So, I was invited to a short campaign with high level characters. Starting of at 14 and probably will be going for at least a few levels more. Being inspired by D4 Optimized on youtube I thought it would be fun to throw together the ultimate thrillseeker, someone who never backs down and who will stop at nothing for fame and GLORY! Let me know what you think. :)
The short of it is that the character is pretty mucha thrillseeker out to make a name for himself, which, consdiering the level we're at, he probably has. A bit of a himbo (probably took a few too many hits to the head) but still a genuinly nice person who likes to help out even though he gets carried away when fighting a bit too often. Race will be half-elf. We'll roll for stats during the first session but I'm using standard point array to show you the general idea for stat distribution. Strength: 15+1 Dexterity 12 Constitution 13+1 Intelligence 10 Wisdom 8 Charisma 14+2 Starting out as a barbarian for a few more hit points and since we don't really need heavy armor proficiency from Paladin we will (at level 14) end up with the following. Barbarian 3 (Bear Totem for tanking), Paladin Oath of Glory 6 (for Aura of Protection, Smites and some healing hands) and Sword Bard 4 (for spell slots and to write the songs of his own deeds). Starting out as barbarian also gives us proficiency in Constitution saving throws which will be useful for the times we don't frenzy. The two ASIs will be used to boost Charisma for more Sword bard flourishes and to get the Tough feat for more tankiness. Plan is to use a warhammer and shield and medium armor. From Paladin we get the defence fighting style and from Sword Bard we get the Duelling fighting style. With a half plate that would give us a respectable AC of 19 (way better than if we use unarmored defence from barbarian) and we'll do decent damage even with a one-handed weapon with rage, fighting style and smites). If we get to level 15 I'd take another level in Bard for more spell slots and getting bardic inspiration flourish dice back on a short rest. At level 16 another barbarian level for an ASI to raise Strength. Not sure if the game will go on for much more than that.
Will this work for a higher level game? Have I missed some combination that will make this fantastically OP? Obviously the main focus of spells will be out of combat since you can't rage will casting (even though Aid could still be used). I'm more or less counting on a magical weapon so that will help out a bit with the low strength score but in general I'm focusing more on tanking than damage dealing.
It makes sense to me, but I feel like Bard is kind of superfluous to this character. It seems that you're mostly including Bard for RP purposes, but you don't need to actually be a Bard in order to be a musician... you could just take a background that gives you proficiency with an instrument or with performance.
Personally, I would take Barbarian to level 6... what Primal Path you take I think would depend on your game. I think the Eagle Path is probably the easiest to take advantage of, but depending on your group layout and what kind of game this is you might want something else. Mostly you want to get to level 6 to give you 4 Rages/Short Rest, and also get your increased movement speed. Combine this with Aura of Alacrity from Oath of Glory and suddenly you've got a move speed of 50, which is great for a Tank character because you can easily position yourself at the front of your allies and move to be in defensive positions as the battlefield shifts. I think going forward I would prioritize Paladin, mostly to make sure you're well-equipped with spell slots.
It makes sense to me, but I feel like Bard is kind of superfluous to this character. It seems that you're mostly including Bard for RP purposes, but you don't need to actually be a Bard in order to be a musician... you could just take a background that gives you proficiency with an instrument or with performance.
Hmm. Thanks for the input.
True, one big reason for Sword bard is RP purposes (basically this is a guy who quite literally toots his own horns and boasts about how good he and his team are) but it also provides a lot of utility and a boost to both survival and damage. The Duelling fighting style provides a consistent damage boost that I wouldn't get until level Barbarian level 16 and the Flourishes provides both extra mobility as well as extra damage and, when needed, a bonus to AC. Taking levels of a full caster though would provide me with more spell slots (for rage smiting) than if I just take paladin levels instead.
I think you’ve got too many classes, which limits your progression to higher level abilities. But rather than drop Bard, I’d suggest dropping Barbarian. You’ll be a tank with just 9 or 10 levels of Paladin, and the rest Bard. That will reduce your main stats to CHR and either STR or DEX (with a minimum STR of 13), so you’ll be less MAD. Probably best to prioritize stats STR, CHR, CON, and you can dump the rest unless you want to go DEX melee.
