I am currently playing a Level 5 Battle Master Fighter, who is able to use a Battleaxe and the Topple Mastery (CON save), and Trip Attack (STR save) from my Battle Master maneuvers to knock enemies prone. Do you think it would be overkill for me to take the Shield Master Feat at Level 6, which would allow me to force an enemy to make a third saving throw (STR save) to avoid being knocked prone?
It seems to me that the number of saving throws that you can force an enemy to make to avoid being knocked prone, in this case could be as many as 3, would increase your odds of knocking an enemy prone?
I am trying to figure out if I should take Shield Master at Level 6. If making an enemy make 3 saving throws is overkill, then I might want to take something else.
That’s going to depend on you and your group, and if it would get tedious. It will make your turn longer, that’s for sure. And don’t forget as you level in fighter, you’ll get more and more attacks, so more and more chances to use your topple weapon. So the real risk is, after you pile all these chances on, after you knock down something, all the other powers become useless, since they’re already down. To me, the shield is the way to go, knock them prone with your BA, then have advantage on your main attacks. Also keep in mind, depending on party composition prone can work against you, as all the ranged attackers in the party will have disadvantage.
It depends on what you’re going for, if you just like knocking things over then go for it. I don’t think it’s necessary personally, especially since there’s a lot of better options and prone isn’t a necessary condition to inflict (especially if you have two ways of doing it already). Prone can also put your ranged attackers at disadvantage. If you’re building around prone, I’d say the best way to go about that would be some kind of crit fishing thing (maybe barbarian levels for brutal critical, lance and piercer if you want to extra lean into it).
Overall though, as a fighter you should probably cover your weak points more, like your mobility and other forms of control, and usefulness out of combat. Fey touched, mobile, and magic initiate are excellent feats, as well as sentinel or great weapon master. Slasher cuts movement which is nice too.
As a dislcaimer though, I’m not as familiar with 6e and I’m not sure how much those feats have changed, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
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— δ cyno • he/him • number one paladin fanδ — making a smoothie for meta ——————| EXTENDED SIG |—————— Φ • redpelt’s biggest fan :) DM, minmaxer, microbiology student, and lover of anything colored red • Φ
It depends on what you’re going for, if you just like knocking things over then go for it. I don’t think it’s necessary personally, especially since there’s a lot of better options and prone isn’t a necessary condition to inflict (especially if you have two ways of doing it already). Prone can also put your ranged attackers at disadvantage. If you’re building around prone, I’d say the best way to go about that would be some kind of crit fishing thing (maybe barbarian levels for brutal critical, lance and piercer if you want to extra lean into it).
Overall though, as a fighter you should probably cover your weak points more, like your mobility and other forms of control, and usefulness out of combat. Fey touched, mobile, and magic initiate are excellent feats, as well as sentinel or great weapon master. Slasher cuts movement which is nice too.
As a dislcaimer though, I’m not as familiar with 6e and I’m not sure how much those feats have changed, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I took Sentinel at Level 4 and I took two Magic Initiate feats at level 1 to gain spells and cantrips to aid me in battle but they have fallen off at Level 5, even when I can combine Battle Master Maneuver damage to them (Blade Ward 2024, Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, True Strike, Silvery Barbs, and Protection from Evil & Good. Originally I was going to choose Eldritch Knight for my subclass, but went with Battle Master instead. It's a Curse of Strahd campaign and I am not sure what direction I want to go in. We have no Clerics in our party, and there is also a Paladin and Barbarian and I've even thought about multi-classing into Paladin, so I can gain bonus attacks with War Priest after 3 levels (My WIS is currently 15). I am also contemplating other feats like Fey Touched (for Hunter's Mark and Misty Step), Heavy Armor Master, Charger, and Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. if Shield Master would be overkill in knocking enemies prone, I will choose something else.
Paladin multiclass would be great, but since you didn’t start out with paladin levels, you’re going to be very behind in terms of spell slots. Could be worth it for a Strahd campaign though. True Strike universally sucks, and cantrips on a fighter primarily are going to be useful for out of combat, unless you’re multiclassing into bladesinger or something. But yes, to the original point, shield master is kind of overkill.
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— δ cyno • he/him • number one paladin fanδ — making a smoothie for meta ——————| EXTENDED SIG |—————— Φ • redpelt’s biggest fan :) DM, minmaxer, microbiology student, and lover of anything colored red • Φ
Paladin multiclass would be great, but since you didn’t start out with paladin levels, you’re going to be very behind in terms of spell slots. Could be worth it for a Strahd campaign though. True Strike universally sucks, and cantrips on a fighter primarily are going to be useful for out of combat, unless you’re multiclassing into bladesinger or something. But yes, to the original point, shield master is kind of overkill.
