For some reason, killing the Tarrasque is one of the things people have on their bucket list. It's one of the ultimate monsters you have to kill, right? It was one of the most difficult things to kill, players would just run the other way instead of trying to fight such a mighty beast.
IMO, the 5E Tarrasque has been nerfed so hard, it isn't a challenge at all. The ONLY thing it has that bears mention is it's defense vs. magic and it's Swallow. Run away...run away! Oh wait...it has no ranged attacks.
Granted it has 676 hps, very daunting but just drags out the fight. Bring back the regeneration or it's just going to be a war of attrition. Without regen, any character with fly and a magical bow/crossbow kills it easily.
You have stated a problem. Do you want it to be solved?
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I'm sure the high level party that gets obliterated before even closing to melee range will have a fun time with the encounter.
Looks like you finally might be starting to understand why talking about an encounter while not including any of the context provided by actual events and conditions within the campaign/adventure is pretty much useless - every prospective outcome can be shown to be ridiculous if someone is willing to exaggerate the right detail.
If I suggest the tarrasque is spitting the boulders, and carries a dozen around in it's craw, will this debate stretch to three pages?
One thing to consider when comparing a tarrasque's hurl with a giant's throw, is that the int 3 Tarrasque probably doesn't understand trajectory or the effect of gravity.
But that's the thing; "making up an attack that isn't listed in the MM" isn't the DM 'cheating'. It is exactly what the DM is supposed to be doing. That is why there is a DM and we are not all sitting at home alone playing computer games where all the tarrasques behave exactly as they are programmed to behave. Your character has not seen the stat block of a tarrasque, and most likely they have never seen a tarrasque either. The character may be surprised by the rock throwing, but they are in no position to argue about it.
At the end of the day, the DM owns the stat blocks and if they write on there that a tarrasque can shoot lightning bolts out of its eyes then that is true. It would be nice of the DM to have some NPC warn the players about the lightning before you face one I guess.
But that's the thing; "making up an attack that isn't listed in the MM" isn't the DM 'cheating'. It is exactly what the DM is supposed to be doing. That is why there is a DM and we are not all sitting at home alone playing computer games where all the tarrasques behave exactly as they are programmed to behave. Your character has not seen the stat block of a tarrasque, and most likely they have never seen a tarrasque either. The character may be surprised by the rock throwing, but they are in no position to argue about it.
I always look both ways when crossing a one way street.
At the end of the day, the DM owns the stat blocks and if they write on there that a tarrasque can shoot lightning bolts out of its eyes then that is true. It would be nice of the DM to have some NPC warn the players about the lightning before you face one I guess
At the end of the day, a Tarrasque shooting lighting bolts out of its eyes is just going to get you accused of a power trip..giving a monster abilities far and above what teh MM gives as a guideline. The thrown bolder (or tree) was much better.
As an example, there's nothing in the rules that say a Kobold can't drain 1d4 Con. If the DM gives that ability to all Kobolds, then of course they have it. Heck, lets just make it seem like players have a chance to avoid the Con drain and give it a Con save of DC 24.
You're a DM, you can do anything you want....but your players will probably find another DM if you aren't fair. So, make up a ranged attack for the Tarrasque, it you aren't careful....no team of players will be able to defeat it. Ever.
Go ahead, create a situation your players can't win at...kill them off. I'm sure they'll just make a new set of custom characters that CAN defeat that impossible task.
If you want to give some kind of overpowered ranged attack to a mob that doesn't have a ranged attack in the MM...your players will just find some other way, other wise they'll never win. You DO want your players to have a chance at winning....right?
If you want to give some kind of overpowered ranged attack to a mob that doesn't have a ranged attack in the MM...your players will just find some other way, other wise they'll never win. You DO want your players to have a chance at winning....right?
You DO want your players to have a chance at winning....right?
Not always.
