All, my kids are interested in trying out DnD for the first time, and I personally haven't played for years. They are both on the younger end and are fully interested in the damage dealer, what kid doesn't want to be a ax swinging barbarian?
That means that with just three of us starting out I'm looking for a one character support role to handle heals, face, rogue, etc functions. I'm thinking College of Lore Bard/Rogue (sub-class?) but I'd really like suggestions for a true jack of all trade support class that can lead a couple of damage dealers around successfully.
If they're truly keen on barbarians then the key with those guys is healing. Some characters avoid being targeted, some avoid getting hit but barbarians just have a load of hit points. Unfortunately that means it take a lot of healing to get them back up to scratch.
Bards are great for the party face and some healing. Consider College of Spirits as Spiritual Focus can let you add a D6 to healing and their "Tales from Beyond" can give temporary hit points or heal as well.
But if you really want to hit the healing then, as always, you can't go past a Cleric of the Life Domain. Since the meat shields are intending to get up and deal the damage, you can set the Cleric up to ignore trying to deal damage and put some points into Charisma so you're a bit of a party face. Be a variant human and get more skill proficiencies with feats if you need them.
The next one would be Paladin Oath of Redemption which can get some healing done and with Charisma as the main stat, you can help as party face. He'll prance around in heavy armor and get closer to the battle as well if needs be.
One level of Rogue, with the rest of your levels in Lore Bard gives you a really good start on skill proficiencies and spells for all situations, which I'd focus on Utility and battlefield control spells that strongly turn the odds in your favor, but still lets your kids get most of the finishing blows.
A Mark of Hospitality Halfling Life Cleric gives you the best healer in the game without multiclassing or using Strixhaven backgrounds, since your Goodberries heal 4hp each when made with L1 slots, and each casting creates 10 of them, and you can end each day by spending your remaining spell slots to create a bunch of Goodberries, all of which last 24 hours from the time of their creation, so the next day you have a full set of spell slots, plus however many Goodberries you made the previous evening. This will help you keep the Barbarians in good health without relying extensively on short rests for spending Hit Dice. The Cleric also has good spells on their list, so you can choose your preference of utility and support spells for it.
I'd steer clear of Fighters, Paladins, and full Rogues, because they have a lot of potential to overshadow the Barbarians' output if optimized more than the Barbarians are.
I ask, because if they're old enough, and you are DM'ing, it might be better to let each kid have a sidekick. They're simplified characters, designed to be run alongside a PC, by a player. Rules for them are in Tasha's, and they can help round out the party. You can give one to each kid (a healer type, and a skill type). Then you can focus on running the game, and you can sneakily give them a chance to try out a different kind of character. It can also give the kids a chance to have a second character to incorporate into their backstory, which can be pretty fun.
The kids are 10 and 12. Yes I was going to try and DM and play their safety net simultaneously (I realize the irony of this, we are attempting to dip their toes in the game and see if they are as interested to actually play as they are excited to try it). The kids aren't dead set on barbarians, that was just an example, they are just far more interested in RPing warrior types with swords or axes, there is little interest in magic, stealth, or support skills at this point. I'm also Ok with this as I think that's probably easiest for them to start with.
Your suggestion of each having a pocket healer or pocket skill character is one I haven't considered. I've never played with or seen a game with sidekicks. Other than what's in the rules do you have any suggestions to learn how they run?
If I do build a Bard/Rogue does taking Rogue to 3 for a sub-class add anything? Is there a subclass that stands out in a skill support capacity?
You being the DM, definitely don't be the face of the party. Even if the characters your kids pick aren't good at persuasion, write out the scenarios that they can still accomplish what they need to.
If you want to be a support/skill monkey, my suggestion would be a Warforged Artificer in the service of their characters, rather than a full character. That lets your kids take the lead in interacting with your NPCs, instead of you roleplaying against yourself while they just watch, which doesn't go well. Artificers have healing spells and can create magic items that you could give the other characters, and Artificers are also proficient with Thieves Tools, so you can unlock doors for the party when they decide not to just break them down.
I am not a fan of DM PCs it should be the kids PCs that are the heroes.
For skills I would just lower the DCs so they have an appreciate chance of succeeding.
