Lions might paw at loose dirt at the entrance to a warthog or aardvark burrow, but they do not dig in any meaningful way. They're not going to try to meaningfully widen the tunnels of a warthog's burrow in order to chase the warthog in it, much less dig a hole all on their own. As The_Ace_of_Rogues points out, the Tarrasque's claws and fingers are proportionately long and slender, not suited for moving large amounts of dirt in a short time. It could easily dig furrows in the ground but doing more than that would be a long process.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Where are you getting 5 cubic feet from? The thing has spindly T-rex fingers going by the images. Smashing up structures is very different from excavating, and those forelimbs sure aren't built for.
I'm getting them from DDB's own image where they index the Tarrasque. Those are some beefy arms ending in some very dangerously large claws.
The Siege Monster ability applies to all structures, including ones made to withstand a great deal of stress, such as the walls of a castle. Considering that most floors are Not built by hands nor designed by minds specifically to withstand a great deal of force, there's every reason to assume that a 5 foot per round digging speed is very reasonable unless that floor is entirely made of thick layers of steel or even harder material.
Lions might paw at loose dirt at the entrance to a warthog or aardvark burrow, but they do not dig in any meaningful way. They're not going to try to meaningfully widen the tunnels of a warthog's burrow in order to chase the warthog in it, much less dig a hole all on their own. As The_Ace_of_Rogues points out, the Tarrasque's claws and fingers are proportionately long and slender, not suited for moving large amounts of dirt in a short time. It could easily dig furrows in the ground but doing more than that would be a long process.
Nope. This very video uploaded to YouTube shows a male lion digging up a warthog in less than a minute. And lions don't have the Siege Monster ability the way that a Tarrasque does. Lest you think the first video an anomaly, here is a second video of a lioness doing the same thing (though being weaker, it takes her longer). Official D&D Lion INT is 3. Tarrasque INT is also 3. Correlation?
Lions might paw at loose dirt at the entrance to a warthog or aardvark burrow, but they do not dig in any meaningful way. They're not going to try to meaningfully widen the tunnels of a warthog's burrow in order to chase the warthog in it, much less dig a hole all on their own. As The_Ace_of_Rogues points out, the Tarrasque's claws and fingers are proportionately long and slender, not suited for moving large amounts of dirt in a short time. It could easily dig furrows in the ground but doing more than that would be a long process.
Nope. This very video uploaded to YouTube shows a male lion digging up a warthog in less than a minute. And lions don't have the Siege Monster ability the way that a Tarrasque does. Lest you think the first video an anomaly, here is a second video of a lioness doing the same thing (though being weaker, it takes her longer). Official D&D Lion INT is 3. Tarrasque INT is also 3. Correlation?
Did you fail to notice how many cuts there were in either video? In the first, not only does the lion change position, there's a noticeable difference in the time of day from one cut to another. The video might be less than two minutes long, but that's because it was edited down into something watchable. The actual event probably took a couple of hours at least. And both videos show the lions pawing at loose dirt, not breaking through hard ground, which is what I said they do.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
People tend to underestimate how intelligent non-primate animals can be. Any creature with an INT of 3 (again, the INT of a Wolf or Lion) is capable of learning and simple problem-solving. Just because we do not see them using tools, we assume that they are "simple" and "driven purely by instinct" when real observation shows us that this prejudice emerges from an incomplete understanding of their capabilities.
I suggest that you just make a Clay Golem. I don't know if 2024 rules will change this, but in 2014 rules Clay Golems are immune to every type of damage the tarrasque could ever deal. And there are magic items to create them (and maybe spells to do so, but I don't know).
Check out Monach of the Realms forum game!As Djinni you'll know me, for I am your king. From void I have shaped thee, I've shaped everything. But please do not kneel, just look and behold, I rule you to heal and share stories untold. The mask that I wear is a crude one of glass, so your soul will repair if you glance at me fast. You'll pray that you know me, and I'll let your heart ring. I'm as strong as the world tree and I'll make your heart sing.
People tend to underestimate how intelligent non-primate animals can be. Any creature with an INT of 3 (again, the INT of a Wolf or Lion) is capable of learning and simple problem-solving. Just because we do not see them using tools, we assume that they are "simple" and "driven purely by instinct" when real observation shows us that this prejudice emerges from an incomplete understanding of their capabilities.
Very true for sure. Wolves are also ranked as some of the smartest existing animals, and they're a 3. The stat block of Ape is I believe an INT of 6, which if I recall correctly is the same as the tarrasque, meaning it's as smart as some of the smartest tool-using and problem-solving animals to ever exist.
Check out Monach of the Realms forum game!As Djinni you'll know me, for I am your king. From void I have shaped thee, I've shaped everything. But please do not kneel, just look and behold, I rule you to heal and share stories untold. The mask that I wear is a crude one of glass, so your soul will repair if you glance at me fast. You'll pray that you know me, and I'll let your heart ring. I'm as strong as the world tree and I'll make your heart sing.
