LE the easier to play. CE is hard for me personally to find synergy with the party, but that's probably just me. As a DM, I tend to not allow CE in the party because it can turn into a PvP brawl after the CE character backstabs or throws the good characters under the bus just for the fun of it. I main githyanki as a race and I find a nice balance of NE, LE, and LN. The trick is kind to be a jerk, but be the funny lovable jerk that everyone picks on (think zuko from AtlA, bakugo from bnha, etc). I find tv tropes is a great website to pull your character's moral values from. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice
Lawful Evil lets you kinda avoid the "I won't work with good characters who do good deeds" thing. Lawful Evil doesn't require conniving or keen intellect, you just need a code that you follow, ie the Gith follow their moral code that the strong dominate the weak and that the conquest of other humanoids is justified as natural intention. If your LE character respects honor and strength, it will be easier to establish party connections.
For Neutral Evil, I recommend playing like chaotic neutral in a sense. Self serving but with a tendency towards cruelty. Too much of NE can usually end up as CE though.
I really enjoy playing evil characters, and I play them a lot. An important thing to remember is that just because they're evil doesn't mean they have no redeeming features. Not all evil characters are sociopaths who only have "friends" because it benefits them. Evil characters have loved ones, too. Evil characters can fit into society perfectly well. They don't have to be scheming backstabbers who will betray their allies as soon as they get the chance. They only have to put their own **or a group's** welfare/agendas above those of everyone else.
Yep. I always DM, so I have never really played an evil PC, but when I DM, my villains are more complex than "I evil so me kill everything and everyone."
Often, an evil character will see themselves as having good intentions and it's only to others that they appear ot have an evil alignment. This is often the case with sociopaths and extremists, who take their ideals too far. A good idea when creating such a character is to really get under their skin and see why they believe their motivations are pure.
A fair amount of the characters i create tend to default to evil. i just started playing true dnd and i had to check with my DM first to make sure it was ok, but he is letting me play Lawful Evil as my first character and so far the group has had no problems with her. Actually, she is probably the most trusted person in the group right now.
I think the main issue people tend to have with evil alignments is that people assume that evil instantly equals murder/ backstabbing in the same way people sometimes assume chaotic = steal everything. so just don't fall into that trap and you should be ok. there are so many more degrees of evil than just that and no one is all evil all the time. they are often selfish or willing to go farther to get what they want vrs the rest of the party, but that does not mean they must back stab everyone they meet. Maybe they are only concerned with money and if you cant pay for their help, then they wont save you and that is how they are evil. (oh dear, this sinking ship only has so many life boats. i am now selling seats to the highest bidder) Or maybe they are trying to bring back a lost love and will strike any dark bargain necessary to do bring them back. Likely their level of selfishness could even benefit the party over time. Sure, your character may not care if those orphans over there are on fire, but once they become attached to the party they may be willing to do anything to protect them- including things the rest of the party would never consider.
Like right now, i am playing an oblex assassin who is enslaved by a crime family. She has no respect for the dead, stole from a church in a recently destroyed town, is 100% cool with torturing people for information and just straight up ate a guy so she could use their bones. But she is also incredibly non-malicious when left to her own choices and tries not to kill if she has not been ordered to. she views secrets as sacred and can be trusted with anything the party tells her without fear of judgment. she is good at planning things, always remains calm and friendly towards others and is rather protective of the changeling paladin in the party despite knowing that the guy would absolutely kill her if he knew what she really was. and since she is LE she views her word as a binding contract- which can lead to things both good and bad. If she agreed to help someone she respects and that person is doing good things, then she must do good things. but if she accepts a contract from a quest giver who turns out to have a malicious ulterior motive- she wouldn't view that as a valid reason for backing out of her contract with them.
I also have a NE/CE character in the works. She is unapologetically evil. destroyed a whole city once when they killed her husband. She also tends to view even the people she cares about as "things" in her "collection." but she is very, very protective of her "things." to the point of willing to die for the people she cares about without a second thought. she also is not against doing good things and will be fairly willing to cooperate with the party, so long as she is either paid for it or she thinks the adventure will be entertaining. Her main problem is that she has lived too long and is incredibly bored, so if you can convince her doing good will be more fun- she will gladly do it. this also ties into the Chaotic part of her potently Chaotic Evil alignment. She wont go around killing random shopkeeps because that would make for a boring story- but she might send an unseen servant to go cut the buttons off of everyone's pants during a fancy party if the local lord offended her. And she might just touch that very-clearly trapped object just to see what will happen.
basically, if you can come up with a character who has layers to their personality and reasons for the things they do beyond "its evil and i'm evil guy," then you should be fine. maybe instead of viewing their evil alignment as "this is their starting point," view the alignment as a gangue of "how far they are willing to go."
you might struggle to gel well with some party comps if they distrust you- but take if from me when i say a lot of players/characters can fail to notice how messed up you are if your character still makes an effort to be kind and dependable to the party . (like, seriously. my character just recommended cutting of some kids fingers as punishment and offered to sell drugs for everyone- and the party was still surprised to find out she had a criminal background because she is so cheery and helpful.)
