EDIT TO ADD: folks need to calm down. If the rules come together in such a way that it allows insanely massive amounts of damage, maybe some erratta is needed to change the rules in the name of balance. But that doesnt mean you should grasp for rules that dont exist to try and explain this away. If the rules allow this, then some bad interpretation of a nonexistent rule doesnt actually get the rules back to a balanced solution. And if the rules have some flaw in them, its ok. You dont need to come running to defend them with religious fervor. The rules are NOT infallible and thats ok. END EDIT TO ADD
Level 2 artificer. Create infusions for alchemy jug and bag of holding. Every day, have jug produce a quart of oil, thats 2 pint flasks of oil, per day. Each flask can do 5 damage per turn for 2 turns. Each pint weighs a pound. 2 pounds of oil a day for 20 points of fire damage.
10 days of oil production from the alchemy jug will produce 20 flasks, which will do 100 fire damage per turn for 2 turns.
Oil costs 1 silver per pint. So 1 gold will get you 10 flasks of oil. Get as many as you can afford and can buy.
Store flasks in bag of holding.
Level 5 artificer, create homunculus servant. It is your delivery mechanism and possibly your detonator. It has an int and wis of 10, so its smart enough to operate semi-autononus. It has a fly speed of 30. And it is immune to exhaustion, meaning it could fly forever or hover above a target forever, or hunker down in some hidden spot and listen for your command to detonate 24/7. You have direct control of it with telekenisis if within a mile. Or create infusion for sending stones to get unlimited range and 25 words of instructions for how/when to attack.
Buy one flask of alchemists fire.
For oil, you can target the ground a creature is standing on. Have the homunculus turn the bag of holding inside out and dump all flasks of oil in one turn. On impact all oil flasks will shatter. When the vial of alchemist fire hits the ground it will shatter and ignite the oil.
500 pounds of oil would cost you 50 gold to purchas, would just fit in a bag of holding, and would do 2500 points of fire damage per turn, for 2 turns.
If homunculus can drop the oil from the air, the only thing you lose is the 25 gold it cost to buy one flask of alchemist fire.to ignite everything, and 50 gold to purchase the oil.
If the homunculus is destroyed in the fire, thats another 100gp to replace.
A barrel weighs 70 pounds and can carry 40 gallons of liquid. That would translate to 320 flasks (pints) (pounds) of oil.
When full, the barrel and oil will weigh 390 pounds and do 1600 fire damage a turn for 2 turns.
EDIT TO ADD:
barrel is so you can use thr bag of holding to store more than oil. Someone suggested that a standard barrel is too big to fit into mouth of bag of holding. If so, use carpentry tools to craft a crate that is 2ft x 2ft (2 ft square) and 4 feet deep.that is the max size single object that can fit into a bag of holding. Then build 4 of them for full volume. The weight of the crates will reduce the total amount of oil you can carry, but its an option to be able.to use your bag of holding for oil and other equipment.
Alternatively, if you dont need to store anything in bag of holding but oil, then you could just dump the oil directly into the bag. Rules say you can dump water into the bag without a container. So you should be able to dump other fluids, like oil.
“If multiple effects impose the same condition on you, each instance of the condition has its own duration, but the condition’s effects don’t get worse. Either you have a condition or you don’t. The Exhaustion condition is an exception; its effects get worse if you have the condition and receive it again.” - D&D Beyond Basic Rules
This doesn’t work at all, both in theory and practically. A [magic items]Bag of Holding[/magic items] has a size of 2 feet square and is 4 feet deep on the inside, because of how a barrel works, you cannot contain a barrel inside a bag of holding unless it is especially small. You are incapable of doing that much damage as stated above and that is just an insane waste of money, it works as a blunt damage option, but water is literally a better alternative in every way.
"This doesn’t work at all, both in theory and practically. A [magic items]Bag of Holding[/magic items] has a size of 2 feet square and is 4 feet deep on the inside, because of how a barrel works, you cannot contain a barrel inside a bag of holding unless it is especially small."