(BTW, I'm pretty sure an admin is going to come shut this down because it has gotten off topic)
So basically, you'd have to trap the tarrasque in a space with sturdy floors, then surround it with three walls of force? How would this help beat it, exactly?
If you can drop a persistent damaging AoE effect in there you might eventually be able to do enough damage like that to kill it, although I don't have any hard numbers on hand for which spells might work for that.
Lions might paw at loose dirt at the entrance to a warthog or aardvark burrow, but they do not dig in any meaningful way. They're not going to try to meaningfully widen the tunnels of a warthog's burrow in order to chase the warthog in it, much less dig a hole all on their own. As The_Ace_of_Rogues points out, the Tarrasque's claws and fingers are proportionately long and slender, not suited for moving large amounts of dirt in a short time. It could easily dig furrows in the ground but doing more than that would be a long process.
Nope. This very video uploaded to YouTube shows a male lion digging up a warthog in less than a minute. And lions don't have the Siege Monster ability the way that a Tarrasque does. Lest you think the first video an anomaly, here is a second video of a lioness doing the same thing (though being weaker, it takes her longer). Official D&D Lion INT is 3. Tarrasque INT is also 3. Correlation?
Did you fail to notice how many cuts there were in either video? In the first, not only does the lion change position, there's a noticeable difference in the time of day from one cut to another. The video might be less than two minutes long, but that's because it was edited down into something watchable. The actual event probably took a couple of hours at least. And both videos show the lions pawing at loose dirt, not breaking through hard ground, which is what I said they do.
While I do acknowledge that the videos were cut somewhat for time there is absolutely no doubt that Lions have the Intelligence to dig into the ground to get at a food animal that they very much want to eat. That part is not disputable, yes?
Another thing we are forgetting is the Lion only has a STR score of 17 in D&D. That is +3 STR bonus. The Tarrasque has a STR score of 30, which is +10. That is over 3X as strong as a Lion on a purely numerical comparison. However, a Storm Giant has a STR score of 29, which is +9. Is a Storm Giant only 3X stronger than a regular Lion? No, it is likely at least 10X stronger, right? Well that would mean the Tarrasque is at least 10X stronger than the Lion as well. The Tarrasque ALSO has Siege Monster feature, which you forgot to address. For comparison, let's look at the Ankheg, a creature that has Burrow listed in its movement speed. An Ankheg's STR is only 17! And it burrows at 10 feet per round. So what you are telling me is that a creature at least 10X stronger than an Ankheg or a Lion, that has massive claws, beefy-ass arms, and the ability to pulverize a literal Castle, is unable to even dig at 5 feet per round through regular earth? Is that really the argument you are going to stick to?
And a 3 INT is certainly enough to learn and to solve simple problems. Look, the Mastiff and the Wolf also both have an INT of 3. Neither of them have Burrow speeds. What your original INT-based argument amounts to is to that say that a Wolf or Mastiff that is stronger than a literal STORM GIANT (and was as big as a Tarrasque) would not have enough brains to figure out that it could and should dig itself out of an otherwise literal impossible enclosure when it is feeling hungry. The ground is weaker than a Wall of Force in multiple ways. If a humongous Wolf could do it, so can a Tarrasque.
Note also that if your continued argument is that a Wolf or Lion is unable to figure out that the ground is a diggable substance far far softer than a Wall of Force, that's pretty much your assessment of Dog and Cat intelligence as well since both those animals have an INT of 3 in D&D. Same as the Tarrasque. Are dogs and cats really that dumb to you? Is that your personal observation?
Lions might paw at loose dirt at the entrance to a warthog or aardvark burrow, but they do not dig in any meaningful way. They're not going to try to meaningfully widen the tunnels of a warthog's burrow in order to chase the warthog in it, much less dig a hole all on their own. As The_Ace_of_Rogues points out, the Tarrasque's claws and fingers are proportionately long and slender, not suited for moving large amounts of dirt in a short time. It could easily dig furrows in the ground but doing more than that would be a long process.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm getting them from DDB's own image where they index the Tarrasque. Those are some beefy arms ending in some very dangerously large claws.
The Siege Monster ability applies to all structures, including ones made to withstand a great deal of stress, such as the walls of a castle. Considering that most floors are Not built by hands nor designed by minds specifically to withstand a great deal of force, there's every reason to assume that a 5 foot per round digging speed is very reasonable unless that floor is entirely made of thick layers of steel or even harder material.