A fair amount of the characters i create tend to default to evil. i just started playing true dnd and i had to check with my DM first to make sure it was ok, but he is letting me play Lawful Evil as my first character and so far the group has had no problems with her. Actually, she is probably the most trusted person in the group right now.
I think the main issue people tend to have with evil alignments is that people assume that evil instantly equals murder/ backstabbing in the same way people sometimes assume chaotic = steal everything. so just don't fall into that trap and you should be ok. there are so many more degrees of evil than just that and no one is all evil all the time. they are often selfish or willing to go farther to get what they want vrs the rest of the party, but that does not mean they must back stab everyone they meet. Maybe they are only concerned with money and if you cant pay for their help, then they wont save you and that is how they are evil. (oh dear, this sinking ship only has so many life boats. i am now selling seats to the highest bidder) Or maybe they are trying to bring back a lost love and will strike any dark bargain necessary to do bring them back. Likely their level of selfishness could even benefit the party over time. Sure, your character may not care if those orphans over there are on fire, but once they become attached to the party they may be willing to do anything to protect them- including things the rest of the party would never consider.
Like right now, i am playing an oblex assassin who is enslaved by a crime family. She has no respect for the dead, stole from a church in a recently destroyed town, is 100% cool with torturing people for information and just straight up ate a guy so she could use their bones. But she is also incredibly non-malicious when left to her own choices and tries not to kill if she has not been ordered to. she views secrets as sacred and can be trusted with anything the party tells her without fear of judgment. she is good at planning things, always remains calm and friendly towards others and is rather protective of the changeling paladin in the party despite knowing that the guy would absolutely kill her if he knew what she really was. and since she is LE she views her word as a binding contract- which can lead to things both good and bad. If she agreed to help someone she respects and that person is doing good things, then she must do good things. but if she accepts a contract from a quest giver who turns out to have a malicious ulterior motive- she wouldn't view that as a valid reason for backing out of her contract with them.
I also have a NE/CE character in the works. She is unapologetically evil. destroyed a whole city once when they killed her husband. She also tends to view even the people she cares about as "things" in her "collection." but she is very, very protective of her "things." to the point of willing to die for the people she cares about without a second thought. she also is not against doing good things and will be fairly willing to cooperate with the party, so long as she is either paid for it or she thinks the adventure will be entertaining. Her main problem is that she has lived too long and is incredibly bored, so if you can convince her doing good will be more fun- she will gladly do it. this also ties into the Chaotic part of her potently Chaotic Evil alignment. She wont go around killing random shopkeeps because that would make for a boring story- but she might send an unseen servant to go cut the buttons off of everyone's pants during a fancy party if the local lord offended her. And she might just touch that very-clearly trapped object just to see what will happen.
basically, if you can come up with a character who has layers to their personality and reasons for the things they do beyond "its evil and i'm evil guy," then you should be fine. maybe instead of viewing their evil alignment as "this is their starting point," view the alignment as a gangue of "how far they are willing to go."
you might struggle to gel well with some party comps if they distrust you- but take if from me when i say a lot of players/characters can fail to notice how messed up you are if your character still makes an effort to be kind and dependable to the party . (like, seriously. my character just recommended cutting of some kids fingers as punishment and offered to sell drugs for everyone- and the party was still surprised to find out she had a criminal background because she is so cheery and helpful.)
I really like your response! Your character also sounds pretty interesting.
To add on to what you said, almost no one thinks of themselves as evil. Most people who others might think are "evil" in real life aren't CE murderhobos that kill everyone who looks at them funny. Most "evil" people fall into two categories: selfish and pragmatic.
Selfish people do what's best for them or an exclusive group of people. They only think about the needs of themselves or others in that group, and all others are inferior (possibly to the point of not even treating them as sentient beings). Selfish people act in a manner that is beneficial to them, often without regards to consequences suffered by others. Selfish people don't usually hurt other people intentionally (unless they're discriminatory selfish, more on that later). Instead, they simply don't care. Other people aren't important to them, and if they die, well, that's on them. Selfishness comes in different types, from merely being vain, to putting yourself above everyone else, to discrimination against those who are not included in your "superior" group.
Vanity is a common trope for villains, especially in Disney movies or works aimed at younger audiences. Take the Evil Queen from Snow White. Why does she want to kill Snow? It's not because she hates all other people, or because Snow is in her way. It's because Snow White has committed the heinous crime of being better than her. Of course, many people are vain and the Evil Queen is an extreme example, but she does a good job of portraying vanity in a villainous way.