Doesnt work at all? Because the barrel doesnt fit? You're an artificer. You have proficiencies in nearly every tool possible. Can you imagine a simple workaround that gets the ship in the bottle? Or is it really that this doesnt work at all? I mean, what if you use carpentry tools and craft a barrel thats 2 foot on a side (2 foot square) and 4 ft deep? Just small enough to fit. If you craft 4 of these barrels, you have 64 cubic feet of volume. or, ya know, just put the oil in flasks.
Actually, rules as written say you can put water into a bag of holding without a container. So if you werent so fixated on proving the idea wrong, you might have come up with the solution to the "barrel is too big" problem by just pouring the oil directly into the bag.
The barrel was my attempt to be able to use the bag of holding for things other than oil.
10 days of oil production from the alchemy jug will produce 20 flasks, which will do 100 fire damage per turn for 2 turns.
Nope, try again
Creatures only take 5 fire damage per turn max from burning oil
All the extra oil gets you is a wider area of coverage
Dousing a Space. You can take the Utilize action to pour an Oil flask on level ground to cover a 5-foot-square area within 5 feet of yourself. If lit, the oil burns until the end of the turn 2 rounds from when the oil was lit (or 12 seconds) and deals 5 Fire damage to any creature that enters the area or ends its turn there. A creature can take this damage only once per turn.
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Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ah, so, the goal is to find a way to prove me wrong, not have a good gaith discussion of the rules? Also, what do you mean by "again" if this is your first comment on this thread?
" A creature can take this damage only once per turn."
Since the sentence before that talks about how damage can be applied anytime a creture enters OR leaves a space, it seems more reasonable that the "once per turn" is to disallow applying the damage when a creture both enters AND leaves the space in one turn.
Also, the fact that the rule only applies to CREATURES means that you agree that all the damage from all the oil can be applied to structures? I could drop 300 ppunds of oil on one square of a bridge, light it, and do 1500 fire damage to that square, but only 5 damage to the troll who runs through it?
"All the extra oil gets you is a wider area of coverage"
Yeah, back to prioritizing proving me wong versus good faith, NOWHERE do rules say anything about covering more area. Where did you get that from?
If nothing else, i want all the oil in one spot to quickly burn a bridge, or a roof, or whatever, with a thousand points of fire damage. Even if it can only do 5 damage to creatures, because reasons, i could still do max damage to structures.
The rules here clearly lead to realistic results. The more oil thats burning, the more damage it imflicts.
I also understand that is not going to be a fun game. Reality is first modeled in dnd rules and then nerfed until one-turn-tpks are unlikely and dms dont have to see their favorite villian npc go up in a cloud of smoke in one action because a player actualy read the rules as they were written.
For ex, poison in the real world is cheap, ww1 saw widespread use of chemical and biological weapons on a massive scale because poison gas is cheap and can instakill people. Poison in dnd is nerfed to the point that its just not worth using for most players. The most damaging poison in dnd is purple worm poison, and it only does 42 damage and in an effort to discourage even that, it cost 2000 gold and crearures get to make a con save for half damage. No one in their right mind is going to pay 2000 gold for a dose of purple worm poison when there are free ways to do more damage. So wmds got nerfed out of dnd and makes it playable as a hero adventure instead of a meat grinding game managing thousands of troops.
Everything that does damage is basically scaled so that nothing (at least nothing on equivalent levels) can be killed with a single player's action.
But the rule for oil burning is not one of those rules. Its not balanced. It will instakill literally anything in the monster manual that isnt immune to fire damage.
It clearly needs rebalancing. I dont know what rebalancing looks like, but i guarantee you, FIVE fire damge is not it.
