For those of you that have played Baldur's Gate: Decent Into Avernus, I am worried that I will pick a character that will rendered sterile due to the opponents in Avernus. Do you think an Assassin Rogue 8/Gloom Stalker Ranger 5 will be able to hold their own down there?
Race: Variant Human Feats: Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, Alert, and something like... Fey Touched/Shadow Touched for the 4th feat
Thanks in advance
PS: Please be careful not to give away any major spoilers :)
How exactly are you planning on going with this build, since you're not going to start at level 13?
It's not going to be completely useless (though, of course, you're going to be fighting a lot of things that are resistant to nonmagical weapons) but I don't think it's a very optimized choice for romping through the first layer of Hell. Which, optimization is not the be-all-end-all of RPGs so you could be just fine, I don't know what parts of playing you enjoy the most.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
For those of you that have played Baldur's Gate: Decent Into Avernus, I am worried that I will pick a character that will rendered sterile due to the opponents in Avernus. Do you think an Assassin Rogue 8/Gloom Stalker Ranger 5 will be able to hold their own down there?
Race: Variant Human Feats: Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, Alert, and something like... Fey Touched/Shadow Touched for the 4th feat
Thanks in advance
PS: Please be careful not to give away any major spoilers :)
I'd have to go through the whole list to try to figure out what to swap it for but personally I don't like the assassin rogue sub class at all. It's way to finicky to be enjoyable (although that is my opinion).
I think we'd need to know the rest of the party before making a call on how well your character will do. Your optimisation is probably less important if you already have Paladins and Clerics in the party (since you're in hell and fighting demons etc), but might be important if everyone else is going for Monks, for example.
I do have to query; all feats and no ASIs? Perhaps you rolled super high on Dex and Connor something, but most characters will want at least one ASI.
Also, one last thing, I think you mean impotent rather than sterile :p
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There's 5 of us: - Sorceror - Cleric - Monk (who plans to go into fighter) - Bard - Me (Rogue/Ranger)
I am going with 4 feats as I rolled 17, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 (whole party is using these numbers). When I add the race/class bonuses my stats are 18 (DEX), 14 (WIS), 14 (CON), 12 (CHA), 11 (INT), 10 (STR).
My aim was ranged damage dealer/stealth scout build, providing Good Berrys for daily party sustenance. Proficient in: Deception, Insight, Investigation, Slight of Hand, Stealth. Expertise in: Perception & persuasion so far, but will add to stealth & Insight at later level.
Order of Feats: Start with Crossbow Expert, then Alert, then Fey/Shadow Touched and Sharpshooter (not sure which order for the last 2 yet).
I was thinking of going to Rogue 4 Assassin first, then Ranger Gloomstalker 4, then Rogue 8, and finally Gloom Stalker 5 for the extra attack.
For those of you that have played Baldur's Gate: Decent Into Avernus, I am worried that I will pick a character that will rendered sterile due to the opponents in Avernus. Do you think an Assassin Rogue 8/Gloom Stalker Ranger 5 will be able to hold their own down there?
Race: Variant Human Feats: Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, Alert, and something like... Fey Touched/Shadow Touched for the 4th feat
Thanks in advance
PS: Please be careful not to give away any major spoilers :)
I am currently playing my first Gloomstalker Ranger and he is at level 4 . I think it would do well. I don't know descent into avernus. but it if takes place a lot in the dark a gloomstalker can excel. but it you have other party members that constantly require a light source it won't help. Rather than taking a feat at level 4 I would suggest bumping the dex up. Mine currently has a Dex of 20 and is +9 to hit with ranged weapons and +7 with rapier. I took disguise self as a spell and that has been handy. Hunters mark has proven to be a significant benefit.
Using Hand Crossbow with crossbow expert potential damage in the second round is 34 hit points. I had a magical round last session and did 32. Ruined the DM's day. Actually better at most things than the Rogue but I let the rogue do it anyway.