I'd love to be able to be able to take 2 levels of Paladin, but CHA was a dump stat. I'd love to add Divine Favor and Divine Smite to my character. I actually asked our DM if I can do a slight respec so I can do so, and she said she may allow it at some point but with some sort of penalty. I have a feeling that she may use Strahd in some way that would allow me to slightly respec. The 2024 version of True Strike is good, but it fell off at Level 5. I chose it because my Fighter needed some way to deal radiant damage against some undead. I mowed through some Shadows with it in Death House, but I haven't really used it that often since then. It's only going to be situationally useful against foes who take extra damage from radiant damage.
In 5e there is a fighter/battlemaster maneuver called trip attack.
"When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to knock the target down. You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and if the target is Large or smaller, it must make a https://1921681254.mx/ Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you knock the target prone."
That’s going to depend on you and your group, and if it would get tedious. It will make your turn longer, that’s for sure. And don’t forget as you level in fighter, you’ll get more and more attacks, so more and more chances to use your topple weapon. So the real risk is, after you pile all these chances on, after you knock down something, all the other powers become useless, since they’re already down. To me, the shield is the way to go, knock them prone with your BA, then have advantage on your main attacks. Also keep in mind, depending on party composition prone can work against you, as all the ranged attackers in the party will have disadvantage.
Potentially he could knock every enemy prone so the party gets to attack with advantage.
So to clarify some rules, if you're using weapon masteries then you have to be using the 2024 ruleset. Contrary to the discourse above, the 2024 shield master feat doesn't use your bonus action for the shove or prone effect.
It really isn't overkill to have that many options to force an enemy prone. Shield Master would let you have an option that targets a different save than topple without using a resource and that is great even with you already having trip attack. When legendary resistances come into play multiple saves is fantastic. You force the DM to decide if they're going to let the party beat on their prone boss with advantage or use a legendary resistance.
You absolutely should not take fey touched unless you're planning on multiclassing because it isn't that good without spell slots. Even if you multiclass at this point the usual level cap for curse of strahd is 10 so you'd only get 4 levels in another class. With only 4 levels to work with paladin or ranger are your best bets to multiclass if you didn't just go straight fighter. Just a note, you have to meet the ability score requirements for your starting class and your second class to multiclass. So you'd need a 13 str and cha to go paladin and a 13 dex and wis to go ranger.
That’s going to depend on you and your group, and if it would get tedious. It will make your turn longer, that’s for sure. And don’t forget as you level in fighter, you’ll get more and more attacks, so more and more chances to use your topple weapon. So the real risk is, after you pile all these chances on, after you knock down something, all the other powers become useless, since they’re already down. To me, the shield is the way to go, knock them prone with your BA, then have advantage on your main attacks. Also keep in mind, depending on party composition prone can work against you, as all the ranged attackers in the party will have disadvantage.
Potentially he could knock every enemy prone so the party gets to attack with advantage.
That assumes 1. He is near enough to every enemy. 2. No one in the party uses ranged attacks, and would therefore be at disadvantage to attack a prone target.
That’s going to depend on you and your group, and if it would get tedious. It will make your turn longer, that’s for sure. And don’t forget as you level in fighter, you’ll get more and more attacks, so more and more chances to use your topple weapon. So the real risk is, after you pile all these chances on, after you knock down something, all the other powers become useless, since they’re already down. To me, the shield is the way to go, knock them prone with your BA, then have advantage on your main attacks. Also keep in mind, depending on party composition prone can work against you, as all the ranged attackers in the party will have disadvantage.
Potentially he could knock every enemy prone so the party gets to attack with advantage.
That assumes 1. He is near enough to every enemy. 2. No one in the party uses ranged attacks, and would therefore be at disadvantage to attack a prone target.
We have two characters who can deal ranged damage, but they're also equally adept at dealing melee damage and they tend to do both depending on the situation (Blood Hunter & Arcane Trickster). Our College of Dance Bard focuses a lot on support and defensive spells and Bardic Punch (+7 and 1d8+4). Then we have me (Battle Master), an Oath of Devotion Paladin, and a Path of the Zealots Barbarian, which are all melee focused. Knocking enemies prone should be extremely beneficial for the party. I just don't want to pick up Shield Master, if Trip Attack and my Battleaxe or Trident with their Topple Mastery is sufficient. I have some levels to play around with it, to find out if I think it would be overkill or not. I might multiclass into Paladin after my Level 6 feat, and take my last 3 or 4 levels in Paladin. I think a Multiclass into an Oath of Vengeance Paladin could really ramp up the DPR on my character. I've only been playing since September, so I'm not really sure.
