Never thought of Hexblade before I do have a lovehate relationship with that subclass, it ruins a lot of friendship. The Hexblade do give off the fantasy of a small girl using a oversized weapons to attack the enemies, Huh I though Rouges would be a useless subclass since you need a weapon that makes you deal sneak attack, I would like to see a bit of a breakdown on building a Fighter/Rouge, like do use it for sneak attack benefits or i mostly use it for their features?
I could go Eldritch Knight, it just that Eldritch Knight might have a few problems regarding to the subclass.
@ArntItheBest Ah thank you, this combo sounds awesome! never thought of that before. So should i go more fighter or more barbarian? both subclass offers some nice stuff for my character (also lets try not to multi quote each other until its full i don't like scrolling down and up)
@ArntItheBest Ah thank you, this combo sounds awesome! never thought of that before. So should i go more fighter or more barbarian? both subclass offers some nice stuff for my character (also lets try not to multi quote each other until its full i don't like scrolling down and up)
Here's what I would recommend if you're going EchoKnight/Ancestral Guardian...
Start as a fighter, and gain 5 levels to get Multi-attack, and if you're a variant human then you can get both of your primary feats by level 4. Then switch to Barbarian for 3 Levels to get Ancestral Guardian... the only feature from Ancestral Guardian you really need is the level 3 feature, and you want to stick with mostly Fighter because it gives you more ASIs, so you can round out your stats better since you've spent two feats already.
Just keep in mind that summoning your Echo and Raging are both Bonus Actions. Luckily you can summon the echo out of combat and it will last perpetually. You won't be relying on Rage as much as a full Barbarian, so you only will ever get 3 uses in a day, but it's rare to have more than 3 serious combats in most adventuring days, and even if you aren't able to trigger rage in combat for one reason or another you're still a fully equipped fighter.
Rune Knight has magic-like effects, but doesn't on the surface give off the cute girl with oversized weapon vibe... BUT... I can see you make your character tiny in her normal form... enemies laugh because the weapon looks too big for you to handle, then you're like "RAAAAAAAHHHHH" and suddenly you're towering over them.
[...]
@OP: Not optimal at all and you wouldn't be able to get the V Human feat from it but this would be HILARIOUS thematically if you are of the new Fairy race, making you a small-sized fairy magical girl who grows to LARGE size as a Rune Knight to wreck faces and who STARTS at level 1 with Flight and Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself even smaller or bigger as needed. Heck, nothing stops you from using Giant's Might first and THEN casting Enlarge on yourself to grow to HUGE size. I can't help laughing when I imagine a HUGE (15 x 15, 9 squares!) winged fairy dressed like a magical girl wielding a giant scythe who then proceeds to get uber pissed at all the poor souls nearby who, out of shock, look up at her and she throws a giant tantrum due to all the "perverts looking up her skirt" mouhahahahaha.
Obviously, you wouldn't be able to use a Glaive while you are tiny small though without suffering disadvantage UNLESS your DM let's you simply use the spear's stats reflavored as a "giant scythe" fit for a small character which you could wield in two hands (versatile) but then you'd lose the reach advantage on it (not that it matters immensely if you are already large/huge).
Edit 1: Big con on the fairy flight though, it doesn't work if you are wearing medium or heavy armor... Bummer!
Edit 2: A fairy starts at "Small" size and not "Tiny". Corrected.
Rune Knight has magic-like effects, but doesn't on the surface give off the cute girl with oversized weapon vibe... BUT... I can see you make your character tiny in her normal form... enemies laugh because the weapon looks too big for you to handle, then you're like "RAAAAAAAHHHHH" and suddenly you're towering over them.
[...]
@OP: Not optimal at all and you wouldn't be able to get the V Human feat from it but this would be HILARIOUS thematically if you are of the new Fairy race, making you a small-sized fairy magical girl who grows to LARGE size as a Rune Knight to wreck faces and who STARTS at level 1 with Flight and Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself even smaller or bigger as needed. Heck, nothing stops you from using Giant's Might first and THEN casting Enlarge on yourself to grow to HUGE size. I can't help laughing when I imagine a HUGE (15 x 15, 9 squares!) winged fairy dressed like a magical girl wielding a giant scythe who then proceeds to get uber pissed at all the poor sools nearby who, out of shock, look up at her and she throws a giant tantrum due to all the "perverts looking up her skirt" mouhahahahaha.
Obviously, you wouldn't be able to use a Glaive while you are tiny though without suffering disadvantage UNLESS your DM let's you simply use the spear's stats reflavored as a "giant scythe" fit for a small character which you could wield in two hands (versatile) but then you'd lose the reach advantage on it (not that it matters immensely if you are already large/huge).
Edit: Big con on the fairy flight though, it doesn't work if you are wearing medium or heavy armor... Bummer!
It gets better. While this is a late-game feature, an 18th Rune Knight can become Huge-sized. So imagine becoming Huge, THEN casting Enlarge to become GARGANTUAN! A FREAKING 20X20 FAIRY!
Can I steal this idea for a future one-shot? Become Ant-man?
Rune Knight has magic-like effects, but doesn't on the surface give off the cute girl with oversized weapon vibe... BUT... I can see you make your character tiny in her normal form... enemies laugh because the weapon looks too big for you to handle, then you're like "RAAAAAAAHHHHH" and suddenly you're towering over them.
[...]
@OP: Not optimal at all and you wouldn't be able to get the V Human feat from it but this would be HILARIOUS thematically if you are of the new Fairy race, making you a small-sized fairy magical girl who grows to LARGE size as a Rune Knight to wreck faces and who STARTS at level 1 with Flight and Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself even smaller or bigger as needed. Heck, nothing stops you from using Giant's Might first and THEN casting Enlarge on yourself to grow to HUGE size. I can't help laughing when I imagine a HUGE (15 x 15, 9 squares!) winged fairy dressed like a magical girl wielding a giant scythe who then proceeds to get uber pissed at all the poor sools nearby who, out of shock, look up at her and she throws a giant tantrum due to all the "perverts looking up her skirt" mouhahahahaha.
