What class would be best to destroy a spellcaster? i have a friend who believes in their supremacy, and although i agree theyre better than melee in 5e, he called my rogue i was making useless, so now i want to destroy him. the research I did before making this post led me to conclude that sentinel and mage slayer would be useful, but im unsure about class and race for this build. (probably variant human for the feat, and debating between rogue and monk) Any recommendations on ways to obliderate him? we start at level 4 :)
Honestly that simply isn't how the game is designed. It is a cooperative game and so it isn't balanced with PvP in mind.
Also, saying that someone's character is useless is just toxic. Aside from the fact that it is simply and objectively not true, the only reason to say something like that is to belittle and aggravate the player.
TLDR: Whoever said this is not worth playing with, let alone engaging with on their level.
There's a few ways to approach this. I'm going to stick to options that don't use magic at all, in the true spirit of putting magic users in their place.
As a Rogue, you can choose the Inquisitive subclass from Xanathar's Guide to Everything; this allows you to use your Sneak Attack without having advantage on the roll by setting up with a bonus action. Pick Expertise in Insight to help make sure this feature works. If they don't have Shocking Grasp, then Sentinel or Mage Slayer is great for this build. If they do, consider Weapon Proficiency in the Longbow or Heavy Crossbow, and Sharpshooter if you can get it.
As a Monk, you can take Mage Slayer and Way of the Open Hand to become a spellcaster's nightmare. Knock them prone with Way of the Open Hand to limit their movement, attempt Stunning Strikes whenever possible (including as Mage Slayer reactions). With perpetual advantage on your attacks, they should run out of HP way before you run out of Ki.
As a Fighter, pick Battlemaster. Choose proficiency in Athletics. Take Disarming Attack and Pushing Attack. (Remember that both of these work with ranged weapon attacks if necessary.) Use the first to make them drop their spellcasting focus; use the second to push them 15 feet away. Pick up their spellcasting focus. Run. They will never catch you on their feeble Wizard legs.
(You can also do this last one on any class via the Martial Initiate feat; just pick Disarming Strike and soak their opportunity attack when you run away. You'll only get one Superiority Die this way though, so make it count)
P.S. You can make any of these builds even stronger by playing as a Gnome (for advantage against Cha, Int, and Wis saves) a Goblin (for advantage against being Charmed and Bonus Action dash), or a Yuan-Ti (for the way Yuan-Ti are nonsense). I don't strictly recommend this unless you want to play one of those species anyway. If you use one of these options, your friend might come to the mistaken conclusion that they lost because of your species advantage, instead of because they are a weak baby spellcaster, powerless before your buff martial might.
Any time you’re doing a PvP, I recommend taking alert. PCs aren’t built to fight each other, as fangeye said. So what ends up happening is the most important roll in these fights is initiative. Either option (caster or martial) can be built with some single target ways to stun the enemy, as mdhe explained. From there, going first means you get one more try before they do — if you both live through round 2, you go first in 3, for example.
Any time you’re doing a PvP, I recommend taking alert. PCs aren’t built to fight each other, as fangeye said. So what ends up happening is the most important roll in these fights is initiative. Either option (caster or martial) can be built with some single target ways to stun the enemy, as mdhe explained. From there, going first means you get one more try before they do — if you both live through round 2, you go first in 3, for example.
Great point; going first is huge. You absolutely do not want to get Hold Person'd before you even get a turn. In addition to Alert (which is great in its own), a few classes are better than others at going first. Here's a few examples:
All Barbarians get advantage on initiative starting at level 7; they also get advantage on Dexterity saves against effects they can see, which is awesome for an anti-mage.
The Battlemaster gets the Ambush maneuver in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything; this allows you to add a Superiority Die to your initiative roll. You can even fit this option along with the two others I mentioned when you take the subclass at level 3.
Another option is the Oath of the Watchers Paladin, which at level 7 gains a bonus to Initiative equal to their proficiency. As a nice side benefit, their Watcher's Will Channel Divinity option will help protect you against many spells, as will the Paladin's Aura of Protection (though they are a shiftless half-caster).
