Since we're really biting down into the wording, there is a specific reason why you can't actually excavate a 5 x 5 cube from the ground:
You choose a portion of dirt or stone that you can see
You cannot see the dirt beneath the ground. You can only move the dirt that is visible to you at the time the spell was cast, and there is no possible way to interpret that that includes dirt which is 4-5 foot below the ground, well out of your sight. So actually, RAW you can only move the dirt lying on top of the ground.
Technically if you could see an ant farm type setup, you could move more dirt than just the topsoil.
You choose a portion of dirt or stone that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
If you target an area of loose earth, you can instantaneously excavate it, move it along the ground, and deposit it up to 5 feet away. This movement doesn’t involve enough force to cause damage.
You’d only have to see the top portion of the 5ft cube you wish to excavate.
You choose a portion of dirt or stone that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
If you target an area of loose earth, you can instantaneously excavate it, move it along the ground, and deposit it up to 5 feet away. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage.
If it doesn't have enough force to cause damage, it doesn't have enough force to push a creature out of the way either. Using it to shunt creatures around would clearly be an abuse of the spell's intention and cannot work RAW. You can tell this because if there was a creature with their back to the wall, pushing with enough force to move them would crush them against the wall, causing damage. What will happen is that that dirt/stone either stops when it contacts a creature that doesn't want to move, or might split apart and fall loosely around their feet
You can already spend your action to push/shove someone. I would allow you to do the same with the cantrip if the circumstances are right. I would ask for an Arcana vs Athletic/Acrobatic check. I would also make it clear that this is a houserule and that i keep the right to change my mind if i get the feeling that it is unbalanced.
Since we're really biting down into the wording, there is a specific reason why you can't actually excavate a 5 x 5 cube from the ground:
You choose a portion of dirt or stone that you can see
You cannot see the dirt beneath the ground. You can only move the dirt that is visible to you at the time the spell was cast, and there is no possible way to interpret that that includes dirt which is 4-5 foot below the ground, well out of your sight. So actually, RAW you can only move the dirt lying on top of the ground.
Technically if you could see an ant farm type setup, you could move more dirt than just the topsoil.
I mean RAW that does kind of make sense. But technically you can only see a grain or two of depth so RAI it doesn't make much sense to only limit it to actual sight.
I think I'd interpret it as allowing you to excavate dirt from a location you can see rather than just the dirt you can see.
Also note that the size of mold earth and shape water is what can fit in a 5' cube, not just limited to the shape of a 5' cube, so you could freeze a 50' long 2.5' wide and 1' thick ice bridge across a body of water.
As long as we're raining on parades, this is a very liberal take on shape water that will not fly at all tables. You could rule that once the water no longer fits in that 5-foot cube, the spell no longer has an effect on it. It's pretty clear that the design intent is to keep the scope of these spells within one square on a grid.
I think you're probably right. Looking more closely at the language it says "You choose an AREA of water that you can see "within range" AND that fits within a 5-foot cube". So first that bridge would be out of range (unless you're standing in the middle of it I suppose) and second the area has to fit within a 5' cube.
You could build the bridge out from a starting point, and keep building it out 5ft every 6 seconds from the previous ice step, kinda like when Elso ran onto the lake in Frozen. I've never had a Dm say u flat out couldn't do that, though depending on how fast and warm the water is, it might not last for long and the ice would probably take an Acrobatics check to avoid slipping on.
You could build the bridge out from a starting point, and keep building it out 5ft every 6 seconds from the previous ice step, kinda like when Elso ran onto the lake in Frozen. I've never had a Dm say u flat out couldn't do that, though depending on how fast and warm the water is, it might not last for long and the ice would probably take an Acrobatics check to avoid slipping on.
It also says you can't have more than 2 of its non instantaneous effects active at a time. So I suppose you could freeze a block and move onto the next one, but that would only work if the body of water wasn't more than 5' deep.