That’s going to depend on you and your group, and if it would get tedious. It will make your turn longer, that’s for sure. And don’t forget as you level in fighter, you’ll get more and more attacks, so more and more chances to use your topple weapon. So the real risk is, after you pile all these chances on, after you knock down something, all the other powers become useless, since they’re already down. To me, the shield is the way to go, knock them prone with your BA, then have advantage on your main attacks. Also keep in mind, depending on party composition prone can work against you, as all the ranged attackers in the party will have disadvantage.
Potentially he could knock every enemy prone so the party gets to attack with advantage.
That assumes 1. He is near enough to every enemy. 2. No one in the party uses ranged attacks, and would therefore be at disadvantage to attack a prone target.
Very seldom in a combat is 1 enemy going to go off to fight 1 PC. Most players at this point realize that if they team up on an enemy due to the action economy they are going to come out ahead. He doesn't need to be near every enemy, just more than one. Sure granting disadvantage to the ranged pcs is bad, but there is probably still someone standing that they can target. And for most ranged characters it really doesn't matter as they tend to have spells they can resort to. Also it is a bad idea to make your character only ranged or only melee. You should be able to switch back and forth.
But this is where a session zero is wonderful. If you know you have a fighter who is going to concentrate on knocking enemies prone, you help make your character capable of adapting. Because if there is a single boss, then its better for the entire party to get advantage and hit the creature while its prone than not. Basically don't make one dimensional characters.
I am currently playing a Level 5 Battle Master Fighter, who is able to use a Battleaxe and the Topple Mastery (CON save), and Trip Attack (STR save) from my Battle Master maneuvers to knock enemies prone. Do you think it would be overkill for me to take the Shield Master Feat at Level 6, which would allow me to force an enemy to make a third saving throw (STR save) to avoid being knocked prone?
It seems to me that the number of saving throws that you can force an enemy to make to avoid being knocked prone, in this case could be as many as 3, would increase your odds of knocking an enemy prone?
I am trying to figure out if I should take Shield Master at Level 6. If making an enemy make 3 saving throws is overkill, then I might want to take something else.
TIA
That’s going to depend on you and your group, and if it would get tedious. It will make your turn longer, that’s for sure. And don’t forget as you level in fighter, you’ll get more and more attacks, so more and more chances to use your topple weapon. So the real risk is, after you pile all these chances on, after you knock down something, all the other powers become useless, since they’re already down. To me, the shield is the way to go, knock them prone with your BA, then have advantage on your main attacks.
Also keep in mind, depending on party composition prone can work against you, as all the ranged attackers in the party will have disadvantage.
It depends on what you’re going for, if you just like knocking things over then go for it. I don’t think it’s necessary personally, especially since there’s a lot of better options and prone isn’t a necessary condition to inflict (especially if you have two ways of doing it already). Prone can also put your ranged attackers at disadvantage. If you’re building around prone, I’d say the best way to go about that would be some kind of crit fishing thing (maybe barbarian levels for brutal critical, lance and piercer if you want to extra lean into it).
Overall though, as a fighter you should probably cover your weak points more, like your mobility and other forms of control, and usefulness out of combat. Fey touched, mobile, and magic initiate are excellent feats, as well as sentinel or great weapon master. Slasher cuts movement which is nice too.
As a dislcaimer though, I’m not as familiar with 6e and I’m not sure how much those feats have changed, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
— δ cyno • he/him • number one paladin fan δ —
making a smoothie for meta
——————| EXTENDED SIG |——————
Φ • redpelt’s biggest fan :) DM, minmaxer, microbiology student, and lover of anything colored red • Φ
I took Sentinel at Level 4 and I took two Magic Initiate feats at level 1 to gain spells and cantrips to aid me in battle but they have fallen off at Level 5, even when I can combine Battle Master Maneuver damage to them (Blade Ward 2024, Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, True Strike, Silvery Barbs, and Protection from Evil & Good. Originally I was going to choose Eldritch Knight for my subclass, but went with Battle Master instead. It's a Curse of Strahd campaign and I am not sure what direction I want to go in. We have no Clerics in our party, and there is also a Paladin and Barbarian and I've even thought about multi-classing into Paladin, so I can gain bonus attacks with War Priest after 3 levels (My WIS is currently 15). I am also contemplating other feats like Fey Touched (for Hunter's Mark and Misty Step), Heavy Armor Master, Charger, and Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. if Shield Master would be overkill in knocking enemies prone, I will choose something else.
