I haven't gotten to really play a Paladin in 5E yet, but i'm thinking that will be my first build when I jump on the Baldur's Gate 3 train. (Possibly with an eventual multi-class to Sorceror.)
But i keep reading the book, and seeing how many of the Paladin spells require Concentration. Then I keep seeing how many Paladin spells require somatic motions, even while most Paladins are carrying either have shields or two-handed weapons.
So I have to ask everyone - how do you even PLAY a Paladin if you DIDN'T have War Caster?
Honestly? You probably won't be casting that many in-combat spells as a Paladin. You've got good armor, you can heal with Lay on Hands without spellcasting restrictions, and it's a lot easier to just use your spell slots for Divine Smites rather than bother casting spells.
Oh, and I almost forgot... a Paladin can use a Shield as a spellcasting focus.
Honestly? You probably won't be casting that many in-combat spells as a Paladin. You've got good armor, you can heal with Lay on Hands without spellcasting restrictions, and it's a lot easier to just use your spell slots for Divine Smites rather than bother casting spells.
Oh, and I almost forgot... a Paladin can use a Shield as a spellcasting focus.
Oh, i get that the materials are covered. But the hand gestures aren't.
Also - don't we usually like to charge into battle with some helpful Concentration spell buff to get the most out of the smiting?
Oh right! I completely forgot that spells with Somatic components can only be cast by your hand holding the Spellcasting Focus if the spell also includes Material components. I think you're definitely correct that Paladins benefit more from feats like Spellcaster than other classes would.
So it's not that big a deal if you don't have War Caster. If your sword is out, sheathing it is a free action. Then your hand is free. Most of the time, the spell that requires the somantic component will cost an action and that means you can't attack with your weapon anyway. On your next turn, assuming you want to use the attack action, pull out your sword using your free action and attack. It's only a problem if you want to do something else with your free action. I like resiliant con better than war caster for paladins personally (especially if you have an odd con stat). War Caster obviously makes casting easier, but it's by no means required. I multi-classed with a few levels of Sorcerer, didn't take war caster, and never missed it.
So it's not that big a deal if you don't have War Caster. If your sword is out, sheathing it is a free action. Then your hand is free. Most of the time, the spell that requires the somantic component will cost an action and that means you can't attack with your weapon anyway. On your next turn, assuming you want to use the attack action, pull out your sword using your free action and attack. It's only a problem if you want to do something else with your free action. I like resiliant con better than war caster for paladins personally (especially if you have an odd con stat). War Caster obviously makes casting easier, but it's by no means required. I multi-classed with a few levels of Sorcerer, didn't take war caster, and never missed it.
This is helpful.
Question about your own experiences - when you charged in with your Paladin, did you usually have a concentration buff spell going? If so, which ones? Did you ever lose concentration?
Well, if you’re worried about it in the context of BG3, don’t worry at all. The video game does not follow the component rules. Not any of them. You can have your hands full and cast freely. You can cast revivify without any diamonds, etc. They just dropped the whole component subsystem. Warcaster ( in bg3) gives you advantage on concentration checks, and lets you cast a spell as an opportunity attack, and is still pretty useful, mostly for the advantage.
As far as tabletop, about the only time you cast a spell is find steed, and that’s out of combat. Otherwise, once in a blue moon you’ll cast something, but very rarely.
Many (like Xalthu) use nearly all their spell slots to divine smite so you don't need warcaster then,
A lot of the Paladin spells that are marked as requiring concentration rarely do in practice (other than preventing you maintain cencentration in another spell). An example is wrathful smite. Normally you will cast this as a bonus action and then make an attack with your action (attacks is you are level 5+) the spell ends if you hit so the concentration, you are only going to potentialy need ot make concentration saves if you fail to hit during your turn, which, at least after you get extra attack, will be fairly rare. Heroism is slightly different, it is usually cast on a frightened allay to end the frightened condition, keeping them immune to frightened and the temp HP is nice to continue while you maintain concentration but losing it isn;t a disaster.
Con saves protection is important if you are going to be doing a lot of support casting spells like bless and aura of vitality but I don't think that is the best use of a Paladin. Rememeber once you get to level you add your Cha to all your saves so you are likely to have a +5 or +6 to con saves at that point even without a feat.
Check with your DM about components, they might rule that if you want to cast a somantic spell like cure wounds or lesser restoration you need to use your object interaction to sheath your sword leaving you unarmed until the start of your next turn unable ot use your sword for something like an op attack, in my experiance this is rare but it is my understanding orf RAW. Even if that is the case though I don't think it makes warcaster a must have.
If I used a concentration spell, it would really depend on the situation. Bless, protection from good/evil, or shield of faith were the once I frequently chose.
There are a good number of quality Paladin spells that fit well in combat that only have a verbal component.
Some of the Smite spells that require concentration you cast as a BA before you make your attack. So generally you will use up the spell immediately and won't carry the concentration past the round.
As others have stated, taking Resilient for CON gives you proficiency with the save and then Aura of Protection allows you to add your CON CHA modifier to saving throws. War Caster is a nice feat, don't get me wrong. But you can build a Paladin where your play style doesn't make this an essential need.