The most common type of selfishness (or at least the best known) is putting your own needs above those of the world. Characters with this type of selfishness will act in a way that benefits them most, and a good way to have one of these characters join an adventuring party is to have it be the most beneficial option for them. Plain and simple. Mundungus Fletcher from Harry Potter is a good example of this kind of selfishness. He's not actively trying to be a bad person, Mundungus just does what's good for Mundungus.
The final type is the most one that's most obviously considered evil. It is, in short, extreme nationality. These kinds of characters put those in their group above everyone else. They're superior to those outside of it, and might even consider others to be non-sentient at this trope's most extreme. While I can't think of a movie or book example off the top of my head, the drow represent this trope rather well, considering other humanoids to be nothing more than slaves.
The second main real life type of "evil" is pragmatism (note, I'm talking about a specific trope, not pragmatists in general). These are well-intentioned people, but for them, the ends justify the means. To them, it doesn't matter if a hundred thousand people die, as long as it makes the world better (in their opinion). This type of character is especially scary because they are trying to do the right thing, but they'll do anything to achieve it. However, they're often able to be reasoned with, and might work alongside a good character, even if they think they're "soft."
There are at least two other types, lunatics (whether from grief or insanity) and sociopaths, but I think that they're pretty well explained with a quick Google search.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Someone mentioned how wrecking a vehicle in Avernus was going to lose their deposit.
I mentioned that none of them must be Lawful Good characters because Lawful Good characters would find creative ways to righteously justify stealing the vehicles without changing their alignments.
Also...
"Good? Evil? It's all about reputation. I want stuff without paying for it. That's supposedly evil, but if they think I'm good, they're more inclined to just let me have it."
My advice: Forget alignment. They're restrictive. Just do what you think your character would do - no fitting into boxes or categories - just let it flow. Let the DM decide how your actions affect things. Just leave that spot blank on your character sheets.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I just picked back to into playing after many years away from gaming (thank you Covid). Back in the 80's when I started playing, evil PC's almost invariably led to PvP. I as many fell into this trap.
Our current game has a table rule that PvP combat is not allowed. I'm playing the only evil PC in a group that is generally LN\CG. Our group is not as virtuous as the rest of the world sees us. My PC is a very classic Faustian blastlock with an imp familiar (LE). He is self serving and his larger goals are to gain a keep and elevate from a noble to a Lord Baron. In game, he has tried to manipulate situations to further these goals.
We are lucky to have a rich campaign world, and one thing that is evident is that many of the main NPC's are also "not good". They have their motivations they care about more than us. So my PC fits perfect into this type of world. But I justify why the group's goals are also my character's goals. Playing an evil PC takes some work to not devolve into "you only win when your other plyers don't". Its far more fun to make the team goals matter to your character too. I've manipulated to get the treasure share I've wanted; but at the end of the adventure the spoils are still an equal division.
I ask a player who wants to play an evil alignment; what is your character's motivation to work within a team dynamic? Why join a group? Why would a group want you to adventure with them? For my PC, the world is dangerous and without allies there is no way he is going to gain what he desires. And his group sees him as a useful part of the team, and not someone who they have to worry may turn on them at a moment. Don't make your character so narrow that they only care about themselves, and not even the consequences of their actions.
Contrary to what others are saying, it can be done. I play mainly evil characters. A lot of people try and fail because they think "evil" = *******, which isn't necessarily the case. You can play evil without making the character a complete dick/*****. I've done mainly PbP RPGs and I find a lot of "evil" characters tend to fall flat or tend to fit into a trope/stereotype, which is a huge no.
An example of an evil character I've done is a few years back, I played on a PbP RPG forum. My character became one of the major PC villains in one of the villages. Not because he was an awful person, but because he was brainwashed by the biggest PC villain IG into thinking that character was a god. He became a religious zealot, creating his own religion based on that character and did that character's bidding. Personality-wise, my character was batshit insane and had no grasp on reality due to being tortured. He genuinely thought they were the good guys and anyone who opposed his "God" was the villain.
It's all in how you play the character, the motives, etc. You could be a chaotic evil character without randomly killing the innocent just for shits and giggles. And a lot of people don't realize that.
I just picked back to into playing after many years away from gaming (thank you Covid). Back in the 80's when I started playing, evil PC's almost invariably led to PvP. I as many fell into this trap.
Our current game has a table rule that PvP combat is not allowed. I'm playing the only evil PC in a group that is generally LN\CG. Our group is not as virtuous as the rest of the world sees us. My PC is a very classic Faustian blastlock with an imp familiar (LE). He is self serving and his larger goals are to gain a keep and elevate from a noble to a Lord Baron. In game, he has tried to manipulate situations to further these goals.
