How essential are Flight and Darkvision (namely for a melee)?
Haven't played much at upper level yet. My main concern is being able to access most enemies in combat. How serious of a concern is that? Not sure how much I can / should rely on magical items or a caster's spell to help me with this? But then it makes me feel a bit constricted in species choices.
For reference, the class in mind is Monk, which has more mobility options than most earthbound characters, which maybe makes flight less needed? But I also want to see stuff.
It depends a lot on your GM and the rest of the party, but generally they're not.
In practice, if you don't have flying, you'll still have something to do, especially since your DM knows you don't have flight and raged capability, and you'll likely have the option of flight items or flight spells from the rest of your party if you need it.
(Most classes have some kind of ranged attack options as well, but Monks really don't.)
As for Darkvision, unless you're the only one in the party without it, there'll be plenty of reason for your party to have light sources. And even if you are the only one, there's still plenty of reason. You can carry one yourself if need be. Situations where the party will need to be operating without light are rare.
I agree they’re not strictly necessary. In ‘24, monks can use short bows and light crossbows. Only 1shot per round and not with martial arts, so that’s a big drop in their usual attacks, but still, you won’t be useless. And of course, you can always just run up a wall and punch the bad guy before you run back down.
As for darkvision, as jl8e said, I’ve rarely found that to be an issue.
But I think my bigger piece of advice would be not to worry about stuff like this at all. Just pick a class and species you think will be fun. No matter what you go with, sometimes, you won’t have a lot to do; sometimes you’ll have just the right stuff and be the star.
Okay good to know. Sounds like there are enough tools & strategies to stay close enough to the action.
One thing I’m looking for in a species for a Monk build is no heavy use of Bonus Action or Reaction, since Monks have good uses for those every turn. So Darkvision is passive, and many species’ flight option only requires a BA to start, which seems appropriate.
But there are other options that seem more useful regularly for a Monk. Think Human or Warforged or Goliath look attractive.
Some DMs won't even allow flying PCs. And mink's tend to be pretty quick on their feet so you should be fine without flight. Also, monks can throw javelins in 2014 and have better options in 2024. Nightvision is useful for a scout or if the whole party has it...otherwise, someone is lighting a torch or lantern or casting light anyway. If i know, a campaign is mostly underground, I do try and get nightvision. If you are going shadow monk, you'll want night vision (since you'll be sticking to dim light pretty often).
High-level monks generally have silly movement options and take basically no damage from falling
Figuring out how to get to flying opponents when you can't actually fly is half the fun
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
High-level monks generally have silly movement options and take basically no damage from falling
Figuring out how to get to flying opponents when you can't actually fly is half the fun
This. My Monk once had the Wizard of the party use Dimension Door to teleport us 500' into the air so that my Monk could Stunning Strike an Adult Silver Dragon out of the air with a readied action. Felt like epic teamwork.
High-level monks generally have silly movement options and take basically no damage from falling
Figuring out how to get to flying opponents when you can't actually fly is half the fun
This. My Monk once had the Wizard of the party use Dimension Door to teleport us 500' into the air so that my Monk could Stunning Strike an Adult Silver Dragon out of the air with a readied action. Felt like epic teamwork.
Good stuff. If the Monk could somehow get up there and an action off without Reaction, it could use its slow fall. So yeah, lots of good options it seems between that, it’s speed options, climb ability, etc, should be enough there to get in the action.
Related: last night fought my first Beholder (with a level 14 archer), which was flying about 20-ft up. Our rogue was able to jump on and do good damage half riding the thing. So it worked out.
Don't play with DMs that don't want you to have fun.
Limiting player options is not synonymous with "don't want you to have fun." Personally, I would never allow a player at my table who though any decision I made that limited player options was bad.
I totally get the challenge of having to account for flying as a DM. Because the game offers so much I don't feel entitled to it.
Conversely, if you have a world where various abilities are a thing, ideally a game based there should have ways to account for that. Both to deal when you players have it, and to make sure encounters are still doable or engageable for characters with different abilities.
