Looking for Ideas for a melee sorcerer build. Actually, more of a gish type, really. Sorcerer only. thought about using shadow blade or flame blade for the weapon. What spells and feats would you use to be able to go toe to toe with many of the monsters in 5.24? Starting from level 1.
Firstly, I will say that ruling out all multiclassing is going to make this a tough niche to fill. Sorcerers won't have a reliable way to make more that one attack per turn, but there are a couple things you can do to get around that. Here are some suggestions that might help maximize the build:
Be a Draconic Sorcerer for the extra AC and HP. At 20 Dexterity & Charisma, you would have a solid 20 AC baseline. If you can get a couple magic item or two like a [magicItems]Cloak of Protection[/magicIems], you should be fine with the enemies taking a few swings at you.
Maximize Dexterity first over Charisma for better attacking. This will let you use a light finesse weapon in one hand and Shadow Blade in the other (note that Shadow Blade uses Dexterity or Strength to attack where Flame Blade using your Charisma).
In combat, you can use your action to Attack with your Shadow Blade, then quicken Booming Blade to hit with your physical weapon as a bonus action. Sadly, you can't use Shadow Blade with the cantrip because it require an actual weapon with a monetary value of 1sp+. If you want to conserve resources, you could also forgo Booming Blade to simply make an attack with your weapon using you bonus action thanks to the Light property on Shadow Blade
As far as feats go, I would look at Defensive Duelist for an at-will AC boost against melee attacks without using spell slots on Shield. Warcaster would of course be a great fit to make sure your don't lose your Shadow Blade. The last one I would consider is Rune Shaper to get ability to cast the spell Armor of Agathys. The temp HP from the spell scales with the spell slot used, and is a good way to deal damage back at the enemy who hits you.
Alternative Idea: Instead of a Draconic Sorcerer using Shadow Blade and Booming Blade, be a Divine Soul Sorcerer, then use True Striketo attack with your weapon while concentrating and using your bonus action on [spells]Spiritual Weapon[spells]. In this case, you would be Charisma-based, and would have less AC/HP, but it could still be a viable alternative with the scaling from the spells.
For a really gish build, make sure your ability to be in melee isn't dependent on spell slots, or you'll eventually have to retreat. Draconic Sorcery gives you the defensive features needed automatically, so let's look at how to be consistently useful in melee.
The easiest way for any caster to excel in melee is to start with Shillelagh (taking Magic Initiate: Druid at level 4 feat, with the human feat, or through the Guide background) to get a bonus cantrip and Cure Wounds or Healing Word, which can all use your CHA modifier.This gives you access to an excellent melee weapon at level 1 which deals magical damage, and a healing spell to save you or a friend in a pinch.
Club for 2x attacks/turn.
A club is a light weapon even with Shillelagh. You can use the light property without any class features, so Shadow Blade works with Shillelagh to give you 2x attacks if you're really wanting extra attacks, but then you don't get your bonus action for spells.
True Strike for big hits.
If you want to cast spells and attack on your turn, you can use True Strike to double-dip damage. Starting at level 5, the combination of Shillelagh and True Strike outstrips Shadow Blade and Flame Blade in terms of base damage. (1d10+CHA+2d6) This means you don't have to keep concentration on a Blade spell. Your minimum damage goes from 2+DEX psychic (shadow) or 3 Fire (flame) to 3+CHA Force and Radiant damage.
Because True Strike is a Sorcerer Cantrip, Innate Sorcery buffs its attacks, so that feature can be used to pump up your hits. All this keeps you using cantrips for your bread-and-butter damage. (Due to True Strike being Radiant and Shillelagh being Force, your Elemental Affinity won't boost these attacks, but Shillelagh replaces that feature, so you don't lose any damage).
All your spell slots are still there to get Gishy. Quicken spells to deal a crap ton of damage, healing, or utility. Because you got a healing spell from Magic Initiate: Druid, you never need to worry about a healer being nearby or healing someone else. If you'd rather focus on pure survivability, you have access to the best 3 defensive spells: Misty Step, Mirror Image, and Blur. (Only Blur needs Concentration, and you'll be a nightmare to hit).
