By far it is taking the hide action, unless you have a DM who is very unfriendly toward Rogues.
Attack, move to some kind of cover, take the hide action. In between your turns attacks against you would be at disadvantage. Your attacks now have advantage, and sneak attack applies.
it is by far the best way.
I'm always confused when I see people playing Rogue who don't just end every turn with a Hide attempt. There are times when it's not really an option... maybe you had to use your bonus action to disengage, or dash, or to do something else. Maybe there's no viable hiding places on the battlefield. But if you're a Rogue and you've got the option, there's very few reasons to not at least attempt to hide every single round.
A lot of GMs don't allow you to hide while being actively observed by enemies unless you've got a special ability like the Lightfoot halfling's Naturally Stealthy. It's not RAW for 5E, but it's a common house rule.
It's a common house rule? That's pretty disappointing... why would Rogues be able to hide as a bonus action if they can't do it in combat?
It’s not a house rule, it’s RAW that you can’t try to hide while anyone can see you clearly. If you can get behind total cover, then go to town, of course. But that’s not exactly common, which is why sneak attack is so easy to get without actually needing advantage.
It's a common house rule? That's pretty disappointing... why would Rogues be able to hide as a bonus action if they can't do it in combat?
As SagaTympana said, it's RAW, not a house rule, that you can't hide while observed (although you most certainly can hide in combat). We don't normally answer "why" questions on here, but this is a rare example where we may have a RAW answer to it: the 5E playtest rules did allow you to hide while in only partial cover. It's entirely possible when they removed that they forgot to update entities that relied on the old rules to function. This is also evident in the CR rules for goblins, who get a higher adjustment than simply being permanently invisible, even though a typical goblin will never get the opportunity to hide in most fights due to the lack of total cover or heavy obscurity.
I think I read LyranGuard's post differently than some other people... I took it to mean, "Once the enemy is aware of you, you cannot attempt to hide from them, even if fully obscured". Which, to be fair, now that I think about it, I have seen that come up in some RPG horror stories before, something like... Rogue runs behind a bush and attempts to hide, but the DM doesn't allow them to, even though they're fully obscured... the logic being that the enemy saw them run behind the bush, so obviously knows that they're back there somewhere. However, the rules for hiding simply state that if an enemy can not see you clearly, there is an opportunity to hide.
So that's what I was reacting to... assuming that Lyran was talking about moments where the Rogue was able to get behind Total Cover, but still was not allowed to attempt to Hide.
Attack, then hide as a bonus action. You'll be hidden until you attack on your next turn, which is going to protect you from a lot of bad stuff. And when you do attack, you'll have advantage.
For that opening attack when you haven't hidden yet, count on your allies.
Attack, then hide as a bonus action. You'll be hidden until you attack on your next turn, which is going to protect you from a lot of bad stuff. And when you do attack, you'll have advantage.
For that opening attack when you haven't hidden yet, count on your allies.
That’s exactly what I suggested. One other poster agreed, and one other said it’s rare that you can do that. Obviously it’s DM dependent, but I’m of the mind that’s what’s intended. As long as you’re in a fight with trees, bushes, or large enough objects to make that work.
Think Arrya in Game of Thrones in the famous season 8 white walker scene.
Without hiding in combat being a common thing you can do, the rogue is reduced to being a squishy martial class that does less damage than other martial classes.
Attack, then hide as a bonus action. You'll be hidden until you attack on your next turn, which is going to protect you from a lot of bad stuff. And when you do attack, you'll have advantage.
For that opening attack when you haven't hidden yet, count on your allies.
That’s exactly what I suggested. One other poster agreed, and one other said it’s rare that you can do that. Obviously it’s DM dependent, but I’m of the mind that’s what’s intended. As long as you’re in a fight with trees, bushes, or large enough objects to make that work.
Think Arrya in Game of Thrones in the famous season 8 white walker scene.
Without hiding in combat being a common thing you can do, the rogue is reduced to being a squishy martial class that does less damage than other martial classes.
For sure. Hiding behind walls also works if you're in a dungeon or a building. Hiding in foliage or heavy precipitation works if you're a wood elf, and hiding behind an ally or even an enemy works if you're a lightfoot halfling. Hiding in dim light works if you have Skulker, and hiding in darkness works if you don't -- as long as your opponent doesn't have darkvision, that is. Then you'd need Skulker. Hiding in fog or magical darkness also works, which you might tell your spellcasting allies. Hiding behind illusions is also valid, provided they're big enough. (Edit: I don't think I can cite a rule on that last one.)
Hiding behind an illusion definitely works. interestingly, if you know it’s from minor illusion you can see through it. “It becomes faint“ according to the spell description.
However, if you shoot through it I think it’s reasonable for the DM to say you have exposed it as an illusion, and others will be able to see through it as well.
By far it is taking the hide action, unless you have a DM who is very unfriendly toward Rogues.
Attack, move to some kind of cover, take the hide action. In between your turns attacks against you would be at disadvantage. Your attacks now have advantage, and sneak attack applies.
it is by far the best way.
I'm always confused when I see people playing Rogue who don't just end every turn with a Hide attempt. There are times when it's not really an option... maybe you had to use your bonus action to disengage, or dash, or to do something else. Maybe there's no viable hiding places on the battlefield. But if you're a Rogue and you've got the option, there's very few reasons to not at least attempt to hide every single round.
A lot of GMs don't allow you to hide while being actively observed by enemies unless you've got a special ability like the Lightfoot halfling's Naturally Stealthy. It's not RAW for 5E, but it's a common house rule.
It's a common house rule? That's pretty disappointing... why would Rogues be able to hide as a bonus action if they can't do it in combat?
Probably because of the idea that just because you duck behind a rock, and are no longer visible isn't enough to pull off a hide.
Example: If there is a 6' boulder in the middle of an empty field, and the rogue runs around and uses it to get complete cover, they rule you can't hide, because its obvious where you are.
I get the thinking, but it isn't RAW. I would argue that you ducking out of sight, and hiding (suppressing noise) in a busy combat is enough to lose track of someone.
Without hiding in combat being a common thing you can do, the rogue is reduced to being a squishy martial class that does less damage than other martial classes.
Not really there are plenty of other ways to get sneak attack off, possibly even with advantage. Steady aim, attacking someone next to an allay, attacking someone who has been blinded or hit 2ith faerie fire or a guiding bolt, flanking if you use that rule..... even easier for swashbucklers. Hiding is probably the first choice but if there is nowhere to hide a rogue can still be effective.
Without hiding in combat being a common thing you can do, the rogue is reduced to being a squishy martial class that does less damage than other martial classes.
Not really there are plenty of other ways to get sneak attack off, possibly even with advantage. Steady aim, attacking someone next to an allay, attacking someone who has been blinded or hit 2ith faerie fire or a guiding bolt, flanking if you use that rule..... even easier for swashbucklers. Hiding is probably the first choice but if there is nowhere to hide a rogue can still be effective.
Getting sneak attack is (usually) easy enough. But even with sneak attack the weakness of the rogue is two-fold:
1. Doing less damage than every other martial class (if they're well-built).
2. Being more squishy than every other martial class.
Advantage from being hidden mitigates the damage deficit, and just being hidden mitigates the squishy problem. That's why I suggested hiding in combat being a common thing you can do in combat, but not necessarily something you can do 100% of the time. A class should be balanced without having to rely on allies.
Obviously if the designers made it so you can hide as a bonus action, they intended for you to be able to do it in combat.
Probably because of the idea that just because you duck behind a rock, and are no longer visible isn't enough to pull off a hide.
Example: If there is a 6' boulder in the middle of an empty field, and the rogue runs around and uses it to get complete cover, they rule you can't hide, because its obvious where you are.
I get the thinking, but it isn't RAW. I would argue that you ducking out of sight, and hiding (suppressing noise) in a busy combat is enough to lose track of someone.
There are lots of ways in which the game mechanics (meant for balance) aren't very realistic. You just have to suspend disbelief and use your imagination. The way I envision it is as you said, the Rogue is a master of being sneaky and using misdirection in the chaos of battle to hide in combat, as they pick people off.
It might help these DMs to rethink what hiding means for the purposes of combat. Instead of "I literally don't know where he went," try "I can't see his attack coming."
Because yeah, rogues are supposed to be able to hide in combat. And here's a quick design clue: if somebody's only meant to do something once in a combat, the rules will literally say "you can't do this again until you complete a short rest."
I'm DMing for a rouge in a campaign right now, and you won't believe what she'll do for a Sneak Attack. I always let her use her proficiencies in Acrobatics and Athletics to pull off some really crazy stunts.
One time, this rouge jumped up, threw a grappling hook at a chandelier, started swinging across the room on it by pushing off from the wall while reeling in the grappling hook, and then collided with a flying monster in midair. The result was a sneak attack, which also knocked the monster prone and allowed the barbarian, who was next in initiative, to get in two maul attacks with Advantage, killing the monster. The final joke was on the rogue, though, because the (old and rusted) chandelier then proceeded to collapse under her weight, dropping her 30 feet to the ground and then falling on top of her.
Hands down, that was probably the most memorable sneak attack I've ever seen. There were a few others that impressed me, but that one has to take the cake.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
I'm DMing for a rouge in a campaign right now, and you won't believe what she'll do for a Sneak Attack. I always let her use her proficiencies in Acrobatics and Athletics to pull off some really crazy stunts.
One time, this rouge jumped up, threw a grappling hook at a chandelier, started swinging across the room on it by pushing off from the wall while reeling in the grappling hook, and then collided with a flying monster in midair. The result was a sneak attack, which also knocked the monster prone and allowed the barbarian, who was next in initiative, to get in two maul attacks with Advantage, killing the monster. The final joke was on the rogue, though, because the (old and rusted) chandelier then proceeded to collapse under her weight, dropping her 30 feet to the ground and then falling on top of her.
Hands down, that was probably the most memorable sneak attack I've ever seen. There were a few others that impressed me, but that one has to take the cake.
How much damage did she take?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
I'm DMing for a rouge in a campaign right now, and you won't believe what she'll do for a Sneak Attack. I always let her use her proficiencies in Acrobatics and Athletics to pull off some really crazy stunts.
One time, this rouge jumped up, threw a grappling hook at a chandelier, started swinging across the room on it by pushing off from the wall while reeling in the grappling hook, and then collided with a flying monster in midair. The result was a sneak attack, which also knocked the monster prone and allowed the barbarian, who was next in initiative, to get in two maul attacks with Advantage, killing the monster. The final joke was on the rogue, though, because the (old and rusted) chandelier then proceeded to collapse under her weight, dropping her 30 feet to the ground and then falling on top of her.
Hands down, that was probably the most memorable sneak attack I've ever seen. There were a few others that impressed me, but that one has to take the cake.
How much damage did she take?
I don't remember how much damage the rogue took exactly. Obviously, there was 3d6 damage from the fall, and I think another 5d6 from the chandelier. She was level 12 with 14 CON, so she was fine.
By the way, I forgot to mention, the rogue rolled a critical hit on that particular sneak attack. It was well worth it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Greater invisibility, (1 minute of free advantage)
Shadow blade (arcane trickster)
The high ground (still not sure if that’s a house rule or not)
Find familiar (using Help action, being within 5 feet of the enemy, flanking)
the revamped 1 D&D lucky feat
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
The high ground (still not sure if that’s a house rule or not)
It is a house rule, yes. (Though in extreme cases taking a step or two backwards can actually block line of sight, allowing you to hide and get advantage that way.)
Find familiar (using Help action, being within 5 feet of the enemy, flanking)
I hate the phrase "using the Help action," lol. But yes, a familiar is great for getting Sneak Attack.
Just attacking the same creature that one of your party is next to is enough to get your Sneak Attack damage.
Yea, I guess one of the most complicated, but also one that will work in nearly every battle, is positioning your party. If you are in a forest, you all hide behind trees to confuse the enemy, also positioning to get Your party members near any foes, so it can activate sneak attack without advantage, or to get in a flanking position to get advantage would all work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
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It’s not a house rule, it’s RAW that you can’t try to hide while anyone can see you clearly. If you can get behind total cover, then go to town, of course. But that’s not exactly common, which is why sneak attack is so easy to get without actually needing advantage.
As SagaTympana said, it's RAW, not a house rule, that you can't hide while observed (although you most certainly can hide in combat). We don't normally answer "why" questions on here, but this is a rare example where we may have a RAW answer to it: the 5E playtest rules did allow you to hide while in only partial cover. It's entirely possible when they removed that they forgot to update entities that relied on the old rules to function. This is also evident in the CR rules for goblins, who get a higher adjustment than simply being permanently invisible, even though a typical goblin will never get the opportunity to hide in most fights due to the lack of total cover or heavy obscurity.
I think I read LyranGuard's post differently than some other people... I took it to mean, "Once the enemy is aware of you, you cannot attempt to hide from them, even if fully obscured". Which, to be fair, now that I think about it, I have seen that come up in some RPG horror stories before, something like... Rogue runs behind a bush and attempts to hide, but the DM doesn't allow them to, even though they're fully obscured... the logic being that the enemy saw them run behind the bush, so obviously knows that they're back there somewhere. However, the rules for hiding simply state that if an enemy can not see you clearly, there is an opportunity to hide.
So that's what I was reacting to... assuming that Lyran was talking about moments where the Rogue was able to get behind Total Cover, but still was not allowed to attempt to Hide.
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Pretty much.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Attack, then hide as a bonus action. You'll be hidden until you attack on your next turn, which is going to protect you from a lot of bad stuff. And when you do attack, you'll have advantage.
For that opening attack when you haven't hidden yet, count on your allies.
That’s exactly what I suggested. One other poster agreed, and one other said it’s rare that you can do that. Obviously it’s DM dependent, but I’m of the mind that’s what’s intended. As long as you’re in a fight with trees, bushes, or large enough objects to make that work.
Think Arrya in Game of Thrones in the famous season 8 white walker scene.
Without hiding in combat being a common thing you can do, the rogue is reduced to being a squishy martial class that does less damage than other martial classes.
For sure. Hiding behind walls also works if you're in a dungeon or a building. Hiding in foliage or heavy precipitation works if you're a wood elf, and hiding behind an ally or even an enemy works if you're a lightfoot halfling. Hiding in dim light works if you have Skulker, and hiding in darkness works if you don't -- as long as your opponent doesn't have darkvision, that is. Then you'd need Skulker. Hiding in fog or magical darkness also works, which you might tell your spellcasting allies. Hiding behind illusions is also valid, provided they're big enough. (Edit: I don't think I can cite a rule on that last one.)
Hiding behind an illusion definitely works. interestingly, if you know it’s from minor illusion you can see through it. “It becomes faint“ according to the spell description.
However, if you shoot through it I think it’s reasonable for the DM to say you have exposed it as an illusion, and others will be able to see through it as well.
Probably because of the idea that just because you duck behind a rock, and are no longer visible isn't enough to pull off a hide.
Example: If there is a 6' boulder in the middle of an empty field, and the rogue runs around and uses it to get complete cover, they rule you can't hide, because its obvious where you are.
I get the thinking, but it isn't RAW. I would argue that you ducking out of sight, and hiding (suppressing noise) in a busy combat is enough to lose track of someone.
Not really there are plenty of other ways to get sneak attack off, possibly even with advantage. Steady aim, attacking someone next to an allay, attacking someone who has been blinded or hit 2ith faerie fire or a guiding bolt, flanking if you use that rule..... even easier for swashbucklers. Hiding is probably the first choice but if there is nowhere to hide a rogue can still be effective.
Getting sneak attack is (usually) easy enough. But even with sneak attack the weakness of the rogue is two-fold:
1. Doing less damage than every other martial class (if they're well-built).
2. Being more squishy than every other martial class.
Advantage from being hidden mitigates the damage deficit, and just being hidden mitigates the squishy problem. That's why I suggested hiding in combat being a common thing you can do in combat, but not necessarily something you can do 100% of the time. A class should be balanced without having to rely on allies.
Obviously if the designers made it so you can hide as a bonus action, they intended for you to be able to do it in combat.
There are lots of ways in which the game mechanics (meant for balance) aren't very realistic. You just have to suspend disbelief and use your imagination. The way I envision it is as you said, the Rogue is a master of being sneaky and using misdirection in the chaos of battle to hide in combat, as they pick people off.
It might help these DMs to rethink what hiding means for the purposes of combat. Instead of "I literally don't know where he went," try "I can't see his attack coming."
Because yeah, rogues are supposed to be able to hide in combat. And here's a quick design clue: if somebody's only meant to do something once in a combat, the rules will literally say "you can't do this again until you complete a short rest."
I'm DMing for a rouge in a campaign right now, and you won't believe what she'll do for a Sneak Attack. I always let her use her proficiencies in Acrobatics and Athletics to pull off some really crazy stunts.
One time, this rouge jumped up, threw a grappling hook at a chandelier, started swinging across the room on it by pushing off from the wall while reeling in the grappling hook, and then collided with a flying monster in midair. The result was a sneak attack, which also knocked the monster prone and allowed the barbarian, who was next in initiative, to get in two maul attacks with Advantage, killing the monster. The final joke was on the rogue, though, because the (old and rusted) chandelier then proceeded to collapse under her weight, dropping her 30 feet to the ground and then falling on top of her.
Hands down, that was probably the most memorable sneak attack I've ever seen. There were a few others that impressed me, but that one has to take the cake.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
How much damage did she take?
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
I don't remember how much damage the rogue took exactly. Obviously, there was 3d6 damage from the fall, and I think another 5d6 from the chandelier. She was level 12 with 14 CON, so she was fine.
By the way, I forgot to mention, the rogue rolled a critical hit on that particular sneak attack. It was well worth it.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
some more ways:
Greater invisibility, (1 minute of free advantage)
Shadow blade (arcane trickster)
The high ground (still not sure if that’s a house rule or not)
Find familiar (using Help action, being within 5 feet of the enemy, flanking)
the revamped 1 D&D lucky feat
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
It is a house rule, yes. (Though in extreme cases taking a step or two backwards can actually block line of sight, allowing you to hide and get advantage that way.)
I hate the phrase "using the Help action," lol. But yes, a familiar is great for getting Sneak Attack.
Just attacking the same creature that one of your party is next to is enough to get your Sneak Attack damage.
Yea, I guess one of the most complicated, but also one that will work in nearly every battle, is positioning your party. If you are in a forest, you all hide behind trees to confuse the enemy, also positioning to get Your party members near any foes, so it can activate sneak attack without advantage, or to get in a flanking position to get advantage would all work.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)