usually things from different abilities stack so i love minotaur and i know crusher works with hammering horns and if something triggers at the same time you decide which trigger first . so crusher trigger on hit moving up push trigger on hit and battle master maneuver push so can i push them diagonal 25ft so they fall 20ft and take 2d6 damage and what of minotaur hammering horns which happens Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack as part of the Attack action on your turn, .....its a push thats part of the attack..........?
The player decides on what order their simultaneous effects happen. All those basically happen on a hit so you pick.
I have a fighter, crusher and push. Crusher doesn’t specify that I cannot uppercut an opponent into the air and push is straight away so that’s up diagonally as well. I propel enemies into the air, they take damage and fall prone. Pretty funny.
Since the battle map in non-Euclidean, there's zero difference between moving a target straight or at a diagonal. (There's an optional rule for every other grid square being 10 feet, but we don't care about that.) Since the distance they move along the map is the same no matter what, you're basically saying you should be able to cheese extra damage.
Push effects require the target to move directly away from the creature that caused the effect. The only way you'd be able to push a target up is if you were below them.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Push effects require the target to move directly away from the creature that caused the effect. The only way you'd be able to push a target up is if you were below them.
Crusher is not a push effect. It says "...you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space..." Directly up from a monster's current position counts as an occupied space, leaving the creature one square adjacent and above you, so additional push effects would push them diagonally up and away from you.
Here is a YouTube video by Treantmonk explaining a launcher build using a World Tree Barbarian. It goes over the rules and logistics pretty well: Treantmonk's Launcher Build
Push effects require the target to move directly away from the creature that caused the effect. The only way you'd be able to push a target up is if you were below them.
Crusher is not a push effect. It says "...you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space..." Directly up from a monster's current position counts as an occupied space, leaving the creature one square adjacent and above you, so additional push effects would push them diagonally up and away from you.
Here is a YouTube video by Treantmonk explaining a launcher build using a World Tree Barbarian. It goes over the rules and logistics pretty well: Treantmonk's Launcher Build
The newer version of Crusher from the 2024 PHB calls it a push effect. And even if it didn't, Hammering Horns and the Push maneuver both are, so that would leave you with a maximum of 5 ft vertical movement, which isn't enough to cause fall damage even if a GM was inclined to let you move targets vertically instead of limiting it to horizontally.
Push effects require the target to move directly away from the creature that caused the effect. The only way you'd be able to push a target up is if you were below them.
Crusher is not a push effect. It says "...you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space..." Directly up from a monster's current position counts as an occupied space, leaving the creature one square adjacent and above you, so additional push effects would push them diagonally up and away from you.
Here is a YouTube video by Treantmonk explaining a launcher build using a World Tree Barbarian. It goes over the rules and logistics pretty well: Treantmonk's Launcher Build
The newer version of Crusher from the 2024 PHB calls it a push effect. And even if it didn't, Hammering Horns and the Push maneuver both are, so that would leave you with a maximum of 5 ft vertical movement, which isn't enough to cause fall damage even if a GM was inclined to let you move targets vertically instead of limiting it to horizontally.
Once the target is 5 feet up, all movement will be diagonal, which is rounded up and gives you 1D6 for every 10 feet of pushing you can do.
Hammering horns have always been able to move diagonal causing fall damage my issue were wether it would stack with push from weapons and battle master because of the wording when it happens
As ridiculous as this might sound, "Up" is not a recognized direction in the rules. We don't play in 5-foot cubes.
Up is a recognized direction, otherwise spells like Call Lightning would not have to specify a height, and without playing in three dimensions spells like Fly would become useful in only niche cases.
As ridiculous as this might sound, "Up" is not a recognized direction in the rules. We don't play in 5-foot cubes.
Up is a recognized direction, otherwise spells like Call Lightning would not have to specify a height, and without playing in three dimensions spells like Fly would become useful in only niche cases.
There's a world of difference from an area of effect having a third dimension (height) and moving a character into a space which doesn't exist.
Elevation variation exists even when using 2D battle maps. When an adjacent square contain a balcony 10 feet higher, creatures on it occupies a 5-foot space yet aren't within 5 feet of you despite being in the adjacent square. Similarly, when you step in a trap, fall 20 feet down and take damage it's because that square isn't at the same level.
