Warcaster is a must for 4th level especially for gishes, get yourself up to 18 CHA and that advantage on CON saves and spell opportunity attacks.
At 8th, it depends what your build is, if you are wearing heavy armour you're probably fine on AC and can go for +2 CHA. If you are wearing medium armour then your AC would only be 16 (maybe 17) so you'll probably want Defensive Duelist if you're mainly fighting in melee.
At 12th, pick up the other one of either Defensive Duelist or +2 CHA, whichever you didn't take at 8th.
Lastly pick up Dual Wielder. After that if you have any more ASIs pick your favourite. I'd also collect a bunch of background feats with Lessons of the First Ones: Tough, maybe Alert, Magic Initiate (to get Absorb Elements and maybe Shillelagh).
I had a feeling you’d say something like that. I’ll make sure to make a note of these for my two weapon build.
My current eldritch invocations are Pact of the Blade, Agonizing Blast, Pact of the Chain, Eldritch Smite, Thirsting Blade, Repelling Blast, Tough, Devouring Blade, Witch’s Sight, and Lifedrinker (in that order.) I could drop Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast and/or Pact of the Chain for more lessons of the first ones.
What would you recommend for an Epic Boon? I originally had Boon of Fortitude to boost my healing as a Celestial Warlock, but if I’m not maxing out my constitution and thus hit points I’m not sure if I should still go that route.
EDIT: It’s not letting me choose Lessons of the first Ones more than once. Also, Defensive Duelist isn’t increasing my AC. Strange.
Ok, so the two weapon fighting style description said:
“When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.”
My question is which ability modifier do I add: my primary weapon’s Pact Blade Charisma, or my secondary weapon’s Dexterity? If it’s a plus 5 from Charisma I definitely want it, but if it’s only a +2 from Dexterity, should I instead go with something like Defense for my fighting style?
Ok, so the two weapon fighting style description said:
“When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.”
My question is which ability modifier do I add: my primary weapon’s Pact Blade Charisma, or my secondary weapon’s Dexterity? If it’s a plus 5 from Charisma I definitely want it, but if it’s only a +2 from Dexterity, should I instead go with something like Defense for my fighting style?
Whichever one you would add were you attacking with it singly.
Ok, so the two weapon fighting style description said:
“When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.”
My question is which ability modifier do I add: my primary weapon’s Pact Blade Charisma, or my secondary weapon’s Dexterity? If it’s a plus 5 from Charisma I definitely want it, but if it’s only a +2 from Dexterity, should I instead go with something like Defense for my fighting style?
Attacking with a Pact of the Blade Light weapon and a different light weapon while you have Two-Weapon Fighting feat means any attacks will add their respective ability modifier;
Light Weapon will use your Strenght or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls.
Pact Weapon will use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
Ok, so the two weapon fighting style description said:
“When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.”
My question is which ability modifier do I add: my primary weapon’s Pact Blade Charisma, or my secondary weapon’s Dexterity? If it’s a plus 5 from Charisma I definitely want it, but if it’s only a +2 from Dexterity, should I instead go with something like Defense for my fighting style?
Attacking with a Pact of the Blade Light weapon and a different light weapon while you have Two-Weapon Fighting feat means any attacks will add their respective ability modifier;
Light Weapon will use your Strenght or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls.
Pact Weapon will use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
When you say any, do you mean if i dual wield i NEED two weapon fighting for BOTH MY MODIFIERS to work?
yes. We'll assume 2x scimitars for this example (assuming base 16 dex)
your first weapon will do 1d6+3 damage, and when you use the light property, the next attack will deal 1d6. The only way to get your dex (or str/cha) mod on the light property weapon attack is to have the two weapon fighting style.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
When you say any, do you mean if i dual wield i NEED two weapon fighting for BOTH MY MODIFIERS to work?
If you don't have the Two Weapon Fighting feat, then the extra attack don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Ok, i think I understand now. Thanks! Not sure it’s worth +2 damage with my offhand scimitar (dexterity 14) though compared to +1 armor though. Is it? I know defense is what you pick if you have nothing better to, but I’m just not sure if that is the case here or not.
Ok, i think I understand now. Thanks! Not sure it’s worth +2 damage with my offhand scimitar (dexterity 14) though compared to +1 armor though. Is it? I know defense is what you pick if you have nothing better to, but I’m just not sure if that is the case here or not.
Note that the Two Weapon Fighting feat let you add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage of the Light property and Dual Wielder so if you use a Nick mastery property you could make 3 attack, 4 + with Extra Attack.
Ok, i think I understand now. Thanks! Not sure it’s worth +2 damage with my offhand scimitar (dexterity 14) though compared to +1 armor though. Is it? I know defense is what you pick if you have nothing better to, but I’m just not sure if that is the case here or not.
Note that the Two Weapon Fighting feat let you add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage of the Light property and Dual Wielder so if you use a Nick mastery property you could make 3 attack, 4 + with Extra Attack.