Obviously, you wouldn't be able to use a Glaive while you are tiny though without suffering disadvantage UNLESS your DM let's you simply use the spear's stats reflavored as a "giant scythe" fit for a small character which you could wield in two hands (versatile) but then you'd lose the reach advantage on it (not that it matters immensely if you are already large/huge).
Edit: Big con on the fairy flight though, it doesn't work if you are wearing medium or heavy armor... Bummer!
It gets better. While this is a late-game feature, an 18th Rune Knight can become Huge-sized. So imagine becoming Huge, THEN casting Enlarge to become GARGANTUAN! A FREAKING 20X20 FAIRY!
Can I steal this idea for a future one-shot? Become Ant-man?
Pouhahahaha, love it, go ahead and let me know how it goes!
Rune Knight has magic-like effects, but doesn't on the surface give off the cute girl with oversized weapon vibe... BUT... I can see you make your character tinyin her normal form... enemies laugh because the weapon looks too big for you to handle, then you're like "RAAAAAAAHHHHH" and suddenly you're towering over them.
[...]
@OP: Not optimal at all and you wouldn't be able to get the V Human feat from it but this would be HILARIOUS thematically if you are of the new Fairy race, making you a small-sized fairy magical girl who grows to LARGE size as a Rune Knight to wreck faces and who STARTS at level 1 with Flight and Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself even smaller or bigger as needed. Heck, nothing stops you from using Giant's Might first and THEN casting Enlarge on yourself to grow to HUGE size. I can't help laughing when I imagine a HUGE (15 x 15, 9 squares!) winged fairy dressed like a magical girl wielding a giant scythe who then proceeds to get uber pissed at all the poor sools nearby who, out of shock, look up at her and she throws a giant tantrum due to all the "perverts looking up her skirt" mouhahahahaha.
Obviously, you wouldn't be able to use a Glaive while you are tiny though without suffering disadvantage UNLESS your DM let's you simply use the spear's stats reflavored as a "giant scythe" fit for a small character which you could wield in two hands (versatile) but then you'd lose the reach advantage on it (not that it matters immensely if you are already large/huge).
Edit: Big con on the fairy flight though, it doesn't work if you are wearing medium or heavy armor... Bummer!
When I said "tiny" in my post I using the word colloquially. Anything smaller than medium and the glaive would be at disadvantage until she grows. That's a funny idea, though :)
When I said "tiny" in my post I using the word colloquially. Anything smaller than medium and the glaive would be at disadvantage until she grows. That's a funny idea, though :)
Oh I know, don't worry. When I said "not optimal at all", what I meant was that the idea I proposed (idea which your post gave me, hence the quote) was not optimal. Your suggestion was perfectly valid. Sorry for the confusion!
But yeah, I couldn't help from giggling to myself when I thought of that XD
A nice build with this would be 7 lvl Oath of vengeance paladin with 3+ lvl in hexblade warlock.
Relentless Avenger 7th level
By 7th level, your supernatural focus helps you close off a foe’s retreat. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
@ArntItheBest Ah thank you, this combo sounds awesome! never thought of that before. So should i go more fighter or more barbarian? both subclass offers some nice stuff for my character (also lets try not to multi quote each other until its full i don't like scrolling down and up)
Here's what I would recommend if you're going EchoKnight/Ancestral Guardian...
Start as a fighter, and gain 5 levels to get Multi-attack, and if you're a variant human then you can get both of your primary feats by level 4. Then switch to Barbarian for 3 Levels to get Ancestral Guardian... the only feature from Ancestral Guardian you really need is the level 3 feature, and you want to stick with mostly Fighter because it gives you more ASIs, so you can round out your stats better since you've spent two feats already.
Just keep in mind that summoning your Echo and Raging are both Bonus Actions. Luckily you can summon the echo out of combat and it will last perpetually. You won't be relying on Rage as much as a full Barbarian, so you only will ever get 3 uses in a day, but it's rare to have more than 3 serious combats in most adventuring days, and even if you aren't able to trigger rage in combat for one reason or another you're still a fully equipped fighter.
Aye thanks for the character breakdown, I was debating weather to go Fighter or Barbarian. I do like Barbarian's spirit shield that reduces the damage. having a extra ASI would benefit my build!
Rune Knight has magic-like effects, but doesn't on the surface give off the cute girl with oversized weapon vibe... BUT... I can see you make your character tiny in her normal form... enemies laugh because the weapon looks too big for you to handle, then you're like "RAAAAAAAHHHHH" and suddenly you're towering over them.
[...]
@OP: Not optimal at all and you wouldn't be able to get the V Human feat from it but this would be HILARIOUS thematically if you are of the new Fairy race, making you a small-sized fairy magical girl who grows to LARGE size as a Rune Knight to wreck faces and who STARTS at level 1 with Flight and Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself even smaller or bigger as needed. Heck, nothing stops you from using Giant's Might first and THEN casting Enlarge on yourself to grow to HUGE size. I can't help laughing when I imagine a HUGE (15 x 15, 9 squares!) winged fairy dressed like a magical girl wielding a giant scythe who then proceeds to get uber pissed at all the poor souls nearby who, out of shock, look up at her and she throws a giant tantrum due to all the "perverts looking up her skirt" mouhahahahaha.
Obviously, you wouldn't be able to use a Glaive while you are tiny small though without suffering disadvantage UNLESS your DM let's you simply use the spear's stats reflavored as a "giant scythe" fit for a small character which you could wield in two hands (versatile) but then you'd lose the reach advantage on it (not that it matters immensely if you are already large/huge).
Edit 1: Big con on the fairy flight though, it doesn't work if you are wearing medium or heavy armor... Bummer!
Edit 2: A fairy starts at "Small" size and not "Tiny". Corrected.
Are you referring to me or someone else? I don't know why but this reminds me of a certain Touhou Project character, not sure if your weeb enough to know this. I might consider Rune Knight for this, not the concept I'm looking for there.
@Wasabii: Kind of both, I was proposing a fun idea that popped into my head by reading the quoted post which also seemed to fit with your concept thematically anyway. I have never heard of Touhou Project before but a quick google search led me to this character so I assume that's who your talking about?
