Dimension Door isn't being cast "through the wall", it just states that you appear somewhere within range of your choice. As for the other ones that you have to see, that depends on how it is positioned and whether it is a sphere vs a wall. And again, you can just cast a fireball 1 inch outside the outermost layer and it still affects people on the other side. Also, spells that alter the ground or the air are a thing :P
Not according to RAW Sage Advice, done when he was getting paid to reply. His specific example was Dimension Door, officially ruling it did NOT work. By extension, Fireball, being an instant spell cannot go through the wall.
Spells that alter the ground or air instantly would similarly not work, according to that rule. But spells that have a duration would work, as the layer only stops things when they are cast, not after.
Dimension Door isn't being cast "through the wall", it just states that you appear somewhere within range of your choice. As for the other ones that you have to see, that depends on how it is positioned and whether it is a sphere vs a wall. And again, you can just cast a fireball 1 inch outside the outermost layer and it still affects people on the other side. Also, spells that alter the ground or the air are a thing :P
Not according to RAW Sage Advice, done when he was getting paid to reply. His specific example was Dimension Door, officially ruling it did NOT work. By extension, Fireball, being an instant spell cannot go through the wall.
Spells that alter the ground or air instantly would similarly not work, according to that rule. But spells that have a duration would work, as the layer only stops things when they are cast, not after.
I do agree with you, however, as a note, Sage Advice is RAI not RAW.
I do agree with you, however, as a note, Sage Advice is RAI not RAW.
That isn't how I interpret the SAC when it says. "Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium."
There are plenty of places where the PHB and other official rules are not clear and RAW could preasonably interpreted in multiple ways which resulted in debate as to which interpretation was correct. For example Flash of genius says "When you or another creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an ability check or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Intelligence modifier to the roll." it could be interpreted that the artificer decides whether to use a flash of genius before or after the the result of the roll is known. SAC makes it clear that RAW is that flash of genius can be yused after the roll is made (but before the affects of the rolls are applied).
I grant you that there are some things in SAC that applie to rules I thought needed no clarification and some of those go against what I thought. For example I would have thought that Goodberry is a spell that creates berries not one that heals, but SAC states that when a fighter eats a goodberry given them by a Druid / Cleric the druid/cleric is "using" the goodberry spell to restore hit points and is therefore subject to disciple of life. There was clearly some uncertainty in the PHB (or people wouldn't have asked) and this has been clarified in SAC.
I do agree with you, however, as a note, Sage Advice is RAI not RAW.
That isn't how I interpret the SAC when it says. "Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium."
There are plenty of places where the PHB and other official rules are not clear and RAW could preasonably interpreted in multiple ways which resulted in debate as to which interpretation was correct.
Official Rullings are not the same thing as Rules As Written.
They're guidance on how to interpret and implement the rules as written. Aka guidance on their Intent. Aka RAI. Rules as Intended.
That's what RAI is even referring to. A rule being implemented in the way it was intended to work, 'even if' the wording is murky, misleading, or wrong. If the intent is out there, such as through SAC or similar, then you can implement the rules the way they were meant to be implemented even if the wording in the books is funky.
RAW is, on the other hand... the actual text as it appears in the rulebook. And only that. It is the rule... as they are written.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Foresight - hands down. Just about everything you do has advantage, enemies attack with disadvantage (which means no sneak attacks). My campaign's 20th level villain was fought 3 times by the group before the campaign ended, and each time that single spell gave them the most trouble.
Groups are good at mitigating damage, so any spell that just does damage won't slow down an organized group of characters, but give them all disadvantage and suddenly all their cool strategies break apart. Sharpshooter? Not with a -5 penalty plus disadavantage. Sneak attack? Not with disadvantage. Force a save onto the villain - oops he gets advantage. PCs with high AC? The villain gets advantage on every attack roll.
Invulnerability is a close second (though there are many ways to break concentration without doing damage, but when cast on a villain can be tough to overcome if the group focused their builds entirely on damage-doing). Nothing makes a min/maxer cry faster than realizing their one-trick-pony build is now useless.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Why didn't you include Wish, it is a spell that wizards/sorcerers can learn.