Wait wait wait… are you saying taking both of them somehow gives me an extra “attack” (1d6+2) each!?
Does taking the fighting style count, or does it have to be the feat?
Would I still have to take the 2014 version to dual wield a rapier? Is that even allowed to use both!?
Wait wait wait… are you saying taking both of them somehow gives me an extra “attack” (1d6+2) each!?
Does taking the fighting style count, or does it have to be the feat?
Would I still have to take the 2014 version to dual wield a rapier? Is that even allowed to use both!?
To summarize:
Two-Weapon Fighting 2024: Basic: Action = 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + Extra Attack: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + Dual Wielder: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (no mod) + Two Weapon Fighting: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (yes mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (yes mod)
With Dual Wielder you could make 2 attacks with a Rapier (one in your action and one as your BA) + 2 attacks with a scimitar (one is your action and one as Nick).
Wait wait wait… are you saying taking both of them somehow gives me an extra “attack” (1d6+2) each!?
Does taking the fighting style count, or does it have to be the feat?
Would I still have to take the 2014 version to dual wield a rapier? Is that even allowed to use both!?
To summarize:
Two-Weapon Fighting 2024: Basic: Action = 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + Extra Attack: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + Dual Wielder: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (no mod) + Two Weapon Fighting: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (yes mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (yes mod)
With Dual Wielder you could make 2 attacks with a Rapier (one in your action and one as your BA) + 2 attacks with a scimitar (one is your action and one as Nick).
…mind… BLOWN!
Guess I’ll definitely be making those changes! I’ll have to remember this formula too.
Dual Wielding is spread all over and you have to follow all the rules and it gets complicated until you wrap your head around it all.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
+
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.
+
Dual Wielder General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
If you're short on feats, you might talk to your DM and see if a Scimitar of Speed might be available which would negate the need to take Dual Wielder at 4th level for your 3rd attack as a Bonus Action. It would be a rather powerful magic item that early, but maybe he could work it in as a Pact Weapon.
Wait wait wait… are you saying taking both of them somehow gives me an extra “attack” (1d6+2) each!?
Does taking the fighting style count, or does it have to be the feat?
Would I still have to take the 2014 version to dual wield a rapier? Is that even allowed to use both!?
To summarize:
Two-Weapon Fighting 2024: Basic: Action = 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + Extra Attack: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + Dual Wielder: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (no mod) + Two Weapon Fighting: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (yes mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (yes mod)
With Dual Wielder you could make 2 attacks with a Rapier (one in your action and one as your BA) + 2 attacks with a scimitar (one is your action and one as Nick).
It's nice to see that the 2024 rules brought back the "Will it blend?" gameplay to two-weapon fighting.
If you're short on feats, you might talk to your DM and see if a Scimitar of Speed might be available which would negate the need to take Dual Wielder at 4th level for your 3rd attack as a Bonus Action. It would be a rather powerful magic item that early, but maybe he could work it in as a Pact Weapon.
Interesting. I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask. Still, I had planned on my shortsword being my pact weapon since it will ultimately be attacking more when i level up and get extra attack(s). Should i consider switching?
also, is this bonus attack from the magic scimitar in addition to the nick property attack. Do they both benefit from hex?
my current build based on the advice of Agilemind above is level 4: warcaster, level 8: +2 charisma, level 12: defensive duelist, level 16: dual wield, and level 19: boon of fortitude. Would you really consider having me take dual wield first?
The extra attack from the Light Property can be made with a Scimitar of Speed as part of the Attack action if you have Nick Mastery, and attacked with different Light weapon. This mean you can also attack with it as Bonus Action and Hex let you deal an extra 1d6 Necrotic damage whenever you hit it with an attack roll.
also, is this bonus attack from the magic scimitar in addition to the nick property attack. Do they both benefit from hex?
With Hex up, if you hit the target with anything that used an attack roll, you deal extra damage. If there was an effect that required an attack roll, but did not deal damage, it is not clear if it would deal damage (it is dealing extra damage), but that would be an extreme edge case. I can't think of anything that requires an attack roll and doesn't deal damage.
Warcaster is a must for 4th level especially for gishes, get yourself up to 18 CHA and that advantage on CON saves and spell opportunity attacks.
At 8th, it depends what your build is, if you are wearing heavy armour you're probably fine on AC and can go for +2 CHA. If you are wearing medium armour then your AC would only be 16 (maybe 17) so you'll probably want Defensive Duelist if you're mainly fighting in melee.
At 12th, pick up the other one of either Defensive Duelist or +2 CHA, whichever you didn't take at 8th.
Lastly pick up Dual Wielder. After that if you have any more ASIs pick your favourite. I'd also collect a bunch of background feats with Lessons of the First Ones: Tough, maybe Alert, Magic Initiate (to get Absorb Elements and maybe Shillelagh).