For healing you could adopt the epic heroism optional rule though this give far more healing than and support character. Alternatively just provide them with enough healing potions to get someone up if they go unconcious and allow them to recover all their hit dice on a long rest, If it gets to the point where that is not enough give them a magic item such as a staff of healing (homebrewed so it can be attuned by anyone).
You might want to suggest that someone gets thieves tools proficiency through their background.
You might want to suggest that someone gets thieves tools proficiency through their background.
Thieves' tools are only necessary if you want to leave things intact. Barbarians in particular tend to be proficient in opening locked things. As for traps, most enemies won't use them and it makes for more interesting flavor on the ones that do if they actually have an effect instead of just a die roll to disarm.
If one of your kids want to or could handle magic they could multiclass warrior and sorcerer as a hobgoblin, gaining proficiency in medium armor and any 2 weapons, and give them an axe as a focus. Warriors get action surge allowing spells and melee in the same turn.
Give him a helm of teleportation so he can get to the group at any time he is needed.
I disagree. If LotR were a D&D campaign, The Hobbits would be Tier 1 characters, most of the others would be Tier 2 characters, but Gandalf would be Tier 4. He shows up several times to rescue the other characters, and as a DM, you don't want to put yourself in a position where the player-characters have to be rescued by your DM PC.
I would personally stear clear of Clerics and Paladins all-together for an NPC traveling with the party. The best course of action would probably be to have a couple Sidekicks that the DM roleplays in the downtime, but the players control in combat. That way you can roleplay with them, but your completely free of the risk of overshadowing the players in combat.
If you want to play a full character alongside them who sometimes takes the lead... then it's time to find a potential DM at a local gaming store who will run a game for you.
I said play him like Gandalf. I never said he had to have his equal powers.
Two or three levels higher would be enough to give him the ability to heal everyone in the party once a day. Other than that he could have another group who needs more hand holding or a church with a lot of needy parishioners.
All, my kids are interested in trying out DnD for the first time, and I personally haven't played for years. They are both on the younger end and are fully interested in the damage dealer, what kid doesn't want to be a ax swinging barbarian?
That means that with just three of us starting out I'm looking for a one character support role to handle heals, face, rogue, etc functions. I'm thinking College of Lore Bard/Rogue (sub-class?) but I'd really like suggestions for a true jack of all trade support class that can lead a couple of damage dealers around successfully.
Thanks!
I'd advise against a "do it all" support character. Because even if the kids want to play damage dealers, you should encourage them to engage with all aspects of the game even if their characters aren't "the best" at it. Barbarians since Tasha's get a lot of skill proficiencies so while they aren't "the best" they can be decent at many aspects of the game not just damage dealing. Paladins likewise have lots of support and utility as well as damage dealing. Plus in my experience young kids are far less inhibited than more adults so will just jump into the RP and social aspects of the game regardless of how "good" their character's stats are, and any DM who isn't a heartless monster is going to allow kids to succeed a stuff even if they don't roll a 20+ skill check every time. D&D is a social game, the social contract between the players, each other and DM is crucial to having a good game experience especially with kids who often want to go beyond the stated rules of the game and let the creativity flow which is a beautiful thing (honestly wish more adults could play beyond the confines of the character sheet like kids do).
What I would advise is building an awesome healer to keep your skullcrushing kids up and playing rather than being KOed or stuck with debilitating conditions, so I'd recommend a straight Twilight Cleric build.
Having read the rest of this thread... I'm even more certain DO NOT PLAY THE FACE! RPing with yourself for social encounters feels awful for everyone involved, and TBH don't have a PC at all! DM PCs are toxic and bad for the game. Instead have a whole cast of NPCs that act as guides for the players though different story arcs. They might be the quest giver, or a local sage, or a literal wilderness guide. But an NPC that knows the area, and has a few skills that can supplement the party for what is needed in that particular story arc - e.g. for a heist arc an NPC thief who is good at picking locks and disarming traps who knows about a secret entrance where the party can sneak in without too much difficulty. For a wilderness survival / traveling arc, then a local forest ranger with high survival who knows the safe paths through the woods.
But most of all, if you've got an unbalanced party it is because a certain aspect of the game appeals to your party more than others which means to give them a good experience play into that aspect, give them the sorts of challenges their characters are good at, don't create challenges that only your DMPC an solve that's no fun for anyone!