Because Wish is the most powerful spell in the game by a clear margin, and renders the question moot?
Wish is by definition NOT the best spell unless you are playing a one off game. In any game where you expect to play more than once the 33% chance of never casting it again means you only use it to cast 8th or lower spells. So power wise it is by definition one of the LOWEST 9th level spells. It makes up for some of that with versatility, but True Polymorph is almost as versatile. Never choose Wish as your fist 9th level spell unless you are doing a one off.
Are you honestly making the claim that versatility =/= power? That’s…..certainly a take. By this standard do you also believe wizards are the weakest class? Wowsers that’s just hard to read…..you ALWAYS take wish as your first 9th level if you can. The ability to cast ANY 1-8th level spell from every spell list is phenomenally powerful.
Why didn't you include Wish, it is a spell that wizards/sorcerers can learn.
Because Wish is the most powerful spell in the game by a clear margin, and renders the question moot?
Wish is by definition NOT the best spell unless you are playing a one off game. In any game where you expect to play more than once the 33% chance of never casting it again means you only use it to cast 8th or lower spells. So power wise it is by definition one of the LOWEST 9th level spells. It makes up for some of that with versatility, but True Polymorph is almost as versatile. Never choose Wish as your fist 9th level spell unless you are doing a one off.
Are you honestly making the claim that versatility =/= power?
I read his comments thoroughly and can assure you he doesn't make that claim.
That’s…..certainly a take. By this standard do you also believe wizards are the weakest class?
I bet he doesn't. Given how he both didn't say he does, nor did he say that versatility =/= power either.
Wowsers that’s just hard to read…..
It seems so.
you ALWAYS take wish as your first 9th level if you can.
Welcome to the premise of this thread. Or, at least a correlated question to the one posed by this thread.
The ability to cast ANY 1-8th level spell from every spell list is phenomenally powerful.
Well, it is versatile. But... I think you agree that a 9th level spell is more powerful than a 1st level spell. Right?
Should I segue into asking how you could possibly claim 1st level spells are more powerful than 9th level spells? Is that the type of discourse you want and expect?
Tldr: Foresight is so much better for your 1st 9th level pick.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
They literally state that if you only use it to cast lower level spells, it then is the weakest 9th level spell....
"...you only use it to cast 8th or lower spells. So power wise it is by definition one of the LOWEST 9th level spells."
By inference, they are 100% stating that versatility does not equate to power. Try re-reading their claim again and come back to me.
Edit: And there are many lower level spells that are objectively more effective/powerful than some of the poorly written 9th level spells. And one or two of the 9th level spells are clearly written to be more for NPC use than player use so objectively they are less powerful for a player.
Synaptic Static is nearly always better to cast than Weird.
Time Stop is near useless due to concentration rules and the limitations of Time Stop.
Storm of Vengeance is 99.9% of the time an NPC spell that is sub-optimal for a player to spend their concentration on in combat. 9th level upcast of Call Lightning would almost always serve you better in a combat situation. So yes- absolutely there are lower level spells better than 9th level spells.
Storm of Vengeance is 99.9% of the time an NPC spell that is sub-optimal for a player to spend their concentration on in combat. 9th level upcast of Call Lightning would almost always serve you better in a combat situation. So yes- absolutely there are lower level spells better than 9th level spells.
Maybe it is the 0.1% but I was in a 20th level one shot where storm of vengeance would have been awesome but there were no druids in the party. We were fighting a necromancer who had 2 or 3 reasonably powerful allies but we were also surro7nded by a pit full of very weak undead (left unchecked maybe a dozen would appear per round). I was playing a light cleric and was using turn/destroy undead and fireball to keep them in check but neither could cover anything like the whole area. Storm of vengeance would have wiped them all out so we could concentrate on the bigger guys (SoV would help with that on round 3)
Are you honestly making the claim that versatility =/= power? That’s…..certainly a take. By this standard do you also believe wizards are the weakest class? Wowsers that’s just hard to read…..you ALWAYS take wish as your Yeirst 9th level if you can. The ability to cast ANY 1-8th level spell from every spell list is phenomenally powerful.
