Given the large argument about whether true strike works with agonizing blast, I wondered what people think about repelling blast. So, does repelling blast work with true strike given it requires a cantrip that does damage via an attack roll? [edit: you only need to have a cantrip that fulfills that and the cantrip for the invocation just needs an attack roll] eldritch invocations
Additionally I also had the thought of using both agonizing blast and repelling blast with the cleave weapon mastery. Would that work? weapon masteries
Given the large argument about whether true strike works with agonizing blast, I wondered what people think about repelling blast. So, does repelling blast work with [spell]true strike[/spells] given it requires a cantrip that does damage via an attack roll? eldritch invocations
Additionally I also had the thought of using both agonizing blast and repelling blast with the cleave weapon mastery. Would that work? weapon masteries
The situation with Repelling Blast is a lot more clear. What it actually says is "one of your known Warlock cantrips that requires an attack roll". That specific wording (probably accidentally, to be honest) sidesteps the question of whether the cantrip actually does damage, which is what the argument is about with Agonizing Blast. True Strike definitely requires an attack roll, regardless of whether it's the cantrip dealing damage or not, so it's eligible for Repelling Blast.
As for weapon mastery properties, any that involve making an attack with the weapon in question (which is almost all of them, including Cleave) would work in conjunction with True Strike. However, the secondary attack from Cleave wouldn't use your spellcasting ability, or incorporate the extra damage or other effects from things like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
However, the secondary attack from Cleave wouldn't use your spellcasting ability, or incorporate the extra damage or other effects from things like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
However, the secondary attack from Cleave wouldn't use your spellcasting ability, or incorporate the extra damage or other effects from things like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
Okay, but why.
Because all that stuff is coming from the attack's association with True Strike, which says:
Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
It's pretty specific about it only being one attack that's affected by the spell.
However, the secondary attack from Cleave wouldn't use your spellcasting ability, or incorporate the extra damage or other effects from things like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
Okay, but why.
Because all that stuff is coming from the attack's association with True Strike, which says:
Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
It's pretty specific about it only being one attack that's affected by the spell.
That is a solid argument. For anyone reading this in the future, the answers are that repelling blast works with true strike, and that not even the effects true strike apply to cleave.
I'd say when you cast True Strike and make a attack with a Cleave weapon that hit;
Repelling Blast You can push a Large or smaller creature up to 10 feet straight away from you.
Agonizing Blast does nothing since the damage roll already add your Charisma ability modifier.
Cleave You can make a melee attack roll with the weapon against a second creature within 5 feet of the first that is also within your reach. On a hit, the second creature takes the weapon’s damage, but don’t add your ability modifier to that damage unless that modifier is negative and you don't push it.
I'd say when you cast True Strike and make a attack with a Cleave weapon that hit;
Agonizing Blast does nothing since the damage roll already add your Charisma ability modifier.
There are obviously arguments against True Strike interacting with Agonising Blast, but I don’t think this is one of them. There is an explicit rule which stops you adding your Proficiency Bonus more than once; there is no rule against stacking an ability modifier.
I'd say when you cast True Strike and make a attack with a Cleave weapon that hit;
Agonizing Blast does nothing since the damage roll already add your Charisma ability modifier.
There are obviously arguments against True Strike interacting with Agonising Blast, but I don’t think this is one of them. There is an explicit rule which stops you adding your Proficiency Bonus more than once; there is no rule against stacking an ability modifier.
While not as explicit, D20 Testsspecify The Relevant Ability Modifier so i take that to mean Agonizing Blast isn't adding your Charisma ability modifier if being already added. It did if it was a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier instead of adding .
The Relevant Ability Modifier. This chapter and the rules glossary explain which ability modifiers to use for various D20 Tests.
The Attack Roll Abilities Table also indicate one ability, which True Strike uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity.
I don't think you can apply the same ability modifier twice without opening a can of Purple Worm.
Ability Modifier
The Attack Roll Abilities table shows which ability modifier to use for different types of attack rolls.
