Look at the individual races that are listed as small: Halflings, Gnomes, Kobolds, Goblins, any others I left out.
Halflings: reroll 1s on any attack, ability check, or saving throw. Probably the most op race skill in the game. Gnomes: advantage on saving throws against magic. Also incredibly strong. Kobolds: Pack tactics. Incredibly strong. Goblins: Disengage as a bonus action. Incredibly useful.
The small races have reaaaaally strong abilities tied to them. I think them being small is balancing them around their op race abilities.
I completely disagree that any of those are stronger than a High Elf.
Kobolds are weak as hell. Small, -ability mod, and sunlight sensitivity for 1 weak ability and 1 strong ability. Great.
Halflings are maybe in the top tier of races, but if so they are toward the bottom of that tier. Rerolling 1s isn't OP, it's just strong. They have to take the second roll, no matter what. It's a mild statistical advantage.
Gnomes move 25 ft, and half their subrace features are ribbons.
So, they get darkvision and advantage on Int, wis, and Cha saves vs magic. Right about in line with elves, if you don't count the size mechanics and the -5ft of speed.
Goblins get 1/3 of a second level rogue ability. Stunning! /s
srsly tho, it's not OP by any means. It's about normal for a race feature.
Halflings are maybe in the top tier of races, but if so they are toward the bottom of that tier. Rerolling 1s isn't OP, it's just strong. They have to take the second roll, no matter what. It's a mild statistical advantage.
I don't know how you define a mild statistical advantage, but I do know that that changes the chance of rolling a 1 from 1/20 to 1/400.
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Halflings are maybe in the top tier of races, but if so they are toward the bottom of that tier. Rerolling 1s isn't OP, it's just strong. They have to take the second roll, no matter what. It's a mild statistical advantage.
I don't know how you define a mild statistical advantage, but I do know that that changes the chance of rolling a 1 from 1/20 to 1/400.
The difference between a 1 and a 2-7 or so, only matters in attacks and death saving throws. It makes 1 dramatically less likely, and makes failure very slightly less likely.
Thats a mild statistical advantage.
Why very slightly? Because the ability only activates on ~5% of rolls. ~5% of the time, you'll reroll a fail, with no guarantee that the second roll won't also be a failure.
Talking about statistic: if the Halfling has to roll a 11 or higher to succeed, the odds are 50%. The lucky feature increases these odds to 52.5 %.
But to answer to the initial post, yes I think the main advantage to small PCs is the cover, intended both as stealth situations and as AC/DEX save bonus.
Beyond what has already been mentioned, the basics of being small can be favourable. Being 4 feet tall and 50 lbs lets you go places and do things other races cannot. And unlike in previous editions, it does not limit your damage except in disallowing heavy weapons.
It also allows you to ride medium-sized mounts - while mounts are less important in this game than, say, Pathfinder, it means you can bring your mount into a dungeon. Great for Beast Masters and Cavaliers. Which in turn makes their limited foot speed irrelevant.
Halflings are maybe in the top tier of races, but if so they are toward the bottom of that tier. Rerolling 1s isn't OP, it's just strong. They have to take the second roll, no matter what. It's a mild statistical advantage.
I don't know how you define a mild statistical advantage, but I do know that that changes the chance of rolling a 1 from 1/20 to 1/400.
The difference between a 1 and a 2-7 or so, only matters in attacks and death saving throws. It makes 1 dramatically less likely, and makes failure very slightly less likely.
Thats a mild statistical advantage.
Why very slightly? Because the ability only activates on ~5% of rolls. ~5% of the time, you'll reroll a fail, with no guarantee that the second roll won't also be a failure.
It's a good ability, but it is hardly "OP".
But it's every d20 roll that they get that 5% chance on, which will be a ton of rolls in a normal session. How often will you be subjected to a sleep spell or a charm effect? Maybe once per session, maybe. In that same session you'll roll the d20 around a hundred times. and if your group does critical fumbles, this almost entirely eliminates them from that character which can be very strong, as well. There's a reason the lucky feat only has 3 charges and the divination wizard only gets a couple of die from his ability: the ability to manipulate dice rolls is really strong in a game where dice determine so much.
I really feel like you're understating how powerful halfling luck really is.
I completely disagree that any of those are stronger than a High Elf.
Kobolds are weak as hell. Small, -ability mod, and sunlight sensitivity for 1 weak ability and 1 strong ability. Great.