Anyway, Rune Knight is a really fun control/tanky class with tons of utility and becoming Large size and later Huge with +5 foot reach (or even Gargantuan if you find someway to integrate the Enlarge/Reduce spell in your repertoire) would make this a ton of fun. Echo Knight is also nice of course, but I feel like the Rune Knight would be more "magical girl" compatible due to the runes and their effects. A straight up 20 Rune Knight is already pretty devastating but there are other good breakpoints in the class if you wanna multiclass into something else. I made a Rune Knight 17/Grave Cleric 3 Grappler build recently, I have yet to play it but it looks like a ton of fun.
For RK breakpoints, you could do any of a 17/3, 18/2, 19/1, 15/5, 12/8 or 11/9 split are all valid but personally, I would NEVER go under level 12 RK for the fighter's 3rd attack and that ASI you miss out on otherwise.
The RK's biggest flaw IMO is its lack of spells or ways to deal with casters outside of tossing a javelin and hoping they fail their saves against your Fire Rune which isn't sustainable. Shoring up that weakness through Cleric 2nd lvl spells (silence more specifically) was my main goal.
A few good options to consider to multiclass into which also fits more into the "magical girl" feel you mention would be Cleric (Grave as mentioned, Twilight, Peace, Forge and debatedly War due its heavier reliance on your WIS score are all decent enough choices, bonus points for Forge and Twilight for heavy armor prof that would let you start as a cleric at level 1 to get both that AND prof in Wis saves) and Wizard (Chronurgy and War Magic are both great options). I haven't looked into it too much but I heard that Druid and Ranger could also work well with it. Either way, I personally would not consider anything more then a 1 to 5 level dip in another class (and ideally no more then 3 to pick it up BEFORE level 20) if you do go RK due to the Master of Runes ability which lets you use each rune twice per short rest instead of just once and is a game changer IMO.
Either way, Barbarian is a bit redundant with the RK if you do go that route due to the Hill Rune they can pick up at level 7 which also lets them get resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage for 1 minute. Barbarian would really be a better fit with something like an Echo Knight and you can't rely on heavy armor if you want to rage. The Hill Rune is a bit more limited in usage then rage though since its once/short rest at first, but you also can keep using spells if you wanna multiclass into a spellcasting class and you got a fantastic defensive option for the party through Runic Shield, forcing an enemy to reroll and possibly negating a lethal crit which gives you another use for your reaction that you can use a number of times equal to your PB/long rest.
I'm a BIG FAN of the Rune Knight if it isn't immediately obvious. Whichever way you choose, good luck with your character and have fun!
Edit: Just reread your original post, specifically the part about darting in and ou and you could probably pick up the fey touched half feat for the amazing misty step that you could cast with your own spell slots as well if you ever get any later on. It's a pretty good utility/mobility spell. You also get your pick of any 1st lvl divination/enchantment spells, notable mentions that you could get a good mileage out of include bless, bane, hunter's mark or my personal favorite with my grappler build, hex!
One of the reasons I recommended Echo Knight over Ancestral Guardian is because the Echo Knight gets a similar feature at level 10, which lets you use the Echo to completely absorb one attack. It's not something you can use round-after-round like with Spirit Shield, but you've already got a LOT of features competing for your Reaction, so I think it still works to have one Big damage reduction option instead of dozens of small ones. But like I said, the main reason is the ASI's. For an Echo Knight fighter to really shine you're going to want to beef up both your STR and CON, especially since your CON directly ties into a lot of your abilities, and you're also still going to want decent DEX or potentially keep up some of your other stats to keep you more well-rounded.
Agreed with the notes above re: Fighter / Barbarian split... I'd suggest sticking to Barbarian 3, and the rest Fighter... although when I multiclass with Barbarian, I always go Barbarian as my second level... getting Rage is just too much of a character defining trait. Yes, you put off your second attack by a level, but so what? Sometimes, your character takes precedence over optimization. So
@Wasabii: I agree with most of what Bishop's said, delaying extra attack for one level is not a huge deal, even less so if you pick up PAM as your Variant Human feat. However, if you want to be online by level 10, you can't accomplish that with anything more then a single level of multiclassing in most cases, 2 levels at most no matter what your build is. Keep in mind that Multiclassing is considered an optional rule and the game, monsters and classes are all balanced around the assumption that most characters will get significant power bumps at levels 5 and 11 respectively. Delaying the features you get at these levels by more then a single level is usually not worth it.
What helped me alot when trying to figure out class progression was to compare what I give up between a straight-up class and a multiclass. In your case, keep in mind what you're giving up and your overall progression which is even more important if you're starting at level 1 and want to be online ASAP.
As a pure Fighter instead, you would obviously not get the Primal Path and Rage features (the latter which you can't do in heavy armor anyway) but you would also:
Get your Action Surge and initial subclass features one level earlier (2 vs 3) which are defining features no matter which subclass you end up picking
Get your first ASI (Sentinel or STR +2 most likely) one level earlier (4 vs 5)
Get your first extra attack one level earlier (5 vs 6) and your second extra attack 3 levels earlier (11 vs 14)
Get all your other ASIs a whole 3 levels earlier (6 vs 9, 8 vs 11, 12 vs 15, 14 vs 17 and 16 vs 19)
Get all your other subclass features a whole 3 levels earlier as well, the 7th level and 10th level features for the Echo Knight (and the RK for that matter) are both very good
Actually be able to obtain the level 18 class feature which is amazing. You are giving it up if you multiclass more then 2 levels anywhere
Get a 7th ASI at level 19 which you can use to bring your CON up to 20 or pick up an extra feat
This also gives you the option of making a DEX build instead since you're not forced to have 13 STR due to the Barbarian's multiclass requirements.
As much as I love multiclassing, it kind of sucks to do so when you start at a lower level. Its much easier when you already start at levels 10-15 where you don't have to deal with the slower progression for your character's whole career. This is why many people favor 1-2 level dips at most and will often not pick up the 2nd level until they have acquired all the main abilities they want from their main class which is usually past level 11-12. If you REALLY want to be a barbarian, personally, I would not pick up more then a single level unless you really want Reckless Attack and I would not pick up a 3rd level until level 12+ if at all.
This is my opinion obviously, do with it what you will but most of all, have fun!
