Dungeons aren't filled with piles and piles of flammables, archers, blacksmiths, carpenters, masons, soldiers and military strategists.
Only because you don't flesh them out properly. That's not on me.
There might be some exceptions, but generally, a 'dungeon' is where someone lives - or it's a military base of operations.
Um.. no they aren't? Dungeons I have used/played in include: mines, abandoned ruins, natural caves, giant termite hill, ship wreck, wizard's tower, various temples & crypts, rotten giant tree, sewers, a swamp, a hedge maze. A party of adventurers would have to be crazy to attack a military base.
Most of my PCs try to avoid killing any humanoids or anything obviously intelligent/self-aware, unless that creature actively attacks them first - and even then they often choose to incapacitate them rather than kill them.
Um.. no they aren't? Dungeons I have used/played in include: mines, abandoned ruins, natural caves, giant termite hill, ship wreck, wizard's tower, various temples & crypts, rotten giant tree, sewers, a swamp, a hedge maze. A party of adventurers would have to be crazy to attack a military base.
Most of my PCs try to avoid killing any humanoids or anything obviously intelligent/self-aware, unless that creature actively attacks them first - and even then they often choose to incapacitate them rather than kill them.
A mine: Could be a bandit camp (thus, a base of operations), could be home to a goblin tribe - I dunno what's in there, but it's not automatically disqualified
Abandoned ruins: Bandit camp, or maybe a necromancer lair, or whatever
natural caves: All manner of goblinoids, meaning essentially a village - basically, anything could dwell in caves, including bandits, rebels, escaped slaves, orc raiders
Termite hill: Well, those are monsters, and the tactics would be decided by the INT of the queen
Ship wreck: I'm guessing undead. Those are a legitimage exception - except if there's someone more intelligent commanding them
A wizard tower is expected to have a wizard, so I'd assume very robust planning and tactics
Giant tree: Dunno, could be anything. Let's assume a a nature style enemy, maybe a corrupted dryad, a druid, or similar: Essentially, this is a wizard tower.
Swamp: What I expect of a swamp is monsters and undead. Legitimate exception, unless led by someone clever.
Hedge maze: I dunno, minotaur? Seems fair to count this as an exception.
Most of your examples do not - to me - in any way indicate the defense wouldn't know how to act if they got the chance. But I'm guessing. I like that your PC's are so peaceful, I'm the same way, but if I'm casting Tiny Hut, it's because I'm expecting an attack. An attack on a Tiny Hut is pretty much as I've described.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Um.. no they aren't? Dungeons I have used/played in include: mines, abandoned ruins, natural caves, giant termite hill, ship wreck, wizard's tower, various temples & crypts, rotten giant tree, sewers, a swamp, a hedge maze. A party of adventurers would have to be crazy to attack a military base.
Most of my PCs try to avoid killing any humanoids or anything obviously intelligent/self-aware, unless that creature actively attacks them first - and even then they often choose to incapacitate them rather than kill them.
A mine: Could be a bandit camp (thus, a base of operations), could be home to a goblin tribe - I dunno what's in there, but it's not automatically disqualified
Abandoned ruins: Bandit camp, or maybe a necromancer lair, or whatever
natural caves: All manner of goblinoids, meaning essentially a village - basically, anything could dwell in caves, including bandits, rebels, escaped slaves, orc raiders
Termite hill: Well, those are monsters, and the tactics would be decided by the INT of the queen
Ship wreck: I'm guessing undead. Those are a legitimage exception - except if there's someone more intelligent commanding them
A wizard tower is expected to have a wizard, so I'd assume very robust planning and tactics
Giant tree: Dunno, could be anything. Let's assume a a nature style enemy, maybe a corrupted dryad, a druid, or similar: Essentially, this is a wizard tower.
Swamp: What I expect of a swamp is monsters and undead. Legitimate exception, unless led by someone clever.
Hedge maze: I dunno, minotaur? Seems fair to count this as an exception.
Most of your examples do not - to me - in any way indicate the defense wouldn't know how to act if they got the chance. But I'm guessing. I like that your PC's are so peaceful, I'm the same way, but if I'm casting Tiny Hut, it's because I'm expecting an attack. An attack on a Tiny Hut is pretty much as I've described.
There can be humanoids, but there is no requirement for them to contain humanoids. Humanoids in general make for terrible combat encounters because they logically would just flee as soon as the battle turns against them.
Mines typically contain earth elementals, spiders, lizards, bats, undead, maybe rogue constructs, or oozes.
Abandoned ruins generally have snakes, rats, elementals, constructs, undead, and occasionally trapped demons.
Natural caves contains various beasts & monstrosities, and may also contain aberrations if they connect to the underdark.
Giant termite hill contains giant insects - insects don't have the intelligence nor the manual dexterity to light fires or build traps, fungi / mould / slime.
Shipwreck had undead, sharks, kraken, chuul and hags
Wizard tower may have magical traps but no army of soldiers to call on, nor piles of materials to build stuff out of.