If your DM allows it take a look at Elf, Shadow touched. Dark vision out to 60 and gets bumped up when you hit gloomstalker. You get to roll a 1d4 to add to your stealth checks and you can cast some pretty nifty spells.
Normally I agree that Assassin isn't the best option. So much of your power is tied up into that first round of combat and if you roll poorly on your initiative or stealth rolls, it's like not having a subclass. Also, the other subclass features require DM and campaign support. You still get all that rogue skill goodness though but otherwise are not getting much for out of combat from the subclass.
Gloomstalker pairs so incredibly well with Assassin though as it fills a lot of those deficiencies. Your extremely hard to see in darkness because you're invisible to creatures that use darkvision and for those that don't, it's dark! You get a bonus to your initiative equal to your wisdom modifier (alert is still a great option) to help with going first to get that early round nova and you get some spells! Spells can be great for in or out of combat depending on what you take. I'd take mostly out of combat spells but that's me. Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike are all you really need for combat. You can also lay down some really nice support or utility spells to give you more options than just attacking.
With hunter's mark and 3 attacks at advantage and all critically hitting, I think your average damage assuming all your attacks hit is like 85 or something nutty like that. Add 30 if you are daring enough to use sharpshooter for all 3 attacks. Personally I'd make sure you hit at least once before you start doing sharp shooter. You could also take Elvin Accuracy (race permitting) instead of Fey/Shadow Touched to really make sure those attacks are going to hit. You'll still be doing strong damage after that first round with extra attack and the bonus action attack from Crossbow Expert (assuming you don't move hunter's mark).
Arcane trickster would be fine but personally I think Assassin fits the concept way better. You won't be as strong in that first round (by a lot), will be equal after that, but will have some more out of combat shenanigans. Level 9 arcane trickster will be a waste because it steps on the toes of what you already want to do in that first round, attack. The Assassin level 9 feature isn't good either though.
Non-magical attack damage just means you'll need a magical hand crossbow. Otherwise yeah you'll be hurting against those creatures with piercing resistance/immunity. So will any martial character though.
Normally I agree that Assassin isn't the best option. So much of your power is tied up into that first round of combat and if you roll poorly on your initiative or stealth rolls, it's like not having a subclass. Also, the other subclass features require DM and campaign support. You still get all that rogue skill goodness though but otherwise are not getting much for out of combat from the subclass.
Gloomstalker pairs so incredibly well with Assassin though as it fills a lot of those deficiencies. Your extremely hard to see in darkness because you're invisible to creatures that use darkvision and for those that don't, it's dark! You get a bonus to your initiative equal to your wisdom modifier (alert is still a great option) to help with going first to get that early round nova and you get some spells! Spells can be great for in or out of combat depending on what you take. I'd take mostly out of combat spells but that's me. Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike are all you really need for combat. You can also lay down some really nice support or utility spells to give you more options than just attacking.
With hunter's mark and 3 attacks at advantage and all critically hitting, I think your average damage assuming all your attacks hit is like 85 or something nutty like that. Add 30 if you are daring enough to use sharpshooter for all 3 attacks. Personally I'd make sure you hit at least once before you start doing sharp shooter. You could also take Elvin Accuracy (race permitting) instead of Fey/Shadow Touched to really make sure those attacks are going to hit. You'll still be doing strong damage after that first round with extra attack and the bonus action attack from Crossbow Expert (assuming you don't move hunter's mark).
Arcane trickster would be fine but personally I think Assassin fits the concept way better. You won't be as strong in that first round (by a lot), will be equal after that, but will have some more out of combat shenanigans. Level 9 arcane trickster will be a waste because it steps on the toes of what you already want to do in that first round, attack. The Assassin level 9 feature isn't good either though.
Non-magical attack damage just means you'll need a magical hand crossbow. Otherwise yeah you'll be hurting against those creatures with piercing resistance/immunity. So will any martial character though.
Hey bud, thanks for the reply.
However, the question isn't if it's a good build - Generally speaking it's an awesome build!
It's whether this build is going to be weak in the context of Baldur's Gate: Decent Into Avernus where enemies are going to be concentrated in a certain part of the enemy spectrum (Mainly Devil/Demon/Fiends).