For a non-fighter class build that would be compatible with your concept and efficient, consider a single-classed Hexblade Warlock with Pact of the Blade and the Improved Pact Weapon invocation. Decent crit-fishing potential once/short rest through Hexblade's curse, everything based on CHA allowing you to focus on CHA/CON and ditch pretty much everything else, compatible with your Scythe-wielding magical girl as soon as level 3, decent spell selection, the Shield and Armor of Agathys spells which are amazing on a melee character, the ability to unload Eldritch Smite if you pick it up at level 5 after confirming a hit (or crit!) similar to the Paladin's Divine Smite but scales higher and also knocks prone, also compatible with PAM and Sentinel, an amazing amount of customization options through their invocations.
With point-buy, you could start with: 8/14/15/8/10/15, put your two +1s into CON/CHA for 16 and pick-up PAM. Notable class progression features:
Hex 1: Hexblade's Curse + Hex Warrior -> Prof in medium armor and martial weapons + Use CHA for attacks on one-handed weapons for now + 19-20 crit and + PB to dmg once/short rest Hex 2: Invocations Hex 3: Pact of the Blade + Retrain one invocation into Improved Pact Weapon -> Can now use a 2-handed Scythe Hex 4: Sentinel or CHA+2 Hex 5: Pick up Thirsting Blade for an extra attack (3 in total with PAM) and optionally retrain your 3rd invocation into Eldritch Smite Hex 7: 4th level spells + 4th invocation Hex 8: Sentinel or CHA+2 (CHA 18) Hex 10: Armor of Hexes which will make you very hard to hit Hex 11: Mystic Arcanum (6th level) + your 3rd short rest spell slot (FINALLY!) Hex 12: CHA+2 (CHA 20) + 6th invocation -> Lifedrinker! This makes your hex weapon (Scythe) deal + CHAx2 (+10) damage on every hit instead of just +CHA!
At this point, your build is completely online and everything else you add after this is just a bonus and you still have 3 invocations free for whatever you choose if you pick my recommendations (Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite) and 2 more to pick up during your career! I'd probably go up to 14 at this point for Master of Hexes though so you can move your Hexblade's Curse around and keep it up throughout an entire encounter.
You could also multiclass 3 to 6 levels into Sorcerer or Bard easily without any difficulty if you want access to more spells/spell slots. Paladin is also a possibility to double-dip into Smites and go Nova when you crit. If you want to consider Paladin though, you'd have to modify your starting stats accordingly since you need STR 13 for that. Heck, you could even grab up to 6 levels of Fighter if you REALLY wanted to but it'd be a bit redundant at this point.
For a non-fighter class build that would be compatible with your concept and efficient, consider a single-classed Hexblade Warlock with Pact of the Blade and the Improved Pact Weapon invocation. Decent crit-fishing potential once/short rest through Hexblade's curse, everything based on CHA allowing you to focus on CHA/CON and ditch pretty much everything else, compatible with your Scythe-wielding magical girl as soon as level 3, decent spell selection, the Shield and Armor of Agathys spells which are amazing on a melee character, the ability to unload Eldritch Smite if you pick it up at level 5 after confirming a hit (or crit!) similar to the Paladin's Divine Smite but scales higher and also knocks prone, also compatible with PAM and Sentinel, an amazing amount of customization options through their invocations.
With point-buy, you could start with: 8/14/15/8/10/15, put your two +1s into CON/CHA for 16 and pick-up PAM. Notable class progression features:
Hex 1: Hexblade's Curse + Hex Warrior -> Prof in medium armor and martial weapons + Use CHA for attacks on one-handed weapons for now + 19-20 crit and + PB to dmg once/short rest Hex 2: Invocations Hex 3: Pact of the Blade + Retrain one invocation into Improved Pact Weapon -> Can now use a 2-handed Scythe Hex 4: Sentinel or CHA+2 Hex 5: Pick up Thirsting Blade for an extra attack (3 in total with PAM) and optionally retrain your 3rd invocation into Eldritch Smite Hex 7: 4th level spells + 4th invocation Hex 8: Sentinel or CHA+2 (CHA 18) Hex 10: Armor of Hexes which will make you very hard to hit Hex 11: Mystic Arcanum (6th level) + your 3rd short rest spell slot (FINALLY!) Hex 12: CHA+2 (CHA 20) + 6th invocation -> Lifedrinker! This makes your hex weapon (Scythe) deal + CHAx2 (+10) damage on every hit instead of just +CHA!
At this point, your build is completely online and everything else you add after this is just a bonus and you still have 3 invocations free for whatever you choose if you pick my recommendations (Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite) and 2 more to pick up during your career! I'd probably go up to 14 at this point for Master of Hexes though so you can move your Hexblade's Curse around and keep it up throughout an entire encounter.
You could also multiclass 3 to 6 levels into Sorcerer or Bard easily without any difficulty if you want access to more spells/spell slots. Paladin is also a possibility to double-dip into Smites and go Nova when you crit. If you want to consider Paladin though, you'd have to modify your starting stats accordingly since you need STR 13 for that. Heck, you could even grab up to 6 levels of Fighter if you REALLY wanted to but it'd be a bit redundant at this point.
Oh my, I've never seen a pure hexblade before, since hexblade is mostly a popular class dip. To be honest I don't want to multiclass into paladins as its brings some bad memories with that multiclass and breaking some encounter. So is meele hexblade is decent enough to be in front lines? Heard from someone that a pure hexblade might be lack luster due to its ability. Though the hexblade to gives off a dark magical girl or whatever the lore is the hexblade is!
Thanks for idea, I have two build in mind that I'm considering building on. As to why I choose to stop at level 10 since most campaigns stoped at around that level and don't wanna build from bottom to the top which might take a while... So I'm trying to build something realistic that I can achieve earlier in levels.
Oh my, I've never seen a pure hexblade before, since hexblade is mostly a popular class dip. To be honest I don't want to multiclass into paladins as its brings some bad memories with that multiclass and breaking some encounter. So is meele hexblade is decent enough to be in front lines? Heard from someone that a pure hexblade might be lack luster due to its ability. Though the hexblade to gives off a dark magical girl or whatever the lore is the hexblade is!
Thanks for idea, I have two build in mind that I'm considering building on. As to why I choose to stop at level 10 since most campaigns stoped at around that level and don't wanna build from bottom to the top which might take a while... So I'm trying to build something realistic that I can achieve earlier in levels.
