So originally my table either didn't think my Ancestral Guardian had access to Reckless Attack or that it didn’t mean the same thing as it does with others when I tried to roll my attack with advantage. Part of the issueI had was I chose Savage Attacker, which revolves around getting a better chance at these higher dice and relies on getting hits more reliably through Reckless Attack to work, but oh well; I moved on…
Because of this, I worked on getting a shield and managed to get a +1 shield forged at level 5. Not bad.
i also got the chance to replace a starting weapon (as well as a feat), so I chose to swap my soldier background spear with a Battleaxe. Cool, i think.
…last session they brought up reckless attack in the middle of a battle and said the way to use it was exactly what I said before. I stood there with my shield going “Hey man what the
(sigh)
Anyway, obviously Barbarians are meant to be able to use shield-related stuff, but that seems more like it’s for a Tough/Farmer build, and I am really attached to my Savage Attacker/Soldier background anyway, so I don’t want to change it even if they asked me.
I guess what I’m trying to ask is if as a Savage Attacker I should give up my +1 shield to someone who could use it better and go back to my Greataxe D12 instead of my Battleaxe D8 for a better chance at more damage since I can in fact Reckless Attack.
I think Savage Attacker is probably only worth having if you're going to use a weapon that uses multiple damage dice (e.g. a Greatsword with 2d6). On single-die weapons it's just not adding enough damage on average.
I couldn't really follow what you're saying about Reckless Attack, but the 2024 version does work slightly differently (it now gives you advantage on attacks you make on other people's turns, like opportunity attacks, when the 2014 version did not) which may be a point of confusion for some people.
Darn. Guess I should have swapped my Greataxe with a Great Sword instead. Oh well.
That wasn’t an issue I was referencing, but that did also come up with an opportunity attack or two. Part of it was me using sentinel. I’m glad everyone was there to talk me through how it worked. Who knows, maybe I’m just misunderstanding them.
Anyway, I think we’re all on the right page as far as being able to Reckless Attack and what it means to. I was more focused on the Savage Attacker and whether or not I should be focused more on dealing damage than protecting myself as an Ancestral Guardian with access to a decent alternative via the D8 Topple weapon and the +1 shield.
Savage Attacker will look flaky on most weapons until you are making multiple attacks. Honestly, I think it's fine to stick with a greataxe- it has Cleave, so that's already a possibility of a second attack at level 1, and it's got enough range that the reroll can potentially explode for big damage. If you turn a 3 into a 1, you might be a little bummed, but you're still 3 times as likely to get a higher result, and turning a low roll into a 12 should feel pretty good.
I think Savage Attacker is probably only worth having if you're going to use a weapon that uses multiple damage dice (e.g. a Greatsword with 2d6). On single-die weapons it's just not adding enough damage on average.
I couldn't really follow what you're saying about Reckless Attack, but the 2024 version does work slightly differently (it now gives you advantage on attacks you make on other people's turns, like opportunity attacks, when the 2014 version did not) which may be a point of confusion for some people.
I feel like a D12 will be better, 2 dice will give you more-average rolls.
When you're making more attack rolls, you can save it for when you roll low- you're a lot more likely to get a damage boost off rerolling a 3 than a 9.
Also, I thought I got to keep the bigger roll.
Guess I need to do some rereading.
No, that's probably on me. In that case, it's all advantage because you can just fish on most rolls. Won't necessarily ping, but it's never going to hurt.
When you're making more attack rolls, you can save it for when you roll low- you're a lot more likely to get a damage boost off rerolling a 3 than a 9.
Savage attacker does not allow you to reroll a low damage roll. You have to choose to use the feature before you roll, then you get to roll twice and keep the highest. Essentially, once per turn you get advantage on one damage roll.
I think this thread might benefit from the actual text of the feat:
You’ve trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. Once per turn when you hit a target with a weapon, you can roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
So, you choose to use this after you know that you've hit the target, but before you roll the damage dice, and you choose which of the two damage rolls to use. Presumably you're going to choose the higher one, but in theory you could use this to nerf your own damage by picking the lower one if you wanted to.
I was thinking about this one after reading it! Okay, I think we all should have it straight now. A greatsword is still a good option, just not in the way it was first made out to be. No big deal.
i just have to decide what’s worth swapping my greataxe for.
If you are using Savage Attacker, you will get more mileage out of the feature if you are using a weapon with a single large damage die. Here are the percentages for each damage roll using a Greataxe and Greatsword.
Greataxe
Greatsword
Roll
Chance
%
Chance
%
1
1/12
8.33
---
---
2
1/12
8.33
1/36
2.78
3
1/12
8.33
2/36
5.56
4
1/12
8.33
3/36
8.33
5
1/12
8.33
4/36
11.11
6
1/12
8.33
5/36
13.89
7
1/12
8.33
6/36
16.67
8
1/12
8.33
5/36
13.89
9
1/12
8.33
4/36
11.11
10
1/12
8.33
3/36
8.33
11
1/12
8.33
2/36
5.56
12
1/12
8.33
1/36
2.78
In summary, 2d6 is more likely to be near the average, and 1d12 has an equal chance of being very high or very low, so Savage Attacker benefits the single die better because you are more likely to have a larger difference between the two rolls.
Damage average for 1d8 is 4.5 per die roll. For 1d12 it is 6.5. Your chances of doing more damage is statistically better with the Great Axe. From there all you need to do is see what you can benefit from the Master Properties as a bonus.