Giant tree had various giant bugs, many bulettes, a group of neutral sentient mole people, a friendly dryad, and a pack of demons that caused the corruption to fell the tree.
Crypts had lots of undead, some demons, some aberrations, many constructs, and one time some fey. Temples generally had elementals, constructs, celestials, or fiends.
Sewers have had spiders, naga, olytugh, crocodiles, hydras, giant snakes/worms, elementals, a grey ooze and wererats
Swamp had various swamp animals & aggressive plants, as well as a coven of hags, some undead, lycanthropes and merrow.
Hedge Maze had strangling vines, shambling mounds, treants, various fey creatures, a friendly myconid, hallucinagenic moths, some dopplegangers and a Roc.
There can be humanoids, but there is no requirement for them to contain humanoids. Humanoids in general make for terrible combat encounters because they logically would just flee as soon as the battle turns against them.
Mines typically contain earth elementals, spiders, lizards, bats, undead, maybe rogue constructs, or oozes.
Abandoned ruins generally have snakes, rats, elementals, constructs, undead, and occasionally trapped demons.
Natural caves contains various beasts & monstrosities, and may also contain aberrations if they connect to the underdark.
Giant termite hill contains giant insects - insects don't have the intelligence nor the manual dexterity to light fires or build traps, fungi / mould / slime.
Shipwreck had undead, sharks, kraken, chuul and hags
Wizard tower may have magical traps but no army of soldiers to call on, nor piles of materials to build stuff out of.
Giant tree had various giant bugs, many bulettes, a group of neutral sentient mole people, a friendly dryad, and a pack of demons that caused the corruption to fell the tree.
Crypts had lots of undead, some demons, some aberrations, many constructs, and one time some fey. Temples generally had elementals, constructs, celestials, or fiends.
Sewers have had spiders, naga, olytugh, crocodiles, hydras, giant snakes/worms, elementals, a grey ooze and wererats
Swamp had various swamp animals & aggressive plants, as well as a coven of hags, some undead, lycanthropes and merrow.
Hedge Maze had strangling vines, shambling mounds, treants, various fey creatures, a friendly myconid, hallucinagenic moths, some dopplegangers and a Roc.
So ... most of your examples are clearly in support of my point: Demons, some undead, some insects, kraken and hags (and potentially chuul), wizards, mole people, celestials, fiends, certain constructs (I admit they're kinda rare), demons again, fey, naga, were creatures of all kinds, more hags, more weres, arguably merrow, treants, more fey, myconid, dopplegangers - every one of these is intelligent enough to come up with a way to turn a Tiny Hut into a death trap.
Please don't get hung up on the specifics. I've used spearmen and archers because I wanted an example that was so simple even goblins could pull it off. Flood and seal for a similarly predictable outcome. Seal and fill with poison gas. Collapse a mountain on top (requires a collapsible mountain - or building).
Any place that intelligent beings live, there'll be all the stuff that living creatures need: Food, shelter, warmth, amenities of one kind or another. That could be a farm, or a village, or bandits hiding in a cave, or monstrous humanoids, a dread necromancer and his favourite ghouls, literally almost anything alive: They'll have food stores, kitchens of some sort (even if just a cooking fire), places to rest, clothes, toilets, supplies for all the kinds of situations they need to deal with. In almost all cases this will involve firewood, cooking oil (in some measure), tar or pitch, timber. Any sort of permanent dwelling will be able to do minimal leather- and ironwork. And in a world full of monsters, they'll have organised defences.
It's just that we tend to not include those things in our dungeon maps.
I'm not an adventurer. I live in a house, and I have at least a couple of tonnes of timber or firewood. I have cooking oil, gasoline, lamp oil, lighter gas, tinder, coal. And on top, if someone actually life threatening was camping out in my living room, I have other stuff that'll burn: Furniture, clothes, sheets. I have a garden, and with either hours I could rush another couple of tonnes of timber in. Well, wood at any rate. I have a 25 liter propane tank.
If you cast Tiny Hut in my living room, and there was no one except me to do the work, you'd still burn merrily. Anyone can do this. Although there may be exceptions - like a bunch of ghouls might be too stupid, and who knows, maybe if you're living in the artic, finding timber is hard. But guess what, you're still keeping warm somehow, so you're burning something.
Edit: I'd lose my house, obviously. But houses can be replaced. My life cannot.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Where does a Merrow get a giant canister of poison gas with a remote detonator? And how do they create an air-tight seal to avoid poisoning themselves?
Collapse a mountain on top
Where does a ghost get dynamite?
Flood and seal for a similarly predictable outcome
How does a demon redirect an underground river?
They'll have food stores, kitchens of some sort (even if just a cooking fire), places to rest, clothes, toilets, supplies for all the kinds of situations they need to deal with.
Monstrosities, beast, oozes don't cook their food or light fires and "toilets" are just a designated location for waste, same for "places to rest", not something with running water (nobody outside of a city would have running water in D&D - and honestly in many game worlds nobody would have running water). Undead, constructs, and elementals don't even eat. What supplies are you talking about? Some bags of hard-tack, and a few hunting knives and some string?
