So which skills are actually consequential in your experience?
About 7 months into my first D&D campaign. Just joined a second. About to wrap one and create a new character, and I'm finding myself really wondering which skills I actually want to be able to pass? I want to be more impactful outside of combat, but I don't necessarily find most skills impactful?
I know it's game & DM dependent which skills are used and how. But several skill checks seem mostly about providing information and/or flavor (History, Religion, Arcana, etc.). I enjoy both, but in many ways I find the flavor comes out anyway. And if there is information we need, it doesn't seem it can be locked behind a skill check forever, or the story won't proceed. I find the DM wants to share, and we want to know. So investing in info skills seems kind of moot?
Similarly, stealthing past enemies entirely only seems fun to a point. Like eventually I do want to fight something. I am not trying to play a Leroy Jenkins, but to me trying to avoid most fights seems like it skips a major reason to play, if that makes sense. Haven't had any dungeon crawls yet, though, so the only use of Stealth I've seen is for some individual stuff from our Rogue, which was cool to watch.
Seems like Perception is king, and everything else is negotiable. Especially since part of the game is embracing failure, which I like. I find myself secretly wanting to fail some checks just so we can get into a scrap, lol!
Well, persuasion and deception are almost always good to have. I'd say your point about info spells isn't always correct. In an open world game it is very possible to miss information and still make it to your destination, albeit usually with consequences.
I know it's game & DM dependent which skills are used and how. But several skill checks seem mostly about providing information and/or flavor (History, Religion, Arcana, etc.). I enjoy both, but in many ways I find the flavor comes out anyway. And if there is information we need, it doesn't seem it can be locked behind a skill check forever, or the story won't proceed. I find the DM wants to share, and we want to know. So investing in info skills seems kind of moot?
If you're only viewing skills as "what can I win if I succeed on the the check", then sure, knowledge skills have little value
I view skills as part of the process of defining who my character is. A rogue with Arcana proficiency is going in a very different direction than one with History, or Medicine. Whether the skill becomes "useful" during the campaign isn't really the point
Also, just as you noted that DMs will find ways to get you the information you need to advance the plot, my experience is also that they find ways to make the skills you choose come into play, so they do feel "useful"
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Well, persuasion and deception are almost always good to have. I'd say your point about info spells isn't always correct. In an open world game it is very possible to miss information and still make it to your destination, albeit usually with consequences.
Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at: either you will get there eventually, or the DM will find a way to get you what we need to proceed. Obviously it makes sense to build for success, but can't do that in all skill areas. I guess the hope is there is some payoff for succeeding checks.
Social skills like Persuasion or Deception certainly seem important, even on low-Charisma characters. Group skill checks are a thing, which is cool. And the DM can call for a check on anyone talking I've learned, not just our party "face." The above point seems to hold here too (can't freeze the story for failed checks), but maybe the results are more interesting for the social stuff because they're based on other persons taking action around you.
Well, persuasion and deception are almost always good to have. I'd say your point about info spells isn't always correct. In an open world game it is very possible to miss information and still make it to your destination, albeit usually with consequences.
Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at: either you will get there eventually, or the DM will find a way to get you what we need to proceed. Obviously it makes sense to build for success, but can't do that in all skill areas. I guess the hope is there is some payoff for succeeding checks.
Social skills like Persuasion or Deception certainly seem important, even on low-Charisma characters. Group skill checks are a thing, which is cool. And the DM can call for a check on anyone talking I've learned, not just our party "face." The above point seems to hold here too (can't freeze the story for failed checks), but maybe the results are more interesting for the social stuff because they're based on other persons taking action around you.
I guess I wasn't being clear. I meant that you can progress the story in multiple ways in an open world game. The important detail is not all are equal. Maybe you can find out that same information, but you need to break into a noble's vault to do so, meaning they now hate you because you couldn't succeed on that info check.
