So i just hit arcane trickster on my rogue and i'm trying to figure out what spells to pick when i come across Find Familiar which allows me to summon a spirit that takes the form of an animal, one of which is a poisonous snake. Now obviously a poisonous snake produces venom, the poisonous snakes attack even does 2 d4 of poison damage if it hits so my question is, would i be able to milk my familiar's fangs for venom or is that going a bit too far for dnd?
RAW there isn't really anything on it. At best access to a snake familiar and a poisoners kit let's you make Basic Poison, but that's 50 gold and 5 days to produce a single vial using down time activity.
You'd really have to talk to your GM about it to get anything more interesting.
Personally I recommend.
You get Mage Hand atuomagically, I recommend Minor Illusion as a 2nd cantrip. After that either Mold Earth or something utility.
You get 3 spells known and two can be not Enchanment or Illusion. I recommend Shield or Absord Elements. They will save your life. If you want more like Find Familiar then take Magic Iniitite Wizard. That will get you 2 more cantrips and another spell known and spell per day.
Honestly owl is hands down the best familiar, and can help you get Advantage in combat consistently which is going to be way more damage then a little poison.
it was just something that popped into my mind as i was browsing the spells, truth be told i was thinking of getting find familiar because my character is an Air Genasi and our campaign seems to have a ton of dark places which has been pretty difficult for my non-darkvision but still can't hold a torch because she wants to be stealthy character and since i get to see and hear what my familiar sees i was thinking of grabbing a rat so it could do some of my scouting for me since rats are probably also usually overlooked in most places that are dank and dark. I am curious though of how the owl gets you advantage in combat, could you please elaborate?
as for the spells i've chosen so far, cantrips are mage hand because i have to, minor illusion because that's too good to pass up, and prestidigitation because it can do so many fun things. for my first level spells i've chosen sleep, silent image and was in the middle of considering find familiar.
caveat emptor: this is all my personal opinion, but anything is superseded by Rule of Cool and consideration for character.
There owl familiar has a special ability called FlyBy which let's it leave melee without taking AoO. Since familiars have 1 hp, harsh language can kill them.
Familiars can do any action in combat except Attack. This means one of thier most useful actions is combat is the Help action. Which gives 1 person Advantage in their next attack, for a rogue with sneak attack and 1 attack a round that's a huge bonus. This does occasionally draw aggro to the familiar but they are rarely quiet attacking and cost 10 gold and 1 hour to replace. Also having Fly is very important because with a move of 60' the owl can be 25' in the air, dive bomb the target and fly up, this keeps it out of most AoE spells! So far in all my games I've only last my familiars less then half a dozen times. Usually it was too a fireball.
caveat emptor: this is all my personal opinion, but anything is superseded by Rule of Cool and consideration for character.
There owl familiar has a special ability called FlyBy which let's it leave melee without taking AoO. Since familiars have 1 hp, harsh language can kill them.
Familiars can do any action in combat except Attack. This means one of thier most useful actions is combat is the Help action. Which gives 1 person Advantage in their next attack, for a rogue with sneak attack and 1 attack a round that's a huge bonus. This does occasionally draw aggro to the familiar but they are rarely quiet attacking and cost 10 gold and 1 hour to replace. Also having Fly is very important because with a move of 60' the owl can be 25' in the air, dive bomb the target and fly up, this keeps it out of most AoE spells! So far in all my games I've only last my familiars less then half a dozen times. Usually it was too a fireball.
If you want to make the Owl a little more interesting - cast Dragon's Breath on it - it can then do a cone breath attack each round before flying out of range again. Who doesn't want a fire breathing Owl as a pet?
Absolutely, you can milk your snake. You can even count on it to behave.
Now the real question/problem: is it as potent when applied to the edge of a weapon as it is when injected by a snakes fangs? No. To get that effect you'd have to get a syringe and use it as an improvised weapon. If you apply it to your weapon I would give you some benefit, I would model that off other options and consider the cost. I'd probably let you apply it as an action and add 1d4 poison damage to the next hit within the next minute. Probably not as good as your hope.
But of course, what happens in your story with your DM is a whole other story. And your story is what it's all about.
