I have been thinking on this build for a few days and wanted some feedback from the community: The ClerBarian - Cleric / Barbarian Multiclass
The way I was thinking of setting this up is with a Peace Cleric 4 / Ancestral Guardians Barbarian 6 with the remaining levels being divvied up either with more spells (Cleric) or more survivability (Barbarian). Now, I know that you cannot cast or concentrate while raging, but there are a few things that you can do that work pretty well:
Clerics have a number of long duration, non-concentration spells; namely Spiritual Weapon (SW) and Warding Bond (WB). These can be cast before starting your rage and won't ever drop.
Spiritual Weapon is great, because it gives you a way to use your BA (most Barbarians don't have this) and it frees up your action during your rage. This is because keeping rage up requires you to either take damage or make an attack. SW is you making an attack as a bonus action, so you can Dash, Dodge, or use your Channel Divinity as your action.
Channel Divinity is also not a spell, so you can use it to Turn Undead or Balm of Peace to heal your party (Barbarian's Fast Movement at 5 gives this a bump in distance too!)
Now, on to Warding Bond. This spell is practically made for Barbarians! You grant an ally resistance to all damage, and you take the same amount of damage. But since this is a new instance of damage, your Rage resistance will cut that in half again! Meaning, 1/4 of the damage the enemy deals just disappears, your ally takes half (when they would normally take it all), and you soak up 1/4 of the damage with your beefy HP pool. This is also another way to keep Rage going, since you will be taking damage.
And here is where the Ancestral Guardians Barbarian really shines: any time your WB ally takes damage and you are within 30 ft., you can reduce that damage by 2d6. But wait, there's more! Any damage that you reduce from your ally is also reduced against you!
Let's say your ally gets hit with an attack that deals 20 bludgeoning damage. They are within 30 ft. of you and have WB cast on them. You then use your reaction to reduce it by 2d6, roll average and get a total of 7, making it 13 damage dealt. But they have resistance, making it only 6 damage, and you now take 3 damage because of your Rage.
That just turned a 20 damage hit into 9 damage, split between two people. And you can do this round after round after round, so long as your Rage stays up (which it will since you are taking damage).
All of this lets you save your spells for out of combat Cure Wounds or other out of combat utility (something the Barbarian is sorely lacking!). Plus you can prepare a bunch of ritual spells to bolster this even further.
Plus, you can use Emboldening Bond to offset the penalty from GWM (+10 / -5) (though, a Barbarian in a party with a Peace Cleric can do the same thing).
Another point in favor of this is something I just realized. Spiritual Weapon pairs very nicely with Ancestral Protectors. AP procs off of the first target you hit with an attack, meaning that you could use SW first to hit someone far away from you, giving them disadvantage to attack anyone they can reach, and anyone they do hit has resistance to that damage.
The biggest con to this build is being rather MAD. You are going to want high Str and Con, and at least 13 Wis. That means that your Dex is going to suffer, but you can always use Medium Armor with no penalty instead of Unarmored Defense. The other con is that it will take a few rounds to get going if you want to use Warding Bond and Spiritual Weapon.
What do you think? Please let me know if I have overlooked anything.
A lot of barbarians make use of GWM or PAM to allow them to use their bonus actions. I don't think Spiritual Weapon really competes well with that since you've got to split between strength and wisdom for attacks with this build.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As you note, it does clog you up a bit at the start of a fight. With most combats lasting 3-5 rounds, you’re looking at missing out on your rage for 20-33% of the combat. Which means missing out of the DR from rage for that long. That first round after you cast warding bond but before your rage is going could be rough.
And it seems like party composition would be a big factor. If you’re the main tank, you really want that rage going ASAP. Otherwise you’re just standing there getting pummeled.
I think this is a very clever idea, and I really like it thematically for a certain kind of character. I think the Warding Bond/Rage interaction is interesting, but I'm not sure Ancestral Guardian is really the subclass to make full use of it. Your 3rd level ability, Ancestral Protectors, isn't optional; the first creature you hit with an attack on your turn automatically gains disadvantage on attacks against targets other than you, and if that creature hits someone other than you with an attack, that creature gains resistance to all damage the attack deals. This is a great feature, but it's totally counterintuitive with Warding Bond; Ancestral Protectors is meant to force a target to attack you, but the clever double-resistance Warding Bond trick only works if your bondmate is attacked. And since resistance to damage doesn't stack, either the resistance from your subclass feature or the resistance from your Warding Bond is wasted if the target of Ancestral Protectors does attack your Warding Bond target. Additionally, Rage only grants resistance from physical damage by default, which further limits the use case for the Warding Bond trick. I think there's a different Barbarian subclass that could make better use of this spell, but I'll come back to that later.