We are lucky to have a rich campaign world, and one thing that is evident is that many of the main NPC's are also "not good". They have their motivations they care about more than us. So my PC fits perfect into this type of world. But I justify why the group's goals are also my character's goals. Playing an evil PC takes some work to not devolve into "you only win when your other plyers don't". Its far more fun to make the team goals matter to your character too. I've manipulated to get the treasure share I've wanted; but at the end of the adventure the spoils are still an equal division.
I ask a player who wants to play an evil alignment; what is your character's motivation to work within a team dynamic? Why join a group? Why would a group want you to adventure with them? For my PC, the world is dangerous and without allies there is no way he is going to gain what he desires. And his group sees him as a useful part of the team, and not someone who they have to worry may turn on them at a moment. Don't make your character so narrow that they only care about themselves, and not even the consequences of their actions.
This!! 100% this!!! As I've mentioned in my previous post, I've done mainly play-by-post/forum-based RPs. And I mainly play evil characters. I cannot play good. I've tried but it fails lol. But I read some other "evil" characters' posts and it's like they don't understand evil doesn't always equal horrible. Or that a character has to be obviously in-your-face singing Voltaire's "When You're Evil". A character can be discreetly evil.
In a Regency-Era RP I had going on, I played a doctor. The doctor was gay in a time when being gay was illegal. His lover was a Viscount. The Viscount abandoned him on a ship during a pirate raid. The doctor was only kept alive because he was a doctor and could help the pirates. They wound up letting him go. He comes back and finds the Viscount is married to some Noblewoman [not by choice]. So he winds up snapping. The doctor begins finding prostitutes who look like the Viscount's wife and kills them and leaves their bodies on the street Jack the Ripper-style. Now, to the public, he's seen as this shy, sweet, innocent physician who all the Nobles go to. No one so much as suspects that he is this serial killer terrorizing London except the Viscount. When interacting with other PCs, he wasn't all "I'm a murderer! Stabby stabby!" He was well-spoken, soft-spoken, shy, formal, and polite.
I feel like the issue is that most people tend to view evil characters as a "get out of jail free" card or a way to do awful things without needing a reason. "Why did Bob the Elf kill that vendor?" "Because Bob the Elf is evil, that's why!" Or for people to play jerk characters and not need a reason. I cannot tell you how many times I've gone through RP sites and read the RPs of some o the evil characters and they tend to all be exactly the same:
Evil is alone in a bar or club, drinking and lurking. Another PC comes up and talks to Evil. Evil is a complete jerk and then leaves or acts worse and worse until the RP cannot be replied to anymore.
That's not good RPing if you cannot even write a thread that doesn't get beyond 4 posts unless each post was a novel or it was planned to be a short post to introduce the characters before another bigger post. It also makes it hard for others to interact with them and makes people not want to interact with that character unless completely necessary.
I'm facing (when the campaign eventually starts, grumbe grumble scheduling grumble...) the prospect of my character moving from neutral to evil. It's very much going to be lawful evil, and also directed - more that the PC will be viewed as evil by the world and not care than that they are an inherently evil person.
The Character is a paladin, who was trained in the last forest of the world and saw it fall to industrial powers, and now has to decide between trying to rebuild the world or exact vengeance on the industrialists - both will be a lifetimes pursuit, so I can't pick both. As such, I might end up evil against the industrialists, who will have the backing of the law on their side and be viewed as "the good guys" in the world, even though they created the apocalypse - money is power, and history is written by the victors, and all that. My character will think of themselves as good, but will be seen as evil in a corrupt world.
I wonder if this approach - starting neutral and becoming evil if it fits - is the better one. For example, I might end up in a party with an industrialist, and come to sympathize with them, perhaps even embrace the machinery, and forge my story in that direction. Only time will tell!
You could go in the "neutral evil" direction. Paladin doesn't necessarily HATE all Industrialists but is also looking to exact revenge on specifically the government who is causing the industrial revolution.
You could go in the "neutral evil" direction. Paladin doesn't necessarily HATE all Industrialists but is also looking to exact revenge on specifically the government who is causing the industrial revolution.
yes, I'm deliberately keeping it open for this guy, I don't want to tie him down to an alignment until I start roleplaying and build him as an actual character and not a concept! There are a lot of people who would say that (in the real world) going and destroying the machines and chasing off the people deforesting the rainforest would be a good thing, and there are others that say it would be an evil thing. I'm aiming for depth!
You could go in the "neutral evil" direction. Paladin doesn't necessarily HATE all Industrialists but is also looking to exact revenge on specifically the government who is causing the industrial revolution.
yes, I'm deliberately keeping it open for this guy, I don't want to tie him down to an alignment until I start roleplaying and build him as an actual character and not a concept! There are a lot of people who would say that (in the real world) going and destroying the machines and chasing off the people deforesting the rainforest would be a good thing, and there are others that say it would be an evil thing. I'm aiming for depth!