Your party will be glad you're in melee. Your melee hits will matter, and so will your spells. If you take Spare the Dying as your other cantrip from Magic Initiate, you'll have more options to support other melee combatants at critical times.
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"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol "Failure means you've tried." -RB
Getting 2 attacks per turn RAW is messy but a lot of DMs will house rule something easier
Shilelagh has V/S components so unless you have warcaster you need a hand free to cast it therefore it has to be before you cast shadow blade (or at least when it is not in your hand, for example because you threw it the previous turn)
Shillelagh only works on clubs and quarterstaff so attacks with a flame blade have to be using dex (or str), Rory probably meant this but when I first read through it I thought he was saying you could cast shillelagh on a flame blade
While holding the flame blade and a club you will not be able to cast spells with material components because you do not have a free can to hold the material component or your spell focus. (This also applies if you have warcaster)
Getting 2 attacks per turn RAW is messy but a lot of DMs will house rule something easier
Shilelagh has V/S components so unless you have warcaster you need a hand free to cast it therefore it has to be before you cast shadow blade (or at least when it is not in your hand, for example because you threw it the previous turn)
Shillelagh only works on clubs and quarterstaff so attacks with a flame blade have to be using dex (or str), Rory probably meant this but when I first read through it I thought he was saying you could cast shillelagh on a flame blade
While holding the flame blade and a club you will not be able to cast spells with material components because you do not have a free can to hold the material component or your spell focus. (This also applies if you have warcaster)
Yeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason. True Strike and Shillelagh both have Somatic components, as do a huge number of Sorcerer spells, so it's better to just skip the light weapon interaction and double down with True Strike. If you so take War Caster, you're really getting the ability to cast True Strike as a reaction, double-dipping on the damage you can deal as a Reaction in melee.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol "Failure means you've tried." -RB
If you want to do a pure gish sorcerer, you'll need to sacrifice spell power to do so. Here's one option:
Point Buy: STR 8 | DEX 15 +1 | CON 15 | INT 8 | WIS 8 | CHA 15+2 Custom Background : +1 DEX, +2 CHA, Origin Feat: Tough (+2 HP) Species: Orc or Goblin - Orc gives you by far the best survivability bonuses of any species if you want to be more of a tank, whereas Goblin enables a hit-and-run playstyle similar to a rogue.
Level 1: Sorcerer Cantrips: Blade Ward, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Green Flame Blade (if available) + whichever utility spells you want. Spells: Mage Armour, Shield. Equipment: Shortbow + 2 Handaxes. Playstyle : cast Mage Armour at the start of each adventuring day (AC = 16), then alternate between True Strike + Shortbow + Blade Ward / Adrenaline Rush, or dual wielding handaxes.
Level 3: Draconic Sorcerer : Retrain your Mage Armour spell, Take Shadow Blade to pair with your Handaxe.
Level 4: Warcaster - brings your CHA up to 18, and allows you to cast True Strike as your AoO
Level 6: Choose Fire for your Elemental Affinity to allow you to add your CHA to the extra damage with Green Flame Blade, you should now be using GFB as your primary attack and can forget about Shadow Blade unless your DM allows it to combo with GFB. True Strike + Shortbow remains your long-range option.
Level 8: Take +2 DEX, boosting your weapon attacks.
Level 12 & 16 ASIs are spend maxing out your DEX and CHA.
Spell Choice Notes: Once you reach level 5, you'll start off combat with Blade Ward (Action) + Quickened Concentration spell (BA), then moving into melee for subsequent turns. Appropriate concentration spells are Flaming Sphere (benefits from your Elemental Affinity), Enlarge (extra damage to your weapon attacks), Blur, Ashardalon's Stride, Haste, Minute Meteors, Storm Sphere, or Bigby's Hand.
Yeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason.
Unlikely to apply to a sorcerer but also means you can not use it on a sword and board build unless one can act as a spell focus. I did have a concept of a Paladin attacking with Charisma via Shillelegh but it didn't work because you can not cast it while wielding a shield.