As for find familiar in general. It's on a very narrow list for the best level-1 spells.
well snake venom could be used for more than just coating your weapons, what if i pour it into someone's drink and then mask any taste it might have with prestidigitation? or heck if you put it that way there are blowdarts in this game which were made specifically so that they could inject poison into their targets, just saying, if i could have access to free poison it'd be fairly convenient.
as for find familiar in general, yes it's not exactly the best lvl 1 spell, but this is my first character and i didn't exactly optimise her when i built her so her int is actually pretty low for arcane trickster, if i got any of the damage spells where the opponent has to make a save it they'd only have to hit 11, and i don't like the fact that it's a 50% chance to hit that uses a spell slot. on the other hand if i use find familiar, i can do what fullmetal bunny suggested and pick the owl which will give me advantage on basically all my attacks which gets my sneak attack in, plus that 120 darkvision it has is super convenient for me who is running a character with no darkvision.
The Basic Rules describe the poisons as each falling into one of four categories, the ability to use a poison as another type is not explicitly forbidden, but it's implied. For instance an ingested poison certainly wouldn't be as effective as a contact poison.
That said, it's fine to theme your Sneak Attack damage as poison, even if it isn't.
For example the CR8 Assassin NPC has the same effective sneak attack as a lvl 8 Rogue. It's damage is actually inferior to a rogue's because a Con Save will half it!
That said for story purposes, when you describe getting Sneak Attack off, you could play up the theme that your character uses toxins. The damage itself doesn't change, just how
The main problem is that DnD 5e doesn't treat "spend more for extra damage" well, because... well. For some reason they threw that out of previous editions. That said, I did "invent" the "Holy Hand Grenade of Faerun". If I remember correctly it heald 1 cubic foot or 30 lbs of gear. So 600 gold of Alchemist Fire later, you have a backpack that if damaged deals 30d6 fire.
the most worthwhile familiar to harvest the venom from would be a warlock's psuedo-dragon familiar or maybe an imp if I remember correctly, not for the effectiveness of the venom itself, but because of the value of the venom, turns any in-game downtime into pure profit if you're able to milk it, but generally a good DM will find some way to stop your party from abusing it.
the most worthwhile familiar to harvest the venom from would be a warlock's psuedo-dragon familiar or maybe an imp if I remember correctly, not for the effectiveness of the venom itself, but because of the value of the venom, turns any in-game downtime into pure profit if you're able to milk it, but generally a good DM will find some way to stop your party from abusing it.
I think the easiest thing is "who is buying this?" You say "pure profit", but who is going to be buying large quantities of imp poison?
If you want to make the Owl a little more interesting - cast Dragon's Breath on it - it can then do a cone breath attack each round before flying out of range again. Who doesn't want a fire breathing Owl as a pet?
The first time this happened at our table, we all thought it was hilarious. The second time it happened, we all banned it. It is absolutely allowed by the rules as written and I believe it absolutely violates the spirit of what a (warlock notwithstanding) familiar is not meant to do.
At my table, I have ruled that the familiar from "find familiar" does not produce venom, since it is a spirit, only taking the form of a creature and not the actual creature itself... so it doesn't get any of those special abilities. And yes, I've ruled the same thing for "conjure animals".
Way too much of this stuff now a days... especially with the younger crowd. So we go over all of this stuff on day 1.
The Ranger in my group cast Conjure Woodland Beings to get a herd of goats for his party to milk. I thought it was hilarious and a really clever use of that spell, so I let him do it. However he had to roll to see how many of the goats were female, and because they're technically fey creatures all the milk tasted vaguely like strawberries.
My wizard has a familiar and because it is also considered a celestial I give it a lot more personality and intelligence then the normal owl stats. Which makes conversations between the two possible and quite fun, has helped create a bond between them that is different then the Ranger's animal companion but also interesting. It also ups the stakes when the familiar is in danger. His familiar being killed in combat is now as serious as any of the party members. So if he turned him into a snake to milk for venom I'd totally let him do it but the familiar would COMPLAIN FOR DAYS.
At my table, I have ruled that the familiar from "find familiar" does not produce venom, since it is a spirit, only taking the form of a creature and not the actual creature itself... so it doesn't get any of those special abilities.
Its true nature might be a spirit, but while it's taking the form of a creature it has all of the statistics of that creature other than its type, which makes it identical to a real instance of that creature in just about every way except how it interacts with certain spells.
At my table, I have ruled that the familiar from "find familiar" does not produce venom, since it is a spirit, only taking the form of a creature and not the actual creature itself... so it doesn't get any of those special abilities.
Its true nature might be a spirit, but while it's taking the form of a creature it has all of the statistics of that creature other than its type, which makes it identical to a real instance of that creature in just about every way except how it interacts with certain spells.