Have you ever gone camping? You take the bare necessities with you, you aren't lugging around a full kitchen, blacksmith shop, alchemy lab, and workshop, you generally have 1 pot, a couple spoons, some knives, a bowl/mess tin, a handaxe, a tent/sleeping bag, a ball of string, a small shovel, a tinderbox, and some some extra clothes. Building fortifications takes a ton of work, Roman armies had hundreds - thousands of men working for hours to build their marching camps. A handful of goblins cannot rig up dozens of pit traps / swinging log traps in a couple of hours.
PS Just being intelligent doesn't mean you can build stuff. Dolphins, crows and some dogs are quite intelligent but they lack hands necessary to make & use tools effectively so it doesn't matter how intelligent they are, they'll never be able to start a fire, or forge metal, or build a trap. Dragons in D&D are geniuses but they still don't build cities, or use weapons, or wear armour, etc...
Where does a Merrow get a giant canister of poison gas with a remote detonator? And how do they create an air-tight seal to avoid poisoning themselves?
Where does a ghost get dynamite?
How does a demon redirect an underground river?
Monstrosities, beast, oozes don't cook their food or light fires and "toilets" are just a designated location for waste, same for "places to rest", not something with running water (nobody outside of a city would have running water in D&D - and honestly in many game worlds nobody would have running water). Undead, constructs, and elementals don't even eat. What supplies are you talking about? Some bags of hard-tack, and a few hunting knives and some string?
Have you ever gone camping? You take the bare necessities with you, you aren't lugging around a full kitchen, blacksmith shop, alchemy lab, and workshop, you generally have 1 pot, a couple spoons, some knives, a bowl/mess tin, a handaxe, a tent/sleeping bag, a ball of string, a small shovel, a tinderbox, and some some extra clothes. Building fortifications takes a ton of work, Roman armies had hundreds - thousands of men working for hours to build their marching camps. A handful of goblins cannot rig up dozens of pit traps / swinging log traps in a couple of hours.
PS Just being intelligent doesn't mean you can build stuff. Dolphins, crows and some dogs are quite intelligent but they lack hands necessary to make & use tools effectively so it doesn't matter how intelligent they are, they'll never be able to start a fire, or forge metal, or build a trap.
This is like, super important to you, huh?
Right. My bad, I got it totally wrong. Sorry.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Any sort of permanent dwelling will be able to do minimal leather- and ironwork.
What???!!! Have you any idea how hard it is to cure leather? It takes weeks and weeks in pits filled with caustic substances derived either from fermenting urine, or from burning limestone in kilns. Ironwork require mining iron ore - which requires sturdy pickaxes, shovels, and a rich source of iron-rich ore, producing charcoal - which required digging a 6 ft deep hole, piling in wood setting it alight then covering it just enough that it burns in a low-oxygen environment for hours and hourse, building a kiln capable of reaching hundred of degrees celsius, smelting the iron ore, collecting the bloom, heating the bloom in a different type of kiln, building an anvil, building a hammer, then hand-forging it for hours and hours using mountains of charcoal. Not to mention that raw iron rusts very quickly and is very brittle, to make something like a sword you need to heat the iron with just the right amount of charcoal. There's a reason we had the "bronze age" for centuries before the "iron age".
Most small settlements of fewer than a dozen inhabitant produce raw-hide and wool clothing, not tanned leather. They make stone and/or bone tools, and build pretty much everything out of wood, resin, rope and mud. There is a reason Europeans were able to trade/colonize the world with simply steel tools / weapons.
If you cast Tiny Hut in my living room, and there was no one except me to do the work, you'd still burn merrily. Anyone can do this. Although there may be exceptions - like a bunch of ghouls might be too stupid, and who knows, maybe if you're living in the artic, finding timber is hard. But guess what, you're still keeping warm somehow, so you're burning something.
Edit: I'd lose my house, obviously. But houses can be replaced. My life cannot.
Honestly, that's a very silly thing for you to do. Would you set fire to your house because someone broke into it? No, you'd leave the house and go get the authorities / friends or just hide in the woods and wait for the tresspasser to leave. Sure you spend a couple of uncomfortable nights, but at the end you still have a house and your life.
What???!!! Have you any idea how hard it is to cure leather? It takes weeks and weeks in pits filled with caustic substances derived either from fermenting urine, or from burning limestone in kilns. Ironwork require mining iron ore - which requires sturdy pickaxes, shovels, and a rich source of iron-rich ore, producing charcoal - which required digging a 6 ft deep hole, piling in wood setting it alight then covering it just enough that it burns in a low-oxygen environment for hours and hourse, building a kiln capable of reaching hundred of degrees celsius, smelting the iron ore, collecting the bloom, heating the bloom in a different type of kiln, building an anvil, building a hammer, then hand-forging it for hours and hours using mountains of charcoal. Not to mention that raw iron rusts very quickly and is very brittle, to make something like a sword you need to heat the iron with just the right amount of charcoal. There's a reason we had the "bronze age" for centuries before the "iron age".