Getting 2 attacks per turn RAW is messy but a lot of DMs will house rule something easier
Shilelagh has V/S components so unless you have warcaster you need a hand free to cast it therefore it has to be before you cast shadow blade (or at least when it is not in your hand, for example because you threw it the previous turn)
Shillelagh only works on clubs and quarterstaff so attacks with a flame blade have to be using dex (or str), Rory probably meant this but when I first read through it I thought he was saying you could cast shillelagh on a flame blade
While holding the flame blade and a club you will not be able to cast spells with material components because you do not have a free can to hold the material component or your spell focus. (This also applies if you have warcaster)
Yeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason. True Strike and Shillelagh both have Somatic components, as do a huge number of Sorcerer spells, so it's better to just skip the light weapon interaction and double down with True Strike. If you so take War Caster, you're really getting the ability to cast True Strike as a reaction, double-dipping on the damage you can deal as a Reaction in melee.
May not be worth the Metamagic Choice and Sorcery Point costs, but Subtle Spell could route around the Somatic Components for Shillelagh.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Yeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason.
Unlikely to apply to a sorcerer but also means you can not use it on a sword and board build unless one can act as a spell focus. I did have a concept of a Paladin attacking with Charisma via Shillelegh but it didn't work because you can not cast it while wielding a shield.
There’s always Warcaster. I mean, you have to wait until level 4 to get it, but still…
Yeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason.
Unlikely to apply to a sorcerer but also means you can not use it on a sword and board build unless one can act as a spell focus. I did have a concept of a Paladin attacking with Charisma via Shillelegh but it didn't work because you can not cast it while wielding a shield.
There’s always Warcaster. I mean, you have to wait until level 4 to get it, but still…
If the Shillelagh in question is a quarterstaff, it counts as a spell focus. That means it works for Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard, and Warlock.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol "Failure means you've tried." -RB
Yeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason.
Unlikely to apply to a sorcerer but also means you can not use it on a sword and board build unless one can act as a spell focus. I did have a concept of a Paladin attacking with Charisma via Shillelegh but it didn't work because you can not cast it while wielding a shield.
There’s always Warcaster. I mean, you have to wait until level 4 to get it, but still…
If the Shillelagh in question is a quarterstaff, it counts as a spell focus. That means it works for Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard, and Warlock.
There's a super-annoying bit of Rules-As-Written pedantry, though: The Spell Focus feature of the Spellcasting feature for all of those listed classes (or subclasses in the case of the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster) only works for the spells that belong to those individual Classes. An example from the Sorcerer Class Features in the 2024 Free Rules Follows:
Spellcasting Focus. You can use an Arcane Focus as a Spellcasting Focus for your Sorcerer spells.
Unless you actually have levels in Druid (or some other feature that makes Shillelagh one of your Class spells, such as obtaining it through the 2024 Pact of the Tome Warlock Invocation, or the Ranger's Druidic Warrior Fighting Style), you can't use a Spell Focus to cast it.. If you obtain it from Magic Initiate (Druid), even though you have it always-prepared, it's still a Druid Spell.
That said, a Wooden Staff Druidic Focus or Arcane Focus can be used as a Quarterstaff, but is not the same as a mundane Quarterstaff; presumably there's some sort of extra crafting that goes into the focuses that makes them worth 25 times as much.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Looking for Ideas for a melee sorcerer build. Actually, more of a gish type, really. Sorcerer only. thought about using shadow blade or flame blade for the weapon. What spells and feats would you use to be able to go toe to toe with many of the monsters in 5.24? Starting from level 1.
Firstly, I will say that ruling out all multiclassing is going to make this a tough niche to fill. Sorcerers won't have a reliable way to make more that one attack per turn, but there are a couple things you can do to get around that. Here are some suggestions that might help maximize the build:
Be a Draconic Sorcerer for the extra AC and HP. At 20 Dexterity & Charisma, you would have a solid 20 AC baseline. If you can get a couple magic item or two like a [magicItems]Cloak of Protection[/magicIems], you should be fine with the enemies taking a few swings at you.