But most of all, if you've got an unbalanced party it is because a certain aspect of the game appeals to your party more than others which means to give them a good experience play into that aspect, give them the sorts of challenges their characters are good at, don't create challenges that only your DMPC an solve that's no fun for anyone!
To add to this, as the DM you have the power to create the encounters for the party. We see the same happen elsewhere in entertainment. Batman isn't given problems he can't solve with money and planning, Goku isn't given problems he can't punch his way through, etc. The meat of the adventuring needs to be the players' decisions. Any NPCs that help them for legs of the journey need to be timid, a flash in the pan to do what they're good at, then leaving for the real heroes to finish the job.
For example, if you give them a haunted mansion, and want to give them an expert on ghosts who also picks locks, maybe make the NPC an apprentice librarian, and instead of knowing everything they need, he took books from the Library, and being more intellectually minded, he can answer questions they have if they take ten minutes to stop and let him research. His skill in picking locks is one he developed because he's accidentally locked his keys in a room multiple times. And when scary things happen, he runs to safety, returning only when the threat is dealt with.
If your expert fights alongside the party with exactly the abilities/tools needed, it starts to steal the spotlight from the players. That's why I suggest if you want NPCs to join the combats, make Sidekicks, and let the players control them in combat.
I'd say the optimal support character - age dependant - is a pseudo dragon with some bard levels. Let the kids rock the damage, and have the support provide humor, heals and occasional wisdom to keep them on the right track.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
An Aasimar Lore Bard with the Urchin background with give you the ability to heal, face, buff and with Thieves Tools proficiency allow you to pick lock and disarm trap and thus would fit such support role nicely as their shady guardian angel ☺
To me, being the DM means you have the ability to customize things to suit the party. Not sure what races and such you have available, but you could, if you need, create a genuine heal bot (Autognome Cleric) who doesn't speak much and only mends wounds. Talk to them a bit out of character about how they COULD handle some social stuff (Intimidation, persuasion and such) and allow alternate abilities to add to the rolls (Str for Intimidation is a classic example) Locks, as mentioned, Barbarians tend to smash, or a background, as mentioned, could be fine for Thieves' Tools. Barbarians often have decent Dex, so have a good chance at success.
Also as a DM, you can pretty easily make sure there are lots of healing potions around, so they can easily top up after fights. Magic items to help other things (skeleton key, adds +4 to lockpicking or some such) can be homebrewed as well, further increasing their independence. All in all, the more you leave on their shoulders, the better. To echo wat several others have said, being DM AND party face is going to be really awkward.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
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All, my kids are interested in trying out DnD for the first time, and I personally haven't played for years. They are both on the younger end and are fully interested in the damage dealer, what kid doesn't want to be a ax swinging barbarian?
That means that with just three of us starting out I'm looking for a one character support role to handle heals, face, rogue, etc functions. I'm thinking College of Lore Bard/Rogue (sub-class?) but I'd really like suggestions for a true jack of all trade support class that can lead a couple of damage dealers around successfully.
Thanks!
If they're truly keen on barbarians then the key with those guys is healing. Some characters avoid being targeted, some avoid getting hit but barbarians just have a load of hit points. Unfortunately that means it take a lot of healing to get them back up to scratch.
Bards are great for the party face and some healing. Consider College of Spirits as Spiritual Focus can let you add a D6 to healing and their "Tales from Beyond" can give temporary hit points or heal as well.
But if you really want to hit the healing then, as always, you can't go past a Cleric of the Life Domain. Since the meat shields are intending to get up and deal the damage, you can set the Cleric up to ignore trying to deal damage and put some points into Charisma so you're a bit of a party face. Be a variant human and get more skill proficiencies with feats if you need them.
The next one would be Paladin Oath of Redemption which can get some healing done and with Charisma as the main stat, you can help as party face. He'll prance around in heavy armor and get closer to the battle as well if needs be.
One level of Rogue, with the rest of your levels in Lore Bard gives you a really good start on skill proficiencies and spells for all situations, which I'd focus on Utility and battlefield control spells that strongly turn the odds in your favor, but still lets your kids get most of the finishing blows.
A Mark of Hospitality Halfling Life Cleric gives you the best healer in the game without multiclassing or using Strixhaven backgrounds, since your Goodberries heal 4hp each when made with L1 slots, and each casting creates 10 of them, and you can end each day by spending your remaining spell slots to create a bunch of Goodberries, all of which last 24 hours from the time of their creation, so the next day you have a full set of spell slots, plus however many Goodberries you made the previous evening. This will help you keep the Barbarians in good health without relying extensively on short rests for spending Hit Dice. The Cleric also has good spells on their list, so you can choose your preference of utility and support spells for it.