Using some combination of these will all but guarantee you get to do your plan before you get punched in the mouth. (metaphorically speaking; spellcasters are far too weak and cowardly to literally punch you in the mouth)
What class would be best to destroy a spellcaster? i have a friend who believes in their supremacy, and although i agree theyre better than melee in 5e, he called my rogue i was making useless, so now i want to destroy him. the research I did before making this post led me to conclude that sentinel and mage slayer would be useful, but im unsure about class and race for this build. (probably variant human for the feat, and debating between rogue and monk) Any recommendations on ways to obliderate him? we start at level 4 :)
If you specifically want to be a non-spellcaster good at fighting spellcasters, then you've got two options: Paladin or Monk.
Paladin: Maneuverability to get into melee with the spellcasters comes from their mount from Find Steed, and their high saves and outright immunity to many conditions from their aura (go for Devotion!) protects you from the worse of their spellcasting. Consider using Resilient to get proficiency in Dex saves at higher levels and/or Shield Master to protect from AoE damage spells. Then go for nova damage with Smite to blast their the puny spellcaster HP.
Monk: Tons of maneuverability (go Shadow to match them teleport for teleport), to get to the spellcaster, and they similarly have high saves (at level 14) and a method to remove charm/fear from themselves. Rather than nova-ing them down, the Monk runs up and stun-locks the spellcaster with stunning strike until they die.
Key feats: Alert - you need to go first before the spellcaster can trap you in a Maze or something, Mage Slayer - so you get an extra hit if they try to escape you.
This is all about nova-ing them down. With Harengon + Lucky + Alert you should be able to all but guarantee you get to go first, then using Action Surge + Fighting Spirit you can make all the SS attacks against them, all with Adv. However, this build will be stymied if they do the heavy armour + Shield spell for huge AC spellcaster build, and if they get very lucky with initiative you might be paralyzed for a long time.
Add on some Gloomstalker Ranger if you want to go all out.
(You can also do this last one on any class via the Martial Initiate feat; just pick Disarming Strike and soak their opportunity attack when you run away. You'll only get one Superiority Die this way though, so make it count)
I think I might do the martial initiate feature? just because it requires a strength save for disarming strike and i know he dumps strength. i <3 using meta knowledge.
also i know i only get one superiority die but is there another you think would be useful in a different scenario than disarming attack?? i was thinking maybe ambush, i guess it depends on how important going first is in initiative versus disarming him.
I could also disarm him using the optional disarming rules, which i already talked over with the dm and she approved, but those rules have dex or strength save and I have no idea what he does with dexterity usually so I sort of want to go for the safe option of choosing to force a strength save.
Everyone is offering min max builds to outright kill the offending player.
Isn't this exactly what he was saying himself? "Your rogue is useless." Your all just agreeing with his premise.
How about we all figure out a way that his first level rogue could kill a first level wizard.
There is nothing to figure out there, a first level rogue need only go up to a first level wizard and stab them with dual wielded daggers and they win.
Ambush is great for everyone; for a Rogue specifically, Trip Attack and Feinting Attack both potentially give you ways to activate your Sneak Attack feature. Precision Strike could also help you overcome his inevitable Shield reaction, but only once so make sure it's worth it.
Outside this specific situation, Maneuvering Attack is also great to get your party members out of harm's way, if you're into all that 'teamwork' stuff.
Also worth mentioning: in true Roguely fashion, make sure you take him by surprise if you can. A surprised creature can't take a reaction until after its first turn in combat, which means surprise + you go first = no Shield spell until you've already had a clean shot at him.
We just finished the one shot. I ended up playing a rogue thief, took mage killer and martial adept, didn’t use either of them.
we finished the one shot and we fought. and oh my god it was so funny. he hates the words bonus action hide now. i didn’t even have to disarm him, he just couldn’t see me. none of his attacks really hit me. and finally, when i rolled high enough to avoid his shield reaction (after trying to get him to use all of his spell slots. he used arcane recover which was so annoying but it didn’t matter.) i rolled a natural 20, got high enough so his shield (and one other thing?? not sure what it was) and finally hit him, dorng just enough damage to knock him down. the one shot was so fun playing up the rivalry and then finally fighting. i didn’t kill his character though, i just cut off all of his limbs. (i rolled a d4 to determine how many and got a four lol). he will never call one of my characters useless again because now he knows what will happen. thank you all for your help.