I had a feeling you’d say something like that. I’ll make sure to make a note of these for my two weapon build.
My current eldritch invocations are Pact of the Blade, Agonizing Blast, Pact of the Chain, Eldritch Smite, Thirsting Blade, Repelling Blast, Tough, Devouring Blade, Witch’s Sight, and Lifedrinker (in that order.) I could drop Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast and/or Pact of the Chain for more lessons of the first ones.
What would you recommend for an Epic Boon? I originally had Boon of Fortitude to boost my healing as a Celestial Warlock, but if I’m not maxing out my constitution and thus hit points I’m not sure if I should still go that route.
EDIT: It’s not letting me choose Lessons of the first Ones more than once. Also, Defensive Duelist isn’t increasing my AC. Strange.
Ok, so the two weapon fighting style description said:
“When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.”
My question is which ability modifier do I add: my primary weapon’s Pact Blade Charisma, or my secondary weapon’s Dexterity? If it’s a plus 5 from Charisma I definitely want it, but if it’s only a +2 from Dexterity, should I instead go with something like Defense for my fighting style?
Whichever one you would add were you attacking with it singly.
Attacking with a Pact of the Blade Light weapon and a different light weapon while you have Two-Weapon Fighting feat means any attacks will add their respective ability modifier;
Light Weapon will use your Strenght or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls.
Pact Weapon will use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
When you say any, do you mean if i dual wield i NEED two weapon fighting for BOTH MY MODIFIERS to work?
yes. We'll assume 2x scimitars for this example (assuming base 16 dex)
your first weapon will do 1d6+3 damage, and when you use the light property, the next attack will deal 1d6. The only way to get your dex (or str/cha) mod on the light property weapon attack is to have the two weapon fighting style.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If you don't have the Two Weapon Fighting feat, then the extra attack don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Ok, i think I understand now. Thanks! Not sure it’s worth +2 damage with my offhand scimitar (dexterity 14) though compared to +1 armor though. Is it? I know defense is what you pick if you have nothing better to, but I’m just not sure if that is the case here or not.
Note that the Two Weapon Fighting feat let you add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage of the Light property and Dual Wielder so if you use a Nick mastery property you could make 3 attack, 4 + with Extra Attack.
Wait wait wait… are you saying taking both of them somehow gives me an extra “attack” (1d6+2) each!?
Does taking the fighting style count, or does it have to be the feat?
Would I still have to take the 2014 version to dual wield a rapier? Is that even allowed to use both!?
To summarize:
Two-Weapon Fighting 2024:
Basic: Action = 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod)
+ Extra Attack: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod)
+ Dual Wielder: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (no mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (no mod)
+ Two Weapon Fighting: Action = 1 Attack with any weapon + 1 Attack with a Light weapon + 1 Attack with a Nick weapon (yes mod) + BA = Attack with any one-handed weapon (yes mod)
With Dual Wielder you could make 2 attacks with a Rapier (one in your action and one as your BA) + 2 attacks with a scimitar (one is your action and one as Nick).
…
…mind… BLOWN!
Guess I’ll definitely be making those changes! I’ll have to remember this formula too.
Thank you all for your help, as always!
Dual Wielding is spread all over and you have to follow all the rules and it gets complicated until you wrap your head around it all.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
+
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
+
Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighting Style Feat (Prerequisite: Fighting Style Feature)
When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.
+
Dual Wielder
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
If you're short on feats, you might talk to your DM and see if a Scimitar of Speed might be available which would negate the need to take Dual Wielder at 4th level for your 3rd attack as a Bonus Action. It would be a rather powerful magic item that early, but maybe he could work it in as a Pact Weapon.
It's nice to see that the 2024 rules brought back the "Will it blend?" gameplay to two-weapon fighting.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Interesting. I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask. Still, I had planned on my shortsword being my pact weapon since it will ultimately be attacking more when i level up and get extra attack(s). Should i consider switching?
my current build based on the advice of Agilemind above is level 4: warcaster, level 8: +2 charisma, level 12: defensive duelist, level 16: dual wield, and level 19: boon of fortitude. Would you really consider having me take dual wield first?
The extra attack from the Light Property can be made with a Scimitar of Speed as part of the Attack action if you have Nick Mastery, and attacked with different Light weapon. This mean you can also attack with it as Bonus Action and Hex let you deal an extra 1d6 Necrotic damage whenever you hit it with an attack roll.
With Hex up, if you hit the target with anything that used an attack roll, you deal extra damage. If there was an effect that required an attack roll, but did not deal damage, it is not clear if it would deal damage (it is dealing extra damage), but that would be an extreme edge case. I can't think of anything that requires an attack roll and doesn't deal damage.
How to add Tooltips.
A creature hit by a Net is restrained and a Roper 's Tendril attack do grappled on a hit to give few examples.
Extra damage should be added to existing damage by definition.