I'd steer clear of Fighters, Paladins, and full Rogues, because they have a lot of potential to overshadow the Barbarians' output if optimized more than the Barbarians are.
Are you DM'ing, and how old are your kids.
I ask, because if they're old enough, and you are DM'ing, it might be better to let each kid have a sidekick. They're simplified characters, designed to be run alongside a PC, by a player. Rules for them are in Tasha's, and they can help round out the party. You can give one to each kid (a healer type, and a skill type). Then you can focus on running the game, and you can sneakily give them a chance to try out a different kind of character. It can also give the kids a chance to have a second character to incorporate into their backstory, which can be pretty fun.
The kids are 10 and 12. Yes I was going to try and DM and play their safety net simultaneously (I realize the irony of this, we are attempting to dip their toes in the game and see if they are as interested to actually play as they are excited to try it). The kids aren't dead set on barbarians, that was just an example, they are just far more interested in RPing warrior types with swords or axes, there is little interest in magic, stealth, or support skills at this point. I'm also Ok with this as I think that's probably easiest for them to start with.
Your suggestion of each having a pocket healer or pocket skill character is one I haven't considered. I've never played with or seen a game with sidekicks. Other than what's in the rules do you have any suggestions to learn how they run?
If I do build a Bard/Rogue does taking Rogue to 3 for a sub-class add anything? Is there a subclass that stands out in a skill support capacity?
You being the DM, definitely don't be the face of the party. Even if the characters your kids pick aren't good at persuasion, write out the scenarios that they can still accomplish what they need to.
If you want to be a support/skill monkey, my suggestion would be a Warforged Artificer in the service of their characters, rather than a full character. That lets your kids take the lead in interacting with your NPCs, instead of you roleplaying against yourself while they just watch, which doesn't go well. Artificers have healing spells and can create magic items that you could give the other characters, and Artificers are also proficient with Thieves Tools, so you can unlock doors for the party when they decide not to just break them down.
I am not a fan of DM PCs it should be the kids PCs that are the heroes.
For skills I would just lower the DCs so they have an appreciate chance of succeeding.
For healing you could adopt the epic heroism optional rule though this give far more healing than and support character. Alternatively just provide them with enough healing potions to get someone up if they go unconcious and allow them to recover all their hit dice on a long rest, If it gets to the point where that is not enough give them a magic item such as a staff of healing (homebrewed so it can be attuned by anyone).
You might want to suggest that someone gets thieves tools proficiency through their background.
Thieves' tools are only necessary if you want to leave things intact. Barbarians in particular tend to be proficient in opening locked things. As for traps, most enemies won't use them and it makes for more interesting flavor on the ones that do if they actually have an effect instead of just a die roll to disarm.
Cleric of life is the best option.
Play him like Gandalf, not there all the time.
Give him a helm of teleportation so he can get to the group at any time he is needed.
If one of your kids want to or could handle magic they could multiclass warrior and sorcerer as a hobgoblin, gaining proficiency in medium armor and any 2 weapons, and give them an axe as a focus. Warriors get action surge allowing spells and melee in the same turn.
Also they could go paladin has they have some healing, good armor, and amazing burst damage.
I disagree. If LotR were a D&D campaign, The Hobbits would be Tier 1 characters, most of the others would be Tier 2 characters, but Gandalf would be Tier 4. He shows up several times to rescue the other characters, and as a DM, you don't want to put yourself in a position where the player-characters have to be rescued by your DM PC.
I would personally stear clear of Clerics and Paladins all-together for an NPC traveling with the party. The best course of action would probably be to have a couple Sidekicks that the DM roleplays in the downtime, but the players control in combat. That way you can roleplay with them, but your completely free of the risk of overshadowing the players in combat.
If you want to play a full character alongside them who sometimes takes the lead... then it's time to find a potential DM at a local gaming store who will run a game for you.
I said play him like Gandalf. I never said he had to have his equal powers.
Two or three levels higher would be enough to give him the ability to heal everyone in the party once a day.
Other than that he could have another group who needs more hand holding or a church with a lot of needy parishioners.