3D is moreso a reference most often considered when flying, jumping or other movement upward or downward, as well as higher ground or drop.
As ridiculous as this might sound, "Up" is not a recognized direction in the rules. We don't play in 5-foot cubes.
Up is a recognized direction, otherwise spells like Call Lightning would not have to specify a height, and without playing in three dimensions spells like Fly would become useful in only niche cases.
There's a world of difference from an area of effect having a third dimension (height) and moving a character into a space which doesn't exist.
We don't break battle maps up into 5-foot cubes.
Battle maps and 5-foot squares (or cubes) are an optional rule in D&D. The behavior of other, non-optional rules shouldn't be beholden to their limitations.
As ridiculous as this might sound, "Up" is not a recognized direction in the rules. We don't play in 5-foot cubes.
Up is a recognized direction, otherwise spells like Call Lightning would not have to specify a height, and without playing in three dimensions spells like Fly would become useful in only niche cases.
There's a world of difference from an area of effect having a third dimension (height) and moving a character into a space which doesn't exist.
We don't break battle maps up into 5-foot cubes.
Battle maps and 5-foot squares (or cubes) are an optional rule in D&D. The behavior of other, non-optional rules shouldn't be beholden to their limitations.
There's a sidebar (Playing on a Grid) in both the 2014 and 2024 PH that references squares, not cubes. If we're seriously talking about being able to push people in three dimensions, then we're officially in house rules territory.
The 5-foot cube as the dimensions of a space isn't even implied in the rules.
If it were implied, could a tall enough medium character occupy two cubes, one on top of the other?
If we assume Medium means only a 5-foot cube, then a vertical shift of one cube is still an adjacent cube and not a push away.
As far are the rules are concerned, "unoccupied space" doesn't have a vertical floor or ceiling. It could be 1 foot off the ground, for all we know. The point I initially raised was allowing for diagonal movement up through the air to cheese extra damage is well into house rules territory. The position I responded to boils down to, "The rules don't say I can't do this thing, so I can totally do this thing."
That's a bad faith interpretation. We know this. You couldn't pull that at a DDAL table.
There are many, many things that have cube-shaped areas of effect — I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a "cube as the dimensions of a space isn't even implied in the rules".
But, again, it doesn't matter, because the rules are intentionally written to be applicable to non-grid-based games — the question of whether a grid map is divided into squares or cubes has no relevance to the question of whether effects that allow you to move something a certain distance allow you to move it up or not. And if you're saying that "up isn't a recognized direction", then you're saying that nothing can ever be above anything else, flying creatures can't fly over other creatures, and the spell Levitate — which explicitly moves a creature or object directly up — doesn't do anything. Does that make sense?
DDAL doesn't follow the Rules As Written entirely itself, so whether they do or don't allow something is not really relevant to the question of whether it's allowed by the RAW.
Fine, "up" is real because Levitate exists. I mistyped. Now, back to the original issue.
Again, the template for an area of effect is not the same as a direction you can move or force someone to move in. A building can have dimensions. A character, sort of, has dimensions. In reality, they occupy a space within the game's rules framework. This means spaces must have clear boundaries, and an "unoccupied space" must be a space that somehow isn't occupied.
Define those boundaries, for every size category, regardless of the actual height of a creature. This means a dwarf that's only 4-feet tall and can reach 2-feet above their head must have the same ceiling as a goliath that's 8-feet tall and can reach 12-feet above their head.
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usually things from different abilities stack so i love minotaur and i know crusher works with hammering horns and if something triggers at the same time you decide which trigger first . so crusher trigger on hit moving up push trigger on hit and battle master maneuver push so can i push them diagonal 25ft so they fall 20ft and take 2d6 damage and what of minotaur hammering horns which happens Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack as part of the Attack action on your turn, .....its a push thats part of the attack..........?
The player decides on what order their simultaneous effects happen. All those basically happen on a hit so you pick.
I have a fighter, crusher and push. Crusher doesn’t specify that I cannot uppercut an opponent into the air and push is straight away so that’s up diagonally as well. I propel enemies into the air, they take damage and fall prone. Pretty funny.
