Just going to add that Invisibility does indeed lose value at higher levels as more and more enemies gain ways to see through it. It's nearly worthless at epic levels unless your DM is going out of the way to find enemies that can't detect you.
Both of these feats are really nice for Sorcerers who lack spell selection. Invisibility may not be great against the big boss at final encounter, but it's still useful even at higher levels for just getting around minions and lesser creatures.
Sorry mate but it doesn't require a cascade of general rules, just requires reading the plain text of the spell itself.
"Finally, when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its Reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an Attack roll, you use your Attack modifier for the roll."
The familiar uses its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it on your turn, so it doesn't have to already be in touch range.
Which means it’s already in attack range on your turn. Which means it moved there and ended its turn on a prior round. Which means the enemy or its allies have had ample opportunities to attack the AC 11 1 HP enemy in their face. Which means it’s already dead.
Which means it’s already in attack range on your turn. Which means it moved there and ended its turn on a prior round. Which means the enemy or its allies have had ample opportunities to attack the AC 11 1 HP enemy in their face. Which means it’s already dead.
The way around this is for the caster to hold his reaction and to cast the spell on the Familiar's turn. This is quite restrictive, because it means that the caster cannot be concentrating on another spell, because he must use his concentration to hold a spell until the Familiar's turn (and he has to use his reaction to do this). But if the caster is not doing this, then it means putting his familiar in harm's way for the time between his familiar's turn and his turn.
Using a familar to cast touch spells on the players turn can have a place.
If the enemy uses its action to destroy the familair this can be regarded as a "win" (for example if it prevents dominate creature being cast on one of the party), less of a gain for martial enemies who get multiple attacks
If the after the familiars turn the owners turn is before the enemies the spel should go through, although the familiar may be lost afterwards, this might be regarded as acceptable.
If: You have standard (non-Warlock) spell slots, and you have an odd main spell-casting ability score: Then Shadow or Fey Touched are a must have IMO.
Fey Touched gives you better spells, and if you're a class that does not have good teleport options then Fey becomes that much better. Being able to have Misty Step on something like a Bard is huge. You get:
Doesn't fey and shadow touch already give me an extra one, or do you mean i need another one on top of those?
Anyway, how’s this for the rest?:
Actor
Fey Touched
Shadow Touched
Telekinetic
Inspiring Leader
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces
Book of Ancient Secrets
Repelling Blast
Whispers of the Grave
Witch’s Sight
Visions of Distant Realms
+0 10
+2 14
+2 14
+0 10
+0 10
+5 20
am i suppose to even the final result or just the +? sorry, I’m still very new at this.
He was talking about how the feat gave the +1. I was looking at the two 15s that you had and was thinking that you should get one to be a 14 and the other a 16. As a ranged caster, I'd probably make constitution the 16, but there's benefits to having dex be the 16, such as increased initiative bonus.
If you've got tasha's and it's rules are being used, you can redirect the +1 to intelligence to either dex or constitution and then change the other 15 to a 14 and put the +2 into wisdom for better saves there.
Otherwise, it seems like an interesting level 20 build. I can't speak to the efficacy of some of the spells as I just haven't seen them in action. I would consider dropping Guiding Bolt for another option, at least during one of your level ups. It's damage (8d6 as a 5th level spell, 28 average damage) isn't anything spectacular and Eldritch Blast will be better as you level up (2 beams after 5th for 1d10+ charisma each, 16-18 average at 9th level when you get 5th slots. 3 beams at 11th for 26.5-30.5 average damage, and a 4th at 17 for 42 average damage). The advantage rider isn't bad, but I'd rather have something else eventually, unless you've got a rogue or a crit Fisher in your party.
Hex would be a better option if you want to keep it a 1st level spell. That 1d6 scales nicely with EB, bumping your damage by 3.5 average damage per beam (maxing at 14 extra damage on average) and with your Spell Sniper build, you'd be lethal at range and Repelling Blast would help to keep you that way. If your concentration isn't getting challenged, then you can easily get the 8d6 damage out of hex that you'd get out of guiding Bolt. Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke is likely a bit of melee range overkill, you could change one of those (or both) out instead if you like what Guiding Bolt is doing for you.