Well, persuasion and deception are almost always good to have. I'd say your point about info spells isn't always correct. In an open world game it is very possible to miss information and still make it to your destination, albeit usually with consequences.
Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at: either you will get there eventually, or the DM will find a way to get you what we need to proceed. Obviously it makes sense to build for success, but can't do that in all skill areas. I guess the hope is there is some payoff for succeeding checks.
Social skills like Persuasion or Deception certainly seem important, even on low-Charisma characters. Group skill checks are a thing, which is cool. And the DM can call for a check on anyone talking I've learned, not just our party "face." The above point seems to hold here too (can't freeze the story for failed checks), but maybe the results are more interesting for the social stuff because they're based on other persons taking action around you.
I guess I wasn't being clear. I meant that you can progress the story in multiple ways in an open world game. The important detail is not all are equal. Maybe you can find out that same information, but you need to break into a noble's vault to do so, meaning they now hate you because you couldn't succeed on that info check.
I think you were clear. I thought I was agreeing with you - you can progress in many ways. But the hope is the ways are different, that there is some payoff to succeeding (side plot, new friend, etc.). I guess I have seen that a bit more with social skills than knowledge ones?
Well, persuasion and deception are almost always good to have. I'd say your point about info spells isn't always correct. In an open world game it is very possible to miss information and still make it to your destination, albeit usually with consequences.
Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at: either you will get there eventually, or the DM will find a way to get you what we need to proceed. Obviously it makes sense to build for success, but can't do that in all skill areas. I guess the hope is there is some payoff for succeeding checks.
Social skills like Persuasion or Deception certainly seem important, even on low-Charisma characters. Group skill checks are a thing, which is cool. And the DM can call for a check on anyone talking I've learned, not just our party "face." The above point seems to hold here too (can't freeze the story for failed checks), but maybe the results are more interesting for the social stuff because they're based on other persons taking action around you.
I guess I wasn't being clear. I meant that you can progress the story in multiple ways in an open world game. The important detail is not all are equal. Maybe you can find out that same information, but you need to break into a noble's vault to do so, meaning they now hate you because you couldn't succeed on that info check.
I think you were clear. I thought I was agreeing with you - you can progress in many ways. But the hope is the ways are different, that there is some payoff to succeeding (side plot, new friend, etc.). I guess I have seen that a bit more with social skills than knowledge ones?
(sorry, I was the one misunderstanding)
I can think of at least one situation where the party I DM could've gotten useful knowledge with a history check. (they didn't even make one, lol)
You need to a special item and the DM will find a way for you to know it is in a vault and where the vault is.
Investigating might help you learn who owns the vault and who is guarding it. Deception on the guards or owner might help you get into the building. Or stealth can help you break into the owner's home and investigation can help you find their keys or some incriminating evidence that, with an intimidation check, could help convince the owner to give you keys.
Once in the building and past the guards you've got traps to deal with. Perception and/or investigation to find the traps, acrobatics (pressure plates/trip wires), thieves' tools for disarming, etc.
History might help you realise who made the vault and they might have "signature traps" so when dealing with those traps you might get an advantage on rolls. Or you might learn they always have a failsafe switch somewhere to disable the traps - something you'd never learn from the owner. So once inside you might know where to search to find that switch (more checks to do so - but success means the traps are disabled!).
Persuasion on contacts within nobility and the wealthy might find a way to buy the item you need. Or to arrange viewings.
Disguise Self spell and Performance checks could convince the guards to just let you in.
And so on, and so on.
Or, with no checks you could walk in with fighting and rely on saving throws against the deadly traps.
Sometimes the skills aren't "to advance plot" they're just to give you different (often better) options to reach that goal.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
All good examples. Just have yet to face a trap or have a chance to use stealth as a team.
One time we tried to infiltrate an enemy camp with disguises/spells and bluffing, but it became clear quickly those wouldn’t hold. We were able to release some hostages early, which was cool. Was fun to try, but combat was inevitable. And I guess that’s more of an example of spells and having the right gear. Only skill used there was Deception really.