That will leave you with plenty of spells and abilities, including some solid Tier 2 and maybe 3 class features.
I think you’ve got too many classes, which limits your progression to higher level abilities. But rather than drop Bard, I’d suggest dropping Barbarian. You’ll be a tank with just 9 or 10 levels of Paladin, and the rest Bard. That will reduce your main stats to CHR and either STR or DEX (with a minimum STR of 13), so you’ll be less MAD. Probably best to prioritize stats STR, CHR, CON, and you can dump the rest unless you want to go DEX melee.
That will leave you with plenty of spells and abilities, including some solid Tier 2 and maybe 3 class features.
That's a good point... the Barbarian levels are mostly just for the resistances granted by Bearbarian, and it adds the whole complication of balancing Rage restrictions with all the spellcasting. Mechanically, Barbarian is the weak link in this build, whereas I was mostly going off of his character concept, where Bard felt like it didn't feed into the character concept beyond just "music".
I think you’ve got too many classes, which limits your progression to higher level abilities. But rather than drop Bard, I’d suggest dropping Barbarian. You’ll be a tank with just 9 or 10 levels of Paladin, and the rest Bard. That will reduce your main stats to CHR and either STR or DEX (with a minimum STR of 13), so you’ll be less MAD. Probably best to prioritize stats STR, CHR, CON, and you can dump the rest unless you want to go DEX melee.
That will leave you with plenty of spells and abilities, including some solid Tier 2 and maybe 3 class features.
It will be a much better tank with three levels of barbarian, higher hit dice and resistance to most types of damage. The main stats are already STR and CHA with CON as a third priority, I don't really need DEX since I can still rage even with medium armour.
As for higher level abilities, I dunno. There isn't that much that I really need or want, if you get me? Is there anything in particular you think is worth giving up the bear totem for? Aura of Alacrity is pretty good but I've yet to play in a game where 10 feet of movement have been vital. Sure, getting Haste at Paladin level 9 is nice but I'm pretty much assuming at least one of the other players will have it. :D
That's a good point... the Barbarian levels are mostly just for the resistances granted by Bearbarian, and it adds the whole complication of balancing Rage restrictions with all the spellcasting. Mechanically, Barbarian is the weak link in this build, whereas I was mostly going off of his character concept, where Bard felt like it didn't feed into the character concept beyond just "music".
Well, since I'll be going in melee fighting anyways there won't be that much spellcasting during combat. Paladin spllcasting is just Divine Smites anyway so not really that much of a difference. *G*
It seems reasonable to me. The barbarian stiffens up the character and forms the basis of tanking with the resistance and extra HP up front to counterbalance the loss when going with Bard levels. Reckless attack will help offset the lower Strength on your to hit. Getting the 5th level movement and the 6th level ability could be nice, but loses some luster with paladin 6 already giving extra attack. Con saves will be nice for the non rage moments. The barbarian I played used medium armor and was otherwise specced more for damage (zealot with a 2 handed weapon) and still was a very good tank.
Paladin 6 will handle a lot of the short falls that your barbarian would have. Mental saves are a weakness and getting a boost from Aura of Protection will help. It'll also help any other front liners in the party which should draw more attention to the front line and yourself. Defense fighting style basically makes up for only having a 12 dex as far as AC goes. Lay on Hands will give you a pool of HP that will be best used on yourself, but available to heal any in a pinch. Smites with Reckless Attacks... yes please. I've witnessed Aid on a barbarian and it's glorious. That was the majority of "healing" that our cleric did and about all that was necessary outside of potions and hit dice aside from one or two fights. Extra attack comes in here. Being able to "heal" while smiting is nice.
Bard gives more spell slots, Dueling fighting style masks the damage lost by not having a 20 strength, jack of all trades will help with the floor of any skill checks and expertise with the ceiling of a couple. Vicious Mockery gives a ranged option that is on flavor with the character concept, song of rest increases healing, and you'll be able to use your Warhammer as your spellcasting focus. Blade Flourish makes up for the loss of Fast Movement from Barbarian 5 or Aura of Alacrity, at least on a personal level. The main caveat is that you'll want some javelins to give a semblance of a ranged Attack option to enable it. If only you'd started as a barbarian to get four of them to start... oh wait! The the other Flourish options give a touch of Battle Master flavor.