Most small settlements of fewer than a dozen inhabitant produce raw-hide and wool clothing, not tanned leather. They make stone and/or bone tools, and build pretty much everything out of wood, resin, rope and mud. There is a reason Europeans were able to trade/colonize the world with simply steel tools / weapons.
Honestly, that's a very silly thing for you to do. Would you set fire to your house because someone broke into it? No, you'd leave the house and go get the authorities / friends or just hide in the woods and wait for the tresspasser to leave. Sure you spend a couple of uncomfortable nights, but at the end you still have a house and your life.
I think you may have missed the part where I said you're right about everything. Clearly, nothing I've said makes any sense, and you're really hit the head on the nail in every way.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I enjoyed what you wrote but I have to agree with there other posters, it is a bit off topic in regards to my particular situation.
I'm sure if you're raiding a Kobold nest, then yes, they would do all that as Kobolds are expert trap makers. However people have brought up a good point that there is no shared language amongst the Wisps, Beetles and Mephits.
They do interact based off of how the DM has been playing them.
The Wisps guide the mephits, as the mephits are at least intelligent enough to follow them.
The mephits ride the beetles, somewhat like a cowboy, herding 1 or 2 additional beetles with them.
The beetles are the main offensive force. Mephits assist with their mud breath and death burst, and Wisps come in and out of walls to finish off low health or downed PCs.
I think I will go with a long rest at this point because everyone made some excellent points. Even if there is a harder encounter waiting for us, we'll be at full resources.
I enjoyed what you wrote but I have to agree with there other posters, it is a bit off topic in regards to my particular situation.
I'm sure if you're raiding a Kobold nest, then yes, they would do all that as Kobolds are expert trap makers. However people have brought up a good point that there is no shared language amongst the Wisps, Beetles and Mephits.
They do interact based off of how the DM has been playing them.
The Wisps guide the mephits, as the mephits are at least intelligent enough to follow them.
The mephits ride the beetles, somewhat like a cowboy, herding 1 or 2 additional beetles with them.
The beetles are the main offensive force. Mephits assist with their mud breath and death burst, and Wisps come in and out of walls to finish off low health or downed PCs.
I think I will go with a long rest at this point because everyone made some excellent points. Even if there is a harder encounter waiting for us, we'll be at full resources.
Without a guiding intellect to formulate a plan, there is none. But if there's someone clever enough to come up with a plan, then in all likelyhood there'll be a plan.
I was making general statements, not analysing your encounter at all. Will-o-wisps are easily clever enough to make plans, and mephits are too. Without looking at numbers at all, beetles could haul a substantial amount of timber. Timber is just wood, so unless it's a dessert, it's almost certain to be abundantly available.
But that's not necessarily how you as GM want to play out the encounter. Killing off the PC's is unattractive. Still, the natural response when faced with a far superior enemy, who has temporarily confined themselves, is to make their bunker their grave. It's ..... all but universal: You try to turn their advantage into a disadvantage. It's so basic, even Sun Tzu said it. In various forms.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Party is currently in a Dungeon where the tunnels are 4 feet high, and 2.5 feet wide.
1) Where are the beetles getting the timber from? 2) How are they being trained to haul it by the mephits? 3) How long do you think that entire process takes?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
1) Where are the beetles getting the timber from? 2) How are they being trained to haul it by the mephits? 3) How long do you think that entire process takes?
Oh. Ok. This is a medieval world, yes? So ... it's mostly covered in forest. Except, of course, if it's very high in the mountains, in a dessert, or the arctics. If they can be ridden - they have harness, and can be made to haul. I think this entire process takes less than 8 hours. Do you have any idea how much timber you can haul in 8 hours - if the only requirements are drop trees, haul them down some tunnels? A LOT. Easily enough to burn up a room.
Do you know a lot about how stuff burns? No, me neither. But I've seen how a burning couch and some curtains can raise the temperature in a room to 700 degrees in 6-7 minutes.
This isn't some fanciful pipedream I thought up while under heavy sedation in a rubber cell at the asylum. It's not .... difficult. At all.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If the NPC's can make all these plans with fire and wood etc....a smart party can also have an escape plan. Obviously it depends on the parties tools and make up but since I tend to play rangers at 7 hours and 59 minutes I cast rope trick at the top 0f the incide dome/ Have everyone climb up and in. When the caster of the Hut enters this extra demensional space the hut disappears because they left the hut. The party is hidden away above the collapesed fire, rock slide ect... for an hour with no one knowing they were not crushed or burt to a crisp.
I am sure a cleaver party can find some tool/spell to also offset the plans of the NPC's often.
1) Where are the beetles getting the timber from? 2) How are they being trained to haul it by the mephits? 3) How long do you think that entire process takes?