I think the OP said it in post 1. It’s going to be campaign dependent. Perception will generally be useful, yes also investigate. But beyond that if you’ve got a political intrigue campaign, you might get more mileage from insight and along with deception and persuasion. If you’re in a dungeon crawl, you might not get much use from deception or persuasion at all.
Then there’s stuff like survival, which is pretty important to have 1 person who has it, but a second one, probably not as important, except to give advantage to the person with the better roll.
So I’d agree with the poster who said just take skills to fit your character, and they’ll come up when they come up.
A lot of skills are PC, campaign and DM dependant. If your out in the wilderness then things like nature and survival may be very mportant. Depending on DM this might even include cooking. Then there are skills like herbalism, alchemy and poisoner that lets you make useful things. Skills like smithing, leather working, woodworking, jeweler, etc are harder unless you have a talk with the DM about how they can be used in the campaign ( the DM tells the party they find 5 attractive stones as part of the treasure, the jeweler makes their roll and the DM tells you what types and what values.)
It depends both on the player and the DM, at least when I DM I always plan for multiple possible solutions to a problem. So it is never required to have any particular skill. The players can if they want, just bash their way through everything eventually. Or they can come up with ways they could use whatever skills they happen to be good at to overcome the challenge.
For instance, my party needed to retrieve an item from a secure city that was closed to all non-residents of that city, and residents of the city need official passes to be allowed in or out. However, there was a town just outside the walls that was full of smugglers, traders, criminals, etc... some of which knew of secret passages into the city. So I had considered all these various approaches to getting in:
Use Insight + Deception/Persuasion to identify criminal elements and persuade them to get the party inside
Use Survival + History/Investigation to try to find a hidden route inside themselves
Use Athletics + Intimidation + Stealth to kidnap one of the City residents off the streets and steal their pass & clothes to bluff their way inside
Use Investigation/Perception + Insight + Persuasion/Intimidation to find a City resident who has been smuggled out of the city and is trying to flee and convince them to tell them about the route the smugglers used.
Use Arcana + Flight (Or Climbing Kit +Athletics) + Stealth abilities to figure out a way to by-pass the magical shield over the city walls.
Each one have different difficulties and consequences for failure.
In a different game, my players went to the Nine Hells to free one of the character's mothers from an infernal contract she had made with a devil. They were told which city in the Nine Hells stores the contract as well as which Devil the contract was made with. To ensure they could progress I didn't require a skill check (just RP) to figure out both what building the contracts were stored in and where the Devil in question was likely to be found, but beyond that they had to use information skill checks to figure out how hard to contract was to steal, as well as potentially notice there was a flaw in the wording of the contract allowing them to try to dispute it in court, or find a way to break into the devil's headquarters. They opted for court, so we had an extensive skill challenge to determine whether that was successful or not involving all kinds of skills from Stealth to spy on the opposition, to History for researching precedents, to Persuasion to recruit interns to help prepare the case, to Survival to follow the judge and see if they can be bribed / are being bribed by their opponents, etc...
Or for an even simpler example, my party needed to travel from a major trading city to an isolationist city on the other side of some mountains. Again lots of ways to use different skills to solve it. The Ranger went to the stables and used Animal Handling to pick out good mules, the Wizard used Investigation to find a map maker with an accurate map of the mountains and know trails, the Bard used Persuasion to ask around the tavern for rumours/news from anyone who had recently crossed the mountains. The Warlock and Rogue used Intimidation to get a good deal on travel supplies.
I feel like perception, insight, and survival, are all really good ones. I always reccomend the usage of perception as much as you can. You might as well try to see if you can find any hidden details if there are any. Insight is great, because you can tell if someone is lying or hiding some emotion during an encounter. And survival can be used for finding great loot when exploring.
Medicine is also pretty underrated, because there are certain checks against certain monsters that use medicine, and it can also be used to see if something is poisonous or how something died.
And of course for regular NPC interaction, deception and persuasion are great to have too.
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"Uh, I have Illusory Script. I think I can read that."
A lot of folks seem to misunderstand perception, especially passive perception.its recognizing that something is “off” you don’t really know what but it’s that “ spideysense” tingling in your mind. Active perception grades into passive nvestigation as you stop and look around trying to determine what off your “spideysense” passive investigation is you looking closely at everything around you trying to find that “purloined letter” without disturbing things. Active investigation is when you stop standing still looking around and start moving and checking things out. As such I generally keep the highest passive perception handy and compare DCs to find/spot/recognize to that value. If the DC is lower then they realize something is off - but not what. Then they get one active perception check to recognize it then a second passive investigation comparison if needed before going to active investigation checks. This is also why perception checks are generally wisdom checks not intelligence and investigation checks are general intelligence not wisdom. Properly you need both, one alone won’t cut it. Tools are a different story - first of they are typically not full sets, rather they are a small, fairly light weight subset for emergency/field use if away from a stocked shop. So right away the DCs should be a point or two higher just for the restricted tool set. Then they are very game dependant. Take woodcarvers tools among the things it allows you to craft are bows and arrows. If you play at a table where bows never break and your supply of arrows is effectively infinite then this skill is useless. On the other hand if you play at a table that uses encumbrance and the arrow recovery rules then you may well need the skill to keep yourself and the party in bows and arrows. Many of the skills are functional when played with a full rule set but nonfunctional as things like encumbrance, ration tracking, etc are discarded for “ease of play”.
I think it hinges on the GM. Many GM's don't really like it when you dodge their carefully planned encounters.
But with a good GM - or a skill-amenable GM at least - playing a (skill focussed) bard can be absolutely awesome. I've done so, and I learned to ask the other players in advance whether we actually wanted to resolve things peacefully, or if we were really more interested in creating a favorable starting position for combat.
All skills are cool and useful - but not evenly so.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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So which skills are actually consequential in your experience?
About 7 months into my first D&D campaign. Just joined a second. About to wrap one and create a new character, and I'm finding myself really wondering which skills I actually want to be able to pass? I want to be more impactful outside of combat, but I don't necessarily find most skills impactful?
I know it's game & DM dependent which skills are used and how. But several skill checks seem mostly about providing information and/or flavor (History, Religion, Arcana, etc.). I enjoy both, but in many ways I find the flavor comes out anyway. And if there is information we need, it doesn't seem it can be locked behind a skill check forever, or the story won't proceed. I find the DM wants to share, and we want to know. So investing in info skills seems kind of moot?
Similarly, stealthing past enemies entirely only seems fun to a point. Like eventually I do want to fight something. I am not trying to play a Leroy Jenkins, but to me trying to avoid most fights seems like it skips a major reason to play, if that makes sense. Haven't had any dungeon crawls yet, though, so the only use of Stealth I've seen is for some individual stuff from our Rogue, which was cool to watch.
Seems like Perception is king, and everything else is negotiable. Especially since part of the game is embracing failure, which I like. I find myself secretly wanting to fail some checks just so we can get into a scrap, lol!
Anyhow, still learning. Thoughts?
Well, persuasion and deception are almost always good to have. I'd say your point about info spells isn't always correct. In an open world game it is very possible to miss information and still make it to your destination, albeit usually with consequences.
If you're only viewing skills as "what can I win if I succeed on the the check", then sure, knowledge skills have little value
I view skills as part of the process of defining who my character is. A rogue with Arcana proficiency is going in a very different direction than one with History, or Medicine. Whether the skill becomes "useful" during the campaign isn't really the point
Also, just as you noted that DMs will find ways to get you the information you need to advance the plot, my experience is also that they find ways to make the skills you choose come into play, so they do feel "useful"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at: either you will get there eventually, or the DM will find a way to get you what we need to proceed. Obviously it makes sense to build for success, but can't do that in all skill areas. I guess the hope is there is some payoff for succeeding checks.