Right, this is why I wouldn't really recommend more then a level or two of multiclassing at the very most, delaying your features more is counter productive to an "online early" mentality.
You can get up to 17 AC with non magic half plate and a d8 hit die but you also probably get to bump your CON up to 18 with this since you can start with a 16 easy if all you need is con/cha. You also get shield for a +5 AC when necessary, armor of hexes at lvl 10 for a 50% chance that your cursed target misses you with any attack roll as well as a few abilities that restore hit points or give you temp HP namely armor of agathys, your curse, fiendish vigor.
Heck, if you really wanna push this, don't know if it makes sense for your character or not and it requires DM buy-in but you could make yourself a custom lineage with elven blood (a quarter elf? Maybe an ancestor?) to still start with the feat from PAM and pick up elven accuracy later on. If not, a hexblade half elf would also be pretty strong and give you better stats but you do delay your PAM/Sentinel due to no feat at lvl 1.
In the latter case you can easily abuse this with the infamous devil sight + darkness cheese combo but beware not to piss off fellow players.
The single class hexblade's biggest weakness IMO is a lack of spell slots which is why many of them multi into bard or sorc for the extra spell slots.
Either way, if you do go Hexblade, consider the eldritch mind invocation to get advantage on concentration checks or spend an ASI on War Caster if you really wanna take advantage of the opportunity attacks with something like the booming blade cantrip on an opportunity attack but if you're strapped for feats, eldritch mind is a cheaper alternative that does half of what that feat does.
I just skimmed thru and saw a lot of interesting builds but mostly multiclass, have you considered a single class ranger instead? If not let me suggest you take a look at at a Tasha’s ranger version this is a hunter version but other ranger builds would be possible too.
L1: variant human, PAM, Deft Explorer ( 2 languages, canny(2x PB for one skill)), favored foe (marked foe gets +1d4 damage on 1 hit/rd) L2: ranger spells including the additional ones from xanthar and tasha, fighting style (defense (+1AC) or see if the DM will let you take great weapon fighting from the fighter list I know I would) ( the spells give you access to both hunters mark and L2 magic weapon both very useful even if it means delaying the PAM bonus attack to round 2) L3: hunter- hunters prey (either colossus slayer -(+1d8 damage on 1hit/rd) or horde breaker (make a second attack with the same weapon against a different foe within 5’ of the first and in range of your weapon each red)), primal awareness (more spells) L4: ASI- sentinel feat L5: extra attack, L2 spells so now you get magic weapon and others L6: favored foe damage increases to 1d6, canny adds Roving: +5’ speed, swimming and climbing speeds L7: defensive tactics - either escape the horde (OA against you at disadvantage) or multi attack defense (+4AC on all later attacks that round by 1 foe that hits you each round) L8: ASI/Feat, Land’s stride (non magical difficult terrain costs no extra movement) L9: third level spells L10: deft explorer- tireless ( 1d8+wisdom bonus temp HP PB times per long rest), nature’sviel (PB times use bonus action to become invisible) L11: multiattack - whirlwind attack (melee attack against any number of foes in 5’ of you - separate attack roll for each) ( personally I would check with the DM on this and see if they are willing to extend this to the reach of your weapon not just 5’)
you were looking for something different and this meets that request I believe.
I just skimmed thru and saw a lot of interesting builds but mostly multiclass, have you considered a single class ranger instead? If not let me suggest you take a look at at a Tasha’s ranger version this is a hunter version but other ranger builds would be possible too.
L1: variant human, PAM, Deft Explorer ( 2 languages, canny(2x PB for one skill)), favored foe (marked foe gets +1d4 damage on 1 hit/rd) L2: ranger spells including the additional ones from xanthar and tasha, fighting style (defense (+1AC) or see if the DM will let you take great weapon fighting from the fighter list I know I would) ( the spells give you access to both hunters mark and L2 magic weapon both very useful even if it means delaying the PAM bonus attack to round 2) L3: hunter- hunters prey (either colossus slayer -(+1d8 damage on 1hit/rd) or horde breaker (make a second attack with the same weapon against a different foe within 5’ of the first and in range of your weapon each red)), primal awareness (more spells) L4: ASI- sentinel feat L5: extra attack, L2 spells so now you get magic weapon and others L6: favored foe damage increases to 1d6, canny adds Roving: +5’ speed, swimming and climbing speeds L7: defensive tactics - either escape the horde (OA against you at disadvantage) or multi attack defense (+4AC on all later attacks that round by 1 foe that hits you each round) L8: ASI/Feat, Land’s stride (non magical difficult terrain costs no extra movement) L9: third level spells L10: deft explorer- tireless ( 1d8+wisdom bonus temp HP PB times per long rest), nature’sviel (PB times use bonus action to become invisible) L11: multiattack - whirlwind attack (melee attack against any number of foes in 5’ of you - separate attack roll for each) ( personally I would check with the DM on this and see if they are willing to extend this to the reach of your weapon not just 5’)
you were looking for something different and this meets that request I believe.
Sorry for the late reply and I must say you took the time to help me build this build and I have to applauded you for that unlike the rest, go beyond level 10 which I didn't ask or just spitballing Ideas! Like why do I have to play a Paladin/Hexblade Polearm Fighter and not telling me the details about it.
Also how would I stat this Ranger Polearm Fighter? Point Buy please
I think I have a solid idea that I want to try either
Echo Knight/Ancestral Barbarian Rune Knight? Pure Hexblade
first thank you, it’s your character so you set the limits I follow unless it is a really awful combo. Now, as to point buy stats: first - as a variant human put the +1 stats into Dex and wisdom, then: S) 14 (+2B) going to 15 maybe helps a little with ASIs but it hurts your stats overall D) 13 (+1 from VH =14) this gives you the +2 bonus that is your max for medium armour so it doesn’t need to go higher later C) 14 like strength this is as high as you’ll be able to go here till you get ASIs but it gives you a solid +2 HP each level I) 10 putting points here let’s you play a smart (er) character and there are generally more Intel saves than Ch saves so no -1 is helpful W) 13 (+1 from VH =14) this gives your spells that little extra boost - yes don’t forget those ranger spells 😁 Ch) 9 it’s point buy so you have to take a hit somewhere, rangers are a bit of a loner type and Ch saves are rare so this is a fairly safe place to take the hit.
personally I don’t like point buy but I know lots of DMs love it.