There are a good number of quality Paladin spells that fit well in combat that only have a verbal component.
Some of the Smite spells that require concentration you cast as a BA before you make your attack. So generally you will use up the spell immediately and won't carry the concentration past the round.
As others have stated, taking Resilient for CON gives you proficiency with the save and then Aura of Protection allows you to add your CON modifier to saving throws. War Caster is a nice feat, don't get me wrong. But you can build a Paladin where your play style doesn't make this an essential need.
Just a quick clarification there: Aura of Protection adds your Charisma mondifier not your Con.
I'm a Paladin and honestly I always to the most damage with Thunderous smite witch is + 2d6 to any weapons to use it is also a bonus action if you cast it so you can use it after I usually use it with my greatsword witch does 4d6
I'm a Paladin and honestly I always to the most damage with Thunderous smite witch is + 2d6 to any weapons to use it is also a bonus action if you cast it so you can use it after I usually use it with my greatsword witch does 4d6
And that's cool, but hypothetically if you cast it just before combat started (since it lasts a minute), you might lose it if you get hit before you use it, because it is a Concentration spell.
Your understanding of Concentration Spells is correct. If you are concentrating on a spell and take damage, you must make a CON saving throw. If you fail then you lose concentration.
Your understanding of Concentration Spells is correct. If you are concentrating on a spell and take damage, you must make a CON saving throw. If you fail then you lose concentration.
Gotcha. Yeah, in practical terms, Concentration spells cast as a bonus action and then used immediately wouldn't be a problem. I guess i was just looking at other Concentration spells that might be longer-term.
Warcaster is only a good add for a paladin if you got a really good spell in mind for your opportunity attacks. Otherwise you're not getting a whole lot out of the feat.
You're going to very few spells to concentrate on in practice, but when you do you'll have both con and cha getting added to those saves. You're not really needing more or better concentration protection.
If you fight with a 2hander you don't need the weapon holding clause, since you do have a free hand while not attacking because you can absolutely hold a 2hander in 1 hand, you just can't attack with it like that. So unless you're sword and board, this does nothing. But even if you are sword and board you can just sheath your sword as a free item interact to cast, if you even needed to cast a S spell with no M. Unlikely. So this part doesn't help much either.
Then last you can cast spells as opportunity attacks which sounds great until you actually look at the paladin spell list. Which of these is 1. Even eligible. 2. Better than the attack would have been? Like, none of them.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Been playing a Paladin from level 2 to his current level of 18. Single class Ancients. Went Centaur Sword and Board. Hands for casting has never been an issue.
I'm personally very low on the smite spells. They don't do enough compared to a regular smite, take your bonus action and means you can't concentrate on something else more impactful from turn 1 of combat. I would look to fill out your bonus action with an attack through a feat, species or weapon choice.
Once you do that you really only care about casting one spell a combat (and a lot of times its better to just start attacking and cast no spells). Just cast the spell before you draw your weapon and there is no issue.
Aura of Protection does a lot to protect concentration. If you want an added layer grab res con because paladins have a hard time supporting con on top of str/cha.
The only paladin builds that need war caster are ones that multiclass for Shield and Absorb Elements. If you're not doing that then don't worry about it.
I haven't gotten to really play a Paladin in 5E yet, but i'm thinking that will be my first build when I jump on the Baldur's Gate 3 train. (Possibly with an eventual multi-class to Sorceror.)
But i keep reading the book, and seeing how many of the Paladin spells require Concentration. Then I keep seeing how many Paladin spells require somatic motions, even while most Paladins are carrying either have shields or two-handed weapons.
So I have to ask everyone - how do you even PLAY a Paladin if you DIDN'T have War Caster?
Honestly? You probably won't be casting that many in-combat spells as a Paladin. You've got good armor, you can heal with Lay on Hands without spellcasting restrictions, and it's a lot easier to just use your spell slots for Divine Smites rather than bother casting spells.
Oh, and I almost forgot... a Paladin can use a Shield as a spellcasting focus.
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Oh, i get that the materials are covered. But the hand gestures aren't.
Also - don't we usually like to charge into battle with some helpful Concentration spell buff to get the most out of the smiting?
Oh right! I completely forgot that spells with Somatic components can only be cast by your hand holding the Spellcasting Focus if the spell also includes Material components. I think you're definitely correct that Paladins benefit more from feats like Spellcaster than other classes would.
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So it's not that big a deal if you don't have War Caster. If your sword is out, sheathing it is a free action. Then your hand is free. Most of the time, the spell that requires the somantic component will cost an action and that means you can't attack with your weapon anyway. On your next turn, assuming you want to use the attack action, pull out your sword using your free action and attack. It's only a problem if you want to do something else with your free action. I like resiliant con better than war caster for paladins personally (especially if you have an odd con stat). War Caster obviously makes casting easier, but it's by no means required. I multi-classed with a few levels of Sorcerer, didn't take war caster, and never missed it.
This is helpful.
Question about your own experiences - when you charged in with your Paladin, did you usually have a concentration buff spell going? If so, which ones? Did you ever lose concentration?
Thank you.
