Okay, I looked it up more carefully and the Find Familiar spell does state that when it delivers the spell it "Can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell", so I think that says pretty definitively, for the purposes of something like invisibility, that the Familiar is treated as though it had cast a spell and would thus no longer be invisible.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
Two different conversations, but I didn't do myself any favors by having both of them in the same reply.
EDIT: Due to the wording, I believe both the caster and the familiar would become visible in the rare case that both the caster and the familiar are invisible, and the caster uses the familiar to deliver a touch spell. But we're drifting into rules & game mechanics territory.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
That's my problem with inflict wounds, though: if something is in your face, is a tiny bit more damage your priority?
I mean, it's not *bad*, but even at characer level 5 your Shocking Grasp would do, on average, only 6.5 damage less, and it removes their reaction, so you can move out of their melee range. 6.5 damage isn't nothing, but let's face it, it's pretty damn close to nothing. It only gets worse as you level up.
I just can't imagine burning spell slots on that difference.
Upcasting is worse. Scorching Ray alone is getting 2d6 per up-level, which is better on average than the 1d10 you get up-levelling Inflict Wounds, and it's way more versatile. I can't image many days I'd want to cast a 3rd level inflict wounds when I could lightning bolt some peeps or haste the fighter.
So it's one free cast of a spell that's sort of ok, and is maybe letting you get an extra 6.5 damage once per day - assuming you hit - at the cost of not removing their reaction, and being almost no difference at all in damage from level 11.
...I do not see that's really worth much of anything.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
That's my problem with inflict wounds, though: if something is in your face, is a tiny bit more damage your priority?
I mean, it's not *bad*, but even at characer level 5 your Shocking Grasp would do, on average, only 6.5 damage less, and it removes their reaction, so you can move out of their melee range. 6.5 damage isn't nothing, but let's face it, it's pretty damn close to nothing. It only gets worse as you level up.
I just can't imagine burning spell slots on that difference.
Upcasting is worse. Scorching Ray alone is getting 2d6 per up-level, which is better on average than the 1d10 you get up-levelling Inflict Wounds, and it's way more versatile. I can't image many days I'd want to cast a 3rd level inflict wounds when I could lightning bolt some peeps or haste the fighter.
So it's one free cast of a spell that's sort of ok, and is maybe letting you get an extra 6.5 damage once per day - assuming you hit - at the cost of not removing their reaction, and being almost no difference at all in damage from level 11.
...I do not see that's really worth much of anything.
I'm confused. Inflict wounds does 16.5 average damage (at level 1) and shocking grasp (at character level 5) does 7 average damage. That 9.5 difference. Not 6.5
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
That's my problem with inflict wounds, though: if something is in your face, is a tiny bit more damage your priority?
I mean, it's not *bad*, but even at characer level 5 your Shocking Grasp would do, on average, only 6.5 damage less, and it removes their reaction, so you can move out of their melee range. 6.5 damage isn't nothing, but let's face it, it's pretty damn close to nothing. It only gets worse as you level up.
I just can't imagine burning spell slots on that difference.
Upcasting is worse. Scorching Ray alone is getting 2d6 per up-level, which is better on average than the 1d10 you get up-levelling Inflict Wounds, and it's way more versatile. I can't image many days I'd want to cast a 3rd level inflict wounds when I could lightning bolt some peeps or haste the fighter.
So it's one free cast of a spell that's sort of ok, and is maybe letting you get an extra 6.5 damage once per day - assuming you hit - at the cost of not removing their reaction, and being almost no difference at all in damage from level 11.
...I do not see that's really worth much of anything.
I'm confused. Inflict wounds does 16.5 average damage (at level 1) and shocking grasp (at character level 5) does 7 average damage. That 9.5 difference. Not 6.5
Err, fair, 16.5 for IF, but SG is 2d8, which is 9.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
That's my problem with inflict wounds, though: if something is in your face, is a tiny bit more damage your priority?
I mean, it's not *bad*, but even at characer level 5 your Shocking Grasp would do, on average, only 6.5 damage less, and it removes their reaction, so you can move out of their melee range. 6.5 damage isn't nothing, but let's face it, it's pretty damn close to nothing. It only gets worse as you level up.
I just can't imagine burning spell slots on that difference.