Yes I am claiming that versatility is not equal to power. Power is power, versatility is versatility. If you want power, you get power. If you want versatility, get versatility.
You can get a car with a high top speed. You can get a car with a high towing capacity. But the car with the best top speed will never have the best towing capacity. You end up compromising and get something a pretty good top speed and a pretty good towing capacity but that loses in both categories to any car devoted to one of those features.
Wish a a GREAT spell for a pure sorcerer to take. They only know 15 spells (not counting subclasses, feats, races, etc.). Now a 20th level Wizard of int 20 knows 25 wizard plus two from signature spells minimum, not counting feats, races, etc. Or they can boost that significantly by switching out the last level for a one level multiclass dip. That is not counting switching things out every long rest via paying attention to what you are fighitng.
More importantly, True Polymorph gives you 90% of the versatility of Wish. Need to raise the Dead? TP into a Planetar. Need to take out a non-artifact magic item? Become a Conclave Dryad. It is offensive, defensive, and support.
Wizards already have so much versatility they do not need Wish. Sorcerers on the other hand might need it.
Wish is in my opinion, slightly better than all 8th level spells. But no where near the best 9th. A Sorcerer can take it, but my Wizard has already taken Foresight, Prismatic Wall and True Polymorph before I even considered WIsh.
Think it's being overlooked you don't just replicate a lower spell from any spell list (which is still factored as a 9th level as you are still using a 9th level slot and upcasting is part of the spell effect) but the fact you can ignore all casting times and components. Regardless of choice it becomes an Action and only a V component.
Like you can cast Conjure Elemental or something and then wish-replicate Planar Binding. Now that Elemental is your servant for a year and a day. All for free, bar your spell slots. Keep this up every day for a while to amass a large entourage of elementals at your service.
One wish a week for a year gives you a free home base.
Also powerful doesn't just mean strength or damage. Something is powerful if it achieves the wanted result better than similar things. Let's take it your car example: a car that tows and a car that goes fast.
If you want speed, the fast car is more powerful. If you want something moved the towing car is more powerful.
In terms of spell effects, Wish is more powerful because it can do all the spell's effects for free as an action.
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I'll also mention that Wish can also do the same things as any other 9th level spell too. It just means there's a possibility your DM might mess with it and you run a risk of never being able to cast it again.
And you can also do almost anything else you want. Want a spell attack that can do 1,000 damage in a single hit? You can do it. There's potential risks and consequences, but it can be done. The spell can, to an extent, rewrite reality across all planes of existence.
There is a reason the books literally state it is the most powerful spell any mortal can cast.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
No. Versatility is not power. Being able to do more things is not more power, it is more versatility How can you confuse two entirely different words with very different meanings? It's like you think high dex means high strength. Or thinking that a combined force of soldiers, navy, and airforce can make up for the lack of nuclear weapons.
Versatility lets you do more things, Power lets you do one thing BETTER. Things you cannot do with the versatile thing. Yes, versatility is a GOOD thing to have, but it is not power and should not be confused for it. Versatility should be achieved, but not as the first thing you get with your 9th level spell.
Wish can get you a bonus action attack spell, but that spell will always be weaker than Blade of Disaster. Wish can get you a resurrection spell but NOT True Ressurection. Wish can get you a nice Buff spell but NOT Foresight.
Worst, Versatility can be BOUGHT. Get allies, magic items, etc. These things fill out the things you are missing. But you cannot do that with the the most powerful thing around.
In an adventure where you are being challenged, then you will NEED a powerful 9th level spell, not versatility. If you are not being challenged, then you will win eventually. It might take you a day or two to replace that 8th level spell you wish you had prepared, but eventually you will win.
Also powerful doesn't just mean strength or damage. Something is powerful if it achieves the wanted result better than similar things. Let's take it your car example: a car that tows and a car that goes fast.
If you want speed, the fast car is more powerful. If you want something moved the towing car is more powerful.
This is factually incorrect. That's not how power is measured. They literally have a term for this, and it is extremly common knowledge. Horse power.