What class would be best to destroy a spellcaster? i have a friend who believes in their supremacy, and although i agree theyre better than melee in 5e, he called my rogue i was making useless, so now i want to destroy him. the research I did before making this post led me to conclude that sentinel and mage slayer would be useful, but im unsure about class and race for this build. (probably variant human for the feat, and debating between rogue and monk) Any recommendations on ways to obliderate him? we start at level 4 :)
Honestly that simply isn't how the game is designed. It is a cooperative game and so it isn't balanced with PvP in mind.
Also, saying that someone's character is useless is just toxic. Aside from the fact that it is simply and objectively not true, the only reason to say something like that is to belittle and aggravate the player.
TLDR: Whoever said this is not worth playing with, let alone engaging with on their level.
don’t worry we are good friends and this rivalry is just for fun :) ik he didn’t mean it and sorry i didnt specify that in the beginning lol
Oath of the Ancients Paladin of at least 7th level with some Fey ancestry origin for the advantage on WIS/INT/CHA saves.
There's a few ways to approach this. I'm going to stick to options that don't use magic at all, in the true spirit of putting magic users in their place.
As a Rogue, you can choose the Inquisitive subclass from Xanathar's Guide to Everything; this allows you to use your Sneak Attack without having advantage on the roll by setting up with a bonus action. Pick Expertise in Insight to help make sure this feature works. If they don't have Shocking Grasp, then Sentinel or Mage Slayer is great for this build. If they do, consider Weapon Proficiency in the Longbow or Heavy Crossbow, and Sharpshooter if you can get it.
As a Monk, you can take Mage Slayer and Way of the Open Hand to become a spellcaster's nightmare. Knock them prone with Way of the Open Hand to limit their movement, attempt Stunning Strikes whenever possible (including as Mage Slayer reactions). With perpetual advantage on your attacks, they should run out of HP way before you run out of Ki.
As a Fighter, pick Battlemaster. Choose proficiency in Athletics. Take Disarming Attack and Pushing Attack. (Remember that both of these work with ranged weapon attacks if necessary.) Use the first to make them drop their spellcasting focus; use the second to push them 15 feet away. Pick up their spellcasting focus. Run. They will never catch you on their feeble Wizard legs.
(You can also do this last one on any class via the Martial Initiate feat; just pick Disarming Strike and soak their opportunity attack when you run away. You'll only get one Superiority Die this way though, so make it count)
P.S. You can make any of these builds even stronger by playing as a Gnome (for advantage against Cha, Int, and Wis saves) a Goblin (for advantage against being Charmed and Bonus Action dash), or a Yuan-Ti (for the way Yuan-Ti are nonsense). I don't strictly recommend this unless you want to play one of those species anyway. If you use one of these options, your friend might come to the mistaken conclusion that they lost because of your species advantage, instead of because they are a weak baby spellcaster, powerless before your buff martial might.
Any time you’re doing a PvP, I recommend taking alert. PCs aren’t built to fight each other, as fangeye said. So what ends up happening is the most important roll in these fights is initiative. Either option (caster or martial) can be built with some single target ways to stun the enemy, as mdhe explained. From there, going first means you get one more try before they do — if you both live through round 2, you go first in 3, for example.
Great point; going first is huge. You absolutely do not want to get Hold Person'd before you even get a turn. In addition to Alert (which is great in its own), a few classes are better than others at going first. Here's a few examples:
All Barbarians get advantage on initiative starting at level 7; they also get advantage on Dexterity saves against effects they can see, which is awesome for an anti-mage.
The Battlemaster gets the Ambush maneuver in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything; this allows you to add a Superiority Die to your initiative roll. You can even fit this option along with the two others I mentioned when you take the subclass at level 3.
Another option is the Oath of the Watchers Paladin, which at level 7 gains a bonus to Initiative equal to their proficiency. As a nice side benefit, their Watcher's Will Channel Divinity option will help protect you against many spells, as will the Paladin's Aura of Protection (though they are a shiftless half-caster).
Using some combination of these will all but guarantee you get to do your plan before you get punched in the mouth. (metaphorically speaking; spellcasters are far too weak and cowardly to literally punch you in the mouth)
If you specifically want to be a non-spellcaster good at fighting spellcasters, then you've got two options: Paladin or Monk.
Paladin: Maneuverability to get into melee with the spellcasters comes from their mount from Find Steed, and their high saves and outright immunity to many conditions from their aura (go for Devotion!) protects you from the worse of their spellcasting. Consider using Resilient to get proficiency in Dex saves at higher levels and/or Shield Master to protect from AoE damage spells. Then go for nova damage with Smite to blast their the puny spellcaster HP.