Upcasting is worse. Scorching Ray alone is getting 2d6 per up-level, which is better on average than the 1d10 you get up-levelling Inflict Wounds, and it's way more versatile. I can't image many days I'd want to cast a 3rd level inflict wounds when I could lightning bolt some peeps or haste the fighter.
So it's one free cast of a spell that's sort of ok, and is maybe letting you get an extra 6.5 damage once per day - assuming you hit - at the cost of not removing their reaction, and being almost no difference at all in damage from level 11.
...I do not see that's really worth much of anything.
I'm confused. Inflict wounds does 16.5 average damage (at level 1) and shocking grasp (at character level 5) does 7 average damage. That 9.5 difference. Not 6.5
Err, fair, 16.5 for IF, but SG is 2d8, which is 9.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
That's my problem with inflict wounds, though: if something is in your face, is a tiny bit more damage your priority?
I mean, it's not *bad*, but even at characer level 5 your Shocking Grasp would do, on average, only 6.5 damage less, and it removes their reaction, so you can move out of their melee range. 6.5 damage isn't nothing, but let's face it, it's pretty damn close to nothing. It only gets worse as you level up.
I just can't imagine burning spell slots on that difference.
Upcasting is worse. Scorching Ray alone is getting 2d6 per up-level, which is better on average than the 1d10 you get up-levelling Inflict Wounds, and it's way more versatile. I can't image many days I'd want to cast a 3rd level inflict wounds when I could lightning bolt some peeps or haste the fighter.
So it's one free cast of a spell that's sort of ok, and is maybe letting you get an extra 6.5 damage once per day - assuming you hit - at the cost of not removing their reaction, and being almost no difference at all in damage from level 11.
...I do not see that's really worth much of anything.
I don't have third level spell slots yet, so maybe it will become less practical as I advance.
I don't have third level spell slots yet, so maybe it will become less practical as I advance.
Sorry, I did explain that poorly.
The feat gives you a spell you're stuck with for the rest of the game. There's no changing it.
I'm saying that it's pretty well established that 3d10 is going to be mediocre damage at best after a few levels. It's not even that great at level 5.
But on top of that, it's not someting a Wizard in particular is ever going to want to spend a spell slot on, either to cast it more than once a day, or to up-cast it. There are better options for those slots.
So it's a once-a-day ability that's arguably better than a cantrip, maybe, in some cicumstances.
By comparison, Fey Touched gets Dissonant Whispers, which even if only cast once per day, is always useful, right into the endgame. Making something run away and suffer opportunity attacks is always going to be a good option to have up your sleeve. Another similar option is Command, which up-scales very nicely and has good out of combat utility. Gift of Alacrity is always going to be a great spell. And I'm not even going to suggest Silver Barbs, because that spell is bullshit.
Even in Shadow Touched, something like Disguise Self or Silent Image are both likey to be useful well into the levels, and are just the sort of spells that suck to have gunking up your memorisation list when you don't know you'll need them. Inflict Wounds, by comparison, is something you wouldn't want to have memorised from... level 5?
...but you can kinda see the difference, and why Fey Touched is liked more. FT's options just have more utility as you level up.
Shadow Touched is great for classes that won't get acccess to Invisibility and illusions, who can really get some work out of those two dailies. For pretty much anyone else, Fey Touched is just better.
Went Custom Lineage with the Fey Touched Feat to start. Took Bless as my second spell.
When you're stuck with only two spell slots, those two free extra spell usages are really nice. I cast Bless on my party, and used both my spell slots to raise two different teammates with Healing Word. In our encounters I stayed back spamming Vicious Mockery and handing out Inspiration Dice. I never got attacked, so I have not yet gotten to use Misty Step.
I don't have third level spell slots yet, so maybe it will become less practical as I advance.
Sorry, I did explain that poorly.
The feat gives you a spell you're stuck with for the rest of the game. There's no changing it.
I'm saying that it's pretty well established that 3d10 is going to be mediocre damage at best after a few levels. It's not even that great at level 5.
But on top of that, it's not someting a Wizard in particular is ever going to want to spend a spell slot on, either to cast it more than once a day, or to up-cast it. There are better options for those slots.
So it's a once-a-day ability that's arguably better than a cantrip, maybe, in some cicumstances.