You will need to use at least 2 ASIs to boost stats (maybe 3) to 16s in Strength and Wisdom (and maybe Con) but that is going beyond level 11 to get there, I would use the L8 ASI to boost strength and then if you hit L12 boost Wisdom ( spell DC is going to need that boost by then) stick with sentinel at L4 as it’s a key part of your build.
if you have the DDB app use the character builder to play around with other builds - don’t forget that you can delete them once you’ve made them and examined them - you can also do a lot of modifications to see how things change and fine tune the builds that way.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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No, you are right - it's just that for a Hexblade, their glaive can also be a longbow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGiE10zNQM
@ArntItheBest Ah thank you, this combo sounds awesome! never thought of that before. So should i go more fighter or more barbarian? both subclass offers some nice stuff for my character (also lets try not to multi quote each other until its full i don't like scrolling down and up)
Here's what I would recommend if you're going EchoKnight/Ancestral Guardian...
Start as a fighter, and gain 5 levels to get Multi-attack, and if you're a variant human then you can get both of your primary feats by level 4. Then switch to Barbarian for 3 Levels to get Ancestral Guardian... the only feature from Ancestral Guardian you really need is the level 3 feature, and you want to stick with mostly Fighter because it gives you more ASIs, so you can round out your stats better since you've spent two feats already.
Just keep in mind that summoning your Echo and Raging are both Bonus Actions. Luckily you can summon the echo out of combat and it will last perpetually. You won't be relying on Rage as much as a full Barbarian, so you only will ever get 3 uses in a day, but it's rare to have more than 3 serious combats in most adventuring days, and even if you aren't able to trigger rage in combat for one reason or another you're still a fully equipped fighter.
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@OP: Not optimal at all and you wouldn't be able to get the V Human feat from it but this would be HILARIOUS thematically if you are of the new Fairy race, making you a small-sized fairy magical girl who grows to LARGE size as a Rune Knight to wreck faces and who STARTS at level 1 with Flight and Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself even smaller or bigger as needed. Heck, nothing stops you from using Giant's Might first and THEN casting Enlarge on yourself to grow to HUGE size. I can't help laughing when I imagine a HUGE (15 x 15, 9 squares!) winged fairy dressed like a magical girl wielding a giant scythe who then proceeds to get uber pissed at all the poor souls nearby who, out of shock, look up at her and she throws a giant tantrum due to all the "perverts looking up her skirt" mouhahahahaha.
Obviously, you wouldn't be able to use a Glaive while you are
tinysmall though without suffering disadvantage UNLESS your DM let's you simply use the spear's stats reflavored as a "giant scythe" fit for a small character which you could wield in two hands (versatile) but then you'd lose the reach advantage on it (not that it matters immensely if you are already large/huge).Edit 1: Big con on the fairy flight though, it doesn't work if you are wearing medium or heavy armor... Bummer!
Edit 2: A fairy starts at "Small" size and not "Tiny". Corrected.
It gets better. While this is a late-game feature, an 18th Rune Knight can become Huge-sized. So imagine becoming Huge, THEN casting Enlarge to become GARGANTUAN! A FREAKING 20X20 FAIRY!
Can I steal this idea for a future one-shot? Become Ant-man?
Pouhahahaha, love it, go ahead and let me know how it goes!
When I said "tiny" in my post I using the word colloquially. Anything smaller than medium and the glaive would be at disadvantage until she grows. That's a funny idea, though :)
Oh I know, don't worry. When I said "not optimal at all", what I meant was that the idea I proposed (idea which your post gave me, hence the quote) was not optimal. Your suggestion was perfectly valid. Sorry for the confusion!
But yeah, I couldn't help from giggling to myself when I thought of that XD
A nice build with this would be 7 lvl Oath of vengeance paladin with 3+ lvl in hexblade warlock.
Relentless Avenger 7th level
By 7th level, your supernatural focus helps you close off a foe’s retreat. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
It works very well with Sentinel and PAM!
Aye thanks for the character breakdown, I was debating weather to go Fighter or Barbarian. I do like Barbarian's spirit shield that reduces the damage. having a extra ASI would benefit my build!
Are you referring to me or someone else? I don't know why but this reminds me of a certain Touhou Project character, not sure if your weeb enough to know this. I might consider Rune Knight for this, not the concept I'm looking for there.
@Wasabii: Kind of both, I was proposing a fun idea that popped into my head by reading the quoted post which also seemed to fit with your concept thematically anyway. I have never heard of Touhou Project before but a quick google search led me to this character so I assume that's who your talking about?
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Komachi_Onozuka
Anyway, Rune Knight is a really fun control/tanky class with tons of utility and becoming Large size and later Huge with +5 foot reach (or even Gargantuan if you find someway to integrate the Enlarge/Reduce spell in your repertoire) would make this a ton of fun. Echo Knight is also nice of course, but I feel like the Rune Knight would be more "magical girl" compatible due to the runes and their effects. A straight up 20 Rune Knight is already pretty devastating but there are other good breakpoints in the class if you wanna multiclass into something else. I made a Rune Knight 17/Grave Cleric 3 Grappler build recently, I have yet to play it but it looks like a ton of fun.
For RK breakpoints, you could do any of a 17/3, 18/2, 19/1, 15/5, 12/8 or 11/9 split are all valid but personally, I would NEVER go under level 12 RK for the fighter's 3rd attack and that ASI you miss out on otherwise.
The RK's biggest flaw IMO is its lack of spells or ways to deal with casters outside of tossing a javelin and hoping they fail their saves against your Fire Rune which isn't sustainable. Shoring up that weakness through Cleric 2nd lvl spells (silence more specifically) was my main goal.