Nope. This very video uploaded to YouTube shows a male lion digging up a warthog in less than a minute. And lions don't have the Siege Monster ability the way that a Tarrasque does. Lest you think the first video an anomaly, here is a second video of a lioness doing the same thing (though being weaker, it takes her longer). Official D&D Lion INT is 3. Tarrasque INT is also 3. Correlation?
Did you fail to notice how many cuts there were in either video? In the first, not only does the lion change position, there's a noticeable difference in the time of day from one cut to another. The video might be less than two minutes long, but that's because it was edited down into something watchable. The actual event probably took a couple of hours at least. And both videos show the lions pawing at loose dirt, not breaking through hard ground, which is what I said they do.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
People tend to underestimate how intelligent non-primate animals can be. Any creature with an INT of 3 (again, the INT of a Wolf or Lion) is capable of learning and simple problem-solving. Just because we do not see them using tools, we assume that they are "simple" and "driven purely by instinct" when real observation shows us that this prejudice emerges from an incomplete understanding of their capabilities.
[Redacted]
I suggest that you just make a Clay Golem. I don't know if 2024 rules will change this, but in 2014 rules Clay Golems are immune to every type of damage the tarrasque could ever deal. And there are magic items to create them (and maybe spells to do so, but I don't know).
Check out Monach of the Realms forum game! As Djinni you'll know me, for I am your king. From void I have shaped thee, I've shaped everything. But please do not kneel, just look and behold, I rule you to heal and share stories untold. The mask that I wear is a crude one of glass, so your soul will repair if you glance at me fast. You'll pray that you know me, and I'll let your heart ring. I'm as strong as the world tree and I'll make your heart sing.
Very true for sure. Wolves are also ranked as some of the smartest existing animals, and they're a 3. The stat block of Ape is I believe an INT of 6, which if I recall correctly is the same as the tarrasque, meaning it's as smart as some of the smartest tool-using and problem-solving animals to ever exist.
[Redacted]
Check out Monach of the Realms forum game! As Djinni you'll know me, for I am your king. From void I have shaped thee, I've shaped everything. But please do not kneel, just look and behold, I rule you to heal and share stories untold. The mask that I wear is a crude one of glass, so your soul will repair if you glance at me fast. You'll pray that you know me, and I'll let your heart ring. I'm as strong as the world tree and I'll make your heart sing.
The Tarrasque's intelligence score is 3.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
(BTW, I'm pretty sure an admin is going to come shut this down because it has gotten off topic)
So basically, you'd have to trap the tarrasque in a space with sturdy floors, then surround it with three walls of force? How would this help beat it, exactly?
Roll for Initiative: [roll]1d20+7[/roll]
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If you can drop a persistent damaging AoE effect in there you might eventually be able to do enough damage like that to kill it, although I don't have any hard numbers on hand for which spells might work for that.
You'd need to use multiple AoEs, preferably ones that target its weaker saving throws.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
And/or upcast them for more damage.
While I do acknowledge that the videos were cut somewhat for time there is absolutely no doubt that Lions have the Intelligence to dig into the ground to get at a food animal that they very much want to eat. That part is not disputable, yes?
Another thing we are forgetting is the Lion only has a STR score of 17 in D&D. That is +3 STR bonus. The Tarrasque has a STR score of 30, which is +10. That is over 3X as strong as a Lion on a purely numerical comparison. However, a Storm Giant has a STR score of 29, which is +9. Is a Storm Giant only 3X stronger than a regular Lion? No, it is likely at least 10X stronger, right? Well that would mean the Tarrasque is at least 10X stronger than the Lion as well. The Tarrasque ALSO has Siege Monster feature, which you forgot to address. For comparison, let's look at the Ankheg, a creature that has Burrow listed in its movement speed. An Ankheg's STR is only 17! And it burrows at 10 feet per round. So what you are telling me is that a creature at least 10X stronger than an Ankheg or a Lion, that has massive claws, beefy-ass arms, and the ability to pulverize a literal Castle, is unable to even dig at 5 feet per round through regular earth? Is that really the argument you are going to stick to?
And a 3 INT is certainly enough to learn and to solve simple problems. Look, the Mastiff and the Wolf also both have an INT of 3. Neither of them have Burrow speeds. What your original INT-based argument amounts to is to that say that a Wolf or Mastiff that is stronger than a literal STORM GIANT (and was as big as a Tarrasque) would not have enough brains to figure out that it could and should dig itself out of an otherwise literal impossible enclosure when it is feeling hungry. The ground is weaker than a Wall of Force in multiple ways. If a humongous Wolf could do it, so can a Tarrasque.
Note also that if your continued argument is that a Wolf or Lion is unable to figure out that the ground is a diggable substance far far softer than a Wall of Force, that's pretty much your assessment of Dog and Cat intelligence as well since both those animals have an INT of 3 in D&D. Same as the Tarrasque. Are dogs and cats really that dumb to you? Is that your personal observation?