Makes sense. And remember "evil" is a concept. What's "evil" to the world you're playing in may be skewed. What if your character plants trees wherever he goes as a way to rebuild the forests that were destroyed? That's not inherently evil, but in the Paladin's world, it could be seen as evil. It's not hurting anyone or being malicious, but it could be seen as a sign of "rebellion."
You could go in the "neutral evil" direction. Paladin doesn't necessarily HATE all Industrialists but is also looking to exact revenge on specifically the government who is causing the industrial revolution.
yes, I'm deliberately keeping it open for this guy, I don't want to tie him down to an alignment until I start roleplaying and build him as an actual character and not a concept! There are a lot of people who would say that (in the real world) going and destroying the machines and chasing off the people deforesting the rainforest would be a good thing, and there are others that say it would be an evil thing. I'm aiming for depth!
Makes sense. And remember "evil" is a concept. What's "evil" to the world you're playing in may be skewed. What if your character plants trees wherever he goes as a way to rebuild the forests that were destroyed? That's not inherently evil, but in the Paladin's world, it could be seen as evil. It's not hurting anyone or being malicious, but it could be seen as a sign of "rebellion."
Exactly so - he has a pouch of seeds which he plants anywhere. I'm also going to work with the DM for his sacred hammer (the oakhammer) to cause any slain by it to sprout oak saplings over a few weeks after death, which will be awesome :)
You could go in the "neutral evil" direction. Paladin doesn't necessarily HATE all Industrialists but is also looking to exact revenge on specifically the government who is causing the industrial revolution.
yes, I'm deliberately keeping it open for this guy, I don't want to tie him down to an alignment until I start roleplaying and build him as an actual character and not a concept! There are a lot of people who would say that (in the real world) going and destroying the machines and chasing off the people deforesting the rainforest would be a good thing, and there are others that say it would be an evil thing. I'm aiming for depth!
Makes sense. And remember "evil" is a concept. What's "evil" to the world you're playing in may be skewed. What if your character plants trees wherever he goes as a way to rebuild the forests that were destroyed? That's not inherently evil, but in the Paladin's world, it could be seen as evil. It's not hurting anyone or being malicious, but it could be seen as a sign of "rebellion."
Exactly so - he has a pouch of seeds which he plants anywhere. I'm also going to work with the DM for his sacred hammer (the oakhammer) to cause any slain by it to sprout oak saplings over a few weeks after death, which will be awesome :)
This is almost the exact opposite to my homebrew world (where trees are said to be home to the souls of the dead and cuting them down triggered a vicious war).
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Chilling kinda vibe.
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Thanks Penelope.
Chilling kinda vibe.
Warning: All opinion. You will find no facts in this reply.
Firstly in agreement with much that's been stated: It's all about the group with whom you're playing.
I find it interesting that the easiest and hardest Evil to RP is Chaotic Evil.
"Loves chaos and carnage but doesn't get in the way of the party objectives" is easy to do if the party is the kind of group who doesn't think things through. It's difficult if the party considers each action carefully to reduce suffering and splash damage. Parties that always talk their way through encounters are more difficult for CE people unless the parties are the rare kind who use such talky encounters to weaken/scam the opponents. Yet, murderminded parties offer no contrast to the CE personality - which ends up making a cool alignment just another in a crowd. A good middle-grounded, mixed party can let a CE shine without hogging the spotlight or feeling lost in the crowd.
As for NE: NE is often one who doesn't really care one way or another about anyone else. Apathy, to me, is boring (while Apathy is the crux that enables Evil acts in most cases).
To add my 2c for LE: Manipulation is just not my strong suit. People who can play emotional and legal chess with the characters in the party are good for LE RP. The problem is when the players start to feel they've been manipulated. Instead of leaning into it, I find that we'll start to lean away from the LE character - losing the necessary trust to be a cohesive unit.
Final disclaimer: Opinions based on experience and observations. Not facts.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I tend to find Neutral Evil isn't apathetic, but just tries to get away with what they can - with no feelings for the consequences on others.
Chilling kinda vibe.
In my opinion, I find NE and LE the easier to play. CE is hard for me personally to find synergy with the party, but that's probably just me. As a DM, I tend to not allow CE in the party because it can turn into a PvP brawl after the CE character backstabs or throws the good characters under the bus just for the fun of it. I main githyanki as a race and I find a nice balance of NE, LE, and LN. The trick is kind to be a jerk, but be the funny lovable jerk that everyone picks on (think zuko from AtlA, bakugo from bnha, etc). I find tv tropes is a great website to pull your character's moral values from. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice
Lawful Evil lets you kinda avoid the "I won't work with good characters who do good deeds" thing. Lawful Evil doesn't require conniving or keen intellect, you just need a code that you follow, ie the Gith follow their moral code that the strong dominate the weak and that the conquest of other humanoids is justified as natural intention. If your LE character respects honor and strength, it will be easier to establish party connections.