A few good options to consider to multiclass into which also fits more into the "magical girl" feel you mention would be Cleric (Grave as mentioned, Twilight, Peace, Forge and debatedly War due its heavier reliance on your WIS score are all decent enough choices, bonus points for Forge and Twilight for heavy armor prof that would let you start as a cleric at level 1 to get both that AND prof in Wis saves) and Wizard (Chronurgy and War Magic are both great options). I haven't looked into it too much but I heard that Druid and Ranger could also work well with it. Either way, I personally would not consider anything more then a 1 to 5 level dip in another class (and ideally no more then 3 to pick it up BEFORE level 20) if you do go RK due to the Master of Runes ability which lets you use each rune twice per short rest instead of just once and is a game changer IMO.
Either way, Barbarian is a bit redundant with the RK if you do go that route due to the Hill Rune they can pick up at level 7 which also lets them get resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage for 1 minute. Barbarian would really be a better fit with something like an Echo Knight and you can't rely on heavy armor if you want to rage. The Hill Rune is a bit more limited in usage then rage though since its once/short rest at first, but you also can keep using spells if you wanna multiclass into a spellcasting class and you got a fantastic defensive option for the party through Runic Shield, forcing an enemy to reroll and possibly negating a lethal crit which gives you another use for your reaction that you can use a number of times equal to your PB/long rest.
I'm a BIG FAN of the Rune Knight if it isn't immediately obvious. Whichever way you choose, good luck with your character and have fun!
Edit: Just reread your original post, specifically the part about darting in and ou and you could probably pick up the fey touched half feat for the amazing misty step that you could cast with your own spell slots as well if you ever get any later on. It's a pretty good utility/mobility spell. You also get your pick of any 1st lvl divination/enchantment spells, notable mentions that you could get a good mileage out of include bless, bane, hunter's mark or my personal favorite with my grappler build, hex!
In regards to the Barbarian's Spirit Shield...
One of the reasons I recommended Echo Knight over Ancestral Guardian is because the Echo Knight gets a similar feature at level 10, which lets you use the Echo to completely absorb one attack. It's not something you can use round-after-round like with Spirit Shield, but you've already got a LOT of features competing for your Reaction, so I think it still works to have one Big damage reduction option instead of dozens of small ones. But like I said, the main reason is the ASI's. For an Echo Knight fighter to really shine you're going to want to beef up both your STR and CON, especially since your CON directly ties into a lot of your abilities, and you're also still going to want decent DEX or potentially keep up some of your other stats to keep you more well-rounded.
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Agreed with the notes above re: Fighter / Barbarian split... I'd suggest sticking to Barbarian 3, and the rest Fighter... although when I multiclass with Barbarian, I always go Barbarian as my second level... getting Rage is just too much of a character defining trait. Yes, you put off your second attack by a level, but so what? Sometimes, your character takes precedence over optimization. So
@Wasabii: I agree with most of what Bishop's said, delaying extra attack for one level is not a huge deal, even less so if you pick up PAM as your Variant Human feat. However, if you want to be online by level 10, you can't accomplish that with anything more then a single level of multiclassing in most cases, 2 levels at most no matter what your build is. Keep in mind that Multiclassing is considered an optional rule and the game, monsters and classes are all balanced around the assumption that most characters will get significant power bumps at levels 5 and 11 respectively. Delaying the features you get at these levels by more then a single level is usually not worth it.
What helped me alot when trying to figure out class progression was to compare what I give up between a straight-up class and a multiclass. In your case, keep in mind what you're giving up and your overall progression which is even more important if you're starting at level 1 and want to be online ASAP.
As a pure Fighter instead, you would obviously not get the Primal Path and Rage features (the latter which you can't do in heavy armor anyway) but you would also:
As much as I love multiclassing, it kind of sucks to do so when you start at a lower level. Its much easier when you already start at levels 10-15 where you don't have to deal with the slower progression for your character's whole career. This is why many people favor 1-2 level dips at most and will often not pick up the 2nd level until they have acquired all the main abilities they want from their main class which is usually past level 11-12. If you REALLY want to be a barbarian, personally, I would not pick up more then a single level unless you really want Reckless Attack and I would not pick up a 3rd level until level 12+ if at all.
This is my opinion obviously, do with it what you will but most of all, have fun!
For a non-fighter class build that would be compatible with your concept and efficient, consider a single-classed Hexblade Warlock with Pact of the Blade and the Improved Pact Weapon invocation. Decent crit-fishing potential once/short rest through Hexblade's curse, everything based on CHA allowing you to focus on CHA/CON and ditch pretty much everything else, compatible with your Scythe-wielding magical girl as soon as level 3, decent spell selection, the Shield and Armor of Agathys spells which are amazing on a melee character, the ability to unload Eldritch Smite if you pick it up at level 5 after confirming a hit (or crit!) similar to the Paladin's Divine Smite but scales higher and also knocks prone, also compatible with PAM and Sentinel, an amazing amount of customization options through their invocations.
With point-buy, you could start with: 8/14/15/8/10/15, put your two +1s into CON/CHA for 16 and pick-up PAM. Notable class progression features:
Hex 1: Hexblade's Curse + Hex Warrior -> Prof in medium armor and martial weapons + Use CHA for attacks on one-handed weapons for now + 19-20 crit and + PB to dmg once/short rest
Hex 2: Invocations
Hex 3: Pact of the Blade + Retrain one invocation into Improved Pact Weapon -> Can now use a 2-handed Scythe
Hex 4: Sentinel or CHA+2
Hex 5: Pick up Thirsting Blade for an extra attack (3 in total with PAM) and optionally retrain your 3rd invocation into Eldritch Smite
Hex 7: 4th level spells + 4th invocation
Hex 8: Sentinel or CHA+2 (CHA 18)
Hex 10: Armor of Hexes which will make you very hard to hit
Hex 11: Mystic Arcanum (6th level) + your 3rd short rest spell slot (FINALLY!)
Hex 12: CHA+2 (CHA 20) + 6th invocation -> Lifedrinker! This makes your hex weapon (Scythe) deal + CHAx2 (+10) damage on every hit instead of just +CHA!
At this point, your build is completely online and everything else you add after this is just a bonus and you still have 3 invocations free for whatever you choose if you pick my recommendations (Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite) and 2 more to pick up during your career! I'd probably go up to 14 at this point for Master of Hexes though so you can move your Hexblade's Curse around and keep it up throughout an entire encounter.
