l am thinking of playing a necromancer but i see that to get excess to all/most of the necromancy spells l have to be a wizard/cleric multiclass. the problem is that l read somewhere that if you multiclass you cant get excess to the high teir spells (ie 9th teir) ls there any other way to get all/most necromancy spells? does multiclassing really stop me from getting top tier magic? any advice you can give to this new player is appreciated.
There are two types of necromancy spell: the kind that raise the dead/save the dying and the kind that create undead/deal necrotic damage.
Clerics have the raise/save necromancy spells, and wizards have the undead/necrotic necromancy spells.
So if you want to be the iconic necromancer that rots the living and creates and army of undead, that is 100% Wizard (there is even a subclass specifically for it).
As for multiclassing spellcasters: the level of spells you can learn is determined by your level in that class. For example a level 17 Wizard/ level 3 cleric can learn level 9 wizards spells and level 2 cleric spells.
So there is no way for a single character to be able to cast both "true resurrection"(lv 9 cleric) and "clone"(lv8 wiz) ? That sucks. hopefully my DM will be willing to homebrew a rule for it or something.
Another question,l read somewhere that you can use any scroll as long as that spell is in your spell list. ls this true? lf so would l be able to use a scroll of true resurrection as a wiz 17 Cl 3 (or whatever ratio l end up with)? Would l be able to create said scroll or do l have to be able to cast the spell to write a scroll for it? How do you make a magic scroll anyway?
(And cause you are answering questions, what level do you have to be to gain lv 9 magic? l am guessing lv 20 but does it have to be only lv 20 in one class or does lv 9 magic unlock when the player lv is 20?)
From the top: a level 18 bard can get both spells with magical secrets, but this is probably not what you are wanting.
You can use a spell scroll as long as it is on the class spell list, yes, but you will have to make a roll if it is a higher level than you can cast. If you can find a scroll of true resurrection, you can cast it, but you will need to succeed a DC19 WIS check. You have to know and be able to cast the spell to create a scroll, it is also expensive and time consuming. You can make it during downtime (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/xgte/downtime-revisited#ScribingaSpellScroll).
Full spellcasters learn level 9 spells at level 17. You can find these details on the class pages or in the multiclass rules I linked previously.
Also, generally, wanting to play a necromancer doesn't mean you necessarily need every single necromancy-tagged spell. Why would a necromancer want true resurrection at all? That restores a dead person to actual life and creates them a new body. A necromancer would prefer to have that person bound as an undead minion - true resurrection is about the last thing they'd be casting.
The better question is how do you fit the necromancer into a campaign? They don't usually play well with others...
You could make a divine soul sorcerer, which would give you access to cleric spells in addition to sorcerer spells and thereby grant you access to the vast majority of necromancy spells overall. Then when you get access to 9th level spells, you could use wish to grant yourself the clone spell, with the DM's approval of course.
That might also be thematically more similar to what you imagine a necromancer looking and acting like.
You could make a divine soul sorcerer, which would give you access to cleric spells in addition to sorcerer spells and thereby grant you access to the vast majority of necromancy spells overall. Then when you get access to 9th level spells, you could use wish to grant yourself the clone spell, with the DM's approval of course.
That might also be thematically more similar to what you imagine a necromancer looking and acting like.
I thought about that too, but while looking through the spell list I noticed sorcerers get very few necromancy spells the wizards get.
l am thinking of playing a necromancer but i see that to get excess to all/most of the necromancy spells l have to be a wizard/cleric multiclass. the problem is that l read somewhere that if you multiclass you cant get excess to the high teir spells (ie 9th teir) ls there any other way to get all/most necromancy spells? does multiclassing really stop me from getting top tier magic? any advice you can give to this new player is appreciated.
A Necromancer is not a character who can cast all/most spells in the Necromancy school. A Necromancer is a character who is devoted to the "necromantic arts", or something along those lines. Generally speaking, it's a character who deals with death and undeath, and not a character that deals with life and resurrection (which tend to be spells in the Necromancy school). There are some good options for that: Cleric of Death domain, Necromancer Wizard, Undying Patron Warlock, for example.