That's why I said, "at my table". These are rules we all agreed upon. We are mostly older people from the ad&d days and this is the way we like it. I was just offering a different perspective, not asking for someone to show me how we are wrong (no offense, that's how the internet seems these days).
Like so many things it comes down to "Ask your DM." I like the idea. But I could see a DM limiting the amount of poison you can extract or just not allowing it under the idea that maybe it would need refrigeration to last.
as a way to make money its not bad. Making it costs 50 but you can sell it for 100.
The book guidelines are that gear can be sold by players at half the list price, so by those guidelines you will only break even crafting and selling something. D&D is designed as an adventure game, not a trade sim game, so it's not set up to support crafting as a viable revenue stream.
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So i just hit arcane trickster on my rogue and i'm trying to figure out what spells to pick when i come across Find Familiar which allows me to summon a spirit that takes the form of an animal, one of which is a poisonous snake. Now obviously a poisonous snake produces venom, the poisonous snakes attack even does 2 d4 of poison damage if it hits so my question is, would i be able to milk my familiar's fangs for venom or is that going a bit too far for dnd?
RAW there isn't really anything on it. At best access to a snake familiar and a poisoners kit let's you make Basic Poison, but that's 50 gold and 5 days to produce a single vial using down time activity.
You'd really have to talk to your GM about it to get anything more interesting.
Personally I recommend.
You get Mage Hand atuomagically, I recommend Minor Illusion as a 2nd cantrip. After that either Mold Earth or something utility.
You get 3 spells known and two can be not Enchanment or Illusion. I recommend Shield or Absord Elements. They will save your life. If you want more like Find Familiar then take Magic Iniitite Wizard. That will get you 2 more cantrips and another spell known and spell per day.
Honestly owl is hands down the best familiar, and can help you get Advantage in combat consistently which is going to be way more damage then a little poison.
it was just something that popped into my mind as i was browsing the spells, truth be told i was thinking of getting find familiar because my character is an Air Genasi and our campaign seems to have a ton of dark places which has been pretty difficult for my non-darkvision but still can't hold a torch because she wants to be stealthy character and since i get to see and hear what my familiar sees i was thinking of grabbing a rat so it could do some of my scouting for me since rats are probably also usually overlooked in most places that are dank and dark. I am curious though of how the owl gets you advantage in combat, could you please elaborate?
as for the spells i've chosen so far, cantrips are mage hand because i have to, minor illusion because that's too good to pass up, and prestidigitation because it can do so many fun things. for my first level spells i've chosen sleep, silent image and was in the middle of considering find familiar.
Hi, glad to have you.
Yes I can elaborate. i recommend you check this thread out, it's 4 pages long and will answer a lot of questions. https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/wizard/10449-choice-of-familiar
I also had the same question a long time ago and posted it here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/rogue/431-arcane-trickster-poison-use
caveat emptor: this is all my personal opinion, but anything is superseded by Rule of Cool and consideration for character.
There owl familiar has a special ability called FlyBy which let's it leave melee without taking AoO. Since familiars have 1 hp, harsh language can kill them.
Familiars can do any action in combat except Attack. This means one of thier most useful actions is combat is the Help action. Which gives 1 person Advantage in their next attack, for a rogue with sneak attack and 1 attack a round that's a huge bonus. This does occasionally draw aggro to the familiar but they are rarely quiet attacking and cost 10 gold and 1 hour to replace. Also having Fly is very important because with a move of 60' the owl can be 25' in the air, dive bomb the target and fly up, this keeps it out of most AoE spells! So far in all my games I've only last my familiars less then half a dozen times. Usually it was too a fireball.
If you want to make the Owl a little more interesting - cast Dragon's Breath on it - it can then do a cone breath attack each round before flying out of range again. Who doesn't want a fire breathing Owl as a pet?
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Here's how I'd rule:
Absolutely, you can milk your snake. You can even count on it to behave.
Now the real question/problem: is it as potent when applied to the edge of a weapon as it is when injected by a snakes fangs? No. To get that effect you'd have to get a syringe and use it as an improvised weapon. If you apply it to your weapon I would give you some benefit, I would model that off other options and consider the cost. I'd probably let you apply it as an action and add 1d4 poison damage to the next hit within the next minute. Probably not as good as your hope.
But of course, what happens in your story with your DM is a whole other story. And your story is what it's all about.
As for find familiar in general. It's on a very narrow list for the best level-1 spells.
Extended Signature
well snake venom could be used for more than just coating your weapons, what if i pour it into someone's drink and then mask any taste it might have with prestidigitation? or heck if you put it that way there are blowdarts in this game which were made specifically so that they could inject poison into their targets, just saying, if i could have access to free poison it'd be fairly convenient.
as for find familiar in general, yes it's not exactly the best lvl 1 spell, but this is my first character and i didn't exactly optimise her when i built her so her int is actually pretty low for arcane trickster, if i got any of the damage spells where the opponent has to make a save it they'd only have to hit 11, and i don't like the fact that it's a 50% chance to hit that uses a spell slot. on the other hand if i use find familiar, i can do what fullmetal bunny suggested and pick the owl which will give me advantage on basically all my attacks which gets my sneak attack in, plus that 120 darkvision it has is super convenient for me who is running a character with no darkvision.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/running-the-game#Poisons
The Basic Rules describe the poisons as each falling into one of four categories, the ability to use a poison as another type is not explicitly forbidden, but it's implied. For instance an ingested poison certainly wouldn't be as effective as a contact poison.
Extended Signature
That said, it's fine to theme your Sneak Attack damage as poison, even if it isn't.
For example the CR8 Assassin NPC has the same effective sneak attack as a lvl 8 Rogue. It's damage is actually inferior to a rogue's because a Con Save will half it!
That said for story purposes, when you describe getting Sneak Attack off, you could play up the theme that your character uses toxins. The damage itself doesn't change, just how
The main problem is that DnD 5e doesn't treat "spend more for extra damage" well, because... well. For some reason they threw that out of previous editions. That said, I did "invent" the "Holy Hand Grenade of Faerun". If I remember correctly it heald 1 cubic foot or 30 lbs of gear. So 600 gold of Alchemist Fire later, you have a backpack that if damaged deals 30d6 fire.
the most worthwhile familiar to harvest the venom from would be a warlock's psuedo-dragon familiar or maybe an imp if I remember correctly, not for the effectiveness of the venom itself, but because of the value of the venom, turns any in-game downtime into pure profit if you're able to milk it, but generally a good DM will find some way to stop your party from abusing it.
I think the easiest thing is "who is buying this?"
You say "pure profit", but who is going to be buying large quantities of imp poison?
The first time this happened at our table, we all thought it was hilarious. The second time it happened, we all banned it. It is absolutely allowed by the rules as written and I believe it absolutely violates the spirit of what a (warlock notwithstanding) familiar is not meant to do.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
At my table, I have ruled that the familiar from "find familiar" does not produce venom, since it is a spirit, only taking the form of a creature and not the actual creature itself... so it doesn't get any of those special abilities.
And yes, I've ruled the same thing for "conjure animals".
Way too much of this stuff now a days... especially with the younger crowd. So we go over all of this stuff on day 1.
...cryptographic randomness!
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InsiderThe Ranger in my group cast Conjure Woodland Beings to get a herd of goats for his party to milk. I thought it was hilarious and a really clever use of that spell, so I let him do it. However he had to roll to see how many of the goats were female, and because they're technically fey creatures all the milk tasted vaguely like strawberries.
My wizard has a familiar and because it is also considered a celestial I give it a lot more personality and intelligence then the normal owl stats. Which makes conversations between the two possible and quite fun, has helped create a bond between them that is different then the Ranger's animal companion but also interesting. It also ups the stakes when the familiar is in danger. His familiar being killed in combat is now as serious as any of the party members. So if he turned him into a snake to milk for venom I'd totally let him do it but the familiar would COMPLAIN FOR DAYS.
Sometimes the RP is totally worth it. :D
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
Its true nature might be a spirit, but while it's taking the form of a creature it has all of the statistics of that creature other than its type, which makes it identical to a real instance of that creature in just about every way except how it interacts with certain spells.
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That's why I said, "at my table".
These are rules we all agreed upon. We are mostly older people from the ad&d days and this is the way we like it. I was just offering a different perspective, not asking for someone to show me how we are wrong (no offense, that's how the internet seems these days).
...cryptographic randomness!
Like so many things it comes down to "Ask your DM." I like the idea. But I could see a DM limiting the amount of poison you can extract or just not allowing it under the idea that maybe it would need refrigeration to last.
as a way to make money its not bad. Making it costs 50 but you can sell it for 100.
The book guidelines are that gear can be sold by players at half the list price, so by those guidelines you will only break even crafting and selling something. D&D is designed as an adventure game, not a trade sim game, so it's not set up to support crafting as a viable revenue stream.