One thing I'll say in Inflict Wounds's favor over Shocking Grasp is that wizards are more limited in their cantrip choices than they are in their 1st level spells. You start out with 3 cantrips known and max out at 5: kind of expensive to take Shocking Grasp for one given how little you're probably going to use it. By comparison, you start with six 1st level spells known and only go up from there, so getting Inflict Wounds, especially when it won't count against your limit of prepared spells, is much less of an investment.
All the other arguments you made against it still apply, of course.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't have third level spell slots yet, so maybe it will become less practical as I advance.
Sorry, I did explain that poorly.
The feat gives you a spell you're stuck with for the rest of the game. There's no changing it.
I'm saying that it's pretty well established that 3d10 is going to be mediocre damage at best after a few levels. It's not even that great at level 5.
But on top of that, it's not someting a Wizard in particular is ever going to want to spend a spell slot on, either to cast it more than once a day, or to up-cast it. There are better options for those slots.
So it's a once-a-day ability that's arguably better than a cantrip, maybe, in some cicumstances.
One thing I'll say in Inflict Wounds's favor over Shocking Grasp is that wizards are more limited in their cantrip choices than they are in their 1st level spells. You start out with 3 cantrips known and max out at 5: kind of expensive to take Shocking Grasp for one given how little you're probably going to use it. By comparison, you start with six 1st level spells known and only go up from there, so getting Inflict Wounds, especially when it won't count against your limit of prepared spells, is much less of an investment.
All the other arguments you made against it still apply, of course.
That is a very fair point.
(OMG, I have never played a wizard. Ever (not since maybe 2nd edition, if.. if EVER?). I ... I think I'd make room for Grasp in the right party (i.e. not tanky enough to stop 'em getting to me), but you're right, that's not really going to be a big earner).
Leave the single target damage dealing to the martial characters and the Agonizing Blast Warlocks. Spellcasters have other roles to fill in the party.
There will occasionally be some parties that are very light on the martial characters and need more single target damage from the spellcasters, but in most parties (especially in larger groups), you can focus on other things like multi target damage, buffs, debuffs, crowd control, etc. and let the martial characters do what they do best. It's much more fun to focus on what your character is best at doing, and to not try to step on the toes of the other characters that want to do what they're best at doing. Especially if you're not going to be anywhere as good as they are at it.
Versatility has always been a strength of the wizard. They might not be able to match the single-target damage of those other classes, but times when they need some sort of single-target offensive option are common enough to insure that it's not something they should completely neglect.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Leave the single target damage dealing to the martial characters and the Agonizing Blast Warlocks. Spellcasters have other roles to fill in the party.
I play an abjuration wizard. Inflict wounds gives me a no-slot single-use single-target damage weapon, so that I don't have to waste a prepared spell on one.
can variant human cast invisibility at level 1 if they pick this feat?
Yes.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
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Okay, I looked it up more carefully and the Find Familiar spell does state that when it delivers the spell it "Can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell", so I think that says pretty definitively, for the purposes of something like invisibility, that the Familiar is treated as though it had cast a spell and would thus no longer be invisible.
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But invisibility drops if you make an attack, and the familiar is making a melee spell attack.
Two different conversations, but I didn't do myself any favors by having both of them in the same reply.
EDIT: Due to the wording, I believe both the caster and the familiar would become visible in the rare case that both the caster and the familiar are invisible, and the caster uses the familiar to deliver a touch spell. But we're drifting into rules & game mechanics territory.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That's my problem with inflict wounds, though: if something is in your face, is a tiny bit more damage your priority?
I mean, it's not *bad*, but even at characer level 5 your Shocking Grasp would do, on average, only 6.5 damage less, and it removes their reaction, so you can move out of their melee range. 6.5 damage isn't nothing, but let's face it, it's pretty damn close to nothing. It only gets worse as you level up.
I just can't imagine burning spell slots on that difference.
Upcasting is worse. Scorching Ray alone is getting 2d6 per up-level, which is better on average than the 1d10 you get up-levelling Inflict Wounds, and it's way more versatile. I can't image many days I'd want to cast a 3rd level inflict wounds when I could lightning bolt some peeps or haste the fighter.
So it's one free cast of a spell that's sort of ok, and is maybe letting you get an extra 6.5 damage once per day - assuming you hit - at the cost of not removing their reaction, and being almost no difference at all in damage from level 11.