Spiritual Weapon is a lot weaker here than Warding Bond. Helping maintain Rage is great in theory, but in practice it's a pretty safe bet that you'll take damage on any given turn as a Barbarian (even more so for this build since your DEX is going to be so-so at best). As for the damage, it's unlikely to keep up with a Polearm Master or even Two-Weapon Fighting build unless you invest heavily into Wisdom, which would leave you either very weak or very fragile for a frontliner. The one cool thing Spiritual Weapon could do, in theory, is apply your Ancestral Protectors debuff at range; you can do the same thing by throwing a Hand Axe, though. Overall I think the 2nd level spell slot and Bonus Action could be put to better use. If you don't wait for Spiritual Weapon, you can Warding Bond and Rage on your first turn, cutting the time it takes you to come online dramatically (as long as you manage to take damage that round).
I don't have a whole lot to say about the Peace Domain features; Balm of Peace seems pretty good, although you can't really afford to invest enough in Wisdom to make it shine. Emboldening Bond + GWM is clever, but you probably can't afford to spend an ASI taking GWM on this build (you could get it from Variant Human, but even then I don't think that's the best use of your free feat).
I think if I was going to try a build like this, I would switch the Barbarian subclass to Path of the Totem Warrior, taking Bear totem at 3rd level. I know Bear Totem Warrior is overused, but there's a reason for that: it's very, very good at soaking damage, which is something Barbarians do a lot and something this multi-class will do even more than average. Switching to Totem Warrior gives you resistance on the damage you take from your Warding Bond even when that damage isn't physical. Though you lose out on Spirit Shield, you'll likely reduce more total damage using Bear Totem if your partner takes a heavy blow or gets hit multiple times in a round. Since the 6th level feature of Totem Warrior doesn't do much for this build, we can reassign our levels to be Barbarian 5/Cleric 5. This loses one Rage per long rest but picks up two 3rd-level spell slots. Assuming we stick with Peace Domain, we can pick up Cleric 6 at next level up to gain access to the very powerful Protective Bond feature; this also pairs very nicely with Bear Totem if we choose to redirect damage to ourselves.
With this build I would prioritize CON first and foremost, as you're going to get hit a lot. Next priority would be STR, since you will still be spending most of your Actions on attacks. Whether your third priority is DEX or WIS depends on how often you're casting spells that depend on your WIS. Could be you end up doing more healing out of combat than you expect, in which case the extra WIS will be useful. Otherwise I'd put 3rd priority on DEX, since you'll need all the help you can get to avoid taking even more damage than you're asking for.
Overall I think this is a really neat concept that presents an interesting blend of in-combat party protection with out-of-combat cleric utility. It would also probably be a fun roleplay experience. I would encourage you to focus on the things the build is good at (take loads of damage, protect the party, laugh in the face of death) and worry less about the things it's not good at (spiritual weapon shenanigans, optimal DPS). You're not going to be the best Barb or the best Cleric, but there's a thin path in between them that this multiclass might do better than either.
A lot of barbarians make use of GWM or PAM to allow them to use their bonus actions. I don't think Spiritual Weapon really competes well with that since you've got to split between strength and wisdom for attacks with this build.
I hear you regarding PAM, but can you reliably use GWM to use up your Bonus Action? Barbarians don't get any expanded crit range, so how often is this going to be used? Even so, if you crit and choose to use your BA for another attack, it's not as if Spiritual Weapon disappears. You don't have to use it every round to keep it up.
GWM's bonus attack goes off if you crit OR if you reduce a target to 0 HP with a melee weapon attack. Unless your GM likes to only run combats consisting of single foes with high HP counts, it's generally fairly reliable.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have been thinking on this build for a few days and wanted some feedback from the community: The ClerBarian - Cleric / Barbarian Multiclass
The way I was thinking of setting this up is with a Peace Cleric 4 / Ancestral Guardians Barbarian 6 with the remaining levels being divvied up either with more spells (Cleric) or more survivability (Barbarian). Now, I know that you cannot cast or concentrate while raging, but there are a few things that you can do that work pretty well…
…The biggest con to this build is being rather MAD. You are going to want high Str and Con, and at least 13 Wis. That means that your Dex is going to suffer, but you can always use Medium Armor with no penalty instead of Unarmored Defense. The other con is that it will take a few rounds to get going if you want to use Warding Bond and Spiritual Weapon.