But the only way we get to the point of rebalancing is if people admit the rules have a realistic (fire can quickly kill people) outcome here, and it needs to be nerfed to gamify the effect, to make it playable. 4d6 first turn, and 1 die less every turn after that as the fuel burns out. Or something. But we cant get there as ling as people refuse to see a problem in the rules.
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EDIT TO ADD: folks need to calm down. If the rules come together in such a way that it allows insanely massive amounts of damage, maybe some erratta is needed to change the rules in the name of balance. But that doesnt mean you should grasp for rules that dont exist to try and explain this away. If the rules allow this, then some bad interpretation of a nonexistent rule doesnt actually get the rules back to a balanced solution. And if the rules have some flaw in them, its ok. You dont need to come running to defend them with religious fervor. The rules are NOT infallible and thats ok. END EDIT TO ADD
Level 2 artificer. Create infusions for alchemy jug and bag of holding. Every day, have jug produce a quart of oil, thats 2 pint flasks of oil, per day. Each flask can do 5 damage per turn for 2 turns. Each pint weighs a pound. 2 pounds of oil a day for 20 points of fire damage.
10 days of oil production from the alchemy jug will produce 20 flasks, which will do 100 fire damage per turn for 2 turns.
Oil costs 1 silver per pint. So 1 gold will get you 10 flasks of oil. Get as many as you can afford and can buy.
Store flasks in bag of holding.
Level 5 artificer, create homunculus servant. It is your delivery mechanism and possibly your detonator. It has an int and wis of 10, so its smart enough to operate semi-autononus. It has a fly speed of 30. And it is immune to exhaustion, meaning it could fly forever or hover above a target forever, or hunker down in some hidden spot and listen for your command to detonate 24/7. You have direct control of it with telekenisis if within a mile. Or create infusion for sending stones to get unlimited range and 25 words of instructions for how/when to attack.
Buy one flask of alchemists fire.
For oil, you can target the ground a creature is standing on. Have the homunculus turn the bag of holding inside out and dump all flasks of oil in one turn. On impact all oil flasks will shatter. When the vial of alchemist fire hits the ground it will shatter and ignite the oil.
500 pounds of oil would cost you 50 gold to purchas, would just fit in a bag of holding, and would do 2500 points of fire damage per turn, for 2 turns.
If homunculus can drop the oil from the air, the only thing you lose is the 25 gold it cost to buy one flask of alchemist fire.to ignite everything, and 50 gold to purchase the oil.
If the homunculus is destroyed in the fire, thats another 100gp to replace.
A barrel weighs 70 pounds and can carry 40 gallons of liquid. That would translate to 320 flasks (pints) (pounds) of oil.
When full, the barrel and oil will weigh 390 pounds and do 1600 fire damage a turn for 2 turns.
EDIT TO ADD:
barrel is so you can use thr bag of holding to store more than oil. Someone suggested that a standard barrel is too big to fit into mouth of bag of holding. If so, use carpentry tools to craft a crate that is 2ft x 2ft (2 ft square) and 4 feet deep.that is the max size single object that can fit into a bag of holding. Then build 4 of them for full volume. The weight of the crates will reduce the total amount of oil you can carry, but its an option to be able.to use your bag of holding for oil and other equipment.
Alternatively, if you dont need to store anything in bag of holding but oil, then you could just dump the oil directly into the bag. Rules say you can dump water into the bag without a container. So you should be able to dump other fluids, like oil.
END EDIT
“If multiple effects impose the same condition on you, each instance of the condition has its own duration, but the condition’s effects don’t get worse. Either you have a condition or you don’t. The Exhaustion condition is an exception; its effects get worse if you have the condition and receive it again.” - D&D Beyond Basic Rules
This doesn’t work at all, both in theory and practically. A [magic items]Bag of Holding[/magic items] has a size of 2 feet square and is 4 feet deep on the inside, because of how a barrel works, you cannot contain a barrel inside a bag of holding unless it is especially small. You are incapable of doing that much damage as stated above and that is just an insane waste of money, it works as a blunt damage option, but water is literally a better alternative in every way.