If you wanted to know which car had more power, it has a rating for that exact thing.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No. Versatility is not power. Being able to do more things is not more power, it is more versatility How can you confuse two entirely different words with very different meanings?
You can have that opinion but it is objectively false from the view of a game design perspective. In TTRPG's, Versatility ABSOLUTELY is power. Every video or design document ever shared by WOTC or even Paizo expresses the philosophy that from the perspective of game balance, versatility is a form of power. It is part of the equation of the power budget for every class. Nowhere is this more evident than the baseline design of Sorcerer vs Wizard (I'm ignoring Tasha's because it has a large amount of power creep which in some ways breaks the original balance of 5e).
Sorcerer has less versatility which is balanced by means of making their spells objectively more powerful via metamagic (Twinning, Disadvantage on the save on demand, Re-rolling Damage die, Break action economy etc) and by starting with proficiency in Constitution which means on average, they will maintain their concentration much more often than a wizard. Wizard has insane versatility literally being the Batman of casters and a strong willed mind balanced by having to stick more closely with the baseline rules of magic and not being able to nova nearly as well as Sorcerer. In fact, versatility is SO POWERFUL, that Wizard has nearly always been considered stronger than Sorcerer even with Sorcerer's many cool advantages.
No. Versatility is not power. Being able to do more things is not more power, it is more versatility How can you confuse two entirely different words with very different meanings?
You can have that opinion but it is objectively false from the view of a game design perspective. In TTRPG's, Versatility ABSOLUTELY is power. Every video or design document ever shared by WOTC or even Paizo expresses the philosophy that from the perspective of game balance, versatility is a form of power. It is part of the equation of the power budget for every class. Nowhere is this more evident than the baseline design of Sorcerer vs Wizard (I'm ignoring Tasha's because it has a large amount of power creep which in some ways breaks the original balance of 5e).
Sorcerer has less versatility which is balanced by means of making their spells objectively more powerful via metamagic (Twinning, Disadvantage on the save on demand, Re-rolling Damage die, Break action economy etc) and by starting with proficiency in Constitution which means on average, they will maintain their concentration much more often than a wizard. Wizard has insane versatility literally being the Batman of casters and a strong willed mind balanced by having to stick more closely with the baseline rules of magic and not being able to nova nearly as well as Sorcerer. In fact, versatility is SO POWERFUL, that Wizard has nearly always been considered stronger than Sorcerer even with Sorcerer's many cool advantages.
Are you sure it is true that versatility "is" power?
Follow-up question: if you weld a trailer hitch to the back of a car, giving it more versatility. How many horsepower does that give it?
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No. Versatility is not power. Being able to do more things is not more power, it is more versatility How can you confuse two entirely different words with very different meanings?
You can have that opinion but it is objectively false from the view of a game design perspective. In TTRPG's, Versatility ABSOLUTELY is power. Every video or design document ever shared by WOTC or even Paizo expresses the philosophy that from the perspective of game balance, versatility is a form of power. It is part of the equation of the power budget for every class. Nowhere is this more evident than the baseline design of Sorcerer vs Wizard (I'm ignoring Tasha's because it has a large amount of power creep which in some ways breaks the original balance of 5e).
Sorcerer has less versatility which is balanced by means of making their spells objectively more powerful via metamagic (Twinning, Disadvantage on the save on demand, Re-rolling Damage die, Break action economy etc) and by starting with proficiency in Constitution which means on average, they will maintain their concentration much more often than a wizard. Wizard has insane versatility literally being the Batman of casters and a strong willed mind balanced by having to stick more closely with the baseline rules of magic and not being able to nova nearly as well as Sorcerer. In fact, versatility is SO POWERFUL, that Wizard has nearly always been considered stronger than Sorcerer even with Sorcerer's many cool advantages.
Are you sure it is true that versatility "is" power?
Follow-up question: if you weld a trailer hitch to the back of a car, giving it more versatility. How many horsepower does that give it?
I am certain that from the perspective of balancing a TTRPG, Versatility is a form of power in the game. Look at it from this perspective- in every online survey or datapoint available, the Wizard class is consistently considered the “strongest,”, the “most powerful,” the “best” class in the game. Let’s examine why?