...I do not see that's really worth much of anything.
I'm confused. Inflict wounds does 16.5 average damage (at level 1) and shocking grasp (at character level 5) does 7 average damage. That 9.5 difference. Not 6.5
Err, fair, 16.5 for IF, but SG is 2d8, which is 9.
So 7.5 damage.
Whoops I did 2d6 by accident.
I don't have third level spell slots yet, so maybe it will become less practical as I advance.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sorry, I did explain that poorly.
The feat gives you a spell you're stuck with for the rest of the game. There's no changing it.
I'm saying that it's pretty well established that 3d10 is going to be mediocre damage at best after a few levels. It's not even that great at level 5.
But on top of that, it's not someting a Wizard in particular is ever going to want to spend a spell slot on, either to cast it more than once a day, or to up-cast it. There are better options for those slots.
So it's a once-a-day ability that's arguably better than a cantrip, maybe, in some cicumstances.
By comparison, Fey Touched gets Dissonant Whispers, which even if only cast once per day, is always useful, right into the endgame. Making something run away and suffer opportunity attacks is always going to be a good option to have up your sleeve. Another similar option is Command, which up-scales very nicely and has good out of combat utility. Gift of Alacrity is always going to be a great spell. And I'm not even going to suggest Silver Barbs, because that spell is bullshit.
Even in Shadow Touched, something like Disguise Self or Silent Image are both likey to be useful well into the levels, and are just the sort of spells that suck to have gunking up your memorisation list when you don't know you'll need them. Inflict Wounds, by comparison, is something you wouldn't want to have memorised from... level 5?
...but you can kinda see the difference, and why Fey Touched is liked more. FT's options just have more utility as you level up.
Shadow Touched is great for classes that won't get acccess to Invisibility and illusions, who can really get some work out of those two dailies. For pretty much anyone else, Fey Touched is just better.
I believe it is also the only level 1 necromancy spell a wizard cannot add to their spell book, which also made it appealing to me.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
And it is better than the other damage necro spell "ray of sickness"
I take it you are a necromancer wizard?
Ok great advice. Thank you for your help! :)
Just started a DDAL Bard, level 1.
Went Custom Lineage with the Fey Touched Feat to start. Took Bless as my second spell.
When you're stuck with only two spell slots, those two free extra spell usages are really nice. I cast Bless on my party, and used both my spell slots to raise two different teammates with Healing Word. In our encounters I stayed back spamming Vicious Mockery and handing out Inspiration Dice. I never got attacked, so I have not yet gotten to use Misty Step.
Going Eloquence Bard once I reach level 3.
One thing I'll say in Inflict Wounds's favor over Shocking Grasp is that wizards are more limited in their cantrip choices than they are in their 1st level spells. You start out with 3 cantrips known and max out at 5: kind of expensive to take Shocking Grasp for one given how little you're probably going to use it. By comparison, you start with six 1st level spells known and only go up from there, so getting Inflict Wounds, especially when it won't count against your limit of prepared spells, is much less of an investment.
All the other arguments you made against it still apply, of course.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That is a very fair point.
(OMG, I have never played a wizard. Ever (not since maybe 2nd edition, if.. if EVER?). I ... I think I'd make room for Grasp in the right party (i.e. not tanky enough to stop 'em getting to me), but you're right, that's not really going to be a big earner).
Leave the single target damage dealing to the martial characters and the Agonizing Blast Warlocks. Spellcasters have other roles to fill in the party.
There will occasionally be some parties that are very light on the martial characters and need more single target damage from the spellcasters, but in most parties (especially in larger groups), you can focus on other things like multi target damage, buffs, debuffs, crowd control, etc. and let the martial characters do what they do best. It's much more fun to focus on what your character is best at doing, and to not try to step on the toes of the other characters that want to do what they're best at doing. Especially if you're not going to be anywhere as good as they are at it.
Versatility has always been a strength of the wizard. They might not be able to match the single-target damage of those other classes, but times when they need some sort of single-target offensive option are common enough to insure that it's not something they should completely neglect.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I play an abjuration wizard. Inflict wounds gives me a no-slot single-use single-target damage weapon, so that I don't have to waste a prepared spell on one.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
can variant human cast invisibility at level 1 if they pick this feat?
Yes.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.