You could also multiclass 3 to 6 levels into Sorcerer or Bard easily without any difficulty if you want access to more spells/spell slots. Paladin is also a possibility to double-dip into Smites and go Nova when you crit. If you want to consider Paladin though, you'd have to modify your starting stats accordingly since you need STR 13 for that. Heck, you could even grab up to 6 levels of Fighter if you REALLY wanted to but it'd be a bit redundant at this point.
Oh my, I've never seen a pure hexblade before, since hexblade is mostly a popular class dip. To be honest I don't want to multiclass into paladins as its brings some bad memories with that multiclass and breaking some encounter. So is meele hexblade is decent enough to be in front lines? Heard from someone that a pure hexblade might be lack luster due to its ability. Though the hexblade to gives off a dark magical girl or whatever the lore is the hexblade is!
Thanks for idea, I have two build in mind that I'm considering building on. As to why I choose to stop at level 10 since most campaigns stoped at around that level and don't wanna build from bottom to the top which might take a while... So I'm trying to build something realistic that I can achieve earlier in levels.
Right, this is why I wouldn't really recommend more then a level or two of multiclassing at the very most, delaying your features more is counter productive to an "online early" mentality.
You can get up to 17 AC with non magic half plate and a d8 hit die but you also probably get to bump your CON up to 18 with this since you can start with a 16 easy if all you need is con/cha. You also get shield for a +5 AC when necessary, armor of hexes at lvl 10 for a 50% chance that your cursed target misses you with any attack roll as well as a few abilities that restore hit points or give you temp HP namely armor of agathys, your curse, fiendish vigor.
Heck, if you really wanna push this, don't know if it makes sense for your character or not and it requires DM buy-in but you could make yourself a custom lineage with elven blood (a quarter elf? Maybe an ancestor?) to still start with the feat from PAM and pick up elven accuracy later on. If not, a hexblade half elf would also be pretty strong and give you better stats but you do delay your PAM/Sentinel due to no feat at lvl 1.
In the latter case you can easily abuse this with the infamous devil sight + darkness cheese combo but beware not to piss off fellow players.
The single class hexblade's biggest weakness IMO is a lack of spell slots which is why many of them multi into bard or sorc for the extra spell slots.
Either way, if you do go Hexblade, consider the eldritch mind invocation to get advantage on concentration checks or spend an ASI on War Caster if you really wanna take advantage of the opportunity attacks with something like the booming blade cantrip on an opportunity attack but if you're strapped for feats, eldritch mind is a cheaper alternative that does half of what that feat does.
I just skimmed thru and saw a lot of interesting builds but mostly multiclass, have you considered a single class ranger instead? If not let me suggest you take a look at at a Tasha’s ranger version this is a hunter version but other ranger builds would be possible too.
L1: variant human, PAM, Deft Explorer ( 2 languages, canny(2x PB for one skill)), favored foe (marked foe gets +1d4 damage on 1 hit/rd)
L2: ranger spells including the additional ones from xanthar and tasha, fighting style (defense (+1AC) or see if the DM will let you take great weapon fighting from the fighter list I know I would) ( the spells give you access to both hunters mark and L2 magic weapon both very useful even if it means delaying the PAM bonus attack to round 2)
L3: hunter- hunters prey (either colossus slayer -(+1d8 damage on 1hit/rd) or horde breaker (make a second attack with the same weapon against a different foe within 5’ of the first and in range of your weapon each red)), primal awareness (more spells)
L4: ASI- sentinel feat
L5: extra attack, L2 spells so now you get magic weapon and others
L6: favored foe damage increases to 1d6, canny adds Roving: +5’ speed, swimming and climbing speeds
L7: defensive tactics - either escape the horde (OA against you at disadvantage) or multi attack defense (+4AC on all later attacks that round by 1 foe that hits you each round)
L8: ASI/Feat, Land’s stride (non magical difficult terrain costs no extra movement)
L9: third level spells
L10: deft explorer- tireless ( 1d8+wisdom bonus temp HP PB times per long rest), nature’sviel (PB times use bonus action to become invisible)
L11: multiattack - whirlwind attack (melee attack against any number of foes in 5’ of you - separate attack roll for each) ( personally I would check with the DM on this and see if they are willing to extend this to the reach of your weapon not just 5’)
you were looking for something different and this meets that request I believe.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Sorry for the late reply and I must say you took the time to help me build this build and I have to applauded you for that unlike the rest, go beyond level 10 which I didn't ask or just spitballing Ideas! Like why do I have to play a Paladin/Hexblade Polearm Fighter and not telling me the details about it.
Also how would I stat this Ranger Polearm Fighter? Point Buy please
I think I have a solid idea that I want to try either
Echo Knight/Ancestral Barbarian
Rune Knight?
Pure Hexblade
first thank you, it’s your character so you set the limits I follow unless it is a really awful combo. Now, as to point buy stats:
first - as a variant human put the +1 stats into Dex and wisdom, then:
S) 14 (+2B) going to 15 maybe helps a little with ASIs but it hurts your stats overall
D) 13 (+1 from VH =14) this gives you the +2 bonus that is your max for medium armour so it doesn’t need to go higher later
C) 14 like strength this is as high as you’ll be able to go here till you get ASIs but it gives you a solid +2 HP each level
I) 10 putting points here let’s you play a smart (er) character and there are generally more Intel saves than Ch saves so no -1 is helpful
W) 13 (+1 from VH =14) this gives your spells that little extra boost - yes don’t forget those ranger spells 😁
Ch) 9 it’s point buy so you have to take a hit somewhere, rangers are a bit of a loner type and Ch saves are rare so this is a fairly safe place to take the hit.
personally I don’t like point buy but I know lots of DMs love it.
You will need to use at least 2 ASIs to boost stats (maybe 3) to 16s in Strength and Wisdom (and maybe Con) but that is going beyond level 11 to get there, I would use the L8 ASI to boost strength and then if you hit L12 boost Wisdom ( spell DC is going to need that boost by then) stick with sentinel at L4 as it’s a key part of your build.
if you have the DDB app use the character builder to play around with other builds - don’t forget that you can delete them once you’ve made them and examined them - you can also do a lot of modifications to see how things change and fine tune the builds that way.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.