You could build the bridge out from a starting point, and keep building it out 5ft every 6 seconds from the previous ice step, kinda like when Elso ran onto the lake in Frozen. I've never had a Dm say u flat out couldn't do that, though depending on how fast and warm the water is, it might not last for long and the ice would probably take an Acrobatics check to avoid slipping on.
It also says you can't have more than 2 of its non instantaneous effects active at a time. So I suppose you could freeze a block and move onto the next one, but that would only work if the body of water wasn't more than 5' deep.
: Doublechecks : Dang, it does say that, so does that mean if you activate a 3rd ice block the first spontaneously melts? Or does it begin the process of melting and would therefore take time to fully melt? Wait it say non-instantaneous effects active, so wouldn’t that would mean you could build an ice bridge because freezing it would be an instantaneous effect, it’s not like when you’re moving the water and you’ve gotta pay attention to it, it even says each ice block lasts an hour so it wouldn’t really be active would it? But it doesn’t say strictly that it’s instantaneous… it would most likely come down to if the DM would rule the freezing is an instantaneous effect or not. RAW it wouldn’t be, but it seems to imply that they last an hour without any input hmmmm, think the developers might need to clarify…..
Either way you could use shape water to walk across a pond or a lake that’s relatively still by freezing the water ahead of you and letting the one behind you dissipate, but anything with decent movement or flow like a river or a choppy lake would give you issues. Though in the case of a river, a rope on the far side and an ice flow could get you across, though you’d probably swing like a pendulum down the river till you hit the other side. For anything else…one caster with shape water to make and maintain the ice boat and another with gust or shape water for propulsion?
You choose a portion of dirt or stone that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
You’d only have to see the top portion of the 5ft cube you wish to excavate.
You can already spend your action to push/shove someone. I would allow you to do the same with the cantrip if the circumstances are right. I would ask for an Arcana vs Athletic/Acrobatic check. I would also make it clear that this is a houserule and that i keep the right to change my mind if i get the feeling that it is unbalanced.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]I mean RAW that does kind of make sense. But technically you can only see a grain or two of depth so RAI it doesn't make much sense to only limit it to actual sight.
I think I'd interpret it as allowing you to excavate dirt from a location you can see rather than just the dirt you can see.
I think you're probably right. Looking more closely at the language it says "You choose an AREA of water that you can see "within range" AND that fits within a 5-foot cube". So first that bridge would be out of range (unless you're standing in the middle of it I suppose) and second the area has to fit within a 5' cube.
You could build the bridge out from a starting point, and keep building it out 5ft every 6 seconds from the previous ice step, kinda like when Elso ran onto the lake in Frozen. I've never had a Dm say u flat out couldn't do that, though depending on how fast and warm the water is, it might not last for long and the ice would probably take an Acrobatics check to avoid slipping on.
It also says you can't have more than 2 of its non instantaneous effects active at a time. So I suppose you could freeze a block and move onto the next one, but that would only work if the body of water wasn't more than 5' deep.
: Doublechecks : Dang, it does say that, so does that mean if you activate a 3rd ice block the first spontaneously melts? Or does it begin the process of melting and would therefore take time to fully melt? Wait it say non-instantaneous effects active, so wouldn’t that would mean you could build an ice bridge because freezing it would be an instantaneous effect, it’s not like when you’re moving the water and you’ve gotta pay attention to it, it even says each ice block lasts an hour so it wouldn’t really be active would it? But it doesn’t say strictly that it’s instantaneous… it would most likely come down to if the DM would rule the freezing is an instantaneous effect or not. RAW it wouldn’t be, but it seems to imply that they last an hour without any input hmmmm, think the developers might need to clarify…..
Either way you could use shape water to walk across a pond or a lake that’s relatively still by freezing the water ahead of you and letting the one behind you dissipate, but anything with decent movement or flow like a river or a choppy lake would give you issues. Though in the case of a river, a rope on the far side and an ice flow could get you across, though you’d probably swing like a pendulum down the river till you hit the other side. For anything else…one caster with shape water to make and maintain the ice boat and another with gust or shape water for propulsion?