Oh. Ok. This is a medieval world, yes? So ... it's mostly covered in forest.
The party is in a dungeon, as stated by OP. How many levels down? How far away are the exits? What's outside?
If they can be ridden - they have harness, and can be made to haul.
More assumptions. Why would creatures literally made out of sticky mud need harnesses? If they do, what did they make them out of? Why would riding harnesses be suitable/adaptable for hauling trees?
I think this entire process takes less than 8 hours.
The entire process of getting to an exit from the dungeon, finding a wooded area, teaching INT 1 giant beetles that live underground how to fell and haul trees, and dragging them back through small tunnels to the party's tiny hut takes under eight hours, huh? Very convenient
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If the NPC's can make all these plans with fire and wood etc....a smart party can also have an escape plan. Obviously it depends on the parties tools and make up but since I tend to play rangers at 7 hours and 59 minutes I cast rope trick at the top 0f the incide dome/ Have everyone climb up and in. When the caster of the Hut enters this extra demensional space the hut disappears because they left the hut. The party is hidden away above the collapesed fire, rock slide ect... for an hour with no one knowing they were not crushed or burt to a crisp.
I am sure a cleaver party can find some tool/spell to also offset the plans of the NPC's often.
Of course they can come up with a counter. Rope Trick likely isn't it. The entrance will be 60 feet up. That's propably not possible indoors, unless you're in a cathedral - or cathedral-like space. Furthermore, you'd have to climb something like 50 feet through a raging fire of 1000+ degrees, on a burning rope. Not really a viable solution.
The obvious counter is to exit the Hut before the fire is built and lit. But that forces the party to a fight on unfavorable terms, without the ressources they cast the Hut to regain.
Teleportation is another. Something as simple as having a Darkness spell, and a barbarian with blindfighting will also - conceivably - turn the odds in the PC's favor.
My point is, if the PC's don't do anything - they die.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
.... on the other hand, if you want to go into a simple, RAW based counter, this fire would be no hotter than lava, and apparently you can take a swim in lava at the low cost of 18d10 per round. Never mind the fact that such temperatures literally vaporizes you.
So .... by RAW I'm just wrong. You could emerge from the Hut wearing fire resistance (taking just ~30 damage on average), cast Ice Storm to put out the fire, and be good to go.
But for realsies, you'd not even have time to scream.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If the NPC's can make all these plans with fire and wood etc....a smart party can also have an escape plan. Obviously it depends on the parties tools and make up but since I tend to play rangers at 7 hours and 59 minutes I cast rope trick at the top 0f the incide dome/ Have everyone climb up and in. When the caster of the Hut enters this extra demensional space the hut disappears because they left the hut. The party is hidden away above the collapesed fire, rock slide ect... for an hour with no one knowing they were not crushed or burt to a crisp.
I am sure a cleaver party can find some tool/spell to also offset the plans of the NPC's often.
Of course they can come up with a counter. Rope Trick likely isn't it. The entrance will be 60 feet up. That's propably not possible indoors, unless you're in a cathedral - or cathedral-like space. Furthermore, you'd have to climb something like 50 feet through a raging fire of 1000+ degrees, on a burning rope. Not really a viable solution.
Rope trick can be any height up to 60 ft high, the spell says : "You touch a length of rope that is up to 60 feet long.", you could touch a 1 ft long piece of rope and have the entrance 1 ft off the ground.
Likewise, the easiest solution to enemies trying to start a fire over the dome, is to simply keep watch and as soon as the enemies start stacking the flammables the party sets them on fire themselves before the enemies have a chance to block up the exits so the fire now smokes out the enemies and will burn itself out long before the dome expires.
And yeah, lots of the game is not realistic b/c fun > realistic.
Wait - it lasts only an hour? Ha! The fire will last much, much longer. But yea, I totally didn't notice the up to. But there are counters, sure. In terms of the PC's setting the fire themselves, that can be solved easily, if you have enough manpower. If not, then it's a definite issue. I'd cast Darkness over the dome, to prevent the PC's knowing what's about to happen.
But I'm not trying to say there's no counter. I'm saying unless you come up with one, you're definitely toast.
And it's actually something you need to think about, in order to counter it. Keep in mind, I mentioned counter attack and teleport in my first post. I am not saying it can't be countered.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Wait - it lasts only an hour? Ha! The fire will last much, much longer. But yea, I totally didn't notice the up to. But there are counters, sure. In terms of the PC's setting the fire themselves, that can be solved easily, if you have enough manpower. If not, then it's a definite issue. I'd cast Darkness over the dome, to prevent the PC's knowing what's about to happen.
If the enemy has enough manpower then the PCs are hopeless outmatched anyway, in which case why are they trying to attack in the first place? Four people cannot take on an army. If you cast Darkness on the dome the PCs absolutely know that something is up and will send out a familiar or something to check it out. The whole idea of "the PCs set up a hut in hostile territory and then take 0 other precautions", is kinda ridiculous. Even with a Tiny Hut they will be keeping watch so if the enemy starts setting up an ambush they will just leave. And most of the time the PCs will still barricade the entrances to the room before setting up a hut.