Maximize Dexterity first over Charisma for better attacking. This will let you use a light finesse weapon in one hand and Shadow Blade in the other (note that Shadow Blade uses Dexterity or Strength to attack where Flame Blade using your Charisma).
Pick Booming Blade for an attack cantrip, but Green-Flame Blade would work as well. Take both if you are feeling spicy
Take spells like Shield, Absorb Elements, Mirror Image, and Blink for better survivability.
In combat, you can use your action to Attack with your Shadow Blade, then quicken Booming Blade to hit with your physical weapon as a bonus action. Sadly, you can't use Shadow Blade with the cantrip because it require an actual weapon with a monetary value of 1sp+. If you want to conserve resources, you could also forgo Booming Blade to simply make an attack with your weapon using you bonus action thanks to the Light property on Shadow Blade
As far as feats go, I would look at Defensive Duelist for an at-will AC boost against melee attacks without using spell slots on Shield. Warcaster would of course be a great fit to make sure your don't lose your Shadow Blade. The last one I would consider is Rune Shaper to get ability to cast the spell Armor of Agathys. The temp HP from the spell scales with the spell slot used, and is a good way to deal damage back at the enemy who hits you.
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Alternative Idea: Instead of a Draconic Sorcerer using Shadow Blade and Booming Blade, be a Divine Soul Sorcerer, then use True Striketo attack with your weapon while concentrating and using your bonus action on [spells]Spiritual Weapon[spells]. In this case, you would be Charisma-based, and would have less AC/HP, but it could still be a viable alternative with the scaling from the spells.
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InsiderFor a really gish build, make sure your ability to be in melee isn't dependent on spell slots, or you'll eventually have to retreat. Draconic Sorcery gives you the defensive features needed automatically, so let's look at how to be consistently useful in melee.
The easiest way for any caster to excel in melee is to start with Shillelagh (taking Magic Initiate: Druid at level 4 feat, with the human feat, or through the Guide background) to get a bonus cantrip and Cure Wounds or Healing Word, which can all use your CHA modifier.This gives you access to an excellent melee weapon at level 1 which deals magical damage, and a healing spell to save you or a friend in a pinch.
Club for 2x attacks/turn.
A club is a light weapon even with Shillelagh. You can use the light property without any class features, so Shadow Blade works with Shillelagh to give you 2x attacks if you're really wanting extra attacks, but then you don't get your bonus action for spells.
True Strike for big hits.
If you want to cast spells and attack on your turn, you can use True Strike to double-dip damage. Starting at level 5, the combination of Shillelagh and True Strike outstrips Shadow Blade and Flame Blade in terms of base damage. (1d10+CHA+2d6) This means you don't have to keep concentration on a Blade spell. Your minimum damage goes from 2+DEX psychic (shadow) or 3 Fire (flame) to 3+CHA Force and Radiant damage.
Because True Strike is a Sorcerer Cantrip, Innate Sorcery buffs its attacks, so that feature can be used to pump up your hits. All this keeps you using cantrips for your bread-and-butter damage. (Due to True Strike being Radiant and Shillelagh being Force, your Elemental Affinity won't boost these attacks, but Shillelagh replaces that feature, so you don't lose any damage).
All your spell slots are still there to get Gishy. Quicken spells to deal a crap ton of damage, healing, or utility. Because you got a healing spell from Magic Initiate: Druid, you never need to worry about a healer being nearby or healing someone else. If you'd rather focus on pure survivability, you have access to the best 3 defensive spells: Misty Step, Mirror Image, and Blur. (Only Blur needs Concentration, and you'll be a nightmare to hit).
Your party will be glad you're in melee. Your melee hits will matter, and so will your spells. If you take Spare the Dying as your other cantrip from Magic Initiate, you'll have more options to support other melee combatants at critical times.