Halflings are maybe in the top tier of races, but if so they are toward the bottom of that tier. Rerolling 1s isn't OP, it's just strong. They have to take the second roll, no matter what. It's a mild statistical advantage.
Gnomes move 25 ft, and half their subrace features are ribbons.
So, they get darkvision and advantage on Int, wis, and Cha saves vs magic. Right about in line with elves, if you don't count the size mechanics and the -5ft of speed.
Goblins get 1/3 of a second level rogue ability. Stunning! /s
srsly tho, it's not OP by any means. It's about normal for a race feature.
Elves get darkvision which is actually pretty shit since you still need bright light to avoid the negative to your perception checks and it's only slightly more vision than you'd get from a torch anyway. They get fey ancestry but you won't be subjected to sleep or charm effects very often in a standard session, maybe once. It's nice, but nothing particularly strong. Extra weapon proficiencies are nice, but most classes you'll be playing that care about these weapons will already give you proficiency in these weapons. Trance isn't particularly good since you still need to spend the whole 8 hours resting to complete the long rest, even if you only "slept" for 4 hours instead of 6-8. An extra cantrip is nice, but it's a wizard cantrip so it'll be int-based which means that you'll either already have access to it from being a wizard, or it's probably an extra cantrip in your dump stat since only wizards use int as their main stat. having prestidigitation or minor illusion could be very useful if you use it well, but hardly makes high elves particularly strong. Free proficiency in perception is very good and probably the best thing elves get.
Kobolds: a minus ability to a stat they're most likely dumping to begin with. The ability to give all of your party advantage on attacks against all the enemies within 10 feet of you is really strong. There's a barbarian path built around exactly this, but even that is only to enemies within 5 feet of you, not 10. Sunlight sensitivity is a *****, but packtics will usually counter it if you're in sunlight, and you have to be in direct sunlight anyway, so if you're in a cave, forest, town with buildings that cast shadows, etc. it's no big deal.
Halflings: strong racial abilities regardless of class and diverse bonuses based on subrace.
Gnomes: half of subrace options are shit, but the other racial bonuses are really great. Their ability stat bump is for a shit ability if they're anything but a wizard unless they're going EK or AT. Gnomes are probably the weakest racially of the small races, but the bonus to saving throws against magic is really strong if they go with a martial class that would normally have low wis/int/cha. Probably the best balance for any class other than generic human whose balance is a complete lack of anything that particularly stands out.
Goblins: they get probably the strongest of the 3 rogue options for a bonus action without having to dip 2 levels into rogue to get it. Bonus actions are severely lacking for a lot of classes, and being able to disengage is great for survivability and kiting. They also get fury of the small which is a nice bump to damage.
The -5 to movement speed most small races get and the inability to wield heavy weapons is completely appropriate since the small races have probably the best racial abilities of any race in the game.
Talking about statistic: if the Halfling has to roll a 11 or higher to succeed, the odds are 50%. The lucky feature increases these odds to 52.5 %.
But to answer to the initial post, yes I think the main advantage to small PCs is the cover, intended both as stealth situations and as AC/DEX save bonus.
Right, about half the increased chance of success of advantage, if we are willing to oversimplify. A strong feature, but it doesn't make Halflings stronger than Elves or Dwarves. Just makes them a good race. Solid. Unlike the very weak Kobold, or middle-place goblin. I'd even say that Forest Gnomes are just as strong as either Halfling, although Rock gnomes are kinda lame on the Subrace features, mechanically. Thematically Tinker stuff is cool, but it's a minor proficiency and a ribbon.
But yeah, when they come up, cover and concealment are definately useful. Then again, a Wood Elf can gain concealment from light fog or foliage, or other natural terrain. It's raining and overcast? Good enough to Wood Elf stealthing! Both are useful, but the small benefit comes in less often in most games, I'd think, is more DM dependent, and isn't explicitly stated anywhere (this makes a difference, especially in organized play and with new groups/DMs). More on this below
Beyond what has already been mentioned, the basics of being small can be favourable. Being 4 feet tall and 50 lbs lets you go places and do things other races cannot. And unlike in previous editions, it does not limit your damage except in disallowing heavy weapons.
It also allows you to ride medium-sized mounts - while mounts are less important in this game than, say, Pathfinder, it means you can bring your mount into a dungeon. Great for Beast Masters and Cavaliers. Which in turn makes their limited foot speed irrelevant.