You accused me of assuming the enemies - many of whom have less intelligence than a dog - of making silly decisions, but I accuse you of assuming the PCs whom are all intelligent humanoids of making extremely silly decisions.
Oh, are we playing the "I'd just do this" game? Cool! Let the enemy stack their curiously accessible stockpiles of wood around the opaque tiny hut. Cast darkness on it. Set all the traps they want
Meanwhile, the warlock's invisible familiar has gone out and collected a rock from another part of the dungeon, and then they use their devil's sight and 7th-level mystic arcanum to teleport the party away as soon as things get hairy. Easy peasy
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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Um.. no they aren't? Dungeons I have used/played in include: mines, abandoned ruins, natural caves, giant termite hill, ship wreck, wizard's tower, various temples & crypts, rotten giant tree, sewers, a swamp, a hedge maze. A party of adventurers would have to be crazy to attack a military base.
Most of my PCs try to avoid killing any humanoids or anything obviously intelligent/self-aware, unless that creature actively attacks them first - and even then they often choose to incapacitate them rather than kill them.
Most of your examples do not - to me - in any way indicate the defense wouldn't know how to act if they got the chance. But I'm guessing. I like that your PC's are so peaceful, I'm the same way, but if I'm casting Tiny Hut, it's because I'm expecting an attack. An attack on a Tiny Hut is pretty much as I've described.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
There can be humanoids, but there is no requirement for them to contain humanoids. Humanoids in general make for terrible combat encounters because they logically would just flee as soon as the battle turns against them.
Mines typically contain earth elementals, spiders, lizards, bats, undead, maybe rogue constructs, or oozes.
Abandoned ruins generally have snakes, rats, elementals, constructs, undead, and occasionally trapped demons.
Natural caves contains various beasts & monstrosities, and may also contain aberrations if they connect to the underdark.
Giant termite hill contains giant insects - insects don't have the intelligence nor the manual dexterity to light fires or build traps, fungi / mould / slime.
Shipwreck had undead, sharks, kraken, chuul and hags
Wizard tower may have magical traps but no army of soldiers to call on, nor piles of materials to build stuff out of.
Giant tree had various giant bugs, many bulettes, a group of neutral sentient mole people, a friendly dryad, and a pack of demons that caused the corruption to fell the tree.
Crypts had lots of undead, some demons, some aberrations, many constructs, and one time some fey. Temples generally had elementals, constructs, celestials, or fiends.
Sewers have had spiders, naga, olytugh, crocodiles, hydras, giant snakes/worms, elementals, a grey ooze and wererats
Swamp had various swamp animals & aggressive plants, as well as a coven of hags, some undead, lycanthropes and merrow.
Hedge Maze had strangling vines, shambling mounds, treants, various fey creatures, a friendly myconid, hallucinagenic moths, some dopplegangers and a Roc.
So ... most of your examples are clearly in support of my point: Demons, some undead, some insects, kraken and hags (and potentially chuul), wizards, mole people, celestials, fiends, certain constructs (I admit they're kinda rare), demons again, fey, naga, were creatures of all kinds, more hags, more weres, arguably merrow, treants, more fey, myconid, dopplegangers - every one of these is intelligent enough to come up with a way to turn a Tiny Hut into a death trap.
Please don't get hung up on the specifics. I've used spearmen and archers because I wanted an example that was so simple even goblins could pull it off. Flood and seal for a similarly predictable outcome. Seal and fill with poison gas. Collapse a mountain on top (requires a collapsible mountain - or building).
Any place that intelligent beings live, there'll be all the stuff that living creatures need: Food, shelter, warmth, amenities of one kind or another. That could be a farm, or a village, or bandits hiding in a cave, or monstrous humanoids, a dread necromancer and his favourite ghouls, literally almost anything alive: They'll have food stores, kitchens of some sort (even if just a cooking fire), places to rest, clothes, toilets, supplies for all the kinds of situations they need to deal with. In almost all cases this will involve firewood, cooking oil (in some measure), tar or pitch, timber. Any sort of permanent dwelling will be able to do minimal leather- and ironwork. And in a world full of monsters, they'll have organised defences.
It's just that we tend to not include those things in our dungeon maps.
I'm not an adventurer. I live in a house, and I have at least a couple of tonnes of timber or firewood. I have cooking oil, gasoline, lamp oil, lighter gas, tinder, coal. And on top, if someone actually life threatening was camping out in my living room, I have other stuff that'll burn: Furniture, clothes, sheets. I have a garden, and with either hours I could rush another couple of tonnes of timber in. Well, wood at any rate. I have a 25 liter propane tank.
If you cast Tiny Hut in my living room, and there was no one except me to do the work, you'd still burn merrily. Anyone can do this. Although there may be exceptions - like a bunch of ghouls might be too stupid, and who knows, maybe if you're living in the artic, finding timber is hard. But guess what, you're still keeping warm somehow, so you're burning something.