I think I'd rather start with a 17 charisma with this build, grab 3 of the half feats that give +1 charisma, spell Sniper, and Inspring Leader than start with 16 and need the 4 half feats.
Incidentally, the temp HP from Inspiring Leader and Armor of Agathys don't stack. You can cast AA after you use up your Temp HP from Inspiring Leader or ensure that you aren't one of the 6 if you've still got temp HP from AA (the damage only occurs if you've got temp HP from the spell.
When i build my character i cant get past 15 in point build. I have to basically cheat and say i rolled it. I guess i need to buy Tasha’s rules to do that? I’m just using a friend’s quest to make this, so I still could be missing a lot.
i read somewhere guiding bolt was really good early on. Should I at least keep it for before i gain my feats? (I think it was Arcane Eye.) admittedly, i cant find anyone to play with, but last group was a big one, so guiding bolt could help, or just with rogue?
i’m still having trouble understanding hex’s benefits knowing when an opponent is using what stat to cripple on their own concentration. I was going to use Fey Touched to get Hex so the earliest i can get it is level 4. Should I get it as early as possible?
what about Spell Snipper? Should that be next at 8 or when?
it sounds like my first set without the ability to disguise self early with actor. Is such a thing to gimmicky? I’m just basing it off playthroughs I’ve watched (Dungeon Dudes Shadows) where it seems to carry the team.
Lastly, what do you recommend I replace Inspiring Leader with? War Caster perhaps?
There is no correct build. Play what you think is fun. As you play What you like will be refined.
What a creature takes damage and is concentrating on a spell,They have to make a concentration saving throw. Hex only works on ability checks, which are different.
You are forgetting about racial bonuses. That is how you get a score above 15, when you are doing point buy.
Also don't cheat. It hurts you more than any other.
Ah ok than it evens out at max level and starts +2 being a Tiefling. Now i dont have to cheat! Not that I wanted to lol. Ok that helps some. Thank you.
Which means it’s already in attack range on your turn. Which means it moved there and ended its turn on a prior round. Which means the enemy or its allies have had ample opportunities to attack the AC 11 1 HP enemy in their face. Which means it’s already dead.
The other spell you get from this feat is Invisibility, remember? So cast Invisibility on your familiar beforehand, then send your invisible familiar off to cast Inflict Wounds on your foe, with Advantage!
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Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
Which means it’s already in attack range on your turn. Which means it moved there and ended its turn on a prior round. Which means the enemy or its allies have had ample opportunities to attack the AC 11 1 HP enemy in their face. Which means it’s already dead.
The other spell you get from this feat is Invisibility, remember? So cast Invisibility on your familiar beforehand, then send your invisible familiar off to cast Inflict Wounds on your foe, with Advantage!
That's possible, but it takes two turns, since both spells are full actions, and the familiar instantly becomes visible when it is used to attack. Actually now that I say that... You lose invisibility if you attack or cast a spell... Does that also apply to a familiar delivering a touch spell?
Guiding bolt is alright early on, I just don't like it on a warlock with their minimal spell slots. It's not as bad if you can ensure that your party takes regular short rests to make up for the small number of spell slots that you have available at any one time. Hex can give you more bang for your buck in that regard as you spread that extra damage around. You can move the hex to another creature using a bonus action if the creature that you originally cast it on dies. This does limit the amount of overkill that you might get from casting the spell. Hex is on the Warlock spell list, so you can start with the spell and then change it to another spell on the level that you will pick up fey touched, if you can't find another spell that you would like to have instead.
Athletics, acrobatics and stealth, and perception are among the most combat oriented ability checks meaning that Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom are all solid options. Constitution affects all concentration checks unless I'm misunderstanding and is solid against spellcasters. If it's going to be cast on a target outside of combat, then the need will be much more obvious if it needs to be a different type of check.