It does seem to fit together reasonably well and sounds like it will scratch the itch that you were trying to get. There are certainly weak points within the build from an optimization point of view, but the choices you've made seem to compliment them all very nicely. The personality and the concept do seem to clash in that most people who are supremely confident in themselves usually specialize in skills and abilities that let them shine. That usually translates into enduring that they get the kill which usually relates to them getting the glory. The concept here seems like it's more centered on the team as a whole getting the glory with the character setting the team up. He's more of the pass first point guard of basketball, the offensive or defensive linemen of football, or the dog flushing the prey towards the hunter. In a way, it shows that the character has a great understanding that they're "playing a team sport" and might almost feel as if the team's glory is almost all their glory, while retaining a touch of tact about actually saying it. I'd be interested in hearing how well it comes together mechanically.
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So, I was invited to a short campaign with high level characters. Starting of at 14 and probably will be going for at least a few levels more. Being inspired by D4 Optimized on youtube I thought it would be fun to throw together the ultimate thrillseeker, someone who never backs down and who will stop at nothing for fame and GLORY! Let me know what you think. :)
The short of it is that the character is pretty mucha thrillseeker out to make a name for himself, which, consdiering the level we're at, he probably has. A bit of a himbo (probably took a few too many hits to the head) but still a genuinly nice person who likes to help out even though he gets carried away when fighting a bit too often. Race will be half-elf. We'll roll for stats during the first session but I'm using standard point array to show you the general idea for stat distribution.
Strength: 15+1
Dexterity 12
Constitution 13+1
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 8
Charisma 14+2
Starting out as a barbarian for a few more hit points and since we don't really need heavy armor proficiency from Paladin we will (at level 14) end up with the following. Barbarian 3 (Bear Totem for tanking), Paladin Oath of Glory 6 (for Aura of Protection, Smites and some healing hands) and Sword Bard 4 (for spell slots and to write the songs of his own deeds). Starting out as barbarian also gives us proficiency in Constitution saving throws which will be useful for the times we don't frenzy. The two ASIs will be used to boost Charisma for more Sword bard flourishes and to get the Tough feat for more tankiness. Plan is to use a warhammer and shield and medium armor. From Paladin we get the defence fighting style and from Sword Bard we get the Duelling fighting style. With a half plate that would give us a respectable AC of 19 (way better than if we use unarmored defence from barbarian) and we'll do decent damage even with a one-handed weapon with rage, fighting style and smites). If we get to level 15 I'd take another level in Bard for more spell slots and getting bardic inspiration flourish dice back on a short rest. At level 16 another barbarian level for an ASI to raise Strength. Not sure if the game will go on for much more than that.
Will this work for a higher level game? Have I missed some combination that will make this fantastically OP? Obviously the main focus of spells will be out of combat since you can't rage will casting (even though Aid could still be used). I'm more or less counting on a magical weapon so that will help out a bit with the low strength score but in general I'm focusing more on tanking than damage dealing.
It makes sense to me, but I feel like Bard is kind of superfluous to this character. It seems that you're mostly including Bard for RP purposes, but you don't need to actually be a Bard in order to be a musician... you could just take a background that gives you proficiency with an instrument or with performance.
Personally, I would take Barbarian to level 6... what Primal Path you take I think would depend on your game. I think the Eagle Path is probably the easiest to take advantage of, but depending on your group layout and what kind of game this is you might want something else. Mostly you want to get to level 6 to give you 4 Rages/Short Rest, and also get your increased movement speed. Combine this with Aura of Alacrity from Oath of Glory and suddenly you've got a move speed of 50, which is great for a Tank character because you can easily position yourself at the front of your allies and move to be in defensive positions as the battlefield shifts. I think going forward I would prioritize Paladin, mostly to make sure you're well-equipped with spell slots.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Hmm. Thanks for the input.
True, one big reason for Sword bard is RP purposes (basically this is a guy who quite literally toots his own horns and boasts about how good he and his team are) but it also provides a lot of utility and a boost to both survival and damage. The Duelling fighting style provides a consistent damage boost that I wouldn't get until level Barbarian level 16 and the Flourishes provides both extra mobility as well as extra damage and, when needed, a bonus to AC. Taking levels of a full caster though would provide me with more spell slots (for rage smiting) than if I just take paladin levels instead.