Well, the battleaxe (4.5) gets topple, whereas the Greataxe (6.5) gets Cleave. Both have there limitations, but I do honestly feel like the size limitation of topple is less of one than the numbers and positioning one of cleave, especially in the campaign I am in where we typically only fight one enemy at a time.
For now I have decided to use the Battleaxe so I can use the +1 shield i got. Should the party come across a large weapon, I will likely request it since I am the only one who can really use it anyway and pass the shield onto the Cleric if he needs it.
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It’s my 400th post, and I got a doozy for you!
So originally my table either didn't think my Ancestral Guardian had access to Reckless Attack or that it didn’t mean the same thing as it does with others when I tried to roll my attack with advantage. Part of the issueI had was I chose Savage Attacker, which revolves around getting a better chance at these higher dice and relies on getting hits more reliably through Reckless Attack to work, but oh well; I moved on…
Because of this, I worked on getting a shield and managed to get a +1 shield forged at level 5. Not bad.
i also got the chance to replace a starting weapon (as well as a feat), so I chose to swap my soldier background spear with a Battleaxe. Cool, i think.
…last session they brought up reckless attack in the middle of a battle and said the way to use it was exactly what I said before. I stood there with my shield going “Hey man what the
(sigh)
Anyway, obviously Barbarians are meant to be able to use shield-related stuff, but that seems more like it’s for a Tough/Farmer build, and I am really attached to my Savage Attacker/Soldier background anyway, so I don’t want to change it even if they asked me.
I guess what I’m trying to ask is if as a Savage Attacker I should give up my +1 shield to someone who could use it better and go back to my Greataxe D12 instead of my Battleaxe D8 for a better chance at more damage since I can in fact Reckless Attack.
…unless they tell me otherwise… again…
I think Savage Attacker is probably only worth having if you're going to use a weapon that uses multiple damage dice (e.g. a Greatsword with 2d6). On single-die weapons it's just not adding enough damage on average.
I couldn't really follow what you're saying about Reckless Attack, but the 2024 version does work slightly differently (it now gives you advantage on attacks you make on other people's turns, like opportunity attacks, when the 2014 version did not) which may be a point of confusion for some people.
pronouns: he/she/they
Darn. Guess I should have swapped my Greataxe with a Great Sword instead. Oh well.
That wasn’t an issue I was referencing, but that did also come up with an opportunity attack or two. Part of it was me using sentinel. I’m glad everyone was there to talk me through how it worked. Who knows, maybe I’m just misunderstanding them.
Anyway, I think we’re all on the right page as far as being able to Reckless Attack and what it means to. I was more focused on the Savage Attacker and whether or not I should be focused more on dealing damage than protecting myself as an Ancestral Guardian with access to a decent alternative via the D8 Topple weapon and the +1 shield.
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly!
Savage Attacker will look flaky on most weapons until you are making multiple attacks. Honestly, I think it's fine to stick with a greataxe- it has Cleave, so that's already a possibility of a second attack at level 1, and it's got enough range that the reroll can potentially explode for big damage. If you turn a 3 into a 1, you might be a little bummed, but you're still 3 times as likely to get a higher result, and turning a low roll into a 12 should feel pretty good.
I feel like a D12 will be better, 2 dice will give you more-average rolls.
How so? I thought it only worked on one attack.
Also, I thought I got to keep the bigger roll.
Guess I need to do some rereading.
Thanks allthesame though!
When you're making more attack rolls, you can save it for when you roll low- you're a lot more likely to get a damage boost off rerolling a 3 than a 9.
No, that's probably on me. In that case, it's all advantage because you can just fish on most rolls. Won't necessarily ping, but it's never going to hurt.
No problem.
Savage attacker does not allow you to reroll a low damage roll. You have to choose to use the feature before you roll, then you get to roll twice and keep the highest. Essentially, once per turn you get advantage on one damage roll.
I think this thread might benefit from the actual text of the feat:
You’ve trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. Once per turn when you hit a target with a weapon, you can roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
So, you choose to use this after you know that you've hit the target, but before you roll the damage dice, and you choose which of the two damage rolls to use. Presumably you're going to choose the higher one, but in theory you could use this to nerf your own damage by picking the lower one if you wanted to.
pronouns: he/she/they
I was thinking about this one after reading it! Okay, I think we all should have it straight now. A greatsword is still a good option, just not in the way it was first made out to be. No big deal.
i just have to decide what’s worth swapping my greataxe for.
If you are using Savage Attacker, you will get more mileage out of the feature if you are using a weapon with a single large damage die. Here are the percentages for each damage roll using a Greataxe and Greatsword.
In summary, 2d6 is more likely to be near the average, and 1d12 has an equal chance of being very high or very low, so Savage Attacker benefits the single die better because you are more likely to have a larger difference between the two rolls.
Wow! Ok, thanks. Impressive work!
Damage average for 1d8 is 4.5 per die roll. For 1d12 it is 6.5. Your chances of doing more damage is statistically better with the Great Axe. From there all you need to do is see what you can benefit from the Master Properties as a bonus.
Well, the battleaxe (4.5) gets topple, whereas the Greataxe (6.5) gets Cleave. Both have there limitations, but I do honestly feel like the size limitation of topple is less of one than the numbers and positioning one of cleave, especially in the campaign I am in where we typically only fight one enemy at a time.
For now I have decided to use the Battleaxe so I can use the +1 shield i got. Should the party come across a large weapon, I will likely request it since I am the only one who can really use it anyway and pass the shield onto the Cleric if he needs it.