I'd advise against a "do it all" support character. Because even if the kids want to play damage dealers, you should encourage them to engage with all aspects of the game even if their characters aren't "the best" at it. Barbarians since Tasha's get a lot of skill proficiencies so while they aren't "the best" they can be decent at many aspects of the game not just damage dealing. Paladins likewise have lots of support and utility as well as damage dealing. Plus in my experience young kids are far less inhibited than more adults so will just jump into the RP and social aspects of the game regardless of how "good" their character's stats are, and any DM who isn't a heartless monster is going to allow kids to succeed a stuff even if they don't roll a 20+ skill check every time. D&D is a social game, the social contract between the players, each other and DM is crucial to having a good game experience especially with kids who often want to go beyond the stated rules of the game and let the creativity flow which is a beautiful thing (honestly wish more adults could play beyond the confines of the character sheet like kids do).
What I would advise is building an awesome healer to keep your skullcrushing kids up and playing rather than being KOed or stuck with debilitating conditions, so I'd recommend a straight Twilight Cleric build.
Having read the rest of this thread... I'm even more certain DO NOT PLAY THE FACE! RPing with yourself for social encounters feels awful for everyone involved, and TBH don't have a PC at all! DM PCs are toxic and bad for the game. Instead have a whole cast of NPCs that act as guides for the players though different story arcs. They might be the quest giver, or a local sage, or a literal wilderness guide. But an NPC that knows the area, and has a few skills that can supplement the party for what is needed in that particular story arc - e.g. for a heist arc an NPC thief who is good at picking locks and disarming traps who knows about a secret entrance where the party can sneak in without too much difficulty. For a wilderness survival / traveling arc, then a local forest ranger with high survival who knows the safe paths through the woods.
But most of all, if you've got an unbalanced party it is because a certain aspect of the game appeals to your party more than others which means to give them a good experience play into that aspect, give them the sorts of challenges their characters are good at, don't create challenges that only your DMPC an solve that's no fun for anyone!
To add to this, as the DM you have the power to create the encounters for the party. We see the same happen elsewhere in entertainment. Batman isn't given problems he can't solve with money and planning, Goku isn't given problems he can't punch his way through, etc. The meat of the adventuring needs to be the players' decisions. Any NPCs that help them for legs of the journey need to be timid, a flash in the pan to do what they're good at, then leaving for the real heroes to finish the job.
For example, if you give them a haunted mansion, and want to give them an expert on ghosts who also picks locks, maybe make the NPC an apprentice librarian, and instead of knowing everything they need, he took books from the Library, and being more intellectually minded, he can answer questions they have if they take ten minutes to stop and let him research. His skill in picking locks is one he developed because he's accidentally locked his keys in a room multiple times. And when scary things happen, he runs to safety, returning only when the threat is dealt with.
If your expert fights alongside the party with exactly the abilities/tools needed, it starts to steal the spotlight from the players. That's why I suggest if you want NPCs to join the combats, make Sidekicks, and let the players control them in combat.
How old are your kids?
I'd say the optimal support character - age dependant - is a pseudo dragon with some bard levels. Let the kids rock the damage, and have the support provide humor, heals and occasional wisdom to keep them on the right track.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
An Aasimar Lore Bard with the Urchin background with give you the ability to heal, face, buff and with Thieves Tools proficiency allow you to pick lock and disarm trap and thus would fit such support role nicely as their shady guardian angel ☺
To me, being the DM means you have the ability to customize things to suit the party. Not sure what races and such you have available, but you could, if you need, create a genuine heal bot (Autognome Cleric) who doesn't speak much and only mends wounds. Talk to them a bit out of character about how they COULD handle some social stuff (Intimidation, persuasion and such) and allow alternate abilities to add to the rolls (Str for Intimidation is a classic example) Locks, as mentioned, Barbarians tend to smash, or a background, as mentioned, could be fine for Thieves' Tools. Barbarians often have decent Dex, so have a good chance at success.
Also as a DM, you can pretty easily make sure there are lots of healing potions around, so they can easily top up after fights. Magic items to help other things (skeleton key, adds +4 to lockpicking or some such) can be homebrewed as well, further increasing their independence. All in all, the more you leave on their shoulders, the better. To echo wat several others have said, being DM AND party face is going to be really awkward.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.