I've ran some campaigns with this fellow and one thing his character always had jacked stats and nothing negative about his character. I personally just srugged it off but in the game he would not let anyone do anything telling them that "well I'll pass it so no need to do any checks" this kind of made me a little distrot cause I wanted it to be a team effort not a one man army. So when he made a slight of hand check I fuged dice and made him fail (I know fudging is bad but in this predicament I wanted him to fail once for other players know that he can fail and would give them a chance cause of one mess up ) he rolled a 17 without the modifiers. So I set the DC to 30 to make sure he did not pass. I told him he was caught by the npc and he started ranting about how he got a 17 and how he did not get to pick pocket and how I was picking favorites and that he should have at least got something out of it. I'm new to DMing so I haven't came a cross this type of player before and I need help to either ask him to stop minmaxing or let everyone else get to try cause it hurts the emerson.
But this would be terrible advice. Thankfully I'm not a DM so let's try a different tactic.
The specific situation
You can remind him that any time he rolls a dice he may fail. If there was no opportunity to fail there would not be a dice to roll. Even criticals- rolling a natural 20 - does not actually mean success if the difficulty is high enough because "critical rolls" only apply to attacks and saving throws not to ability checks. He rolled an ability check. He failed. Different circumstances and situations have different difficulties and his roll was not sufficient in this instance in this circumstance so he was noticed and caught because pickpocketing is illegal. This also means you would not get to take anything and the results of a failure are up to the DM not a player. In this situation his failure meant he didn't get anything and was caught by the guards and there will be repercussions for breaking the law. His character is not immune to this.
The min-maxing
I am not a fan of this as I favour roleplay over maths but I also know there's nothing actually wrong with it. He's a player who made his character using the choices and source materials you permitted. Unless he's going way out of the box or has a backstory/adventure that doesn't account for his multiclass choices (you're not going to suddenly become sneaky Rogue after being a warrior for so long if there's no other rogue character training you and no sessions where you have spent lots of adventures being sneaky and picking locks).
Min-maxing requires multiclass and if the backstory of the character or the current story you've played in your sessions doesn't account for the multiclass then you should not permit it. If he's a wizard who has never swung a sword and has not been putting time to roleplay or discuss that he's been training in downtime (bearing in mind downtime training outside of the main adventure will take MONTHS of in-game time, if not years - the 1st level represents years of training) then he's not going to suddenly wake up one day and be proficient with weapons and armour and such. Likewise you cannot just suddenly turn into a Druid or Cleric. The only class you don't need a backstory for is Sorcerer because you can just say the powers unlocked, due to how Sorcerers work. All other classes require backstory made before your game started or discussion and progression to represent the transition in story.
I would say that going forward if they cannot specifically explain where the knowledge and training comes from then they cannot multiclass again. This would not stop them gaining levels in classes they already have, but unless they can provide reasoning they cannot just start going into a different class.
Fudging dice
While I cannot say I am a fan I would never begrudge a DM for doing this. A DM has a difficult role and has to make big decisions on the fly. Technically, a DM does not need to roll a die. Now, of course they do because it's much fairer than the DM picking who gets attacked when and such as and provides randomness that makes the game unpredictable and fun. But ultimately, they don't have to. They can control anything. That's their job. A DM will roll but has option to ignore the dice and go with a different result if they feel it necessary. This is why DMs have a DM Screen - to hide things. It hides rolls, it hides notes it gives the DM the ability to make on-the-fly changes without anyone knowing.
If you feel a fudge of the dice or an overrule was necessary, so be it. Don't apologise, it's specifically your job to make these calls. You are there to provide the story and world, you are there to oversee decisions and results and you are there to ensure things stay fun for everyone. This may mean helping one player learn a lesson if they are causing problems and spoiling enjoyment for other players - including you. You're there to have fun as well.
His attitude
Sucks. He's not a good player. It's one thing to min-max but another to keep doing rolls for everyone just because he thinks he's better or that his dice roll means he gets to challenge you. He's also metagaming. If somebody has asked to do something involving a check and he goes "I'll pass so let me do it", just say "no, player x's character has said they are doing this. Player X please roll..." - If he keeps forcing his character into the situation anyway and taking over then I would suggest talking to him about it. He's spoiling it for others, and needs to learn to share the spotlight and let them play as well - the game is for everyone and is not a competition, it's not about who is best at what.