Edit: I'd lose my house, obviously. But houses can be replaced. My life cannot.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Where does a Merrow get a giant canister of poison gas with a remote detonator? And how do they create an air-tight seal to avoid poisoning themselves?
Where does a ghost get dynamite?
How does a demon redirect an underground river?
Monstrosities, beast, oozes don't cook their food or light fires and "toilets" are just a designated location for waste, same for "places to rest", not something with running water (nobody outside of a city would have running water in D&D - and honestly in many game worlds nobody would have running water). Undead, constructs, and elementals don't even eat. What supplies are you talking about? Some bags of hard-tack, and a few hunting knives and some string?
Have you ever gone camping? You take the bare necessities with you, you aren't lugging around a full kitchen, blacksmith shop, alchemy lab, and workshop, you generally have 1 pot, a couple spoons, some knives, a bowl/mess tin, a handaxe, a tent/sleeping bag, a ball of string, a small shovel, a tinderbox, and some some extra clothes. Building fortifications takes a ton of work, Roman armies had hundreds - thousands of men working for hours to build their marching camps. A handful of goblins cannot rig up dozens of pit traps / swinging log traps in a couple of hours.
PS Just being intelligent doesn't mean you can build stuff. Dolphins, crows and some dogs are quite intelligent but they lack hands necessary to make & use tools effectively so it doesn't matter how intelligent they are, they'll never be able to start a fire, or forge metal, or build a trap. Dragons in D&D are geniuses but they still don't build cities, or use weapons, or wear armour, etc...
This is like, super important to you, huh?
Right. My bad, I got it totally wrong. Sorry.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
What???!!! Have you any idea how hard it is to cure leather? It takes weeks and weeks in pits filled with caustic substances derived either from fermenting urine, or from burning limestone in kilns. Ironwork require mining iron ore - which requires sturdy pickaxes, shovels, and a rich source of iron-rich ore, producing charcoal - which required digging a 6 ft deep hole, piling in wood setting it alight then covering it just enough that it burns in a low-oxygen environment for hours and hourse, building a kiln capable of reaching hundred of degrees celsius, smelting the iron ore, collecting the bloom, heating the bloom in a different type of kiln, building an anvil, building a hammer, then hand-forging it for hours and hours using mountains of charcoal. Not to mention that raw iron rusts very quickly and is very brittle, to make something like a sword you need to heat the iron with just the right amount of charcoal. There's a reason we had the "bronze age" for centuries before the "iron age".
Most small settlements of fewer than a dozen inhabitant produce raw-hide and wool clothing, not tanned leather. They make stone and/or bone tools, and build pretty much everything out of wood, resin, rope and mud. There is a reason Europeans were able to trade/colonize the world with simply steel tools / weapons.
Honestly, that's a very silly thing for you to do. Would you set fire to your house because someone broke into it? No, you'd leave the house and go get the authorities / friends or just hide in the woods and wait for the tresspasser to leave. Sure you spend a couple of uncomfortable nights, but at the end you still have a house and your life.
I think you may have missed the part where I said you're right about everything. Clearly, nothing I've said makes any sense, and you're really hit the head on the nail in every way.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
@Acromos
I enjoyed what you wrote but I have to agree with there other posters, it is a bit off topic in regards to my particular situation.
I'm sure if you're raiding a Kobold nest, then yes, they would do all that as Kobolds are expert trap makers. However people have brought up a good point that there is no shared language amongst the Wisps, Beetles and Mephits.
They do interact based off of how the DM has been playing them.
The Wisps guide the mephits, as the mephits are at least intelligent enough to follow them.
The mephits ride the beetles, somewhat like a cowboy, herding 1 or 2 additional beetles with them.
The beetles are the main offensive force. Mephits assist with their mud breath and death burst, and Wisps come in and out of walls to finish off low health or downed PCs.
I think I will go with a long rest at this point because everyone made some excellent points. Even if there is a harder encounter waiting for us, we'll be at full resources.
Without a guiding intellect to formulate a plan, there is none. But if there's someone clever enough to come up with a plan, then in all likelyhood there'll be a plan.
I was making general statements, not analysing your encounter at all. Will-o-wisps are easily clever enough to make plans, and mephits are too. Without looking at numbers at all, beetles could haul a substantial amount of timber. Timber is just wood, so unless it's a dessert, it's almost certain to be abundantly available.
But that's not necessarily how you as GM want to play out the encounter. Killing off the PC's is unattractive. Still, the natural response when faced with a far superior enemy, who has temporarily confined themselves, is to make their bunker their grave. It's ..... all but universal: You try to turn their advantage into a disadvantage. It's so basic, even Sun Tzu said it. In various forms.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
From the original post:
1) Where are the beetles getting the timber from?
2) How are they being trained to haul it by the mephits?