Agreed. If the players are deliberately trying to punch too far above their weight class (example: being 5th level and deciding to fight a CR 30 monster if one shows up instead of deciding to get out of its way), or if they are trying to get a win through some cheesy abuse of a perceived loophole or flaw in the rules that will only work if the DM lets their game be a slave to the most technical reading of the rules as possible, I definitely don't want them to have a chance at "winning" (which I put in scare quotes because there is no "winning" at D&D as the word normally is used, even though it can be used in this context to mean successfully overcoming a combat challenge).
Sorry to revive this, and I think my point might've been mentioned already, but isn't killing the Tarrasque more of like, a save- the- world situation instead of "fight a boss in an endless expanse with no cities around"? I think it's fine that the Tarrasque doesn't have a ranged attack, it doesn't need one to crush the city that the PC's call home. If I were to ever use it (and I would love to), then I'd use it as a "you have to find a way to stop this rampage soon because it'll destroy everything", and not so much fighting the monster in a vacuum
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Granted it has 676 hps, very daunting but just drags out the fight.
That's the point. Dragging out the fight is bad.
Instead of "a bunch of PCs fight a tarrasque in an empty field", the scenario should be, "A tarrasque is attacking a city. The PCs have to kill it. The longer they take to kill it, the more of the city's buildings and inhabitants get eaten."
Your PCs with flight and a magical crossbow are going to take hours to kill it. They will be attacking from long range or risking being frightened (which is bad, because they will have to go a long way to lose line of sight to a gargantuan siege monster). They will be plinking away with their little bows while the city leaders scream at them "What are you doing flying up there??!!! Get in and kill it!!!!!". Each round, tens of townsfolk are going to be running around screaming in terror, adding to the confusion and panic. Each round, the tarrasque is going to get 8 attacks against the city, doing double damage because it is a siege monster.
In short, the tarrasque is not a monster; it is a force of nature. You don't "fight" it; you "work to minimise its damage as much as you can".
The DM decides what happens. But clearly it's one of three things: the spell fails outright , the Terrasque is injured and forced to regurgitate or die, or the transformation has insufficient power to affect the Terrasque and the poor PC is left as a warped, half-formed dragon thing still inside an angry Terrasque. Care to try it out and let us know?
Instead of "a bunch of PCs fight a tarrasque in an empty field", the scenario should be, "A tarrasque is attacking a city. The PCs have to kill it. The longer they take to kill it, the more of the city's buildings and inhabitants get eaten."
Your PCs with flight and a magical crossbow are going to take hours to kill it. They will be attacking from long range or risking being frightened (which is bad, because they will have to go a long way to lose line of sight to a gargantuan siege monster). They will be plinking away with their little bows while the city leaders scream at them "What are you doing flying up there??!!! Get in and kill it!!!!!". Each round, tens of townsfolk are going to be running around screaming in terror, adding to the confusion and panic. Each round, the tarrasque is going to get 8 attacks against the city, doing double damage because it is a siege monster.
In short, the tarrasque is not a monster; it is a force of nature. You don't "fight" it; you "work to minimise its damage as much as you can".
Or the scenario is, " A Tarrasque is heading TO our town. Stop it before it reaches the city and does untold damage. It will be here in 12 hours. Go! Set up traps, set up defenses, mobilize the troops!"
If the Tarrasque is already in the city....you'd want to kill it as fast as possible. This means throwing tons of ground at it (remember, each needs a magic weapon to hurt it) or ranged that can outmove it. Since the Tarrasque can use it's Legendary Actions to move (charge), this isn't always easy. Ranged isn't flying? Hope they're all 2nd level Rogues with Cunning Action.
The Frightful Presence isn't as bad as you make it out to be; if you make the save once then you're immune. You get a new save every round. Even if you fail, just means you can't advance closer to the source of Fright. For a ranged, this usually isn't a problem.
City leaders might be screaming at the melee to "get in there". They're not going saying the same to ranged...duh. "Stop doing damage from afar and get into the Tarraspque's melee range so you can die!" Only a tactical moron would ask the ranged to close to melee range.
Some spellcasters might be able to help. An AoE spell that isn't fire damage is going to be needed. Ice Storm, Call Lighting and a few others come to mind.