"This doesn’t work at all, both in theory and practically. A [magic items]Bag of Holding[/magic items] has a size of 2 feet square and is 4 feet deep on the inside, because of how a barrel works, you cannot contain a barrel inside a bag of holding unless it is especially small."
Doesnt work at all? Because the barrel doesnt fit? You're an artificer. You have proficiencies in nearly every tool possible. Can you imagine a simple workaround that gets the ship in the bottle? Or is it really that this doesnt work at all? I mean, what if you use carpentry tools and craft a barrel thats 2 foot on a side (2 foot square) and 4 ft deep? Just small enough to fit. If you craft 4 of these barrels, you have 64 cubic feet of volume. or, ya know, just put the oil in flasks.
Actually, rules as written say you can put water into a bag of holding without a container. So if you werent so fixated on proving the idea wrong, you might have come up with the solution to the "barrel is too big" problem by just pouring the oil directly into the bag.
The barrel was my attempt to be able to use the bag of holding for things other than oil.
"If multiple effects impose the same condition"
Damage isnt listed as one of rhe possible conditions.
Nope, try again
Creatures only take 5 fire damage per turn max from burning oil
All the extra oil gets you is a wider area of coverage
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
"Nope, try again"
Ah, so, the goal is to find a way to prove me wrong, not have a good gaith discussion of the rules? Also, what do you mean by "again" if this is your first comment on this thread?
" A creature can take this damage only once per turn."
Since the sentence before that talks about how damage can be applied anytime a creture enters OR leaves a space, it seems more reasonable that the "once per turn" is to disallow applying the damage when a creture both enters AND leaves the space in one turn.
Also, the fact that the rule only applies to CREATURES means that you agree that all the damage from all the oil can be applied to structures? I could drop 300 ppunds of oil on one square of a bridge, light it, and do 1500 fire damage to that square, but only 5 damage to the troll who runs through it?
"All the extra oil gets you is a wider area of coverage"
Yeah, back to prioritizing proving me wong versus good faith, NOWHERE do rules say anything about covering more area. Where did you get that from?
If nothing else, i want all the oil in one spot to quickly burn a bridge, or a roof, or whatever, with a thousand points of fire damage. Even if it can only do 5 damage to creatures, because reasons, i could still do max damage to structures.
The rules here clearly lead to realistic results. The more oil thats burning, the more damage it imflicts.
I also understand that is not going to be a fun game. Reality is first modeled in dnd rules and then nerfed until one-turn-tpks are unlikely and dms dont have to see their favorite villian npc go up in a cloud of smoke in one action because a player actualy read the rules as they were written.
For ex, poison in the real world is cheap, ww1 saw widespread use of chemical and biological weapons on a massive scale because poison gas is cheap and can instakill people. Poison in dnd is nerfed to the point that its just not worth using for most players. The most damaging poison in dnd is purple worm poison, and it only does 42 damage and in an effort to discourage even that, it cost 2000 gold and crearures get to make a con save for half damage. No one in their right mind is going to pay 2000 gold for a dose of purple worm poison when there are free ways to do more damage. So wmds got nerfed out of dnd and makes it playable as a hero adventure instead of a meat grinding game managing thousands of troops.
Everything that does damage is basically scaled so that nothing (at least nothing on equivalent levels) can be killed with a single player's action.
But the rule for oil burning is not one of those rules. Its not balanced. It will instakill literally anything in the monster manual that isnt immune to fire damage.
It clearly needs rebalancing. I dont know what rebalancing looks like, but i guarantee you, FIVE fire damge is not it.
But the only way we get to the point of rebalancing is if people admit the rules have a realistic (fire can quickly kill people) outcome here, and it needs to be nerfed to gamify the effect, to make it playable. 4d6 first turn, and 1 die less every turn after that as the fuel burns out. Or something. But we cant get there as ling as people refuse to see a problem in the rules.