Monk: Tons of maneuverability (go Shadow to match them teleport for teleport), to get to the spellcaster, and they similarly have high saves (at level 14) and a method to remove charm/fear from themselves. Rather than nova-ing them down, the Monk runs up and stun-locks the spellcaster with stunning strike until they die.
Key feats: Alert - you need to go first before the spellcaster can trap you in a Maze or something, Mage Slayer - so you get an extra hit if they try to escape you.
I would stay a rogue and play like a rogue.
Your deceitful and your ultimate goal is to take everything he has at some point.
Play the game on him. Stay close to him and at the best opportunity let him die or even help him die. Its been done before and will be done again.
Just make it look like you tried to save him but could just not do it in time.
If the player takes this personally just remind him his next character can not meta game and come after you.
Useless my fat fanny.
Actually I offer an option 3:
Race: Harengon
Feats: XbowXpert, Sharpshooter, Alert, (optional) Lucky
Class: Fighter (Samurai).
This is all about nova-ing them down. With Harengon + Lucky + Alert you should be able to all but guarantee you get to go first, then using Action Surge + Fighting Spirit you can make all the SS attacks against them, all with Adv. However, this build will be stymied if they do the heavy armour + Shield spell for huge AC spellcaster build, and if they get very lucky with initiative you might be paralyzed for a long time.
Add on some Gloomstalker Ranger if you want to go all out.
Everyone is offering min max builds to outright kill the offending player.
Isn't this exactly what he was saying himself? "Your rogue is useless." Your all just agreeing with his premise.
How about we all figure out a way that his first level rogue could kill a first level wizard.
I think I might do the martial initiate feature? just because it requires a strength save for disarming strike and i know he dumps strength. i <3 using meta knowledge.
also i know i only get one superiority die but is there another you think would be useful in a different scenario than disarming attack?? i was thinking maybe ambush, i guess it depends on how important going first is in initiative versus disarming him.
I could also disarm him using the optional disarming rules, which i already talked over with the dm and she approved, but those rules have dex or strength save and I have no idea what he does with dexterity usually so I sort of want to go for the safe option of choosing to force a strength save.
It is going to be so funny when I steal his magic branch and say its what my character would do after i throw it off a cliff teehee/j
There is nothing to figure out there, a first level rogue need only go up to a first level wizard and stab them with dual wielded daggers and they win.
Ambush is great for everyone; for a Rogue specifically, Trip Attack and Feinting Attack both potentially give you ways to activate your Sneak Attack feature. Precision Strike could also help you overcome his inevitable Shield reaction, but only once so make sure it's worth it.
Outside this specific situation, Maneuvering Attack is also great to get your party members out of harm's way, if you're into all that 'teamwork' stuff.
Also worth mentioning: in true Roguely fashion, make sure you take him by surprise if you can. A surprised creature can't take a reaction until after its first turn in combat, which means surprise + you go first = no Shield spell until you've already had a clean shot at him.
Pick pocket his components, spell focus, and spell book. Also all his gold. Then burn the book in front of him
Anti magic field, stab with dagger
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
We just finished the one shot. I ended up playing a rogue thief, took mage killer and martial adept, didn’t use either of them.
we finished the one shot and we fought. and oh my god it was so funny. he hates the words bonus action hide now. i didn’t even have to disarm him, he just couldn’t see me. none of his attacks really hit me. and finally, when i rolled high enough to avoid his shield reaction (after trying to get him to use all of his spell slots. he used arcane recover which was so annoying but it didn’t matter.) i rolled a natural 20, got high enough so his shield (and one other thing?? not sure what it was) and finally hit him, dorng just enough damage to knock him down. the one shot was so fun playing up the rivalry and then finally fighting. i didn’t kill his character though, i just cut off all of his limbs. (i rolled a d4 to determine how many and got a four lol). he will never call one of my characters useless again because now he knows what will happen. thank you all for your help.
Play as a rogue. Think like a rogue. Rogues don't fight fair. Use poison, the best poison you can afford.
The day before your arranged meeting kill him in his sleep. Don't taunt him. Just kill him. This is just business to you.
That is how a real rogue would win. Subvert the rules to your advantage.