Well, if you’re worried about it in the context of BG3, don’t worry at all. The video game does not follow the component rules. Not any of them. You can have your hands full and cast freely. You can cast revivify without any diamonds, etc. They just dropped the whole component subsystem.
Warcaster ( in bg3) gives you advantage on concentration checks, and lets you cast a spell as an opportunity attack, and is still pretty useful, mostly for the advantage.
As far as tabletop, about the only time you cast a spell is find steed, and that’s out of combat. Otherwise, once in a blue moon you’ll cast something, but very rarely.
There are different ways of playing a paladin
Many (like Xalthu) use nearly all their spell slots to divine smite so you don't need warcaster then,
A lot of the Paladin spells that are marked as requiring concentration rarely do in practice (other than preventing you maintain cencentration in another spell). An example is wrathful smite. Normally you will cast this as a bonus action and then make an attack with your action (attacks is you are level 5+) the spell ends if you hit so the concentration, you are only going to potentialy need ot make concentration saves if you fail to hit during your turn, which, at least after you get extra attack, will be fairly rare. Heroism is slightly different, it is usually cast on a frightened allay to end the frightened condition, keeping them immune to frightened and the temp HP is nice to continue while you maintain concentration but losing it isn;t a disaster.
Con saves protection is important if you are going to be doing a lot of support casting spells like bless and aura of vitality but I don't think that is the best use of a Paladin. Rememeber once you get to level you add your Cha to all your saves so you are likely to have a +5 or +6 to con saves at that point even without a feat.
Check with your DM about components, they might rule that if you want to cast a somantic spell like cure wounds or lesser restoration you need to use your object interaction to sheath your sword leaving you unarmed until the start of your next turn unable ot use your sword for something like an op attack, in my experiance this is rare but it is my understanding orf RAW. Even if that is the case though I don't think it makes warcaster a must have.
If I used a concentration spell, it would really depend on the situation. Bless, protection from good/evil, or shield of faith were the once I frequently chose.
For two handed weapons we have always ruled that you don't need two hands to hold it, only to attack with it.
So we just let go of it with the other hand and pew pew spells.
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There are a good number of quality Paladin spells that fit well in combat that only have a verbal component.
Some of the Smite spells that require concentration you cast as a BA before you make your attack. So generally you will use up the spell immediately and won't carry the concentration past the round.
As others have stated, taking Resilient for CON gives you proficiency with the save and then Aura of Protection allows you to add your
CONCHA modifier to saving throws. War Caster is a nice feat, don't get me wrong. But you can build a Paladin where your play style doesn't make this an essential need.Just a quick clarification there: Aura of Protection adds your Charisma mondifier not your Con.
My bad. Yes, I mean to type Charisma.
I'm a Paladin and honestly I always to the most damage with Thunderous smite witch is + 2d6 to any weapons to use it is also a bonus action if you cast it so you can use it after I usually use it with my greatsword witch does 4d6
Not many. The various smite spells, compelled duel and command (the ones you'd be casting mid-melee) are are V only.
And that's cool, but hypothetically if you cast it just before combat started (since it lasts a minute), you might lose it if you get hit before you use it, because it is a Concentration spell.
Or do i have it wrong?
Your understanding of Concentration Spells is correct. If you are concentrating on a spell and take damage, you must make a CON saving throw. If you fail then you lose concentration.
Gotcha. Yeah, in practical terms, Concentration spells cast as a bonus action and then used immediately wouldn't be a problem. I guess i was just looking at other Concentration spells that might be longer-term.
Thanks.
Warcaster is only a good add for a paladin if you got a really good spell in mind for your opportunity attacks. Otherwise you're not getting a whole lot out of the feat.
You're going to very few spells to concentrate on in practice, but when you do you'll have both con and cha getting added to those saves. You're not really needing more or better concentration protection.
If you fight with a 2hander you don't need the weapon holding clause, since you do have a free hand while not attacking because you can absolutely hold a 2hander in 1 hand, you just can't attack with it like that. So unless you're sword and board, this does nothing. But even if you are sword and board you can just sheath your sword as a free item interact to cast, if you even needed to cast a S spell with no M. Unlikely. So this part doesn't help much either.
Then last you can cast spells as opportunity attacks which sounds great until you actually look at the paladin spell list. Which of these is 1. Even eligible. 2. Better than the attack would have been? Like, none of them.
So what are we even getting? Basically nothing.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Been playing a Paladin from level 2 to his current level of 18. Single class Ancients. Went Centaur Sword and Board. Hands for casting has never been an issue.
I'm personally very low on the smite spells. They don't do enough compared to a regular smite, take your bonus action and means you can't concentrate on something else more impactful from turn 1 of combat. I would look to fill out your bonus action with an attack through a feat, species or weapon choice.
Once you do that you really only care about casting one spell a combat (and a lot of times its better to just start attacking and cast no spells). Just cast the spell before you draw your weapon and there is no issue.
Aura of Protection does a lot to protect concentration. If you want an added layer grab res con because paladins have a hard time supporting con on top of str/cha.
The only paladin builds that need war caster are ones that multiclass for Shield and Absorb Elements. If you're not doing that then don't worry about it.