Of the 2 abilities flight is the one to worry over least. Yes for some builds ( archer ranger) it can be quite useful, but only if you’re going to be in outdoor settings most of the time. Indoors it’s mostly wasted (and having said that I’m sure someone will reply back to show some indoor situation where it is) please note the word mostly. Darkvision is not essential either so if you want a species without it go for it and don’t worry about it. On the other hand, it can be quite useful. Currently I’m in a party that has 5 members with Darkvision and one without. We get around the problems that are possible with the dancing lights cantrips rather than torches and /or light spells etc. ( use the combined version with a dim glowing figure moving 60’ ahead of the party near the ceilings - the dark vision folks have a zone of bright light moving ahead of them while the normal sighted have enough light to see by without stumbling around and the party stays in relative shadow behind the light(of course foes 120’ away are in shadow too but they would be hidden in darkness anyway))
I'm currently playing a monk with 24 rules, using a tabaxi, which gives me a climbing speed, and I've never needed a flight to reach the thing I needed to punch. As for darkvision, you can really just light a torch, it doesn't really make a big difference.
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DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes and no, I and the other main DM in my group are both fairly tactical. In a darkened cave/dungeon lights can be seen from extreme distances giving up any efforts at surprise unless you do something like I described. The ghostly semblance of the 4 dancing lights together has a decent chance to be taken as a ghost and scare off low level threats that don’t want to deal, it also provides the normal visioned one with enough light to maneuver when out of combat while providing 10 feet of Bridget light and at least 10 feet of dim light to those with darkvision 60-120’ in advance of the party while leaving the party in darkness for any foes. It’s not a perfect solutions but it’s good enough for even low level parties to get an edge on foes before the foes see them.
I'm currently playing a monk with 24 rules, using a tabaxi, which gives me a climbing speed, and I've never needed a flight to reach the thing I needed to punch. As for darkvision, you can really just light a torch, it doesn't really make a big difference.
I agree they’re not strictly necessary. In ‘24, monks can use short bows and light crossbows. Only 1shot per round and not with martial arts, so that’s a big drop in their usual attacks, but still, you won’t be useless. And of course, you can always just run up a wall and punch the bad guy before you run back down.
As for darkvision, as jl8e said, I’ve rarely found that to be an issue.
But I think my bigger piece of advice would be not to worry about stuff like this at all. Just pick a class and species you think will be fun. No matter what you go with, sometimes, you won’t have a lot to do; sometimes you’ll have just the right stuff and be the star.
Also Warrior of Shadows, and warrior of Elements both get a version of flight.
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Newish to D&D. Wondering:
How essential are Flight and Darkvision (namely for a melee)?
Haven't played much at upper level yet. My main concern is being able to access most enemies in combat. How serious of a concern is that? Not sure how much I can / should rely on magical items or a caster's spell to help me with this? But then it makes me feel a bit constricted in species choices.
For reference, the class in mind is Monk, which has more mobility options than most earthbound characters, which maybe makes flight less needed? But I also want to see stuff.
Thx!
It depends a lot on your GM and the rest of the party, but generally they're not.
In practice, if you don't have flying, you'll still have something to do, especially since your DM knows you don't have flight and raged capability, and you'll likely have the option of flight items or flight spells from the rest of your party if you need it.
(Most classes have some kind of ranged attack options as well, but Monks really don't.)
As for Darkvision, unless you're the only one in the party without it, there'll be plenty of reason for your party to have light sources. And even if you are the only one, there's still plenty of reason. You can carry one yourself if need be. Situations where the party will need to be operating without light are rare.
I agree they’re not strictly necessary. In ‘24, monks can use short bows and light crossbows. Only 1shot per round and not with martial arts, so that’s a big drop in their usual attacks, but still, you won’t be useless. And of course, you can always just run up a wall and punch the bad guy before you run back down.
As for darkvision, as jl8e said, I’ve rarely found that to be an issue.