For Neutral Evil, I recommend playing like chaotic neutral in a sense. Self serving but with a tendency towards cruelty. Too much of NE can usually end up as CE though.
I really enjoy playing evil characters, and I play them a lot. An important thing to remember is that just because they're evil doesn't mean they have no redeeming features. Not all evil characters are sociopaths who only have "friends" because it benefits them. Evil characters have loved ones, too. Evil characters can fit into society perfectly well. They don't have to be scheming backstabbers who will betray their allies as soon as they get the chance. They only have to put their own **or a group's** welfare/agendas above those of everyone else.
Another common misconception is that all CE characters are murderhobos. This isn't true. Most people in real life don't get away with murder or genocide because they're really powerful (even if they are). They get away with it because they're clever enough or charismatic enough to distort the truth. Building on to this, a common archetype for villains/evil characters is that they want something that is arguably beneficial to society (world peace, no poverty, etc.) but that the way they bring about this goal is through mass murder or other methods of questionable morality. The ends justify the means. However, for some reason, almost every example of this archetype is LE. That doesn't have to be true. A character can be purely, utterly despicable, with no moral code whatsoever, and still have a selfless goal (or so they say).
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Yep. I always DM, so I have never really played an evil PC, but when I DM, my villains are more complex than "I evil so me kill everything and everyone."
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
Often, an evil character will see themselves as having good intentions and it's only to others that they appear ot have an evil alignment. This is often the case with sociopaths and extremists, who take their ideals too far. A good idea when creating such a character is to really get under their skin and see why they believe their motivations are pure.
Chilling kinda vibe.
A fair amount of the characters i create tend to default to evil. i just started playing true dnd and i had to check with my DM first to make sure it was ok, but he is letting me play Lawful Evil as my first character and so far the group has had no problems with her. Actually, she is probably the most trusted person in the group right now.
I think the main issue people tend to have with evil alignments is that people assume that evil instantly equals murder/ backstabbing in the same way people sometimes assume chaotic = steal everything. so just don't fall into that trap and you should be ok. there are so many more degrees of evil than just that and no one is all evil all the time. they are often selfish or willing to go farther to get what they want vrs the rest of the party, but that does not mean they must back stab everyone they meet. Maybe they are only concerned with money and if you cant pay for their help, then they wont save you and that is how they are evil. (oh dear, this sinking ship only has so many life boats. i am now selling seats to the highest bidder) Or maybe they are trying to bring back a lost love and will strike any dark bargain necessary to do bring them back. Likely their level of selfishness could even benefit the party over time. Sure, your character may not care if those orphans over there are on fire, but once they become attached to the party they may be willing to do anything to protect them- including things the rest of the party would never consider.
Like right now, i am playing an oblex assassin who is enslaved by a crime family. She has no respect for the dead, stole from a church in a recently destroyed town, is 100% cool with torturing people for information and just straight up ate a guy so she could use their bones. But she is also incredibly non-malicious when left to her own choices and tries not to kill if she has not been ordered to. she views secrets as sacred and can be trusted with anything the party tells her without fear of judgment. she is good at planning things, always remains calm and friendly towards others and is rather protective of the changeling paladin in the party despite knowing that the guy would absolutely kill her if he knew what she really was. and since she is LE she views her word as a binding contract- which can lead to things both good and bad. If she agreed to help someone she respects and that person is doing good things, then she must do good things. but if she accepts a contract from a quest giver who turns out to have a malicious ulterior motive- she wouldn't view that as a valid reason for backing out of her contract with them.
I also have a NE/CE character in the works. She is unapologetically evil. destroyed a whole city once when they killed her husband. She also tends to view even the people she cares about as "things" in her "collection." but she is very, very protective of her "things." to the point of willing to die for the people she cares about without a second thought. she also is not against doing good things and will be fairly willing to cooperate with the party, so long as she is either paid for it or she thinks the adventure will be entertaining. Her main problem is that she has lived too long and is incredibly bored, so if you can convince her doing good will be more fun- she will gladly do it. this also ties into the Chaotic part of her potently Chaotic Evil alignment. She wont go around killing random shopkeeps because that would make for a boring story- but she might send an unseen servant to go cut the buttons off of everyone's pants during a fancy party if the local lord offended her. And she might just touch that very-clearly trapped object just to see what will happen.
basically, if you can come up with a character who has layers to their personality and reasons for the things they do beyond "its evil and i'm evil guy," then you should be fine. maybe instead of viewing their evil alignment as "this is their starting point," view the alignment as a gangue of "how far they are willing to go."
you might struggle to gel well with some party comps if they distrust you- but take if from me when i say a lot of players/characters can fail to notice how messed up you are if your character still makes an effort to be kind and dependable to the party . (like, seriously. my character just recommended cutting of some kids fingers as punishment and offered to sell drugs for everyone- and the party was still surprised to find out she had a criminal background because she is so cheery and helpful.)