Furthermore it's not possible to be proficient in everything and you can have only those who are proficient in something be capable of making a check. Let's say he's not proficient in history and another player is. You ask for a history check from those proficient. If he rolls anyway, then no matter what he rolls declare he doesn't know the history about this particular thing and if questions this tell him "making a check determines if you can remember what you have learned. Proficiency is learning it in the first place. Some things are common knowledge - everyone learns it at some point. You don't need proficiency for those checks. This piece of history is not common knowledge at all and only those with proficiency - which marks years in specific studying on history -will ever know this. You are not proficient, you never learned this, so you cannot remember it."
Ensure that you provide reasons for characters to use their proficiencies - and sometimes reasons for those not proficient to shut up and sit down and let those who are to make rolls. Cater some encounters for the spellcasters in the group, for the stealthy or for the direct combat. If he's a spellcaster with a spell-for-everything then slam down some counterspells or antimagic fields. Does his min-maxing rely heavily on special items and equipment? Throw a beholder - in their main eye's gaze and in antimagic fields magic items actually do not work - not even potions do.
No min-maxing will make you best at everything, the min part is there because you are gearing yourself into something specific, sacrificing efficiency in one area (min) to increase efficiency in another (max) so you will need to have encounters based on his "min" side forcing him to take a backseat so others can take the spotlight.
Obviously, do not go so far as to punish him for it. He deserves the spotlight too.
If he ignores this and complains speak to him after session and get feedback from others separately. He needs to learn to let others play. Do not approach this as a principle and naughty schoolboy type of thing. It's not wrong for him to want his character to shine and he may not even realise he's spoiling it for others. Just explain that he is, you've discussed it with everyone and would like him to reel it in a bit so others can play too.
If he doesn't improve, and everyone agress he isn't, discuss with him again and politely explain this game is for everyone not just him and if he doesn't improve he will have to leave the group.
If he still doesn't improve, explain to him it's been three strikes, kill his character and kick him the **** out.
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I've ran some campaigns with this fellow and one thing his character always had jacked stats and nothing negative about his character. I personally just srugged it off but in the game he would not let anyone do anything telling them that "well I'll pass it so no need to do any checks" this kind of made me a little distrot cause I wanted it to be a team effort not a one man army. So when he made a slight of hand check I fuged dice and made him fail (I know fudging is bad but in this predicament I wanted him to fail once for other players know that he can fail and would give them a chance cause of one mess up ) he rolled a 17 without the modifiers. So I set the DC to 30 to make sure he did not pass. I told him he was caught by the npc and he started ranting about how he got a 17 and how he did not get to pick pocket and how I was picking favorites and that he should have at least got something out of it. I'm new to DMing so I haven't came a cross this type of player before and I need help to either ask him to stop minmaxing or let everyone else get to try cause it hurts the emerson.
If I was the DM: I'd tell him to grow up.
But this would be terrible advice. Thankfully I'm not a DM so let's try a different tactic.
The specific situation
You can remind him that any time he rolls a dice he may fail. If there was no opportunity to fail there would not be a dice to roll. Even criticals- rolling a natural 20 - does not actually mean success if the difficulty is high enough because "critical rolls" only apply to attacks and saving throws not to ability checks. He rolled an ability check. He failed. Different circumstances and situations have different difficulties and his roll was not sufficient in this instance in this circumstance so he was noticed and caught because pickpocketing is illegal. This also means you would not get to take anything and the results of a failure are up to the DM not a player. In this situation his failure meant he didn't get anything and was caught by the guards and there will be repercussions for breaking the law. His character is not immune to this.
The min-maxing
I am not a fan of this as I favour roleplay over maths but I also know there's nothing actually wrong with it. He's a player who made his character using the choices and source materials you permitted. Unless he's going way out of the box or has a backstory/adventure that doesn't account for his multiclass choices (you're not going to suddenly become sneaky Rogue after being a warrior for so long if there's no other rogue character training you and no sessions where you have spent lots of adventures being sneaky and picking locks).