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol
"Failure means you've tried." -RB
Getting 2 attacks per turn RAW is messy but a lot of DMs will house rule something easier
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InsiderYeah, you do have to cast Shillelagh with a free hand, which isn't a problem unless you're determined to have two weapons as a caster for some reason. True Strike and Shillelagh both have Somatic components, as do a huge number of Sorcerer spells, so it's better to just skip the light weapon interaction and double down with True Strike. If you so take War Caster, you're really getting the ability to cast True Strike as a reaction, double-dipping on the damage you can deal as a Reaction in melee.
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol
"Failure means you've tried." -RB
If you want to do a pure gish sorcerer, you'll need to sacrifice spell power to do so. Here's one option:
Point Buy: STR 8 | DEX 15 +1 | CON 15 | INT 8 | WIS 8 | CHA 15+2
Custom Background : +1 DEX, +2 CHA, Origin Feat: Tough (+2 HP)
Species: Orc or Goblin - Orc gives you by far the best survivability bonuses of any species if you want to be more of a tank, whereas Goblin enables a hit-and-run playstyle similar to a rogue.
Level 1: Sorcerer
Cantrips: Blade Ward, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Green Flame Blade (if available) + whichever utility spells you want. Spells: Mage Armour, Shield.
Equipment: Shortbow + 2 Handaxes.
Playstyle : cast Mage Armour at the start of each adventuring day (AC = 16), then alternate between True Strike + Shortbow + Blade Ward / Adrenaline Rush, or dual wielding handaxes.
Level 2: Sorcerer, Metamagics: Quickened Spell, Extended Spell.
Level 3: Draconic Sorcerer : Retrain your Mage Armour spell, Take Shadow Blade to pair with your Handaxe.
Level 4: Warcaster - brings your CHA up to 18, and allows you to cast True Strike as your AoO
Level 6: Choose Fire for your Elemental Affinity to allow you to add your CHA to the extra damage with Green Flame Blade, you should now be using GFB as your primary attack and can forget about Shadow Blade unless your DM allows it to combo with GFB. True Strike + Shortbow remains your long-range option.
Level 8: Take +2 DEX, boosting your weapon attacks.
Level 12 & 16 ASIs are spend maxing out your DEX and CHA.
Spell Choice Notes: Once you reach level 5, you'll start off combat with Blade Ward (Action) + Quickened Concentration spell (BA), then moving into melee for subsequent turns. Appropriate concentration spells are Flaming Sphere (benefits from your Elemental Affinity), Enlarge (extra damage to your weapon attacks), Blur, Ashardalon's Stride, Haste, Minute Meteors, Storm Sphere, or Bigby's Hand.
Unlikely to apply to a sorcerer but also means you can not use it on a sword and board build unless one can act as a spell focus. I did have a concept of a Paladin attacking with Charisma via Shillelegh but it didn't work because you can not cast it while wielding a shield.
May not be worth the Metamagic Choice and Sorcery Point costs, but Subtle Spell could route around the Somatic Components for Shillelagh.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
There’s always Warcaster. I mean, you have to wait until level 4 to get it, but still…
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InsiderIf the Shillelagh in question is a quarterstaff, it counts as a spell focus. That means it works for Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard, and Warlock.
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol
"Failure means you've tried." -RB
There's a super-annoying bit of Rules-As-Written pedantry, though: The Spell Focus feature of the Spellcasting feature for all of those listed classes (or subclasses in the case of the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster) only works for the spells that belong to those individual Classes. An example from the Sorcerer Class Features in the 2024 Free Rules Follows:
Unless you actually have levels in Druid (or some other feature that makes Shillelagh one of your Class spells, such as obtaining it through the 2024 Pact of the Tome Warlock Invocation, or the Ranger's Druidic Warrior Fighting Style), you can't use a Spell Focus to cast it.. If you obtain it from Magic Initiate (Druid), even though you have it always-prepared, it's still a Druid Spell.
That said, a Wooden Staff Druidic Focus or Arcane Focus can be used as a Quarterstaff, but is not the same as a mundane Quarterstaff; presumably there's some sort of extra crafting that goes into the focuses that makes them worth 25 times as much.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage