Every adventurer has likely partaken in the death of at least half a dozen of these creatures in their career, usually very early on. However I think DMs tend to underplay the dangers of these crafty bad guys. For example in sunless citadel, they have a setup with an easy method of retreat, into another area with goblins. After the first goblin was near instantly slain, his partner dashed off, warning the next room. Because of their bonus action hide, the old goblin, and his new friends were all able to both hide, and ready an attack against the first target they see, in a single turn.
Unfortunately, the brave paladin charging after the one goblin wasn't ready for 3 shots with advantage and 1 without (bad stealth roll) and took a quick nap as soon as he rounded the corner. Needless to say, when the last goblin from that pack ran away, the adventurers were much more cautious and planned in their pursuit of the goblin.
Remember goblins have 10 INT, they are just as smart as the average human.
EDIT: Replaced a needless to say with Unfortunately because it bothered me.
Thank you! I enjoyed the perspective/attention towards goblins. I know I have used them far too often as fodder before or during encounters with 'more important' enemies. Hopefully, DMs will use this as inspiration to get a touch more crafty when incorporating goblin mechanics into their future sessions.
Yup, they can be nasty. I ran a wilderness encounter that really pushed a group to the limits.
8 goblins, all spread out, armed with shortbows. The goblins can not only perform the usual harassment that you would expect from archers, but it's worse.
For each goblin's turn, it moves out from behind it's full cover, makes a ranged attack against a player character, then moves back behind the cover and HIDES.
This means that, even if a party member charges the goblin's position, there's a reasonable chance they won't event see the goblin to be able to do anything about it.
It was a bit of a lesson for the group in using readied actions, which I explained to them, when they asked how they could "go on overwatch for goblins"
It was a bit of a lesson for the group in using readied actions, which I explained to them, when they asked how they could "go on overwatch for goblins"
Every adventurer has likely partaken in the death of at least half a dozen of these creatures in their career, usually very early on. However I think DMs tend to underplay the dangers of these crafty bad guys. For example in sunless citadel, they have a setup with an easy method of retreat, into another area with goblins. After the first goblin was near instantly slain, his partner dashed off, warning the next room. Because of their bonus action hide, the old goblin, and his new friends were all able to both hide, and ready an attack against the first target they see, in a single turn.
Unfortunately, the brave paladin charging after the one goblin wasn't ready for 3 shots with advantage and 1 without (bad stealth roll) and took a quick nap as soon as he rounded the corner. Needless to say, when the last goblin from that pack ran away, the adventurers were much more cautious and planned in their pursuit of the goblin.
Remember goblins have 10 INT, they are just as smart as the average human.
EDIT: Replaced a needless to say with Unfortunately because it bothered me.
Goblins are a lvl 1 trope I never fully understood. They're devious! I always like a good adventure in the sewers. Those darn rats are a bit better for a lvl 1party :)
I have seen goblins decimate a 10th level party. Range attacks,, stealth, hide as a bonus action, able to fit through small tunnels your normal PC can't pack tactics, use of traps, and breed like crazy.
Smart Goblins always attack from multiple directions, use sniper tactics (shoot, hide, move, repeat). And this means they are hard to catch all of them in an AoE.
There is a reason smart Hobgoblin Warlords use the goblins as skirmish and ambush troops.
The internet is full of horror stories from a goblin TPK.
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--
DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
I had a group of 3 level 6 adventures stop in fear at a bridge from 4 goblins. Goblins are nasty creatures. They excel at making traps and setting up some amazing ambushes. Range attacks from hidden locations can cause some serious damage to any group of unwary travelers. A few goblins can harass a group for a while. No long rest for you.
Every mountain pass puts my players on edge because of one story that got around of the group that came close to a TPK from just a few of these nasty creatures.
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JT "You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Have you ever seen just one goblin? They almost never wander around alone, they always have friends with them and a large enough group of goblins will make any party's life miserable. Even only one or two goblins are next to impossible to find and catch if they decide to play "tag".
Yep. The beginner box adventure ended for my group with a TPK at the goblin cave.
The rogue was spotted by the guards, and got nailed with two crits. The fighter's torch triggered the first flood, and then he *yelled* at the goblin on the bridge triggering the second, which washed his unconscious body out of the cave. The archer and wizard were chewed to pieces by the wolves in the right-hand chamber.
Ok, technically it wasn't a TPK. The wizard survived with 2 HP and (at least theoretically) dragged his unconscious companions to safety.
But that was a *small* group of moderately prepared goblins.
If you have a small creature with high Dex (16) and at least average Con and Int, as well as multiple Hit Dice (2d6(7)), and you give it Pack Tactics, Nimble Escape, Fighting Styles (Archery and Close-Quarters Shooting), put it in studded leather, give it a shortbow, and coat the arrows in giant poisonous snake venom, it's CR 4! If you put the PCs in a small tunnel with very thin walls, have these creatures shooting through arrow slits 5' from the party, have them have the tunnel over the PCs' heads rigged to fall down if the walls are removed and, of course, have a portcullis slam down behind the PCs, trapping them inside. . .
In my world, those are Greater Kobolds; they have their own culture and their own language, and some of the best works of military strategy are written in Kobold.
My brother played a fight with cultists and 2 flying snakes, by the book it was fair, but flying snakes would be Cr 1/2 monsters if built from DM's guide rules. Plus, he wasn't even using flyby.
As a new DM, (like, really new) this is making me rethink the starter kit adventure I'm running. I've not been playing the goblins to their full potential, allowing them to basically be dumb fodder for the party. Hide as a bonus action is definitely something I'm going to use. The party is currently working through some of the side-quests in the campaign, and I'm thinking a goblin ambush on the wooded trail is in their immediate future! Thanks for calling attention to the potential of goblins, OP!
Also, I think goblins are the low-level challenge to verify the group work of a party. Scouting, stealth and perception are key to defeat goblins without significant risks.
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Goblins.
Every adventurer has likely partaken in the death of at least half a dozen of these creatures in their career, usually very early on. However I think DMs tend to underplay the dangers of these crafty bad guys. For example in sunless citadel, they have a setup with an easy method of retreat, into another area with goblins. After the first goblin was near instantly slain, his partner dashed off, warning the next room. Because of their bonus action hide, the old goblin, and his new friends were all able to both hide, and ready an attack against the first target they see, in a single turn.
Unfortunately, the brave paladin charging after the one goblin wasn't ready for 3 shots with advantage and 1 without (bad stealth roll) and took a quick nap as soon as he rounded the corner. Needless to say, when the last goblin from that pack ran away, the adventurers were much more cautious and planned in their pursuit of the goblin.
Remember goblins have 10 INT, they are just as smart as the average human.
EDIT: Replaced a needless to say with Unfortunately because it bothered me.
Indeed. I try to avoid them at level 1.
Thank you! I enjoyed the perspective/attention towards goblins. I know I have used them far too often as fodder before or during encounters with 'more important' enemies. Hopefully, DMs will use this as inspiration to get a touch more crafty when incorporating goblin mechanics into their future sessions.
Awesome.
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D&D Beyond FoundersYup, they can be nasty. I ran a wilderness encounter that really pushed a group to the limits.
8 goblins, all spread out, armed with shortbows. The goblins can not only perform the usual harassment that you would expect from archers, but it's worse.
For each goblin's turn, it moves out from behind it's full cover, makes a ranged attack against a player character, then moves back behind the cover and HIDES.
This means that, even if a party member charges the goblin's position, there's a reasonable chance they won't event see the goblin to be able to do anything about it.
It was a bit of a lesson for the group in using readied actions, which I explained to them, when they asked how they could "go on overwatch for goblins"
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
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D&D Beyond FoundersPun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I was once in a party that was decimated by a band of kobolds with maltov cocktails :(
I have seen goblins decimate a 10th level party. Range attacks,, stealth, hide as a bonus action, able to fit through small tunnels your normal PC can't pack tactics, use of traps, and breed like crazy.
Smart Goblins always attack from multiple directions, use sniper tactics (shoot, hide, move, repeat). And this means they are hard to catch all of them in an AoE.
There is a reason smart Hobgoblin Warlords use the goblins as skirmish and ambush troops.
The internet is full of horror stories from a goblin TPK.
--
DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Bran -- Human Wizard - RoT
Making D&D mistakes and having fun since 1977!
I had a group of 3 level 6 adventures stop in fear at a bridge from 4 goblins. Goblins are nasty creatures. They excel at making traps and setting up some amazing ambushes. Range attacks from hidden locations can cause some serious damage to any group of unwary travelers. A few goblins can harass a group for a while. No long rest for you.
Every mountain pass puts my players on edge because of one story that got around of the group that came close to a TPK from just a few of these nasty creatures.
JT " You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Have you ever seen just one goblin? They almost never wander around alone, they always have friends with them and a large enough group of goblins will make any party's life miserable. Even only one or two goblins are next to impossible to find and catch if they decide to play "tag".
Professional computer geek
Yeah 5E goblins can be a handful ... down right deadly with the application of good small unit tactics. >:)
Yep. The beginner box adventure ended for my group with a TPK at the goblin cave.
The rogue was spotted by the guards, and got nailed with two crits. The fighter's torch triggered the first flood, and then he *yelled* at the goblin on the bridge triggering the second, which washed his unconscious body out of the cave. The archer and wizard were chewed to pieces by the wolves in the right-hand chamber.
Ok, technically it wasn't a TPK. The wizard survived with 2 HP and (at least theoretically) dragged his unconscious companions to safety.
But that was a *small* group of moderately prepared goblins.
Robert? Is that you?!?
If you have a small creature with high Dex (16) and at least average Con and Int, as well as multiple Hit Dice (2d6(7)), and you give it Pack Tactics, Nimble Escape, Fighting Styles (Archery and Close-Quarters Shooting), put it in studded leather, give it a shortbow, and coat the arrows in giant poisonous snake venom, it's CR 4! If you put the PCs in a small tunnel with very thin walls, have these creatures shooting through arrow slits 5' from the party, have them have the tunnel over the PCs' heads rigged to fall down if the walls are removed and, of course, have a portcullis slam down behind the PCs, trapping them inside. . .
In my world, those are Greater Kobolds; they have their own culture and their own language, and some of the best works of military strategy are written in Kobold.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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My brother played a fight with cultists and 2 flying snakes, by the book it was fair, but flying snakes would be Cr 1/2 monsters if built from DM's guide rules. Plus, he wasn't even using flyby.
Post under the same name at Giant in the Playground, and rarely here.
As a new DM, (like, really new) this is making me rethink the starter kit adventure I'm running. I've not been playing the goblins to their full potential, allowing them to basically be dumb fodder for the party. Hide as a bonus action is definitely something I'm going to use. The party is currently working through some of the side-quests in the campaign, and I'm thinking a goblin ambush on the wooded trail is in their immediate future! Thanks for calling attention to the potential of goblins, OP!
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Yeah, goblins are nasty. Don't forget that there are always a lot of them too!
Professional computer geek
Also, I think goblins are the low-level challenge to verify the group work of a party. Scouting, stealth and perception are key to defeat goblins without significant risks.