That makes sense, but it is possible to add something twice, and the word "can" means you have an option not to. You could interpret that to mean that this feature allows you to not add your charisma modifier at all, but I feel like this conclusion is subprime, as that ability isn't implicitly stated. Alternatively, agonizing blast does allow you to add your charisma modifier twice.
Add Modifiers. Add these modifiers to the number rolled on the d20:
The Relevant Ability Modifier. This chapter and the rules glossary explain which ability modifiers to use for various D20 Tests.
Your Proficiency Bonus If Relevant. Each creature has a Proficiency Bonus, a number added when making a D20 Test that uses something, such as a skill, in which the creature has proficiency. See “Proficiency” later in this chapter.
Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties. A class feature, a spell, or another rule might give a bonus or penalty to the die roll.
I believe this would fall under "Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties", as a class feature is giving a bonus to the roll.
The thing is, The Relevant Ability Modifier is specifically not a Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties though if you look at the way D20 Tests is laid out. Nor does the Invocation say it's a bonus equal to it.
Ability Modifier: Each ability has a modifier that you apply whenever you make a D20 Test with that ability (explained in “D20 Tests”). An ability modifier is derived from its score, as shown in the Ability Modifiers table.
The thing is, The Relevant Ability Modifier is specifically not a Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties though if you look at the way D20 Tests is laid out. Nor does the Invocation say it's a bonus equal to it.
Ability Modifier: Each ability has a modifier that you apply whenever you make a D20 Test with that ability (explained in “D20 Tests”). An ability modifier is derived from its score, as shown in the Ability Modifiers table.
Your argument is that, since it isn't a bonus, it isn't a bonus. That is amazing logic.
As for weapon mastery properties, any that involve making an attack with the weapon in question (which is almost all of them, including Cleave) would work in conjunction with True Strike. However, the secondary attack from Cleave wouldn't use your spellcasting ability, or incorporate the extra damage or other effects from things like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
I agree "almost all of them" is correct, because Nick might be the only one you can't benefit from unless you cast True Strike as part of the Attack Action thanks to for example Eldritch Knight's War Magic, College of Valor Bard's Extra Attack, or Bladesinging's Extra Attack.
Your argument is that, since it isn't a bonus, it isn't a bonus. That is amazing logic.
The amazing logic is behind your strawman argument
So explain your argument. You said, "The Relevant Ability Modifier is specifically not a Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties though if you look at the way D20 Tests is laid out." That is a straw man argument. What does it even mean? You are assuming that the damage from agonizing blast is "the relevant ability modifier" to conclude that it isn't a bonus.
Your argument is that, since it isn't a bonus, it isn't a bonus. That is amazing logic.
The amazing logic is behind your strawman argument
So explain your argument. You said, "The Relevant Ability Modifier is specifically not a Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties though if you look at the way D20 Tests is laid out." That is a straw man argument. What does it even mean? You are assuming that the damage from agonizing blast is "the relevant ability modifier" to conclude that it isn't a bonus.
The strawmen argument you made is claiming ''Your argument is that, since it isn't a bonus, it isn't a bonus.'' when i didn't made that argument.
True Strike uses your spellcasting ability for attack and damage roll, which for Warlock is Charisma being The Relevant Ability Modifier.
When you look at D20 Tests Ability Modifer vs Cistumstantial Bonuses are different modifiers.
Add Modifiers. Add these modifiers to the number rolled on the d20:
The Relevant Ability Modifier. This chapter and the rules glossary explain which ability modifiers to use for various D20 Tests.
Your Proficiency Bonus If Relevant. Each creature has a Proficiency Bonus, a number added when making a D20 Test that uses something, such as a skill, in which the creature has proficiency. See “Proficiency” later in this chapter.
Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties. A class feature, a spell, or another rule might give a bonus or penalty to the die roll.