I really like your response! Your character also sounds pretty interesting.
To add on to what you said, almost no one thinks of themselves as evil. Most people who others might think are "evil" in real life aren't CE murderhobos that kill everyone who looks at them funny. Most "evil" people fall into two categories: selfish and pragmatic.
Selfish people do what's best for them or an exclusive group of people. They only think about the needs of themselves or others in that group, and all others are inferior (possibly to the point of not even treating them as sentient beings). Selfish people act in a manner that is beneficial to them, often without regards to consequences suffered by others. Selfish people don't usually hurt other people intentionally (unless they're discriminatory selfish, more on that later). Instead, they simply don't care. Other people aren't important to them, and if they die, well, that's on them. Selfishness comes in different types, from merely being vain, to putting yourself above everyone else, to discrimination against those who are not included in your "superior" group.
Vanity is a common trope for villains, especially in Disney movies or works aimed at younger audiences. Take the Evil Queen from Snow White. Why does she want to kill Snow? It's not because she hates all other people, or because Snow is in her way. It's because Snow White has committed the heinous crime of being better than her. Of course, many people are vain and the Evil Queen is an extreme example, but she does a good job of portraying vanity in a villainous way.
The most common type of selfishness (or at least the best known) is putting your own needs above those of the world. Characters with this type of selfishness will act in a way that benefits them most, and a good way to have one of these characters join an adventuring party is to have it be the most beneficial option for them. Plain and simple. Mundungus Fletcher from Harry Potter is a good example of this kind of selfishness. He's not actively trying to be a bad person, Mundungus just does what's good for Mundungus.
The final type is the most one that's most obviously considered evil. It is, in short, extreme nationality. These kinds of characters put those in their group above everyone else. They're superior to those outside of it, and might even consider others to be non-sentient at this trope's most extreme. While I can't think of a movie or book example off the top of my head, the drow represent this trope rather well, considering other humanoids to be nothing more than slaves.
The second main real life type of "evil" is pragmatism (note, I'm talking about a specific trope, not pragmatists in general). These are well-intentioned people, but for them, the ends justify the means. To them, it doesn't matter if a hundred thousand people die, as long as it makes the world better (in their opinion). This type of character is especially scary because they are trying to do the right thing, but they'll do anything to achieve it. However, they're often able to be reasoned with, and might work alongside a good character, even if they think they're "soft."
There are at least two other types, lunatics (whether from grief or insanity) and sociopaths, but I think that they're pretty well explained with a quick Google search.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Someone mentioned how wrecking a vehicle in Avernus was going to lose their deposit.
I mentioned that none of them must be Lawful Good characters because Lawful Good characters would find creative ways to righteously justify stealing the vehicles without changing their alignments.
Also...
"Good? Evil? It's all about reputation. I want stuff without paying for it. That's supposedly evil, but if they think I'm good, they're more inclined to just let me have it."
(from here)
My advice: Forget alignment. They're restrictive. Just do what you think your character would do - no fitting into boxes or categories - just let it flow. Let the DM decide how your actions affect things. Just leave that spot blank on your character sheets.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I don’t have anything new to add rn but I love reading you guys’ opinions on this issue.
I just picked back to into playing after many years away from gaming (thank you Covid). Back in the 80's when I started playing, evil PC's almost invariably led to PvP. I as many fell into this trap.
Our current game has a table rule that PvP combat is not allowed. I'm playing the only evil PC in a group that is generally LN\CG. Our group is not as virtuous as the rest of the world sees us. My PC is a very classic Faustian blastlock with an imp familiar (LE). He is self serving and his larger goals are to gain a keep and elevate from a noble to a Lord Baron. In game, he has tried to manipulate situations to further these goals.
We are lucky to have a rich campaign world, and one thing that is evident is that many of the main NPC's are also "not good". They have their motivations they care about more than us. So my PC fits perfect into this type of world. But I justify why the group's goals are also my character's goals. Playing an evil PC takes some work to not devolve into "you only win when your other plyers don't". Its far more fun to make the team goals matter to your character too. I've manipulated to get the treasure share I've wanted; but at the end of the adventure the spoils are still an equal division.
I ask a player who wants to play an evil alignment; what is your character's motivation to work within a team dynamic? Why join a group? Why would a group want you to adventure with them? For my PC, the world is dangerous and without allies there is no way he is going to gain what he desires. And his group sees him as a useful part of the team, and not someone who they have to worry may turn on them at a moment. Don't make your character so narrow that they only care about themselves, and not even the consequences of their actions.
Contrary to what others are saying, it can be done. I play mainly evil characters. A lot of people try and fail because they think "evil" = *******, which isn't necessarily the case. You can play evil without making the character a complete dick/*****. I've done mainly PbP RPGs and I find a lot of "evil" characters tend to fall flat or tend to fit into a trope/stereotype, which is a huge no.