But I think my bigger piece of advice would be not to worry about stuff like this at all. Just pick a class and species you think will be fun. No matter what you go with, sometimes, you won’t have a lot to do; sometimes you’ll have just the right stuff and be the star.
Okay good to know. Sounds like there are enough tools & strategies to stay close enough to the action.
One thing I’m looking for in a species for a Monk build is no heavy use of Bonus Action or Reaction, since Monks have good uses for those every turn. So Darkvision is passive, and many species’ flight option only requires a BA to start, which seems appropriate.
But there are other options that seem more useful regularly for a Monk. Think Human or Warforged or Goliath look attractive.
Some DMs won't even allow flying PCs. And mink's tend to be pretty quick on their feet so you should be fine without flight. Also, monks can throw javelins in 2014 and have better options in 2024. Nightvision is useful for a scout or if the whole party has it...otherwise, someone is lighting a torch or lantern or casting light anyway. If i know, a campaign is mostly underground, I do try and get nightvision. If you are going shadow monk, you'll want night vision (since you'll be sticking to dim light pretty often).
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
Don't play with DMs that don't want you to have fun.
pronouns: he/she/they
High-level monks generally have silly movement options and take basically no damage from falling
Figuring out how to get to flying opponents when you can't actually fly is half the fun
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This. My Monk once had the Wizard of the party use Dimension Door to teleport us 500' into the air so that my Monk could Stunning Strike an Adult Silver Dragon out of the air with a readied action. Felt like epic teamwork.
Good stuff. If the Monk could somehow get up there and an action off without Reaction, it could use its slow fall. So yeah, lots of good options it seems between that, it’s speed options, climb ability, etc, should be enough there to get in the action.
Related: last night fought my first Beholder (with a level 14 archer), which was flying about 20-ft up. Our rogue was able to jump on and do good damage half riding the thing. So it worked out.
Limiting player options is not synonymous with "don't want you to have fun." Personally, I would never allow a player at my table who though any decision I made that limited player options was bad.
I totally get the challenge of having to account for flying as a DM. Because the game offers so much I don't feel entitled to it.
Conversely, if you have a world where various abilities are a thing, ideally a game based there should have ways to account for that. Both to deal when you players have it, and to make sure encounters are still doable or engageable for characters with different abilities.
Of the 2 abilities flight is the one to worry over least. Yes for some builds ( archer ranger) it can be quite useful, but only if you’re going to be in outdoor settings most of the time. Indoors it’s mostly wasted (and having said that I’m sure someone will reply back to show some indoor situation where it is) please note the word mostly. Darkvision is not essential either so if you want a species without it go for it and don’t worry about it. On the other hand, it can be quite useful. Currently I’m in a party that has 5 members with Darkvision and one without. We get around the problems that are possible with the dancing lights cantrips rather than torches and /or light spells etc. ( use the combined version with a dim glowing figure moving 60’ ahead of the party near the ceilings - the dark vision folks have a zone of bright light moving ahead of them while the normal sighted have enough light to see by without stumbling around and the party stays in relative shadow behind the light(of course foes 120’ away are in shadow too but they would be hidden in darkness anyway))
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I'm currently playing a monk with 24 rules, using a tabaxi, which gives me a climbing speed, and I've never needed a flight to reach the thing I needed to punch. As for darkvision, you can really just light a torch, it doesn't really make a big difference.
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes and no, I and the other main DM in my group are both fairly tactical. In a darkened cave/dungeon lights can be seen from extreme distances giving up any efforts at surprise unless you do something like I described. The ghostly semblance of the 4 dancing lights together has a decent chance to be taken as a ghost and scare off low level threats that don’t want to deal, it also provides the normal visioned one with enough light to maneuver when out of combat while providing 10 feet of Bridget light and at least 10 feet of dim light to those with darkvision 60-120’ in advance of the party while leaving the party in darkness for any foes. It’s not a perfect solutions but it’s good enough for even low level parties to get an edge on foes before the foes see them.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Dhampir are good for climbing too.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
Also Warrior of Shadows, and warrior of Elements both get a version of flight.