Are they the only ones with access to 9th level spells? No- there are multiple other full casters.
Do they get more spell slots than everyone else? No- there are multiple other full casters with the ability to recover spells on a short rest giving them similar numbers of total spell output in a day.
Do they have exclusive access to the most powerful spell? They do exclusively get the “Invulnerability” and “Prismatic Wall” spells but judging by even this threads survey, those are not considered the most powerful 9th level spells by the community so having exclusive access would no indicate Wizard as most powerful.
So they don’t exclusively get the most powerful spell slots, the most spell slots or the most powerful spells……so why are they considered the strongest……?
Oh right….because the game designers and the vast, overwhelming majority of the player community knows what a few on this thread seem not to know which is that Wizard being the most versatile also makes them the most powerful.
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Not according to RAW Sage Advice, done when he was getting paid to reply. His specific example was Dimension Door, officially ruling it did NOT work. By extension, Fireball, being an instant spell cannot go through the wall.
Spells that alter the ground or air instantly would similarly not work, according to that rule. But spells that have a duration would work, as the layer only stops things when they are cast, not after.
I do agree with you, however, as a note, Sage Advice is RAI not RAW.
That isn't how I interpret the SAC when it says. "Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium."
There are plenty of places where the PHB and other official rules are not clear and RAW could preasonably interpreted in multiple ways which resulted in debate as to which interpretation was correct. For example Flash of genius says "When you or another creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an ability check or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Intelligence modifier to the roll." it could be interpreted that the artificer decides whether to use a flash of genius before or after the the result of the roll is known. SAC makes it clear that RAW is that flash of genius can be yused after the roll is made (but before the affects of the rolls are applied).
I grant you that there are some things in SAC that applie to rules I thought needed no clarification and some of those go against what I thought. For example I would have thought that Goodberry is a spell that creates berries not one that heals, but SAC states that when a fighter eats a goodberry given them by a Druid / Cleric the druid/cleric is "using" the goodberry spell to restore hit points and is therefore subject to disciple of life. There was clearly some uncertainty in the PHB (or people wouldn't have asked) and this has been clarified in SAC.
RAW = Rules as they are written, word for word, literally. RAI = Interpretation of rules, common sense.
SAC doesn't rewrite the rules, RAW doesn't change, it just shows players and DMs how the rules (are supposed to) work.
Mind you, I mean no disrespect, this is just how I think it works!
Official Rullings are not the same thing as Rules As Written.
They're guidance on how to interpret and implement the rules as written. Aka guidance on their Intent. Aka RAI. Rules as Intended.
That's what RAI is even referring to. A rule being implemented in the way it was intended to work, 'even if' the wording is murky, misleading, or wrong. If the intent is out there, such as through SAC or similar, then you can implement the rules the way they were meant to be implemented even if the wording in the books is funky.
RAW is, on the other hand... the actual text as it appears in the rulebook. And only that. It is the rule... as they are written.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There is some RAW and some RAI in SAC. JC spells it out Here one of the most clear examples is the question Can druids speak in wildshape
Foresight - hands down. Just about everything you do has advantage, enemies attack with disadvantage (which means no sneak attacks). My campaign's 20th level villain was fought 3 times by the group before the campaign ended, and each time that single spell gave them the most trouble.
Groups are good at mitigating damage, so any spell that just does damage won't slow down an organized group of characters, but give them all disadvantage and suddenly all their cool strategies break apart. Sharpshooter? Not with a -5 penalty plus disadavantage. Sneak attack? Not with disadvantage. Force a save onto the villain - oops he gets advantage. PCs with high AC? The villain gets advantage on every attack roll.
Invulnerability is a close second (though there are many ways to break concentration without doing damage, but when cast on a villain can be tough to overcome if the group focused their builds entirely on damage-doing). Nothing makes a min/maxer cry faster than realizing their one-trick-pony build is now useless.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Are you honestly making the claim that versatility =/= power? That’s…..certainly a take. By this standard do you also believe wizards are the weakest class? Wowsers that’s just hard to read…..you ALWAYS take wish as your first 9th level if you can. The ability to cast ANY 1-8th level spell from every spell list is phenomenally powerful.