To reiterate, a Necromancer is not a character who can cast all/most spells in the Necromancy school any more than a Ranger is a character who can use all/most ranged attack options.
On the other hand, with Wish you can duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. Necromancer Wizards get Wish, and can therefore effectively cast all spells of level 8 or lower. That means a Necromancer Wizard can effectively cast all Necromancy spells except True Resurrection, which, while of the Necromancy school, is not a spell traditionally associated with "Necromancers".
I thought about that too, but while looking through the spell list I noticed sorcerers get very few necromancy spells the wizards get.
It's a fair point and there is no perfect solution. In this case, a divine soul sorcerer would miss out on cause fear,ray of enfeeblement,vampiric touch,danse macabre,negative energy flood,magic jar,soul cage, and the aforementioned clone. That makes for eight necromancy wizard spells the divine soul sorcerer could not get and some of them are very good ones. There are also at least as many wizard spells that have sorcerer overlap and that isn't counting the spells that overlap onto the cleric list.
Wow thanks for all the feedback everyone. At this point l am thinking of useing the wish spell for my needs or working something out with the dm to homebrew a necromancer class so l can get all spells listed under necromancy.
As an aside, if we were to make a necromancer subclass that got access to most of, or the entire necromancy school of magic, which class would be the most appropriate to build it under? Or would you really be best served creating a whole new character class?
As an aside, if we were to make a necromancer subclass that got access to most of, or the entire necromancy school of magic, which class would be the most appropriate to build it under? Or would you really be best served creating a whole new character class?
I honestly feel this is a non-concept, an idea born out of an out-of-context interpretation of a little bit of metadata about a specific feature of the game. Why don't Evokers get access to Wrathful Smite? Should we propose a new class, or subclass, that gets access to all Evocation spells? What about a class/subclass that gets access to all the different ranged attacks (weapons, features, spells, etc.)? What if I want a character that gets access to all spells that deal Radiant damage? Those are all mechanical bits of metadata, and not actual character class/subclass concepts.
Basically, there's already a subclass for that. It's a school of necromancy wizard.
A lich only gets three necromancy spells in their stat block. The rest (cloudkill, finger of death, dominate monster, etc.) come from other schools of magic.
I honestly feel this is a non-concept, an idea born out of an out-of-context interpretation of a little bit of metadata about a specific feature of the game. Why don't Evokers get access to Wrathful Smite? Should we propose a new class, or subclass, that gets access to all Evocation spells? What about a class/subclass that gets access to all the different ranged attacks (weapons, features, spells, etc.)? What if I want a character that gets access to all spells that deal Radiant damage? Those are all mechanical bits of metadata, and not actual character class/subclass concepts.
This is a fair, if unsatisfying response. I attribute it to my not articulating my desire and intention well enough. I still believe in this concept and I'm going to work on more specifics. If I come up with something, I will submit it for peer review in the homebrew forum.
I honestly feel this is a non-concept, an idea born out of an out-of-context interpretation of a little bit of metadata about a specific feature of the game. Why don't Evokers get access to Wrathful Smite? Should we propose a new class, or subclass, that gets access to all Evocation spells? What about a class/subclass that gets access to all the different ranged attacks (weapons, features, spells, etc.)? What if I want a character that gets access to all spells that deal Radiant damage? Those are all mechanical bits of metadata, and not actual character class/subclass concepts.
This is a fair, if unsatisfying response. I attribute it to my not articulating my desire and intention well enough. I still believe in this concept and I'm going to work on more specifics. If I come up with something, I will submit it for peer review in the homebrew forum.