The mounts thing is a decent point, that I wasn't considering. Thanks!
So, looking at the pros and cons, we have:
COns
Effectively cannot use heavy weapons.
No reach weapons (whips are terrible, but I guess you could dual wield them?)
No Great Weapon Fighting as full efficacy
No Longbow = noticeably less ranged power for small archers, even though it doesn't really make sense (imo)
Can grapple and shove (possibly trip?) fewer common enemies
Pros
easier to hide (situational)
Easier to get cover (situational)
Mounts (campaign dependent)
Lighter, easier to carry (rarely an issue)
Can move through the space of more common enemies
So, not as bad as I was thinking. I think that what I need to do is review what weapons are heavy, and almost certainly make the Longbow and Glaive lose the heavy property.
So, not as bad as I was thinking. I think that what I need to do is review what weapons are heavy, and almost certainly make the Longbow and Glaive lose the heavy property.
Longbow and anything that does 1d10 or better (except via Versatile), except the lance.
The advantages of being small are situational and mostly narrative. Don't let folks distract you with an exclusive focus on mechanics. You might be capable of doing things that other players shouldn't even look at their dice for.
Maybe there's nothing in this scene large enough for an elf or human to hide behind, but the gnome is fine behind that stump. Maybe your the only one light enough to cross the ice without checking to fall through. Maybe being a halfling makes it easier for you to trick an orc into underestimating you.
Remember that your DM is very busy managing a lot of stuff (story, clues, monsters, NPCs, time for each player, etc). They may not remember to account for your size (or similar things for each individual player). If the DM describes a scene and you think being small might be an advantage don't be afraid to ask.
So, not as bad as I was thinking. I think that what I need to do is review what weapons are heavy, and almost certainly make the Longbow and Glaive lose the heavy property.
Longbow and anything that does 1d10 or better (except via Versatile), except the lance.
Are you trying to tell me what weapons are heavy? *rereads what I wrote before*
AH, ok. That's my bad. What I meant was, "review whether the heavy weapons should be heavy*.
The advantages of being small are situational and mostly narrative. Don't let folks distract you with an exclusive focus on mechanics. You might be capable of doing things that other players shouldn't even look at their dice for.
Maybe there's nothing in this scene large enough for an elf or human to hide behind, but the gnome is fine behind that stump. Maybe your the only one light enough to cross the ice without checking to fall through. Maybe being a halfling makes it easier for you to trick an orc into underestimating you.
Remember that your DM is very busy managing a lot of stuff (story, clues, monsters, NPCs, time for each player, etc). They may not remember to account for your size (or similar things for each individual player). If the DM describes a scene and you think being small might be an advantage don't be afraid to ask.
I'm the primary DM in my group.
I'm coming at this from the perspective of a DM and game designer, not just that of a player.
My point is exactly that most of the benefits of being small are very situational and DM dependent, while the drawbacks neither. A small ranged weapon user can't get the same damage as a medium creature.
A small great weapon fighter will always be a damage die behind a medium GWF.
This creates a circumstance that I don't like, wherein most halflings and gnomes are casters and rogues, or rogue-like fighters and rangers. Every archer ranger I've seen in public play that is small has taken levels or rogue for SA to make up for being stuck with the shortbow, unless the DM handwaived the heavy property. In those games, the same players went from planning to MC, to going full ranger, because they literally were only taking rogue levels to make up the damage difference.
I've seen longsword GWF gnome barbarians, but again they tend to find ways to get damage sources outside their main class because even though 1 die step isn't actually a big deal statistically, it feels like it.
And of course, there are no RAW Gnomish pikemen, because every reach weapon but the whip is heavy.
That arbitrary stifling of concept is what I don't like.
But like I said in my last post, I think that ditching Heavy on the Longbow and Glaive, or adding a few weapons that fit the bill with different descriptions, will solve the problem. I may restrict the new reach weapon to 1d8, but maybe not. It's not like small creatures can't already get d10 with verstatile weapons.