Granted, if you have to make a "to hit" roll against it....Mr. T has one of the highest AC's in the MM.
What happens if you shapechange into an Ancient Brass Dragon while inside the Tarrasque's stomach?
You'd have to be swallowed first. Then you'd start taking acid damage. Since an Ancient Brass Dragon isn't immune to acid damage....
Now the Tarrasque is immune to non-magical weapons. It's also immune to fire. A brass dragon's breath weapon is fire and I don't see where it's melee attacks are considered magical weapons. In short, the Tarrasque eats the Anicent Brass Dragon and burps loudly.
Sorry to revive this, and I think my point might've been mentioned already, but isn't killing the Tarrasque more of like, a save- the- world situation instead of "fight a boss in an endless expanse with no cities around"? I think it's fine that the Tarrasque doesn't have a ranged attack, it doesn't need one to crush the city that the PC's call home. If I were to ever use it (and I would love to), then I'd use it as a "you have to find a way to stop this rampage soon because it'll destroy everything", and not so much fighting the monster in a vacuum
Exactly, so how does a party kill the Tarrasque as quickly as possible. Do you have an hour before he destroys your city/town/base/whatever? Do you have 12 hours? Do you have 5 mins? Is Mr. T is already rampaging™ and destroying building?
The only difference is prep time. Whatever happens, you're going to want to stop Mr. T ASAP.
What happens if you shapechange into an Ancient Brass Dragon while inside the Tarrasque's stomach?
You'd have to be swallowed first. Then you'd start taking acid damage. Since an Ancient Brass Dragon isn't immune to acid damage....
Now the Tarrasque is immune to non-magical weapons. It's also immune to fire. A brass dragon's breath weapon is fire and I don't see where it's melee attacks are considered magical weapons. In short, the Tarrasque eats the Anicent Brass Dragon and burps loudly.
The damage occurs at the start of the Tarrasque's turn. You would get a turn to shapechange. The Tarrasque is a gargantuan creature. An Ancient Brass Dragon is a gargantuan creature. If a gargantuan creature forms inside a gargantuan creature's stomach, what happens? It's a gamble, but if you're in the Tarrasque's stomach, you're kinda screwed already.
Sorry to revive this, and I think my point might've been mentioned already, but isn't killing the Tarrasque more of like, a save- the- world situation instead of "fight a boss in an endless expanse with no cities around"? I think it's fine that the Tarrasque doesn't have a ranged attack, it doesn't need one to crush the city that the PC's call home. If I were to ever use it (and I would love to), then I'd use it as a "you have to find a way to stop this rampage soon because it'll destroy everything", and not so much fighting the monster in a vacuum
Exactly, so how does a party kill the Tarrasque as quickly as possible. Do you have an hour before he destroys your city/town/base/whatever? Do you have 12 hours? Do you have 5 mins? Is Mr. T is already rampaging™ and destroying building?
The only difference is prep time. Whatever happens, you're going to want to stop Mr. T ASAP.
This is actually easy with a properly leveled druid or wizard. You just shapechange between different dragons until the Tarrasque dies to dragon breath from above. You've got an hour to ruin him, but it probably won't take that long.
TBF, nothing in any book says a gargantuan creature can't be inside another gargantuan creature.
I'd say a "your momma" joke at this point....just doesn't need to be said.
Funny enough, it doesn't say in any books the DM can't add attacks or abilities to monsters (I believe it is actually encouraged).
Now, don't get me wrong, and hold your keyboard for a moment. What I mean is: a DM's job is to make things interesting and challenging for its players. A dragging fight were the whole party can fly and blast from afar is anything but fun, imho, it's just a seemingly endless circle of "I move x feet away flying, I use spell/attack xyz -rollrollroll- I'm done" - "the Terrasque moves towards you but can't reach you, he does nothing more" - rinse and repeat. That is all but interesting or fun, to me at least.