Paladin multiclass would be great, but since you didn’t start out with paladin levels, you’re going to be very behind in terms of spell slots. Could be worth it for a Strahd campaign though. True Strike universally sucks, and cantrips on a fighter primarily are going to be useful for out of combat, unless you’re multiclassing into bladesinger or something. But yes, to the original point, shield master is kind of overkill.
— δ cyno • he/him • number one paladin fan δ —
making a smoothie for meta
——————| EXTENDED SIG |——————
Φ • redpelt’s biggest fan :) DM, minmaxer, microbiology student, and lover of anything colored red • Φ
I'd love to be able to be able to take 2 levels of Paladin, but CHA was a dump stat. I'd love to add Divine Favor and Divine Smite to my character. I actually asked our DM if I can do a slight respec so I can do so, and she said she may allow it at some point but with some sort of penalty. I have a feeling that she may use Strahd in some way that would allow me to slightly respec. The 2024 version of True Strike is good, but it fell off at Level 5. I chose it because my Fighter needed some way to deal radiant damage against some undead. I mowed through some Shadows with it in Death House, but I haven't really used it that often since then. It's only going to be situationally useful against foes who take extra damage from radiant damage.
In 5e there is a fighter/battlemaster maneuver called trip attack.
"When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to knock the target down. You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and if the target is Large or smaller, it must make a https://1921681254.mx/ Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you knock the target prone."
Potentially he could knock every enemy prone so the party gets to attack with advantage.
So to clarify some rules, if you're using weapon masteries then you have to be using the 2024 ruleset. Contrary to the discourse above, the 2024 shield master feat doesn't use your bonus action for the shove or prone effect.
It really isn't overkill to have that many options to force an enemy prone. Shield Master would let you have an option that targets a different save than topple without using a resource and that is great even with you already having trip attack. When legendary resistances come into play multiple saves is fantastic. You force the DM to decide if they're going to let the party beat on their prone boss with advantage or use a legendary resistance.
You absolutely should not take fey touched unless you're planning on multiclassing because it isn't that good without spell slots. Even if you multiclass at this point the usual level cap for curse of strahd is 10 so you'd only get 4 levels in another class. With only 4 levels to work with paladin or ranger are your best bets to multiclass if you didn't just go straight fighter. Just a note, you have to meet the ability score requirements for your starting class and your second class to multiclass. So you'd need a 13 str and cha to go paladin and a 13 dex and wis to go ranger.
That assumes 1. He is near enough to every enemy. 2. No one in the party uses ranged attacks, and would therefore be at disadvantage to attack a prone target.
Just stay pure Fighter and leave the spells for other folk. If anything pick up 1 level of Ranger for Hunter's Mark if you really want it.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
We have two characters who can deal ranged damage, but they're also equally adept at dealing melee damage and they tend to do both depending on the situation (Blood Hunter & Arcane Trickster). Our College of Dance Bard focuses a lot on support and defensive spells and Bardic Punch (+7 and 1d8+4). Then we have me (Battle Master), an Oath of Devotion Paladin, and a Path of the Zealots Barbarian, which are all melee focused. Knocking enemies prone should be extremely beneficial for the party. I just don't want to pick up Shield Master, if Trip Attack and my Battleaxe or Trident with their Topple Mastery is sufficient. I have some levels to play around with it, to find out if I think it would be overkill or not. I might multiclass into Paladin after my Level 6 feat, and take my last 3 or 4 levels in Paladin. I think a Multiclass into an Oath of Vengeance Paladin could really ramp up the DPR on my character. I've only been playing since September, so I'm not really sure.
Add some Monk levels because my bias for Monks compels me to add this advice.
Very seldom in a combat is 1 enemy going to go off to fight 1 PC. Most players at this point realize that if they team up on an enemy due to the action economy they are going to come out ahead. He doesn't need to be near every enemy, just more than one. Sure granting disadvantage to the ranged pcs is bad, but there is probably still someone standing that they can target. And for most ranged characters it really doesn't matter as they tend to have spells they can resort to. Also it is a bad idea to make your character only ranged or only melee. You should be able to switch back and forth.
But this is where a session zero is wonderful. If you know you have a fighter who is going to concentrate on knocking enemies prone, you help make your character capable of adapting. Because if there is a single boss, then its better for the entire party to get advantage and hit the creature while its prone than not. Basically don't make one dimensional characters.
This is a highly stat dependent suggestion.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale