So I have a 2nd level Goliath Ranger, who uses Archery as fighting style, with a 17 dex and 15 wisdom. At third level I will take Gloom Stalker. Interested in oppinions on raising his Dex to 18 and Wisdom to 16 verse Sharp shooter feat at 4th level. If I increase the stats my attack roll goes up, Initiative goes up by 1 for the dex and 1 for the Wisdom(Gloom Stalker). Armor class goes up as well by 1. skill checks get better for almost all my relevant skills. But sharp shooter is super helpful as well. I plan on staying a ranger to 5th level to get the 2nd attack and then going fighter so my next chance at feat or stat bump will be 9th lvl.
Any opinions on which will make me more effective?
Sharpshooter is a great feat. But the bonus damage is useless if you miss. I would up your stats with your level 4 ASI and then take the feat at level 8 - unless your game is ending at or around that point in which case taking the feat will be more fun.
I agree with Beardsinger. Sharpshooter is best when you have the option for many attacks since if you miss one it doesn't matter as much. And as you say, the ASi will get you more things and especially (at least to me) things that are useful outside of combat, which Sharpshooter isn't. As a side note, since Extra Attack doesn't stack that 5th level of Fighter (when you eventually get there) will be rather empty. That said, Fighter 6 will give you another ASI so it's not a complete waste. Ranger lvl 5 is really useful though since it gives you access to two of the best Ranger spells, Enhance Ability and Pass without a trace.
I actually think that sharpshooter is better because it will almost always be worth taking the penalty. Additionally, it lets you ignore long range and cover, which is huge. Also, extra attack won't be far behind when you take sharpshooter so even if you miss your first attack, you might hit your second. Finally, let's look at your bonus. You will soon have a +8 bonus--a +3 from dex, +3 from proficiency(at level 5), a and a +2 from Archery. Despite the -5 penalty, you'll still have a +3 to hit.
I'd take the ability scores here. You'll get higher modifiers in two ability scores at once, improving almost everything you do as a ranger--better attack, better damage, better armor class, better skills, better saves, better magic.
Sharpshooter has some nice benefits, but they're much more situational. How often do you think you're going to need to fire your longbow (assuming you're using one) from farther than 150 feet? How much are you really seeing enemies hiding behind cover that you can't get around otherwise? How often are you rolling 5 higher than your target's armor class? If these kinds of things are happening a lot, then it might be worth considering, but otherwise...
Largely agree about ability scores here, but I would also consider a half feat that would raise one or the other of those odd attributes, while giving you something. E.g. you could take Piercer and get your Dex to 18 along with the bonus damage, or you could take Observant, and get your Wisdom to 16, along with the awesome powers of observation that sure make sense for a ranger.
I am thinking Gloom Stalker Ranger and Rune Knight Fighter. It goes well with the Goliath's being distant relation to Giants. Plus some pretty cool Runes.
Makes a lot of sense.. Glad I asked for help. Seems like everyone sees the stats as more benifical at this level.
It is often beneficial to take a feat at level 4 over raising you primary stat, however asa ranger you have 2 prmary stats (even if Dex is the more important) and with an with both of those currently odd you are effectively getting 2 ASIs for the price of 1 and that beats any feat.
Ah yes, the run for the second attack and what do often give up for that run? So let’s take a look - assuming the campaign ends after reaching L12: * A L12 ranger ( I know your not going there but bear with me) gets a second attack at L5 and 3 ASIs * A L12 Fighter gets a second attack at L5 and a third at L11 and 4 ASIs * A L5 Ranger/L7 Fighter gets a second attack at R5 and 3 ASIs while the second attack at F5 is lost but you do get a ranger L2 spell (pass w/o trace?) + A L3 Ranger/L9 Fighter delays their second attack to F5 (L8) but gets 4 ASIs and the fighter L8 (the 4 th ASI) and L9 (indomitable) abilities
As a multiclass your never going to get that 3rd attack and either way your getting the L7 fighter subclass ability so the question really is which is more valuable the early 2nd attack and the L2 spell or indomitable and a 4th ASI ?
If you can stand it I would at least consider taking 2 levels of fighter now to get action surge and a second fighting style then take Ranger 3. Gloomstalker gives you an extra attack with extra damage on the first round of combat which helps with the delay in the second attack and darkvision and improved initiative never hurt. Then back to fighter, I’ve never been impressed with rune knight but it’s your character not mine. At fighter 4 I would take the ASI, then F5 gives me the 2 attacks each round (+ the gloomstalker 3rd attack now in round 1 and an action surge extra double attack each short rest). F6 gives a feat (sharpshooter?), F7 gives you the 3rd rune, F8 provides another feat/ASI ( that you only get this way) and F9 gives you indomitable. You don’t get much n the way of ranger spells - no L2 spell and no L5 gloomstalker spells (pass w/o trace? And rope trick) but you do get an extra ASI/feat and indomitable.
If you can stand it I would at least consider taking 2 levels of fighter now to get action surge and a second fighting style then take Ranger 3. Gloomstalker gives you an extra attack with extra damage on the first round of combat which helps with the delay in the second attack and darkvision and improved initiative never hurt. Then back to fighter, I’ve never been impressed with rune knight but it’s your character not mine. At fighter 4 I would take the ASI, then F5 gives me the 2 attacks each round (+ the gloomstalker 3rd attack now in round 1 and an action surge extra double attack each short rest). F6 gives a feat (sharpshooter?), F7 gives you the 3rd rune, F8 provides another feat/ASI ( that you only get this way) and F9 gives you indomitable. You don’t get much n the way of ranger spells - no L2 spell and no L5 gloomstalker spells (pass w/o trace? And rope trick) but you do get an extra ASI/feat and indomitable.
there you go the choice is yours.
Thank you. The campaign is Rim of Frost. I have a feeling pass with out trace might come in handy as we get deeper into it and rope trick cold be a short rest to charge certaint party skills for all the classes. Than again it might not be worth giving up ASI's and Indomitable. I like Rune Knight for the flavor of it but some of the runes do allow excellent one time(more if you short rest) like a party member takes a crit that drops them but my reaction shifts that attack to a foe with in 30 feet of me instead of the party member. 120 foot dark vision with Sharp shooter out in the frozen tundra before enemies can arrive could be nice and a plus d6 oncce per turn for giant strength.
That said I havent played since 3.5 so if you have a fav fighter subclass id love to hear about it.
My complaint with rune knight is that the number of runes and uses is severely limited. 2 runes ( 3 at L7) that, while having a useful long term ability each, have a single use short term ability per rest. Even the giants might ability is limited to PB/Long rest so basically 2-4 uses per day.the actual abilities aren’t bad but they are severely limited in number of uses. Like the Ranger’s Zephyr strike spell you have to choose it not for the single use ability but for the ongoing powers it allows. That is really my complaint with all the fighter subclasses - really limited abilities after you get heavy armor and action surge. Champion gets a crit on a 19/20 and some boosts to some athletics abilities, Battle Master gets 4 maneuvers (5 at L7) per short rest, arcane archer only gets a couple of special shots per short rest etc.
I might consider switching to barbarian instead of fighter a storm Harold (tundra) barbarian would certainly fit the story arc. That or just go Gloomstalker all the way. If your set on fighter then rune knight is fine.
I’ll definitely look into storm herold. I’m pre planning as I get closer to these choices but nothing is written in stone. Well I guess runes are written in stone lol!
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So I have a 2nd level Goliath Ranger, who uses Archery as fighting style, with a 17 dex and 15 wisdom. At third level I will take Gloom Stalker. Interested in oppinions on raising his Dex to 18 and Wisdom to 16 verse Sharp shooter feat at 4th level. If I increase the stats my attack roll goes up, Initiative goes up by 1 for the dex and 1 for the Wisdom(Gloom Stalker). Armor class goes up as well by 1. skill checks get better for almost all my relevant skills. But sharp shooter is super helpful as well. I plan on staying a ranger to 5th level to get the 2nd attack and then going fighter so my next chance at feat or stat bump will be 9th lvl.
Any opinions on which will make me more effective?
Sharpshooter is a great feat. But the bonus damage is useless if you miss. I would up your stats with your level 4 ASI and then take the feat at level 8 - unless your game is ending at or around that point in which case taking the feat will be more fun.
I agree with Beardsinger. Sharpshooter is best when you have the option for many attacks since if you miss one it doesn't matter as much. And as you say, the ASi will get you more things and especially (at least to me) things that are useful outside of combat, which Sharpshooter isn't. As a side note, since Extra Attack doesn't stack that 5th level of Fighter (when you eventually get there) will be rather empty. That said, Fighter 6 will give you another ASI so it's not a complete waste. Ranger lvl 5 is really useful though since it gives you access to two of the best Ranger spells, Enhance Ability and Pass without a trace.
BTW, what Fighter subclass are you going for?
I actually think that sharpshooter is better because it will almost always be worth taking the penalty. Additionally, it lets you ignore long range and cover, which is huge. Also, extra attack won't be far behind when you take sharpshooter so even if you miss your first attack, you might hit your second. Finally, let's look at your bonus. You will soon have a +8 bonus--a +3 from dex, +3 from proficiency(at level 5), a and a +2 from Archery. Despite the -5 penalty, you'll still have a +3 to hit.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
I'd take the ability scores here. You'll get higher modifiers in two ability scores at once, improving almost everything you do as a ranger--better attack, better damage, better armor class, better skills, better saves, better magic.
Sharpshooter has some nice benefits, but they're much more situational. How often do you think you're going to need to fire your longbow (assuming you're using one) from farther than 150 feet? How much are you really seeing enemies hiding behind cover that you can't get around otherwise? How often are you rolling 5 higher than your target's armor class? If these kinds of things are happening a lot, then it might be worth considering, but otherwise...
Odd attribute scores FTL. Especially when they are your primary physical stat and primary casting stat.
Largely agree about ability scores here, but I would also consider a half feat that would raise one or the other of those odd attributes, while giving you something. E.g. you could take Piercer and get your Dex to 18 along with the bonus damage, or you could take Observant, and get your Wisdom to 16, along with the awesome powers of observation that sure make sense for a ranger.
I am thinking Gloom Stalker Ranger and Rune Knight Fighter. It goes well with the Goliath's being distant relation to Giants. Plus some pretty cool Runes.
Those are excellent ideas as well. TY
Makes a lot of sense.. Glad I asked for help. Seems like everyone sees the stats as more benifical at this level.
It is often beneficial to take a feat at level 4 over raising you primary stat, however asa ranger you have 2 prmary stats (even if Dex is the more important) and with an with both of those currently odd you are effectively getting 2 ASIs for the price of 1 and that beats any feat.
Thanks. I believe we will be lvl 12 when it ends assuming we survive
Sound thinking
Thank you. I keep going back and forth.
Ah yes, the run for the second attack and what do often give up for that run? So let’s take a look - assuming the campaign ends after reaching L12:
* A L12 ranger ( I know your not going there but bear with me) gets a second attack at L5 and 3 ASIs
* A L12 Fighter gets a second attack at L5 and a third at L11 and 4 ASIs
* A L5 Ranger/L7 Fighter gets a second attack at R5 and 3 ASIs while the second attack at F5 is lost but you do get a ranger L2 spell (pass w/o trace?)
+ A L3 Ranger/L9 Fighter delays their second attack to F5 (L8) but gets 4 ASIs and the fighter L8 (the 4 th ASI) and L9 (indomitable) abilities
As a multiclass your never going to get that 3rd attack and either way your getting the L7 fighter subclass ability so the question really is which is more valuable the early 2nd attack and the L2 spell or indomitable and a 4th ASI ?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
A lot of good info Wi1dBi11
If you can stand it I would at least consider taking 2 levels of fighter now to get action surge and a second fighting style then take Ranger 3. Gloomstalker gives you an extra attack with extra damage on the first round of combat which helps with the delay in the second attack and darkvision and improved initiative never hurt. Then back to fighter, I’ve never been impressed with rune knight but it’s your character not mine. At fighter 4 I would take the ASI, then F5 gives me the 2 attacks each round (+ the gloomstalker 3rd attack now in round 1 and an action surge extra double attack each short rest). F6 gives a feat (sharpshooter?), F7 gives you the 3rd rune, F8 provides another feat/ASI ( that you only get this way) and F9 gives you indomitable.
You don’t get much n the way of ranger spells - no L2 spell and no L5 gloomstalker spells (pass w/o trace? And rope trick) but you do get an extra ASI/feat and indomitable.
there you go the choice is yours.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Thank you. The campaign is Rim of Frost. I have a feeling pass with out trace might come in handy as we get deeper into it and rope trick cold be a short rest to charge certaint party skills for all the classes. Than again it might not be worth giving up ASI's and Indomitable. I like Rune Knight for the flavor of it but some of the runes do allow excellent one time(more if you short rest) like a party member takes a crit that drops them but my reaction shifts that attack to a foe with in 30 feet of me instead of the party member. 120 foot dark vision with Sharp shooter out in the frozen tundra before enemies can arrive could be nice and a plus d6 oncce per turn for giant strength.
That said I havent played since 3.5 so if you have a fav fighter subclass id love to hear about it.
My complaint with rune knight is that the number of runes and uses is severely limited. 2 runes ( 3 at L7) that, while having a useful long term ability each, have a single use short term ability per rest. Even the giants might ability is limited to PB/Long rest so basically 2-4 uses per day.the actual abilities aren’t bad but they are severely limited in number of uses. Like the Ranger’s Zephyr strike spell you have to choose it not for the single use ability but for the ongoing powers it allows. That is really my complaint with all the fighter subclasses - really limited abilities after you get heavy armor and action surge. Champion gets a crit on a 19/20 and some boosts to some athletics abilities, Battle Master gets 4 maneuvers (5 at L7) per short rest, arcane archer only gets a couple of special shots per short rest etc.
I might consider switching to barbarian instead of fighter a storm Harold (tundra) barbarian would certainly fit the story arc. That or just go Gloomstalker all the way. If your set on fighter then rune knight is fine.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I’ll definitely look into storm herold. I’m pre planning as I get closer to these choices but nothing is written in stone. Well I guess runes are written in stone lol!