I read his comments thoroughly and can assure you he doesn't make that claim.
I bet he doesn't. Given how he both didn't say he does, nor did he say that versatility =/= power either.
It seems so.
Welcome to the premise of this thread. Or, at least a correlated question to the one posed by this thread.
Well, it is versatile. But... I think you agree that a 9th level spell is more powerful than a 1st level spell. Right?
Should I segue into asking how you could possibly claim 1st level spells are more powerful than 9th level spells? Is that the type of discourse you want and expect?
Tldr: Foresight is so much better for your 1st 9th level pick.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
They literally state that if you only use it to cast lower level spells, it then is the weakest 9th level spell....
"...you only use it to cast 8th or lower spells. So power wise it is by definition one of the LOWEST 9th level spells."
By inference, they are 100% stating that versatility does not equate to power. Try re-reading their claim again and come back to me.
Edit: And there are many lower level spells that are objectively more effective/powerful than some of the poorly written 9th level spells. And one or two of the 9th level spells are clearly written to be more for NPC use than player use so objectively they are less powerful for a player.
Synaptic Static is nearly always better to cast than Weird.
Time Stop is near useless due to concentration rules and the limitations of Time Stop.
Storm of Vengeance is 99.9% of the time an NPC spell that is sub-optimal for a player to spend their concentration on in combat. 9th level upcast of Call Lightning would almost always serve you better in a combat situation. So yes- absolutely there are lower level spells better than 9th level spells.
Maybe it is the 0.1% but I was in a 20th level one shot where storm of vengeance would have been awesome but there were no druids in the party. We were fighting a necromancer who had 2 or 3 reasonably powerful allies but we were also surro7nded by a pit full of very weak undead (left unchecked maybe a dozen would appear per round). I was playing a light cleric and was using turn/destroy undead and fireball to keep them in check but neither could cover anything like the whole area. Storm of vengeance would have wiped them all out so we could concentrate on the bigger guys (SoV would help with that on round 3)
Yes I am claiming that versatility is not equal to power. Power is power, versatility is versatility. If you want power, you get power. If you want versatility, get versatility.
You can get a car with a high top speed. You can get a car with a high towing capacity. But the car with the best top speed will never have the best towing capacity. You end up compromising and get something a pretty good top speed and a pretty good towing capacity but that loses in both categories to any car devoted to one of those features.
Wish a a GREAT spell for a pure sorcerer to take. They only know 15 spells (not counting subclasses, feats, races, etc.). Now a 20th level Wizard of int 20 knows 25 wizard plus two from signature spells minimum, not counting feats, races, etc. Or they can boost that significantly by switching out the last level for a one level multiclass dip. That is not counting switching things out every long rest via paying attention to what you are fighitng.
More importantly, True Polymorph gives you 90% of the versatility of Wish. Need to raise the Dead? TP into a Planetar. Need to take out a non-artifact magic item? Become a Conclave Dryad. It is offensive, defensive, and support.
Wizards already have so much versatility they do not need Wish. Sorcerers on the other hand might need it.
Wish is in my opinion, slightly better than all 8th level spells. But no where near the best 9th. A Sorcerer can take it, but my Wizard has already taken Foresight, Prismatic Wall and True Polymorph before I even considered WIsh.
Think it's being overlooked you don't just replicate a lower spell from any spell list (which is still factored as a 9th level as you are still using a 9th level slot and upcasting is part of the spell effect) but the fact you can ignore all casting times and components. Regardless of choice it becomes an Action and only a V component.
Like you can cast Conjure Elemental or something and then wish-replicate Planar Binding. Now that Elemental is your servant for a year and a day. All for free, bar your spell slots. Keep this up every day for a while to amass a large entourage of elementals at your service.
One wish a week for a year gives you a free home base.
Also powerful doesn't just mean strength or damage. Something is powerful if it achieves the wanted result better than similar things. Let's take it your car example: a car that tows and a car that goes fast.