The "city in peril" situation could help with this, as the Terrasque might try to find a place where it would be hard to be bombarded from orbit (INT 3, but even slugs have survival instinct), but I find it difficult to think of any place where a gargantuan creature could "hide" from ranged attacks. It'd be much more believable, imho, that the creature would start throwing whatever they might find close-by to whatever is giving him boo-boo. Granted, it would be a shit of an attack, but if it does hit, it should most definitely deal quite some damage and probably knock whoever out of the sky (short of another gargantuan creature, maybe). And that is not the DM being "unfair" is the DM adapting a situation that would otherwise just be extremely boring and not leave much in the memory. "Remember that time we fought the Terrasque?" "Oh, you mean that time we spent 3 hours playing darts with the biggest target ever? meh..."
Now a little critique that is not in nay way meant to be inflammatory: most times when I see your posts it almost seems like you want people to tell you you are right. I hope I am wrong, but that is the impression and the vibe I get from most your replies, I am sorry. I think I've hardly seen you concede to some else's opinion if it is not already in line with your own idea, and that makes it difficult to have a meaningful exchange of ideas, imho. Again, no flame intended, I'd just like to see what you think of this.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
If I suggest the tarrasque is spitting the boulders, and carries a dozen around in it's craw, will this debate stretch to three pages?
One thing to consider when comparing a tarrasque's hurl with a giant's throw, is that the int 3 Tarrasque probably doesn't understand trajectory or the effect of gravity.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
But that's the thing; "making up an attack that isn't listed in the MM" isn't the DM 'cheating'. It is exactly what the DM is supposed to be doing. That is why there is a DM and we are not all sitting at home alone playing computer games where all the tarrasques behave exactly as they are programmed to behave. Your character has not seen the stat block of a tarrasque, and most likely they have never seen a tarrasque either. The character may be surprised by the rock throwing, but they are in no position to argue about it.
At the end of the day, the DM owns the stat blocks and if they write on there that a tarrasque can shoot lightning bolts out of its eyes then that is true. It would be nice of the DM to have some NPC warn the players about the lightning before you face one I guess.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
If you want to give some kind of overpowered ranged attack to a mob that doesn't have a ranged attack in the MM...your players will just find some other way, other wise they'll never win. You DO want your players to have a chance at winning....right?
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Sorry to revive this, and I think my point might've been mentioned already, but isn't killing the Tarrasque more of like, a save- the- world situation instead of "fight a boss in an endless expanse with no cities around"? I think it's fine that the Tarrasque doesn't have a ranged attack, it doesn't need one to crush the city that the PC's call home. If I were to ever use it (and I would love to), then I'd use it as a "you have to find a way to stop this rampage soon because it'll destroy everything", and not so much fighting the monster in a vacuum
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
What happens if you shapechange into an Ancient Brass Dragon while inside the Tarrasque's stomach?
The DM decides what happens. But clearly it's one of three things: the spell fails outright , the Terrasque is injured and forced to regurgitate or die, or the transformation has insufficient power to affect the Terrasque and the poor PC is left as a warped, half-formed dragon thing still inside an angry Terrasque. Care to try it out and let us know?
TBF, nothing in any book says a gargantuan creature can't be inside another gargantuan creature.
I'd say a "your momma" joke at this point....just doesn't need to be said.
A dragging fight were the whole party can fly and blast from afar is anything but fun, imho, it's just a seemingly endless circle of "I move x feet away flying, I use spell/attack xyz -rollrollroll- I'm done" - "the Terrasque moves towards you but can't reach you, he does nothing more" - rinse and repeat. That is all but interesting or fun, to me at least.
It'd be much more believable, imho, that the creature would start throwing whatever they might find close-by to whatever is giving him boo-boo. Granted, it would be a shit of an attack, but if it does hit, it should most definitely deal quite some damage and probably knock whoever out of the sky (short of another gargantuan creature, maybe).
And that is not the DM being "unfair" is the DM adapting a situation that would otherwise just be extremely boring and not leave much in the memory. "Remember that time we fought the Terrasque?" "Oh, you mean that time we spent 3 hours playing darts with the biggest target ever? meh..."
Again, no flame intended, I'd just like to see what you think of this.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games