While the damage die thing is a bit of a bummer, it needs to be remembered that it amounts to about a -1 on damage relative to tall folk - and only on two-handed weapons. It's less than it used to be (where ALL weapons were dropped by a damage die for shorties) and hardly counts as crippling. When you say that most halflings and gnomes are casters and rogues, that's for a reason - that's literally what most folk of those races would choose to be as adventurers. This is where you get interesting stories for those halflings and gnomes who choose (or get chosen) to be paladins, barbarians, or rangers. They shouldn't necessarily be as strong at it as a half-orc - instead they should have their own special way of going about things. The halfling barbarian in my one game delighted in darting between an enemy's legs (using his "Halfling Nimbleness") and hacking at its knees. It's like having a Wood Elf paladin - there might not be tons of them, and they'll never be as "optimal" as some of the other races (like Half-Elf or Dragonborn), but they can absolutely work and really aren't hamstrung THAT much as long as you get over the minutiae of -1s and +1s.
The concept isn't stifling "arbitrarily" - these are 4-foot tall dudes and dudettes trying to hold, say, a 6-foot longbow. That shouldn't work right.
Also, note that the Lance is a reach weapon without the heavy property. It even has a d12 for damage. Its tradeoff is that it's the only reach weapon that doesn't work at 5ft.
Gnomes and Halflings should be just as much fighters, paladins, etc as other races, in the game world. The idea they shouldn't be, or wouldn't choose to be, has always been bonkers.
Also, I already explicitly noted that the smaller die isn't statistically a big deal.
Gnomes and Halflings should be just as much fighters, paladins, etc as other races, in the game world. The idea they shouldn't has always been bonkers.
Why? What is it about being a GWF Fighter that should make a typical halfling go - "Yeah, that's for me"? Certainly there will always be outliers (like expats from a community militia or something), but for the average gnome, they would be more likely to look at simple logistics and think, "Maybe I'll just steal what I need." Like short basketball players, the few that self-select into it are going to be at certain disadvantages, even if we don't say, "You have to be this tall to play." That doesn't necessarily stop them, and can make for more interesting stories than if we just broke the rules to make it easier for them.
We've still come a long way from human-only Paladins in 2ed.
As someone who almost always plays small characters being SMALL is a negative. Your movement will always suck. But they like to make up for that with a few extra goodies. Like Halflings gets lucky which is very useful. I like being small because of the all role playing situations it brings out. Also I am only 5ft IRL so it kinda fits XD
As someone who almost always plays small characters being SMALL is a negative. Your movement will always suck. But they like to make up for that with a few extra goodies. Like Halflings gets lucky which is very useful. I like being small because of the all role playing situations it brings out. Also I am only 5ft IRL so it kinda fits XD
I play them a lot too, they're fun.
But halfings get about as much as an elf or a dwarf, but with drawbacks they don't have.
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Small creatures have Disadvantage to use Heavy weapons.
Every small race seems balanced against medium races when you ignore the above.
So, is there any advantage to being small?
All I can think of is being able to get cover or concealment more easily, but that is way more situational and DM dependent than the downside.
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Look at the individual races that are listed as small: Halflings, Gnomes, Kobolds, Goblins, any others I left out.
Halflings: reroll 1s on any attack, ability check, or saving throw. Probably the most op race skill in the game.
Gnomes: advantage on saving throws against magic. Also incredibly strong.
Kobolds: Pack tactics. Incredibly strong.
Goblins: Disengage as a bonus action. Incredibly useful.
The small races have reaaaaally strong abilities tied to them. I think them being small is balancing them around their op race abilities.
Small creatures can function normally in small spaces. This is very helpful if you're trying to clear out a well-set-up kobold den.
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I completely disagree that any of those are stronger than a High Elf.
Kobolds are weak as hell. Small, -ability mod, and sunlight sensitivity for 1 weak ability and 1 strong ability. Great.
Halflings are maybe in the top tier of races, but if so they are toward the bottom of that tier. Rerolling 1s isn't OP, it's just strong. They have to take the second roll, no matter what. It's a mild statistical advantage.
Gnomes move 25 ft, and half their subrace features are ribbons.
So, they get darkvision and advantage on Int, wis, and Cha saves vs magic. Right about in line with elves, if you don't count the size mechanics and the -5ft of speed.
Goblins get 1/3 of a second level rogue ability. Stunning! /s
srsly tho, it's not OP by any means. It's about normal for a race feature.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Talking about statistic: if the Halfling has to roll a 11 or higher to succeed, the odds are 50%. The lucky feature increases these odds to 52.5 %.
But to answer to the initial post, yes I think the main advantage to small PCs is the cover, intended both as stealth situations and as AC/DEX save bonus.
Beyond what has already been mentioned, the basics of being small can be favourable. Being 4 feet tall and 50 lbs lets you go places and do things other races cannot. And unlike in previous editions, it does not limit your damage except in disallowing heavy weapons.
It also allows you to ride medium-sized mounts - while mounts are less important in this game than, say, Pathfinder, it means you can bring your mount into a dungeon. Great for Beast Masters and Cavaliers. Which in turn makes their limited foot speed irrelevant.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I really feel like you're understating how powerful halfling luck really is.
Kobolds: a minus ability to a stat they're most likely dumping to begin with. The ability to give all of your party advantage on attacks against all the enemies within 10 feet of you is really strong. There's a barbarian path built around exactly this, but even that is only to enemies within 5 feet of you, not 10. Sunlight sensitivity is a *****, but packtics will usually counter it if you're in sunlight, and you have to be in direct sunlight anyway, so if you're in a cave, forest, town with buildings that cast shadows, etc. it's no big deal.
Halflings: strong racial abilities regardless of class and diverse bonuses based on subrace.
Gnomes: half of subrace options are shit, but the other racial bonuses are really great. Their ability stat bump is for a shit ability if they're anything but a wizard unless they're going EK or AT. Gnomes are probably the weakest racially of the small races, but the bonus to saving throws against magic is really strong if they go with a martial class that would normally have low wis/int/cha. Probably the best balance for any class other than generic human whose balance is a complete lack of anything that particularly stands out.
Goblins: they get probably the strongest of the 3 rogue options for a bonus action without having to dip 2 levels into rogue to get it. Bonus actions are severely lacking for a lot of classes, and being able to disengage is great for survivability and kiting. They also get fury of the small which is a nice bump to damage.
The -5 to movement speed most small races get and the inability to wield heavy weapons is completely appropriate since the small races have probably the best racial abilities of any race in the game.
So, not as bad as I was thinking. I think that what I need to do is review what weapons are heavy, and almost certainly make the Longbow and Glaive lose the heavy property.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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The advantages of being small are situational and mostly narrative. Don't let folks distract you with an exclusive focus on mechanics. You might be capable of doing things that other players shouldn't even look at their dice for.
Maybe there's nothing in this scene large enough for an elf or human to hide behind, but the gnome is fine behind that stump. Maybe your the only one light enough to cross the ice without checking to fall through. Maybe being a halfling makes it easier for you to trick an orc into underestimating you.
Remember that your DM is very busy managing a lot of stuff (story, clues, monsters, NPCs, time for each player, etc). They may not remember to account for your size (or similar things for each individual player). If the DM describes a scene and you think being small might be an advantage don't be afraid to ask.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
While the damage die thing is a bit of a bummer, it needs to be remembered that it amounts to about a -1 on damage relative to tall folk - and only on two-handed weapons. It's less than it used to be (where ALL weapons were dropped by a damage die for shorties) and hardly counts as crippling. When you say that most halflings and gnomes are casters and rogues, that's for a reason - that's literally what most folk of those races would choose to be as adventurers. This is where you get interesting stories for those halflings and gnomes who choose (or get chosen) to be paladins, barbarians, or rangers. They shouldn't necessarily be as strong at it as a half-orc - instead they should have their own special way of going about things. The halfling barbarian in my one game delighted in darting between an enemy's legs (using his "Halfling Nimbleness") and hacking at its knees. It's like having a Wood Elf paladin - there might not be tons of them, and they'll never be as "optimal" as some of the other races (like Half-Elf or Dragonborn), but they can absolutely work and really aren't hamstrung THAT much as long as you get over the minutiae of -1s and +1s.
The concept isn't stifling "arbitrarily" - these are 4-foot tall dudes and dudettes trying to hold, say, a 6-foot longbow. That shouldn't work right.
Also, note that the Lance is a reach weapon without the heavy property. It even has a d12 for damage. Its tradeoff is that it's the only reach weapon that doesn't work at 5ft.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Gnomes and Halflings should be just as much fighters, paladins, etc as other races, in the game world. The idea they shouldn't be, or wouldn't choose to be, has always been bonkers.
Also, I already explicitly noted that the smaller die isn't statistically a big deal.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
As someone who almost always plays small characters being SMALL is a negative. Your movement will always suck. But they like to make up for that with a few extra goodies. Like Halflings gets lucky which is very useful. I like being small because of the all role playing situations it brings out. Also I am only 5ft IRL so it kinda fits XD
~I am a Halfling Warrior at Heart~
~Tempus Fugit~
We do bones, motherf***ker!
We do bones, motherf***ker!