An example of an evil character I've done is a few years back, I played on a PbP RPG forum. My character became one of the major PC villains in one of the villages. Not because he was an awful person, but because he was brainwashed by the biggest PC villain IG into thinking that character was a god. He became a religious zealot, creating his own religion based on that character and did that character's bidding. Personality-wise, my character was batshit insane and had no grasp on reality due to being tortured. He genuinely thought they were the good guys and anyone who opposed his "God" was the villain.
It's all in how you play the character, the motives, etc. You could be a chaotic evil character without randomly killing the innocent just for shits and giggles. And a lot of people don't realize that.
This!! 100% this!!! As I've mentioned in my previous post, I've done mainly play-by-post/forum-based RPs. And I mainly play evil characters. I cannot play good. I've tried but it fails lol. But I read some other "evil" characters' posts and it's like they don't understand evil doesn't always equal horrible. Or that a character has to be obviously in-your-face singing Voltaire's "When You're Evil". A character can be discreetly evil.
In a Regency-Era RP I had going on, I played a doctor. The doctor was gay in a time when being gay was illegal. His lover was a Viscount. The Viscount abandoned him on a ship during a pirate raid. The doctor was only kept alive because he was a doctor and could help the pirates. They wound up letting him go. He comes back and finds the Viscount is married to some Noblewoman [not by choice]. So he winds up snapping. The doctor begins finding prostitutes who look like the Viscount's wife and kills them and leaves their bodies on the street Jack the Ripper-style. Now, to the public, he's seen as this shy, sweet, innocent physician who all the Nobles go to. No one so much as suspects that he is this serial killer terrorizing London except the Viscount. When interacting with other PCs, he wasn't all "I'm a murderer! Stabby stabby!" He was well-spoken, soft-spoken, shy, formal, and polite.
I feel like the issue is that most people tend to view evil characters as a "get out of jail free" card or a way to do awful things without needing a reason. "Why did Bob the Elf kill that vendor?" "Because Bob the Elf is evil, that's why!" Or for people to play jerk characters and not need a reason. I cannot tell you how many times I've gone through RP sites and read the RPs of some o the evil characters and they tend to all be exactly the same:
Evil is alone in a bar or club, drinking and lurking. Another PC comes up and talks to Evil. Evil is a complete jerk and then leaves or acts worse and worse until the RP cannot be replied to anymore.
That's not good RPing if you cannot even write a thread that doesn't get beyond 4 posts unless each post was a novel or it was planned to be a short post to introduce the characters before another bigger post. It also makes it hard for others to interact with them and makes people not want to interact with that character unless completely necessary.
I'm facing (when the campaign eventually starts, grumbe grumble scheduling grumble...) the prospect of my character moving from neutral to evil. It's very much going to be lawful evil, and also directed - more that the PC will be viewed as evil by the world and not care than that they are an inherently evil person.
The Character is a paladin, who was trained in the last forest of the world and saw it fall to industrial powers, and now has to decide between trying to rebuild the world or exact vengeance on the industrialists - both will be a lifetimes pursuit, so I can't pick both. As such, I might end up evil against the industrialists, who will have the backing of the law on their side and be viewed as "the good guys" in the world, even though they created the apocalypse - money is power, and history is written by the victors, and all that. My character will think of themselves as good, but will be seen as evil in a corrupt world.
I wonder if this approach - starting neutral and becoming evil if it fits - is the better one. For example, I might end up in a party with an industrialist, and come to sympathize with them, perhaps even embrace the machinery, and forge my story in that direction. Only time will tell!
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You could go in the "neutral evil" direction. Paladin doesn't necessarily HATE all Industrialists but is also looking to exact revenge on specifically the government who is causing the industrial revolution.
yes, I'm deliberately keeping it open for this guy, I don't want to tie him down to an alignment until I start roleplaying and build him as an actual character and not a concept! There are a lot of people who would say that (in the real world) going and destroying the machines and chasing off the people deforesting the rainforest would be a good thing, and there are others that say it would be an evil thing. I'm aiming for depth!
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Makes sense. And remember "evil" is a concept. What's "evil" to the world you're playing in may be skewed. What if your character plants trees wherever he goes as a way to rebuild the forests that were destroyed? That's not inherently evil, but in the Paladin's world, it could be seen as evil. It's not hurting anyone or being malicious, but it could be seen as a sign of "rebellion."
Exactly so - he has a pouch of seeds which he plants anywhere. I'm also going to work with the DM for his sacred hammer (the oakhammer) to cause any slain by it to sprout oak saplings over a few weeks after death, which will be awesome :)
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
This is almost the exact opposite to my homebrew world (where trees are said to be home to the souls of the dead and cuting them down triggered a vicious war).
Chilling kinda vibe.