Given the large argument about whether true strike works with agonizing blast, I wondered what people think about repelling blast. So, does repelling blast work with true strike given it requires a cantrip that does damage via an attack roll? [edit: you only need to have a cantrip that fulfills that and the cantrip for the invocation just needs an attack roll] eldritch invocations
Additionally I also had the thought of using both agonizing blast and repelling blast with the cleave weapon mastery. Would that work? weapon masteries
The situation with Repelling Blast is a lot more clear. What it actually says is "one of your known Warlock cantrips that requires an attack roll". That specific wording (probably accidentally, to be honest) sidesteps the question of whether the cantrip actually does damage, which is what the argument is about with Agonizing Blast. True Strike definitely requires an attack roll, regardless of whether it's the cantrip dealing damage or not, so it's eligible for Repelling Blast.
As for weapon mastery properties, any that involve making an attack with the weapon in question (which is almost all of them, including Cleave) would work in conjunction with True Strike. However, the secondary attack from Cleave wouldn't use your spellcasting ability, or incorporate the extra damage or other effects from things like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
pronouns: he/she/they
Okay, but why.
Because all that stuff is coming from the attack's association with True Strike, which says:
Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
It's pretty specific about it only being one attack that's affected by the spell.
pronouns: he/she/they
That is a solid argument. For anyone reading this in the future, the answers are that repelling blast works with true strike, and that not even the effects true strike apply to cleave.
I'd say when you cast True Strike and make a attack with a Cleave weapon that hit;
Repelling Blast You can push a Large or smaller creature up to 10 feet straight away from you.
Agonizing Blast does nothing since the damage roll already add your Charisma ability modifier.
Cleave You can make a melee attack roll with the weapon against a second creature within 5 feet of the first that is also within your reach. On a hit, the second creature takes the weapon’s damage, but don’t add your ability modifier to that damage unless that modifier is negative and you don't push it.
There are obviously arguments against True Strike interacting with Agonising Blast, but I don’t think this is one of them. There is an explicit rule which stops you adding your Proficiency Bonus more than once; there is no rule against stacking an ability modifier.
While not as explicit, D20 Tests specify The Relevant Ability Modifier so i take that to mean Agonizing Blast isn't adding your Charisma ability modifier if being already added. It did if it was a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier instead of adding .
The Attack Roll Abilities Table also indicate one ability, which True Strike uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity.
I don't think you can apply the same ability modifier twice without opening a can of Purple Worm.
Quoting myself replying to you in this thread:
The thing is, The Relevant Ability Modifier is specifically not a Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties though if you look at the way D20 Tests is laid out. Nor does the Invocation say it's a bonus equal to it.
Your argument is that, since it isn't a bonus, it isn't a bonus. That is amazing logic.
The amazing logic is behind your strawman argument
Regarding stacking the same modifier several times when damaging, I created this thread some days ago: Agonizing Blast + Radiant Soul - Rules & Game Mechanics (in some replies Agonizing Blast is mentioned)
I also think the rules allow it (generally speaking!)
I agree "almost all of them" is correct, because Nick might be the only one you can't benefit from unless you cast True Strike as part of the Attack Action thanks to for example Eldritch Knight's War Magic, College of Valor Bard's Extra Attack, or Bladesinging's Extra Attack.
So explain your argument. You said, "The Relevant Ability Modifier is specifically not a Circumstantial Bonuses and Penalties though if you look at the way D20 Tests is laid out." That is a straw man argument. What does it even mean? You are assuming that the damage from agonizing blast is "the relevant ability modifier" to conclude that it isn't a bonus.
The strawmen argument you made is claiming ''Your argument is that, since it isn't a bonus, it isn't a bonus.'' when i didn't made that argument.
True Strike uses your spellcasting ability for attack and damage roll, which for Warlock is Charisma being The Relevant Ability Modifier.
When you look at D20 Tests Ability Modifer vs Cistumstantial Bonuses are different modifiers.
Only fools and dead men don't change their minds, nothing seems to prevent adding your ability modifier multiple times on a damage roll.