Spell Sniper and Actor are fairly character defining feats and I'd leave it to your judgement as to when to pick those up. War Caster is a nice feat and having something like Mind Sliver available to cast as your replacement spell for your OA is much better than a typical Warlock OA that is as ranged centric as your build seems to be. I'm not anticipating that you'll need to worry much about having to cast with your hands full, but the concentration angle is solid. It's worth noting that with Tasha's, you could pick up an invocation that covers that specific angle if you were willing to drop one of the other invocations that you've chosen.
That said, I'm a big fan of Inspiring Leader, especially when you are wanting to max charisma. It just adds a lot of temp HP, often about the same as an extra level's addition worth of hp, possibly more. I only mentioned it because of the way that Temp HP works: it doesn't stack. If I was playing the character, I'd probably either change Armor of Agathys or only use it as an emergency self "heal". I like Armor of Agathys better than Hellish Rebuke as a retributive spell, other than they use different types of actions. Still, if you like the flavor, go for it.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
Which means it’s already in attack range on your turn. Which means it moved there and ended its turn on a prior round. Which means the enemy or its allies have had ample opportunities to attack the AC 11 1 HP enemy in their face. Which means it’s already dead.
The other spell you get from this feat is Invisibility, remember? So cast Invisibility on your familiar beforehand, then send your invisible familiar off to cast Inflict Wounds on your foe, with Advantage!
That's possible, but it takes two turns, since both spells are full actions, and the familiar instantly becomes visible when it is used to attack. Actually now that I say that... You lose invisibility if you attack or cast a spell... Does that also apply to a familiar delivering a touch spell?
Invisibility lasts for up to an hour, so it's best to cast it well before combat if possible. I don't actually recommend using this combo in the middle of a fight.
As for the invisibility ending, I'm not sure? The familiar uses its reaction to deliver the spell, but the caster actually makes the roll using their own modifier. It seems like maybe it should end the Invisibility but by RAW it looks like it wouldn't. Color me confused by this one.
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Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
I remember somewhere it was said that it counts as you when it comes to attunement items. So I think it would break the invisibility if you cast a spell through it.
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Just going to add that Invisibility does indeed lose value at higher levels as more and more enemies gain ways to see through it. It's nearly worthless at epic levels unless your DM is going out of the way to find enemies that can't detect you.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Both of these feats are really nice for Sorcerers who lack spell selection. Invisibility may not be great against the big boss at final encounter, but it's still useful even at higher levels for just getting around minions and lesser creatures.
Sorry mate but it doesn't require a cascade of general rules, just requires reading the plain text of the spell itself.
"Finally, when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its Reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an Attack roll, you use your Attack modifier for the roll."
The familiar uses its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it on your turn, so it doesn't have to already be in touch range.
Which means it’s already in attack range on your turn. Which means it moved there and ended its turn on a prior round. Which means the enemy or its allies have had ample opportunities to attack the AC 11 1 HP enemy in their face. Which means it’s already dead.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The way around this is for the caster to hold his reaction and to cast the spell on the Familiar's turn. This is quite restrictive, because it means that the caster cannot be concentrating on another spell, because he must use his concentration to hold a spell until the Familiar's turn (and he has to use his reaction to do this). But if the caster is not doing this, then it means putting his familiar in harm's way for the time between his familiar's turn and his turn.
Using a familar to cast touch spells on the players turn can have a place.
Was going to pick disguise self instead then get actor at level 8. Is this not a good idea?
variant tiefling celestial warlock
Eldrich Blast
Minor Illusion
Prestidigitation
Mind Silver
…
Armor of Agathys
Guiding Bolt
Hellish Rebuke
Cloud of Daggers
Lesser Restoration +
Counterspell
Dispell Magic
Hypnotic Pattern
Revivify
Thunderstep
Banishment
Wall of Fire
Synaptic Static
Dream
Ebervation
Shadow Touched
Actor
Fey Touched
Spell Sniper
Inspiring Leader
Mass Suggestion
Forcecage
Dominate Monster
True Polymorph
Agonizing Blast
Repelling Blast
Book of Ancient Secrets
Trickster’s Escape
Whispers of the Grave
Witch’s Sight
Visions of Distant Realms
8 (8) -1
15 (15) +2
15 (15) +2
8 (9) -1
8 (8) -1
15 (20) +5
If: You have standard (non-Warlock) spell slots, and you have an odd main spell-casting ability score: Then Shadow or Fey Touched are a must have IMO.