Min-maxing requires multiclass and if the backstory of the character or the current story you've played in your sessions doesn't account for the multiclass then you should not permit it. If he's a wizard who has never swung a sword and has not been putting time to roleplay or discuss that he's been training in downtime (bearing in mind downtime training outside of the main adventure will take MONTHS of in-game time, if not years - the 1st level represents years of training) then he's not going to suddenly wake up one day and be proficient with weapons and armour and such. Likewise you cannot just suddenly turn into a Druid or Cleric. The only class you don't need a backstory for is Sorcerer because you can just say the powers unlocked, due to how Sorcerers work. All other classes require backstory made before your game started or discussion and progression to represent the transition in story.
I would say that going forward if they cannot specifically explain where the knowledge and training comes from then they cannot multiclass again. This would not stop them gaining levels in classes they already have, but unless they can provide reasoning they cannot just start going into a different class.
Fudging dice
While I cannot say I am a fan I would never begrudge a DM for doing this. A DM has a difficult role and has to make big decisions on the fly. Technically, a DM does not need to roll a die. Now, of course they do because it's much fairer than the DM picking who gets attacked when and such as and provides randomness that makes the game unpredictable and fun. But ultimately, they don't have to. They can control anything. That's their job. A DM will roll but has option to ignore the dice and go with a different result if they feel it necessary. This is why DMs have a DM Screen - to hide things. It hides rolls, it hides notes it gives the DM the ability to make on-the-fly changes without anyone knowing.
If you feel a fudge of the dice or an overrule was necessary, so be it. Don't apologise, it's specifically your job to make these calls. You are there to provide the story and world, you are there to oversee decisions and results and you are there to ensure things stay fun for everyone. This may mean helping one player learn a lesson if they are causing problems and spoiling enjoyment for other players - including you. You're there to have fun as well.
His attitude
Sucks. He's not a good player. It's one thing to min-max but another to keep doing rolls for everyone just because he thinks he's better or that his dice roll means he gets to challenge you. He's also metagaming. If somebody has asked to do something involving a check and he goes "I'll pass so let me do it", just say "no, player x's character has said they are doing this. Player X please roll..." - If he keeps forcing his character into the situation anyway and taking over then I would suggest talking to him about it. He's spoiling it for others, and needs to learn to share the spotlight and let them play as well - the game is for everyone and is not a competition, it's not about who is best at what.
Furthermore it's not possible to be proficient in everything and you can have only those who are proficient in something be capable of making a check. Let's say he's not proficient in history and another player is. You ask for a history check from those proficient. If he rolls anyway, then no matter what he rolls declare he doesn't know the history about this particular thing and if questions this tell him "making a check determines if you can remember what you have learned. Proficiency is learning it in the first place. Some things are common knowledge - everyone learns it at some point. You don't need proficiency for those checks. This piece of history is not common knowledge at all and only those with proficiency - which marks years in specific studying on history -will ever know this. You are not proficient, you never learned this, so you cannot remember it."
Ensure that you provide reasons for characters to use their proficiencies - and sometimes reasons for those not proficient to shut up and sit down and let those who are to make rolls. Cater some encounters for the spellcasters in the group, for the stealthy or for the direct combat. If he's a spellcaster with a spell-for-everything then slam down some counterspells or antimagic fields. Does his min-maxing rely heavily on special items and equipment? Throw a beholder - in their main eye's gaze and in antimagic fields magic items actually do not work - not even potions do.
No min-maxing will make you best at everything, the min part is there because you are gearing yourself into something specific, sacrificing efficiency in one area (min) to increase efficiency in another (max) so you will need to have encounters based on his "min" side forcing him to take a backseat so others can take the spotlight.
Obviously, do not go so far as to punish him for it. He deserves the spotlight too.
If he ignores this and complains speak to him after session and get feedback from others separately. He needs to learn to let others play. Do not approach this as a principle and naughty schoolboy type of thing. It's not wrong for him to want his character to shine and he may not even realise he's spoiling it for others. Just explain that he is, you've discussed it with everyone and would like him to reel it in a bit so others can play too.
If he doesn't improve, and everyone agress he isn't, discuss with him again and politely explain this game is for everyone not just him and if he doesn't improve he will have to leave the group.
If he still doesn't improve, explain to him it's been three strikes, kill his character and kick him the **** out.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.