I think you’ve got too many classes, which limits your progression to higher level abilities. But rather than drop Bard, I’d suggest dropping Barbarian. You’ll be a tank with just 9 or 10 levels of Paladin, and the rest Bard. That will reduce your main stats to CHR and either STR or DEX (with a minimum STR of 13), so you’ll be less MAD. Probably best to prioritize stats STR, CHR, CON, and you can dump the rest unless you want to go DEX melee.
That will leave you with plenty of spells and abilities, including some solid Tier 2 and maybe 3 class features.
That's a good point... the Barbarian levels are mostly just for the resistances granted by Bearbarian, and it adds the whole complication of balancing Rage restrictions with all the spellcasting. Mechanically, Barbarian is the weak link in this build, whereas I was mostly going off of his character concept, where Bard felt like it didn't feed into the character concept beyond just "music".
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
It will be a much better tank with three levels of barbarian, higher hit dice and resistance to most types of damage. The main stats are already STR and CHA with CON as a third priority, I don't really need DEX since I can still rage even with medium armour.
As for higher level abilities, I dunno. There isn't that much that I really need or want, if you get me? Is there anything in particular you think is worth giving up the bear totem for? Aura of Alacrity is pretty good but I've yet to play in a game where 10 feet of movement have been vital. Sure, getting Haste at Paladin level 9 is nice but I'm pretty much assuming at least one of the other players will have it. :D
Well, since I'll be going in melee fighting anyways there won't be that much spellcasting during combat. Paladin spllcasting is just Divine Smites anyway so not really that much of a difference. *G*
It seems reasonable to me. The barbarian stiffens up the character and forms the basis of tanking with the resistance and extra HP up front to counterbalance the loss when going with Bard levels. Reckless attack will help offset the lower Strength on your to hit. Getting the 5th level movement and the 6th level ability could be nice, but loses some luster with paladin 6 already giving extra attack. Con saves will be nice for the non rage moments. The barbarian I played used medium armor and was otherwise specced more for damage (zealot with a 2 handed weapon) and still was a very good tank.
Paladin 6 will handle a lot of the short falls that your barbarian would have. Mental saves are a weakness and getting a boost from Aura of Protection will help. It'll also help any other front liners in the party which should draw more attention to the front line and yourself. Defense fighting style basically makes up for only having a 12 dex as far as AC goes. Lay on Hands will give you a pool of HP that will be best used on yourself, but available to heal any in a pinch. Smites with Reckless Attacks... yes please. I've witnessed Aid on a barbarian and it's glorious. That was the majority of "healing" that our cleric did and about all that was necessary outside of potions and hit dice aside from one or two fights. Extra attack comes in here. Being able to "heal" while smiting is nice.
Bard gives more spell slots, Dueling fighting style masks the damage lost by not having a 20 strength, jack of all trades will help with the floor of any skill checks and expertise with the ceiling of a couple. Vicious Mockery gives a ranged option that is on flavor with the character concept, song of rest increases healing, and you'll be able to use your Warhammer as your spellcasting focus. Blade Flourish makes up for the loss of Fast Movement from Barbarian 5 or Aura of Alacrity, at least on a personal level. The main caveat is that you'll want some javelins to give a semblance of a ranged Attack option to enable it. If only you'd started as a barbarian to get four of them to start... oh wait! The the other Flourish options give a touch of Battle Master flavor.
It does seem to fit together reasonably well and sounds like it will scratch the itch that you were trying to get. There are certainly weak points within the build from an optimization point of view, but the choices you've made seem to compliment them all very nicely. The personality and the concept do seem to clash in that most people who are supremely confident in themselves usually specialize in skills and abilities that let them shine. That usually translates into enduring that they get the kill which usually relates to them getting the glory. The concept here seems like it's more centered on the team as a whole getting the glory with the character setting the team up. He's more of the pass first point guard of basketball, the offensive or defensive linemen of football, or the dog flushing the prey towards the hunter. In a way, it shows that the character has a great understanding that they're "playing a team sport" and might almost feel as if the team's glory is almost all their glory, while retaining a touch of tact about actually saying it. I'd be interested in hearing how well it comes together mechanically.