Since the battle map in non-Euclidean, there's zero difference between moving a target straight or at a diagonal. (There's an optional rule for every other grid square being 10 feet, but we don't care about that.) Since the distance they move along the map is the same no matter what, you're basically saying you should be able to cheese extra damage.
yes ofc he should be able to dish out some
fall damage
Push effects require the target to move directly away from the creature that caused the effect. The only way you'd be able to push a target up is if you were below them.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Crusher is not a push effect. It says "...you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space..." Directly up from a monster's current position counts as an occupied space, leaving the creature one square adjacent and above you, so additional push effects would push them diagonally up and away from you.
Here is a YouTube video by Treantmonk explaining a launcher build using a World Tree Barbarian. It goes over the rules and logistics pretty well: Treantmonk's Launcher Build
As ridiculous as this might sound, "Up" is not a recognized direction in the rules. We don't play in 5-foot cubes.
The newer version of Crusher from the 2024 PHB calls it a push effect. And even if it didn't, Hammering Horns and the Push maneuver both are, so that would leave you with a maximum of 5 ft vertical movement, which isn't enough to cause fall damage even if a GM was inclined to let you move targets vertically instead of limiting it to horizontally.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Once the target is 5 feet up, all movement will be diagonal, which is rounded up and gives you 1D6 for every 10 feet of pushing you can do.
Hammering horns have always been able to move diagonal causing fall damage my issue were wether it would stack with push from weapons and battle master because of the wording when it happens
It would appears so, but the rules are silent on how to resolve anything in 3D.
My simplest way is to treat squares as cubes to account for third dimension i.e 5 x 5 x 5 ft and calculate range distance accordingly.
Up is a recognized direction, otherwise spells like Call Lightning would not have to specify a height, and without playing in three dimensions spells like Fly would become useful in only niche cases.
There's a world of difference from an area of effect having a third dimension (height) and moving a character into a space which doesn't exist.
We don't break battle maps up into 5-foot cubes.
Elevation variation exists even when using 2D battle maps. When an adjacent square contain a balcony 10 feet higher, creatures on it occupies a 5-foot space yet aren't within 5 feet of you despite being in the adjacent square. Similarly, when you step in a trap, fall 20 feet down and take damage it's because that square isn't at the same level.
3D is moreso a reference most often considered when flying, jumping or other movement upward or downward, as well as higher ground or drop.
5E has up and down for sure.
Battle maps and 5-foot squares (or cubes) are an optional rule in D&D. The behavior of other, non-optional rules shouldn't be beholden to their limitations.
pronouns: he/she/they
There's a sidebar (Playing on a Grid) in both the 2014 and 2024 PH that references squares, not cubes. If we're seriously talking about being able to push people in three dimensions, then we're officially in house rules territory.
As far are the rules are concerned, "unoccupied space" doesn't have a vertical floor or ceiling. It could be 1 foot off the ground, for all we know. The point I initially raised was allowing for diagonal movement up through the air to cheese extra damage is well into house rules territory. The position I responded to boils down to, "The rules don't say I can't do this thing, so I can totally do this thing."
That's a bad faith interpretation. We know this. You couldn't pull that at a DDAL table.
There are many, many things that have cube-shaped areas of effect — I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a "cube as the dimensions of a space isn't even implied in the rules".
But, again, it doesn't matter, because the rules are intentionally written to be applicable to non-grid-based games — the question of whether a grid map is divided into squares or cubes has no relevance to the question of whether effects that allow you to move something a certain distance allow you to move it up or not. And if you're saying that "up isn't a recognized direction", then you're saying that nothing can ever be above anything else, flying creatures can't fly over other creatures, and the spell Levitate — which explicitly moves a creature or object directly up — doesn't do anything. Does that make sense?
DDAL doesn't follow the Rules As Written entirely itself, so whether they do or don't allow something is not really relevant to the question of whether it's allowed by the RAW.
pronouns: he/she/they
Fine, "up" is real because Levitate exists. I mistyped. Now, back to the original issue.
Again, the template for an area of effect is not the same as a direction you can move or force someone to move in. A building can have dimensions. A character, sort of, has dimensions. In reality, they occupy a space within the game's rules framework. This means spaces must have clear boundaries, and an "unoccupied space" must be a space that somehow isn't occupied.
Define those boundaries, for every size category, regardless of the actual height of a creature. This means a dwarf that's only 4-feet tall and can reach 2-feet above their head must have the same ceiling as a goliath that's 8-feet tall and can reach 12-feet above their head.