You might want to go ranger first - more HP, better armor and weaponry, & spells to help deal with fiends. Then the rogue to fill out the build. You want that extra attack as early as possible. Also, you want access to the magic weapon spell as soon as possible to guarantee having a magic weapon when you need it. Going ranger 2 then rogue 1 gets you most of your needed combat and expert abilities early, I recommend the Druidic warrior fighting style at L2 with primal savagery and shillelagh as the cantrips giving you reliable damage and magic melee weapons early on - this can be changed later but early you are likely to be a frontline fighter like it or not. Then go to ranger 5 to get the gloomstalker abilities ( dread ambusher is nearly as good as assassinate), the alert feat ( I would actually reverse alert and CBE as you will be transitioning from frontline to ranged) and the second attack as well as second level spells (pass w/o trace & magic weapon). Then go rogue full bore. ideally you want a magic breastplate ASAP as well as a magic bow/xbow and a magic staff. For spells I would take zephyr strike over hunters mark - you have a number of ways of getting extra damage but ZS eliminates reaction attacks while you move which can be huge.
This build would probably be fine for Decent into Avernus, but once you get into Above Average into Avernus and Good into Avernus, you'll probably start falling behind. Just keep that in mind, in case your DM plans on taking the campaign that far.
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Every build is fine for almost every adventure... ranger/rogue multiclass tends to be a high damage combo (either consistent or with a first round nova like peak) and a very good skill monkey with a lot of expertise. I assume you are playing from de beginning (its a 1-? campaing normally ending in 13 as suggested, but depends how you play in Avernus itself and how the DM handles the adventure) so keeping your build goal defined its good, but just adapt it to the adventure as you play it.
All build paths and subclasses are possible, as you tend to prioritize getting subclasses, cunning action, 4th level feat (important to your build) and Extra Attack, but you decide which one comes first for you.
As for magical weapons, that fully depends on your DM, the adventure provides what is necessary but is playable either way, but then just prioritize getting the Magic Weapon spell (is 2nd level, concentration, rangers can get it a 5th level, other casters at 3rd or later you could bee-line your levels to get ranger 5th and the spell).
Games like this where you know you'll be dealing with one specific enemy type is great for playing Ranger for Favored Enemy. Getting Advantage on tracking and all Intelligence checks for recalling information will be a huge boon. If you use one of your many opportunities to get expertise in Nature or Arcana, even if you don't have a particularly good INT score you'll be able to know just about anything about any devil you come across.
You might want to go ranger first - more HP, better armor and weaponry, & spells to help deal with fiends. Then the rogue to fill out the build. You want that extra attack as early as possible. Also, you want access to the magic weapon spell as soon as possible to guarantee having a magic weapon when you need it. Going ranger 2 then rogue 1 gets you most of your needed combat and expert abilities early, I recommend the Druidic warrior fighting style at L2 with primal savagery and shillelagh as the cantrips giving you reliable damage and magic melee weapons early on - this can be changed later but early you are likely to be a frontline fighter like it or not. Then go to ranger 5 to get the gloomstalker abilities ( dread ambusher is nearly as good as assassinate), the alert feat ( I would actually reverse alert and CBE as you will be transitioning from frontline to ranged) and the second attack as well as second level spells (pass w/o trace & magic weapon). Then go rogue full bore. ideally you want a magic breastplate ASAP as well as a magic bow/xbow and a magic staff. For spells I would take zephyr strike over hunters mark - you have a number of ways of getting extra damage but ZS eliminates reaction attacks while you move which can be huge.
Thanks for the response. Useful stuff for me to consider for sure!
Quick note... I don't see magic weapon as a spell option? I copied my character and added 5 levels of ranger, but the spell is not on the list.
This build would probably be fine for Decent into Avernus, but once you get into Above Average into Avernus and Good into Avernus, you'll probably start falling behind. Just keep that in mind, in case your DM plans on taking the campaign that far.
Hey mate, thanks for the reply.
I am note entirely clear what you mean by Above Average Decent Into Avernus. This campaign goes from level 1-13
Every build is fine for almost every adventure... ranger/rogue multiclass tends to be a high damage combo (either consistent or with a first round nova like peak) and a very good skill monkey with a lot of expertise. I assume you are playing from de beginning (its a 1-? campaing normally ending in 13 as suggested, but depends how you play in Avernus itself and how the DM handles the adventure) so keeping your build goal defined its good, but just adapt it to the adventure as you play it.
All build paths and subclasses are possible, as you tend to prioritize getting subclasses, cunning action, 4th level feat (important to your build) and Extra Attack, but you decide which one comes first for you.
As for magical weapons, that fully depends on your DM, the adventure provides what is necessary but is playable either way, but then just prioritize getting the Magic Weapon spell (is 2nd level, concentration, rangers can get it a 5th level, other casters at 3rd or later you could bee-line your levels to get ranger 5th and the spell).
Cheers for the info!
Yep, Starting at level 1, running to level 13.
Yo've also said get magic weapon spell, but as I said above, I dont see it on the list of spells for my 5th level ranger. We are using PHB, TCoE, XGtE, MotM source books.
Just note that Devils have, for the most part devil sight, you might want to talk to your DM to see how your Gloomstalker ability reacts with that.
Also, I would suggest Range 5 as soon as possible to get the extra attack in play. It gives that sneak attack an extra chance to land, if nothing else
While the Gloomstalker feature of being invisable in the dark for those using darkvision to see me is cool, it's not a big point for me in this campaign.~ I just wanted my Variant Human to get Darkvision at level 3 :)
In light of what you said, and others, I think I might actually start Rogue 1 and then bee-line for Gloom 5 before then going Rogue 8. I think it's important for my character idea that I start as a Rogue. Plus, I'll have Sneak Attack while I get my 5 levels in Ranger
Games like this where you know you'll be dealing with one specific enemy type is great for playing Ranger for Favored Enemy. Getting Advantage on tracking and all Intelligence checks for recalling information will be a huge boon. If you use one of your many opportunities to get expertise in Nature or Arcana, even if you don't have a particularly good INT score you'll be able to know just about anything about any devil you come across.
Hello bud.
This is an interesting point. However, I don't know how I could RP that in. How would my character know about devils enough for them to be his fav enemy?
For the most part, I'd like to RP and for it to make sense that I can do or know things.
Hi all,
For those of you that have played Baldur's Gate: Decent Into Avernus, I am worried that I will pick a character that will rendered sterile due to the opponents in Avernus.
Do you think an Assassin Rogue 8/Gloom Stalker Ranger 5 will be able to hold their own down there?
Race: Variant Human
Feats: Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, Alert, and something like... Fey Touched/Shadow Touched for the 4th feat
Thanks in advance
PS: Please be careful not to give away any major spoilers :)
How exactly are you planning on going with this build, since you're not going to start at level 13?
It's not going to be completely useless (though, of course, you're going to be fighting a lot of things that are resistant to nonmagical weapons) but I don't think it's a very optimized choice for romping through the first layer of Hell. Which, optimization is not the be-all-end-all of RPGs so you could be just fine, I don't know what parts of playing you enjoy the most.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'd have to go through the whole list to try to figure out what to swap it for but personally I don't like the assassin rogue sub class at all. It's way to finicky to be enjoyable (although that is my opinion).
I think we'd need to know the rest of the party before making a call on how well your character will do. Your optimisation is probably less important if you already have Paladins and Clerics in the party (since you're in hell and fighting demons etc), but might be important if everyone else is going for Monks, for example.
I do have to query; all feats and no ASIs? Perhaps you rolled super high on Dex and Connor something, but most characters will want at least one ASI.
Also, one last thing, I think you mean impotent rather than sterile :p
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Thanks for the replies.
There's 5 of us:
- Sorceror
- Cleric
- Monk (who plans to go into fighter)
- Bard
- Me (Rogue/Ranger)
I am going with 4 feats as I rolled 17, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 (whole party is using these numbers).