Social skills like Persuasion or Deception certainly seem important, even on low-Charisma characters. Group skill checks are a thing, which is cool. And the DM can call for a check on anyone talking I've learned, not just our party "face." The above point seems to hold here too (can't freeze the story for failed checks), but maybe the results are more interesting for the social stuff because they're based on other persons taking action around you.
I guess I wasn't being clear. I meant that you can progress the story in multiple ways in an open world game. The important detail is not all are equal. Maybe you can find out that same information, but you need to break into a noble's vault to do so, meaning they now hate you because you couldn't succeed on that info check.
I think you were clear. I thought I was agreeing with you - you can progress in many ways. But the hope is the ways are different, that there is some payoff to succeeding (side plot, new friend, etc.). I guess I have seen that a bit more with social skills than knowledge ones?
(sorry, I was the one misunderstanding)
I can think of at least one situation where the party I DM could've gotten useful knowledge with a history check. (they didn't even make one, lol)
True. I guess as the player, we don't know what we don't know, when we fail a check.
You need to a special item and the DM will find a way for you to know it is in a vault and where the vault is.
Investigating might help you learn who owns the vault and who is guarding it. Deception on the guards or owner might help you get into the building. Or stealth can help you break into the owner's home and investigation can help you find their keys or some incriminating evidence that, with an intimidation check, could help convince the owner to give you keys.
Once in the building and past the guards you've got traps to deal with. Perception and/or investigation to find the traps, acrobatics (pressure plates/trip wires), thieves' tools for disarming, etc.
History might help you realise who made the vault and they might have "signature traps" so when dealing with those traps you might get an advantage on rolls. Or you might learn they always have a failsafe switch somewhere to disable the traps - something you'd never learn from the owner. So once inside you might know where to search to find that switch (more checks to do so - but success means the traps are disabled!).
Persuasion on contacts within nobility and the wealthy might find a way to buy the item you need. Or to arrange viewings.
Disguise Self spell and Performance checks could convince the guards to just let you in.
And so on, and so on.
Or, with no checks you could walk in with fighting and rely on saving throws against the deadly traps.
Sometimes the skills aren't "to advance plot" they're just to give you different (often better) options to reach that goal.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
All good examples. Just have yet to face a trap or have a chance to use stealth as a team.
One time we tried to infiltrate an enemy camp with disguises/spells and bluffing, but it became clear quickly those wouldn’t hold. We were able to release some hostages early, which was cool. Was fun to try, but combat was inevitable. And I guess that’s more of an example of spells and having the right gear. Only skill used there was Deception really.
I think the OP said it in post 1. It’s going to be campaign dependent. Perception will generally be useful, yes also investigate.
But beyond that if you’ve got a political intrigue campaign, you might get more mileage from insight and along with deception and persuasion. If you’re in a dungeon crawl, you might not get much use from deception or persuasion at all.
Then there’s stuff like survival, which is pretty important to have 1 person who has it, but a second one, probably not as important, except to give advantage to the person with the better roll.
So I’d agree with the poster who said just take skills to fit your character, and they’ll come up when they come up.
A lot of skills are PC, campaign and DM dependant. If your out in the wilderness then things like nature and survival may be very mportant. Depending on DM this might even include cooking. Then there are skills like herbalism, alchemy and poisoner that lets you make useful things. Skills like smithing, leather working, woodworking, jeweler, etc are harder unless you have a talk with the DM about how they can be used in the campaign ( the DM tells the party they find 5 attractive stones as part of the treasure, the jeweler makes their roll and the DM tells you what types and what values.)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It depends both on the player and the DM, at least when I DM I always plan for multiple possible solutions to a problem. So it is never required to have any particular skill. The players can if they want, just bash their way through everything eventually. Or they can come up with ways they could use whatever skills they happen to be good at to overcome the challenge.