If you want speed, the fast car is more powerful. If you want something moved the towing car is more powerful.
In terms of spell effects, Wish is more powerful because it can do all the spell's effects for free as an action.
-
I'll also mention that Wish can also do the same things as any other 9th level spell too. It just means there's a possibility your DM might mess with it and you run a risk of never being able to cast it again.
And you can also do almost anything else you want. Want a spell attack that can do 1,000 damage in a single hit? You can do it. There's potential risks and consequences, but it can be done. The spell can, to an extent, rewrite reality across all planes of existence.
There is a reason the books literally state it is the most powerful spell any mortal can cast.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
No. Versatility is not power. Being able to do more things is not more power, it is more versatility How can you confuse two entirely different words with very different meanings? It's like you think high dex means high strength. Or thinking that a combined force of soldiers, navy, and airforce can make up for the lack of nuclear weapons.
Versatility lets you do more things, Power lets you do one thing BETTER. Things you cannot do with the versatile thing. Yes, versatility is a GOOD thing to have, but it is not power and should not be confused for it. Versatility should be achieved, but not as the first thing you get with your 9th level spell.
Wish can get you a bonus action attack spell, but that spell will always be weaker than Blade of Disaster. Wish can get you a resurrection spell but NOT True Ressurection. Wish can get you a nice Buff spell but NOT Foresight.
Worst, Versatility can be BOUGHT. Get allies, magic items, etc. These things fill out the things you are missing. But you cannot do that with the the most powerful thing around.
In an adventure where you are being challenged, then you will NEED a powerful 9th level spell, not versatility. If you are not being challenged, then you will win eventually. It might take you a day or two to replace that 8th level spell you wish you had prepared, but eventually you will win.
This is factually incorrect. That's not how power is measured. They literally have a term for this, and it is extremly common knowledge. Horse power.
If you wanted to know which car had more power, it has a rating for that exact thing.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You can have that opinion but it is objectively false from the view of a game design perspective. In TTRPG's, Versatility ABSOLUTELY is power. Every video or design document ever shared by WOTC or even Paizo expresses the philosophy that from the perspective of game balance, versatility is a form of power. It is part of the equation of the power budget for every class. Nowhere is this more evident than the baseline design of Sorcerer vs Wizard (I'm ignoring Tasha's because it has a large amount of power creep which in some ways breaks the original balance of 5e).
Sorcerer has less versatility which is balanced by means of making their spells objectively more powerful via metamagic (Twinning, Disadvantage on the save on demand, Re-rolling Damage die, Break action economy etc) and by starting with proficiency in Constitution which means on average, they will maintain their concentration much more often than a wizard. Wizard has insane versatility literally being the Batman of casters and a strong willed mind balanced by having to stick more closely with the baseline rules of magic and not being able to nova nearly as well as Sorcerer. In fact, versatility is SO POWERFUL, that Wizard has nearly always been considered stronger than Sorcerer even with Sorcerer's many cool advantages.
Are you sure it is true that versatility "is" power?
Follow-up question: if you weld a trailer hitch to the back of a car, giving it more versatility. How many horsepower does that give it?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I am certain that from the perspective of balancing a TTRPG, Versatility is a form of power in the game. Look at it from this perspective- in every online survey or datapoint available, the Wizard class is consistently considered the “strongest,”, the “most powerful,” the “best” class in the game. Let’s examine why?
Are they the only ones with access to 9th level spells? No- there are multiple other full casters.
Do they get more spell slots than everyone else? No- there are multiple other full casters with the ability to recover spells on a short rest giving them similar numbers of total spell output in a day.
Do they have exclusive access to the most powerful spell? They do exclusively get the “Invulnerability” and “Prismatic Wall” spells but judging by even this threads survey, those are not considered the most powerful 9th level spells by the community so having exclusive access would no indicate Wizard as most powerful.
So they don’t exclusively get the most powerful spell slots, the most spell slots or the most powerful spells……so why are they considered the strongest……?
Oh right….because the game designers and the vast, overwhelming majority of the player community knows what a few on this thread seem not to know which is that Wizard being the most versatile also makes them the most powerful.