When I add the race/class bonuses my stats are 18 (DEX), 14 (WIS), 14 (CON), 12 (CHA), 11 (INT), 10 (STR).
My aim was ranged damage dealer/stealth scout build, providing Good Berrys for daily party sustenance.
Proficient in: Deception, Insight, Investigation, Slight of Hand, Stealth.
Expertise in: Perception & persuasion so far, but will add to stealth & Insight at later level.
Order of Feats: Start with Crossbow Expert, then Alert, then Fey/Shadow Touched and Sharpshooter (not sure which order for the last 2 yet).
I was thinking of going to Rogue 4 Assassin first, then Ranger Gloomstalker 4, then Rogue 8, and finally Gloom Stalker 5 for the extra attack.
Maybe I should go with Arcane Trickster instead of Assassin...?
Though that doesn't really address the issue of non-magical attack damage
I am currently playing my first Gloomstalker Ranger and he is at level 4 . I think it would do well. I don't know descent into avernus. but it if takes place a lot in the dark a gloomstalker can excel. but it you have other party members that constantly require a light source it won't help. Rather than taking a feat at level 4 I would suggest bumping the dex up. Mine currently has a Dex of 20 and is +9 to hit with ranged weapons and +7 with rapier. I took disguise self as a spell and that has been handy. Hunters mark has proven to be a significant benefit.
Using Hand Crossbow with crossbow expert potential damage in the second round is 34 hit points. I had a magical round last session and did 32. Ruined the DM's day. Actually better at most things than the Rogue but I let the rogue do it anyway.
If your DM allows it take a look at Elf, Shadow touched. Dark vision out to 60 and gets bumped up when you hit gloomstalker. You get to roll a 1d4 to add to your stealth checks and you can cast some pretty nifty spells.
Normally I agree that Assassin isn't the best option. So much of your power is tied up into that first round of combat and if you roll poorly on your initiative or stealth rolls, it's like not having a subclass. Also, the other subclass features require DM and campaign support. You still get all that rogue skill goodness though but otherwise are not getting much for out of combat from the subclass.
Gloomstalker pairs so incredibly well with Assassin though as it fills a lot of those deficiencies. Your extremely hard to see in darkness because you're invisible to creatures that use darkvision and for those that don't, it's dark! You get a bonus to your initiative equal to your wisdom modifier (alert is still a great option) to help with going first to get that early round nova and you get some spells! Spells can be great for in or out of combat depending on what you take. I'd take mostly out of combat spells but that's me. Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike are all you really need for combat. You can also lay down some really nice support or utility spells to give you more options than just attacking.
With hunter's mark and 3 attacks at advantage and all critically hitting, I think your average damage assuming all your attacks hit is like 85 or something nutty like that. Add 30 if you are daring enough to use sharpshooter for all 3 attacks. Personally I'd make sure you hit at least once before you start doing sharp shooter. You could also take Elvin Accuracy (race permitting) instead of Fey/Shadow Touched to really make sure those attacks are going to hit. You'll still be doing strong damage after that first round with extra attack and the bonus action attack from Crossbow Expert (assuming you don't move hunter's mark).
Arcane trickster would be fine but personally I think Assassin fits the concept way better. You won't be as strong in that first round (by a lot), will be equal after that, but will have some more out of combat shenanigans. Level 9 arcane trickster will be a waste because it steps on the toes of what you already want to do in that first round, attack. The Assassin level 9 feature isn't good either though.
Non-magical attack damage just means you'll need a magical hand crossbow. Otherwise yeah you'll be hurting against those creatures with piercing resistance/immunity. So will any martial character though.
Hey bud, thanks for the reply.
However, the question isn't if it's a good build - Generally speaking it's an awesome build!
It's whether this build is going to be weak in the context of Baldur's Gate: Decent Into Avernus where enemies are going to be concentrated in a certain part of the enemy spectrum (Mainly Devil/Demon/Fiends).