For instance, my party needed to retrieve an item from a secure city that was closed to all non-residents of that city, and residents of the city need official passes to be allowed in or out. However, there was a town just outside the walls that was full of smugglers, traders, criminals, etc... some of which knew of secret passages into the city. So I had considered all these various approaches to getting in:
Each one have different difficulties and consequences for failure.
In a different game, my players went to the Nine Hells to free one of the character's mothers from an infernal contract she had made with a devil. They were told which city in the Nine Hells stores the contract as well as which Devil the contract was made with. To ensure they could progress I didn't require a skill check (just RP) to figure out both what building the contracts were stored in and where the Devil in question was likely to be found, but beyond that they had to use information skill checks to figure out how hard to contract was to steal, as well as potentially notice there was a flaw in the wording of the contract allowing them to try to dispute it in court, or find a way to break into the devil's headquarters. They opted for court, so we had an extensive skill challenge to determine whether that was successful or not involving all kinds of skills from Stealth to spy on the opposition, to History for researching precedents, to Persuasion to recruit interns to help prepare the case, to Survival to follow the judge and see if they can be bribed / are being bribed by their opponents, etc...
Or for an even simpler example, my party needed to travel from a major trading city to an isolationist city on the other side of some mountains. Again lots of ways to use different skills to solve it. The Ranger went to the stables and used Animal Handling to pick out good mules, the Wizard used Investigation to find a map maker with an accurate map of the mountains and know trails, the Bard used Persuasion to ask around the tavern for rumours/news from anyone who had recently crossed the mountains. The Warlock and Rogue used Intimidation to get a good deal on travel supplies.
I feel like perception, insight, and survival, are all really good ones. I always reccomend the usage of perception as much as you can. You might as well try to see if you can find any hidden details if there are any. Insight is great, because you can tell if someone is lying or hiding some emotion during an encounter. And survival can be used for finding great loot when exploring.
Medicine is also pretty underrated, because there are certain checks against certain monsters that use medicine, and it can also be used to see if something is poisonous or how something died.
And of course for regular NPC interaction, deception and persuasion are great to have too.
"Uh, I have Illusory Script. I think I can read that."
A lot of folks seem to misunderstand perception, especially passive perception.its recognizing that something is “off” you don’t really know what but it’s that “ spideysense” tingling in your mind. Active perception grades into passive nvestigation as you stop and look around trying to determine what off your “spideysense” passive investigation is you looking closely at everything around you trying to find that “purloined letter” without disturbing things. Active investigation is when you stop standing still looking around and start moving and checking things out. As such I generally keep the highest passive perception handy and compare DCs to find/spot/recognize to that value. If the DC is lower then they realize something is off - but not what. Then they get one active perception check to recognize it then a second passive investigation comparison if needed before going to active investigation checks. This is also why perception checks are generally wisdom checks not intelligence and investigation checks are general intelligence not wisdom. Properly you need both, one alone won’t cut it.
Tools are a different story - first of they are typically not full sets, rather they are a small, fairly light weight subset for emergency/field use if away from a stocked shop. So right away the DCs should be a point or two higher just for the restricted tool set. Then they are very game dependant. Take woodcarvers tools among the things it allows you to craft are bows and arrows. If you play at a table where bows never break and your supply of arrows is effectively infinite then this skill is useless. On the other hand if you play at a table that uses encumbrance and the arrow recovery rules then you may well need the skill to keep yourself and the party in bows and arrows. Many of the skills are functional when played with a full rule set but nonfunctional as things like encumbrance, ration tracking, etc are discarded for “ease of play”.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I think it hinges on the GM. Many GM's don't really like it when you dodge their carefully planned encounters.
But with a good GM - or a skill-amenable GM at least - playing a (skill focussed) bard can be absolutely awesome. I've done so, and I learned to ask the other players in advance whether we actually wanted to resolve things peacefully, or if we were really more interested in creating a favorable starting position for combat.
All skills are cool and useful - but not evenly so.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.