Fey Touched gives you better spells, and if you're a class that does not have good teleport options then Fey becomes that much better. Being able to have Misty Step on something like a Bard is huge. You get:
+1 to your stat, evening it out
Functionally an additional 1st level spell slot
an additional 1st level spell known
Functionally an additional 2nd level spell slot
an additional 2nd level spell known
Doesn't fey and shadow touch already give me an extra one, or do you mean i need another one on top of those?
Anyway, how’s this for the rest?:
Actor
Fey Touched
Shadow Touched
Telekinetic
Inspiring Leader
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces
Book of Ancient Secrets
Repelling Blast
Whispers of the Grave
Witch’s Sight
Visions of Distant Realms
+0 10
+2 14
+2 14
+0 10
+0 10
+5 20
am i suppose to even the final result or just the +?
sorry, I’m still very new at this.
He was talking about how the feat gave the +1. I was looking at the two 15s that you had and was thinking that you should get one to be a 14 and the other a 16. As a ranged caster, I'd probably make constitution the 16, but there's benefits to having dex be the 16, such as increased initiative bonus.
If you've got tasha's and it's rules are being used, you can redirect the +1 to intelligence to either dex or constitution and then change the other 15 to a 14 and put the +2 into wisdom for better saves there.
Otherwise, it seems like an interesting level 20 build. I can't speak to the efficacy of some of the spells as I just haven't seen them in action. I would consider dropping Guiding Bolt for another option, at least during one of your level ups. It's damage (8d6 as a 5th level spell, 28 average damage) isn't anything spectacular and Eldritch Blast will be better as you level up (2 beams after 5th for 1d10+ charisma each, 16-18 average at 9th level when you get 5th slots. 3 beams at 11th for 26.5-30.5 average damage, and a 4th at 17 for 42 average damage). The advantage rider isn't bad, but I'd rather have something else eventually, unless you've got a rogue or a crit Fisher in your party.
Hex would be a better option if you want to keep it a 1st level spell. That 1d6 scales nicely with EB, bumping your damage by 3.5 average damage per beam (maxing at 14 extra damage on average) and with your Spell Sniper build, you'd be lethal at range and Repelling Blast would help to keep you that way. If your concentration isn't getting challenged, then you can easily get the 8d6 damage out of hex that you'd get out of guiding Bolt. Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke is likely a bit of melee range overkill, you could change one of those (or both) out instead if you like what Guiding Bolt is doing for you.
I think I'd rather start with a 17 charisma with this build, grab 3 of the half feats that give +1 charisma, spell Sniper, and Inspring Leader than start with 16 and need the 4 half feats.
Incidentally, the temp HP from Inspiring Leader and Armor of Agathys don't stack. You can cast AA after you use up your Temp HP from Inspiring Leader or ensure that you aren't one of the 6 if you've still got temp HP from AA (the damage only occurs if you've got temp HP from the spell.
thank you for clarifying :)
When i build my character i cant get past 15 in point build. I have to basically cheat and say i rolled it. I guess i need to buy Tasha’s rules to do that? I’m just using a friend’s quest to make this, so I still could be missing a lot.
i read somewhere guiding bolt was really good early on. Should I at least keep it for before i gain my feats? (I think it was Arcane Eye.) admittedly, i cant find anyone to play with, but last group was a big one, so guiding bolt could help, or just with rogue?
i’m still having trouble understanding hex’s benefits knowing when an opponent is using what stat to cripple on their own concentration. I was going to use Fey Touched to get Hex so the earliest i can get it is level 4. Should I get it as early as possible?
what about Spell Snipper? Should that be next at 8 or when?
it sounds like my first set without the ability to disguise self early with actor. Is such a thing to gimmicky? I’m just basing it off playthroughs I’ve watched (Dungeon Dudes Shadows) where it seems to carry the team.