You might want to go ranger first - more HP, better armor and weaponry, & spells to help deal with fiends. Then the rogue to fill out the build. You want that extra attack as early as possible. Also, you want access to the magic weapon spell as soon as possible to guarantee having a magic weapon when you need it. Going ranger 2 then rogue 1 gets you most of your needed combat and expert abilities early, I recommend the Druidic warrior fighting style at L2 with primal savagery and shillelagh as the cantrips giving you reliable damage and magic melee weapons early on - this can be changed later but early you are likely to be a frontline fighter like it or not. Then go to ranger 5 to get the gloomstalker abilities ( dread ambusher is nearly as good as assassinate), the alert feat ( I would actually reverse alert and CBE as you will be transitioning from frontline to ranged) and the second attack as well as second level spells (pass w/o trace & magic weapon). Then go rogue full bore.
ideally you want a magic breastplate ASAP as well as a magic bow/xbow and a magic staff. For spells I would take zephyr strike over hunters mark - you have a number of ways of getting extra damage but ZS eliminates reaction attacks while you move which can be huge.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
This build would probably be fine for Decent into Avernus, but once you get into Above Average into Avernus and Good into Avernus, you'll probably start falling behind. Just keep that in mind, in case your DM plans on taking the campaign that far.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Every build is fine for almost every adventure... ranger/rogue multiclass tends to be a high damage combo (either consistent or with a first round nova like peak) and a very good skill monkey with a lot of expertise. I assume you are playing from de beginning (its a 1-? campaing normally ending in 13 as suggested, but depends how you play in Avernus itself and how the DM handles the adventure) so keeping your build goal defined its good, but just adapt it to the adventure as you play it.
All build paths and subclasses are possible, as you tend to prioritize getting subclasses, cunning action, 4th level feat (important to your build) and Extra Attack, but you decide which one comes first for you.
As for magical weapons, that fully depends on your DM, the adventure provides what is necessary but is playable either way, but then just prioritize getting the Magic Weapon spell (is 2nd level, concentration, rangers can get it a 5th level, other casters at 3rd or later you could bee-line your levels to get ranger 5th and the spell).
Just note that Devils have, for the most part devil sight, you might want to talk to your DM to see how your Gloomstalker ability reacts with that.
Also, I would suggest Range 5 as soon as possible to get the extra attack in play. It gives that sneak attack an extra chance to land, if nothing else
Games like this where you know you'll be dealing with one specific enemy type is great for playing Ranger for Favored Enemy. Getting Advantage on tracking and all Intelligence checks for recalling information will be a huge boon. If you use one of your many opportunities to get expertise in Nature or Arcana, even if you don't have a particularly good INT score you'll be able to know just about anything about any devil you come across.
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Thanks for the response.
Useful stuff for me to consider for sure!
Quick note... I don't see magic weapon as a spell option?
I copied my character and added 5 levels of ranger, but the spell is not on the list.
Hey mate, thanks for the reply.
I am note entirely clear what you mean by Above Average Decent Into Avernus.
This campaign goes from level 1-13
Cheers for the info!
Yep,
Starting at level 1, running to level 13.
Yo've also said get magic weapon spell, but as I said above, I dont see it on the list of spells for my 5th level ranger.
We are using PHB, TCoE, XGtE, MotM source books.
While the Gloomstalker feature of being invisable in the dark for those using darkvision to see me is cool, it's not a big point for me in this campaign.~
I just wanted my Variant Human to get Darkvision at level 3 :)
In light of what you said, and others, I think I might actually start Rogue 1 and then bee-line for Gloom 5 before then going Rogue 8.
I think it's important for my character idea that I start as a Rogue.
Plus, I'll have Sneak Attack while I get my 5 levels in Ranger
Hello bud.
This is an interesting point.
However, I don't know how I could RP that in.
How would my character know about devils enough for them to be his fav enemy?
For the most part, I'd like to RP and for it to make sense that I can do or know things.
You're looking at it backwards: you learn about devils by training to fight them.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.