What do you think? Please let me know if I have overlooked anything.
I have been playing a Barbarian/Cleric (Barbaric) in a long term campaign for a few years now. My character is all about looking pretty with blood running down his face while the others do the killing, he is a meat shield unkillable half orc War Priest / Zealot of Tempus. Staked it all on Con, Tough feat, Relentless Endurance, Death Ward, uses up all his spells then rages for half damage - damn but he can take some punishment and tops it off with Warrior of the Gods.
What have I learnt from this? the first thing you need to consider is which way you are going to lean - barbarian for a frontline hitter or cleric for more of a support role, because both will be subpar for several levels. If there is another front liner in your group then I suggest leaning into cleric but start with barb for the con proficiency.
If you intend to be more of a Barbarian the choice is Strength or Constitution build so put it all in strength then wisdom or, constitution then wisdom. I was lucky enough to score some gauntlets of ogre power later in the campaign which helped when I hit mid levels but I use a lot of spells.
My choice str 13, dex 12, con 17, int 8, wis 15, cha 10
don’t expect to be doing a lot of damage with single swings of a axe, a Barbaric is not the kind of build for that. Juicy spells at cleric L5 are so tempting that barbarian might suffer for a bit or just grab a couple of cleric levels and go all the way to Barb L5 for extra attack.
Combat happens quickly so don’t rely on setting up multiples that take several rounds to get going, it’s unlikely to happen.
but if you do get up to level 10+ you will be formidable and consider that - question will I get there? Or is my character going to be somewhat limited for most of the game and then not hit the sweet spot?!
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I have been thinking on this build for a few days and wanted some feedback from the community: The ClerBarian - Cleric / Barbarian Multiclass
The way I was thinking of setting this up is with a Peace Cleric 4 / Ancestral Guardians Barbarian 6 with the remaining levels being divvied up either with more spells (Cleric) or more survivability (Barbarian). Now, I know that you cannot cast or concentrate while raging, but there are a few things that you can do that work pretty well:
The biggest con to this build is being rather MAD. You are going to want high Str and Con, and at least 13 Wis. That means that your Dex is going to suffer, but you can always use Medium Armor with no penalty instead of Unarmored Defense. The other con is that it will take a few rounds to get going if you want to use Warding Bond and Spiritual Weapon.
What do you think? Please let me know if I have overlooked anything.
A lot of barbarians make use of GWM or PAM to allow them to use their bonus actions. I don't think Spiritual Weapon really competes well with that since you've got to split between strength and wisdom for attacks with this build.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Reckless Attack serves the same basic function as crit on 19 or 20 in terms of probability.
As you note, it does clog you up a bit at the start of a fight. With most combats lasting 3-5 rounds, you’re looking at missing out on your rage for 20-33% of the combat. Which means missing out of the DR from rage for that long. That first round after you cast warding bond but before your rage is going could be rough.
And it seems like party composition would be a big factor. If you’re the main tank, you really want that rage going ASAP. Otherwise you’re just standing there getting pummeled.
I think this is a very clever idea, and I really like it thematically for a certain kind of character. I think the Warding Bond/Rage interaction is interesting, but I'm not sure Ancestral Guardian is really the subclass to make full use of it. Your 3rd level ability, Ancestral Protectors, isn't optional; the first creature you hit with an attack on your turn automatically gains disadvantage on attacks against targets other than you, and if that creature hits someone other than you with an attack, that creature gains resistance to all damage the attack deals. This is a great feature, but it's totally counterintuitive with Warding Bond; Ancestral Protectors is meant to force a target to attack you, but the clever double-resistance Warding Bond trick only works if your bondmate is attacked. And since resistance to damage doesn't stack, either the resistance from your subclass feature or the resistance from your Warding Bond is wasted if the target of Ancestral Protectors does attack your Warding Bond target. Additionally, Rage only grants resistance from physical damage by default, which further limits the use case for the Warding Bond trick. I think there's a different Barbarian subclass that could make better use of this spell, but I'll come back to that later.
Spiritual Weapon is a lot weaker here than Warding Bond. Helping maintain Rage is great in theory, but in practice it's a pretty safe bet that you'll take damage on any given turn as a Barbarian (even more so for this build since your DEX is going to be so-so at best). As for the damage, it's unlikely to keep up with a Polearm Master or even Two-Weapon Fighting build unless you invest heavily into Wisdom, which would leave you either very weak or very fragile for a frontliner. The one cool thing Spiritual Weapon could do, in theory, is apply your Ancestral Protectors debuff at range; you can do the same thing by throwing a Hand Axe, though. Overall I think the 2nd level spell slot and Bonus Action could be put to better use. If you don't wait for Spiritual Weapon, you can Warding Bond and Rage on your first turn, cutting the time it takes you to come online dramatically (as long as you manage to take damage that round).
I don't have a whole lot to say about the Peace Domain features; Balm of Peace seems pretty good, although you can't really afford to invest enough in Wisdom to make it shine. Emboldening Bond + GWM is clever, but you probably can't afford to spend an ASI taking GWM on this build (you could get it from Variant Human, but even then I don't think that's the best use of your free feat).
I think if I was going to try a build like this, I would switch the Barbarian subclass to Path of the Totem Warrior, taking Bear totem at 3rd level. I know Bear Totem Warrior is overused, but there's a reason for that: it's very, very good at soaking damage, which is something Barbarians do a lot and something this multi-class will do even more than average. Switching to Totem Warrior gives you resistance on the damage you take from your Warding Bond even when that damage isn't physical. Though you lose out on Spirit Shield, you'll likely reduce more total damage using Bear Totem if your partner takes a heavy blow or gets hit multiple times in a round. Since the 6th level feature of Totem Warrior doesn't do much for this build, we can reassign our levels to be Barbarian 5/Cleric 5. This loses one Rage per long rest but picks up two 3rd-level spell slots. Assuming we stick with Peace Domain, we can pick up Cleric 6 at next level up to gain access to the very powerful Protective Bond feature; this also pairs very nicely with Bear Totem if we choose to redirect damage to ourselves.
With this build I would prioritize CON first and foremost, as you're going to get hit a lot. Next priority would be STR, since you will still be spending most of your Actions on attacks. Whether your third priority is DEX or WIS depends on how often you're casting spells that depend on your WIS. Could be you end up doing more healing out of combat than you expect, in which case the extra WIS will be useful. Otherwise I'd put 3rd priority on DEX, since you'll need all the help you can get to avoid taking even more damage than you're asking for.
Overall I think this is a really neat concept that presents an interesting blend of in-combat party protection with out-of-combat cleric utility. It would also probably be a fun roleplay experience. I would encourage you to focus on the things the build is good at (take loads of damage, protect the party, laugh in the face of death) and worry less about the things it's not good at (spiritual weapon shenanigans, optimal DPS). You're not going to be the best Barb or the best Cleric, but there's a thin path in between them that this multiclass might do better than either.
Also, "BarClerian" was right there, come on man
GWM's bonus attack goes off if you crit OR if you reduce a target to 0 HP with a melee weapon attack. Unless your GM likes to only run combats consisting of single foes with high HP counts, it's generally fairly reliable.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have been playing a Barbarian/Cleric (Barbaric) in a long term campaign for a few years now. My character is all about looking pretty with blood running down his face while the others do the killing, he is a meat shield unkillable half orc War Priest / Zealot of Tempus. Staked it all on Con, Tough feat, Relentless Endurance, Death Ward, uses up all his spells then rages for half damage - damn but he can take some punishment and tops it off with Warrior of the Gods.
What have I learnt from this? the first thing you need to consider is which way you are going to lean - barbarian for a frontline hitter or cleric for more of a support role, because both will be subpar for several levels. If there is another front liner in your group then I suggest leaning into cleric but start with barb for the con proficiency.
If you intend to be more of a Barbarian the choice is Strength or Constitution build so put it all in strength then wisdom or, constitution then wisdom. I was lucky enough to score some gauntlets of ogre power later in the campaign which helped when I hit mid levels but I use a lot of spells.
My choice str 13, dex 12, con 17, int 8, wis 15, cha 10
don’t expect to be doing a lot of damage with single swings of a axe, a Barbaric is not the kind of build for that. Juicy spells at cleric L5 are so tempting that barbarian might suffer for a bit or just grab a couple of cleric levels and go all the way to Barb L5 for extra attack.
Combat happens quickly so don’t rely on setting up multiples that take several rounds to get going, it’s unlikely to happen.
but if you do get up to level 10+ you will be formidable and consider that - question will I get there? Or is my character going to be somewhat limited for most of the game and then not hit the sweet spot?!