3) How long do you think that entire process takes?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Oh. Ok. This is a medieval world, yes? So ... it's mostly covered in forest. Except, of course, if it's very high in the mountains, in a dessert, or the arctics. If they can be ridden - they have harness, and can be made to haul. I think this entire process takes less than 8 hours. Do you have any idea how much timber you can haul in 8 hours - if the only requirements are drop trees, haul them down some tunnels? A LOT. Easily enough to burn up a room.
Do you know a lot about how stuff burns? No, me neither. But I've seen how a burning couch and some curtains can raise the temperature in a room to 700 degrees in 6-7 minutes.
This isn't some fanciful pipedream I thought up while under heavy sedation in a rubber cell at the asylum. It's not .... difficult. At all.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If the NPC's can make all these plans with fire and wood etc....a smart party can also have an escape plan. Obviously it depends on the parties tools and make up but since I tend to play rangers at 7 hours and 59 minutes I cast rope trick at the top 0f the incide dome/ Have everyone climb up and in. When the caster of the Hut enters this extra demensional space the hut disappears because they left the hut. The party is hidden away above the collapesed fire, rock slide ect... for an hour with no one knowing they were not crushed or burt to a crisp.
I am sure a cleaver party can find some tool/spell to also offset the plans of the NPC's often.
The party is in a dungeon, as stated by OP. How many levels down? How far away are the exits? What's outside?
More assumptions. Why would creatures literally made out of sticky mud need harnesses? If they do, what did they make them out of? Why would riding harnesses be suitable/adaptable for hauling trees?
The entire process of getting to an exit from the dungeon, finding a wooded area, teaching INT 1 giant beetles that live underground how to fell and haul trees, and dragging them back through small tunnels to the party's tiny hut takes under eight hours, huh? Very convenient
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Of course they can come up with a counter. Rope Trick likely isn't it. The entrance will be 60 feet up. That's propably not possible indoors, unless you're in a cathedral - or cathedral-like space. Furthermore, you'd have to climb something like 50 feet through a raging fire of 1000+ degrees, on a burning rope. Not really a viable solution.
The obvious counter is to exit the Hut before the fire is built and lit. But that forces the party to a fight on unfavorable terms, without the ressources they cast the Hut to regain.
Teleportation is another. Something as simple as having a Darkness spell, and a barbarian with blindfighting will also - conceivably - turn the odds in the PC's favor.
My point is, if the PC's don't do anything - they die.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
.... on the other hand, if you want to go into a simple, RAW based counter, this fire would be no hotter than lava, and apparently you can take a swim in lava at the low cost of 18d10 per round. Never mind the fact that such temperatures literally vaporizes you.
So .... by RAW I'm just wrong. You could emerge from the Hut wearing fire resistance (taking just ~30 damage on average), cast Ice Storm to put out the fire, and be good to go.
But for realsies, you'd not even have time to scream.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Rope trick can be any height up to 60 ft high, the spell says : "You touch a length of rope that is up to 60 feet long.", you could touch a 1 ft long piece of rope and have the entrance 1 ft off the ground.
Likewise, the easiest solution to enemies trying to start a fire over the dome, is to simply keep watch and as soon as the enemies start stacking the flammables the party sets them on fire themselves before the enemies have a chance to block up the exits so the fire now smokes out the enemies and will burn itself out long before the dome expires.
And yeah, lots of the game is not realistic b/c fun > realistic.
Wait - it lasts only an hour? Ha! The fire will last much, much longer. But yea, I totally didn't notice the up to. But there are counters, sure. In terms of the PC's setting the fire themselves, that can be solved easily, if you have enough manpower. If not, then it's a definite issue. I'd cast Darkness over the dome, to prevent the PC's knowing what's about to happen.
But I'm not trying to say there's no counter. I'm saying unless you come up with one, you're definitely toast.
And it's actually something you need to think about, in order to counter it. Keep in mind, I mentioned counter attack and teleport in my first post. I am not saying it can't be countered.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If the enemy has enough manpower then the PCs are hopeless outmatched anyway, in which case why are they trying to attack in the first place? Four people cannot take on an army. If you cast Darkness on the dome the PCs absolutely know that something is up and will send out a familiar or something to check it out. The whole idea of "the PCs set up a hut in hostile territory and then take 0 other precautions", is kinda ridiculous. Even with a Tiny Hut they will be keeping watch so if the enemy starts setting up an ambush they will just leave. And most of the time the PCs will still barricade the entrances to the room before setting up a hut.
You accused me of assuming the enemies - many of whom have less intelligence than a dog - of making silly decisions, but I accuse you of assuming the PCs whom are all intelligent humanoids of making extremely silly decisions.
Oh, are we playing the "I'd just do this" game? Cool! Let the enemy stack their curiously accessible stockpiles of wood around the opaque tiny hut. Cast darkness on it. Set all the traps they want
Meanwhile, the warlock's invisible familiar has gone out and collected a rock from another part of the dungeon, and then they use their devil's sight and 7th-level mystic arcanum to teleport the party away as soon as things get hairy. Easy peasy
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)