Lastly, what do you recommend I replace Inspiring Leader with? War Caster perhaps?
There is no correct build. Play what you think is fun. As you play What you like will be refined.
What a creature takes damage and is concentrating on a spell,They have to make a concentration saving throw. Hex only works on ability checks, which are different.
You are forgetting about racial bonuses. That is how you get a score above 15, when you are doing point buy.
Also don't cheat. It hurts you more than any other.
Ah ok than it evens out at max level and starts +2 being a Tiefling. Now i dont have to cheat! Not that I wanted to lol. Ok that helps some. Thank you.
8, 15, 15
9, 8, 20
15 + 2 racial + 3 feats = 20
8 + 1 Racial = 9
FYI, You are in the wrong forum. There are beginner guides forums that can help you out
The other spell you get from this feat is Invisibility, remember? So cast Invisibility on your familiar beforehand, then send your invisible familiar off to cast Inflict Wounds on your foe, with Advantage!
Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
That's possible, but it takes two turns, since both spells are full actions, and the familiar instantly becomes visible when it is used to attack. Actually now that I say that... You lose invisibility if you attack or cast a spell... Does that also apply to a familiar delivering a touch spell?
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Guiding bolt is alright early on, I just don't like it on a warlock with their minimal spell slots. It's not as bad if you can ensure that your party takes regular short rests to make up for the small number of spell slots that you have available at any one time. Hex can give you more bang for your buck in that regard as you spread that extra damage around. You can move the hex to another creature using a bonus action if the creature that you originally cast it on dies. This does limit the amount of overkill that you might get from casting the spell. Hex is on the Warlock spell list, so you can start with the spell and then change it to another spell on the level that you will pick up fey touched, if you can't find another spell that you would like to have instead.
Athletics, acrobatics and stealth, and perception are among the most combat oriented ability checks meaning that Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom are all solid options. Constitution affects all concentration checks unless I'm misunderstanding and is solid against spellcasters. If it's going to be cast on a target outside of combat, then the need will be much more obvious if it needs to be a different type of check.
Spell Sniper and Actor are fairly character defining feats and I'd leave it to your judgement as to when to pick those up. War Caster is a nice feat and having something like Mind Sliver available to cast as your replacement spell for your OA is much better than a typical Warlock OA that is as ranged centric as your build seems to be. I'm not anticipating that you'll need to worry much about having to cast with your hands full, but the concentration angle is solid. It's worth noting that with Tasha's, you could pick up an invocation that covers that specific angle if you were willing to drop one of the other invocations that you've chosen.
That said, I'm a big fan of Inspiring Leader, especially when you are wanting to max charisma. It just adds a lot of temp HP, often about the same as an extra level's addition worth of hp, possibly more. I only mentioned it because of the way that Temp HP works: it doesn't stack. If I was playing the character, I'd probably either change Armor of Agathys or only use it as an emergency self "heal". I like Armor of Agathys better than Hellish Rebuke as a retributive spell, other than they use different types of actions. Still, if you like the flavor, go for it.
My wizard who has this feat also took inflict wounds as his "get out of my face" spell. One of the big perks of this feat for him is the fact that he now doesn't have to prepare invisibility or inflict wounds, and they are always ready, freeing him to prepare other spells instead. The fact that he can cast them using spell slots is just an added bonus.
Hmm, I don't think so, since the familiar is not casting the spell--you are.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Invisibility lasts for up to an hour, so it's best to cast it well before combat if possible. I don't actually recommend using this combo in the middle of a fight.
As for the invisibility ending, I'm not sure? The familiar uses its reaction to deliver the spell, but the caster actually makes the roll using their own modifier. It seems like maybe it should end the Invisibility but by RAW it looks like it wouldn't. Color me confused by this one.
Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
I remember somewhere it was said that it counts as you when it comes to attunement items. So I think it would break the invisibility if you cast a spell through it.