Sigh, now you'll have me hitting refresh on the homebrew forum repeatedly until I see your post, because I'm honestly curious as to what concept involves the ability to cast all spells of a particular school! :D
No, giving a subclass of any class the ability to cast all necromancy spells in addition to everything they can already do would likely be impossible to do in a balanced way and it wouldn't suit my intentions anyway. I'm leaning toward making a Necromancer variant of the Pact of the Undying warlock, since it already has pretty decent overlap with what I want. I am going to cherry-pick and modify a few of the perks of the school of necromancy wizard and pull in a few appropriate cleric spells too. When I feel like it's good enough to let you fine people rip it to shreds, I'll be sure to post it and see what becomes of it.
Honestly, I'd be interested in seeing a Necromancer class inspired by the Necromancer in Diablo. Obviously that would require a ton of tweaking... although parts of Diablo are inspired by games like D&D, the focus is entirely different. But something in that vein focused on controlling a horde of disposable minions sounds potentially pretty fun (even if it would end up being a nightmare for the DM to track)
Honestly, I'd be interested in seeing a Necromancer class inspired by the Necromancer in Diablo. Obviously that would require a ton of tweaking... although parts of Diablo are inspired by games like D&D, the focus is entirely different. But something in that vein focused on controlling a horde of disposable minions sounds potentially pretty fun (even if it would end up being a nightmare for the DM to track)
I don't know anything about Diablo, but controlling a hoard of thousands on undead does not require any tweaking, just a lot of planning. I saw a YouTube video that calculated how many undead could be controlled RAW by a level 20 necromancer (I think it was dawnforgecast).
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l am thinking of playing a necromancer but i see that to get excess to all/most of the necromancy spells l have to be a wizard/cleric multiclass. the problem is that l read somewhere that if you multiclass you cant get excess to the high teir spells (ie 9th teir) ls there any other way to get all/most necromancy spells? does multiclassing really stop me from getting top tier magic? any advice you can give to this new player is appreciated.
There are two types of necromancy spell: the kind that raise the dead/save the dying and the kind that create undead/deal necrotic damage.
Clerics have the raise/save necromancy spells, and wizards have the undead/necrotic necromancy spells.
So if you want to be the iconic necromancer that rots the living and creates and army of undead, that is 100% Wizard (there is even a subclass specifically for it).
As for multiclassing spellcasters: the level of spells you can learn is determined by your level in that class. For example a level 17 Wizard/ level 3 cleric can learn level 9 wizards spells and level 2 cleric spells.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/customization-options#Spellcasting
So there is no way for a single character to be able to cast both "true resurrection"(lv 9 cleric) and "clone"(lv8 wiz) ? That sucks. hopefully my DM will be willing to homebrew a rule for it or something.
Another question,l read somewhere that you can use any scroll as long as that spell is in your spell list. ls this true? lf so would l be able to use a scroll of true resurrection as a wiz 17 Cl 3 (or whatever ratio l end up with)? Would l be able to create said scroll or do l have to be able to cast the spell to write a scroll for it? How do you make a magic scroll anyway?
(And cause you are answering questions, what level do you have to be to gain lv 9 magic? l am guessing lv 20 but does it have to be only lv 20 in one class or does lv 9 magic unlock when the player lv is 20?)
From the top: a level 18 bard can get both spells with magical secrets, but this is probably not what you are wanting.
You can use a spell scroll as long as it is on the class spell list, yes, but you will have to make a roll if it is a higher level than you can cast. If you can find a scroll of true resurrection, you can cast it, but you will need to succeed a DC19 WIS check. You have to know and be able to cast the spell to create a scroll, it is also expensive and time consuming. You can make it during downtime (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/xgte/downtime-revisited#ScribingaSpellScroll).
Full spellcasters learn level 9 spells at level 17. You can find these details on the class pages or in the multiclass rules I linked previously.
ok thanks
Also, generally, wanting to play a necromancer doesn't mean you necessarily need every single necromancy-tagged spell. Why would a necromancer want true resurrection at all? That restores a dead person to actual life and creates them a new body. A necromancer would prefer to have that person bound as an undead minion - true resurrection is about the last thing they'd be casting.
The better question is how do you fit the necromancer into a campaign? They don't usually play well with others...
You could make a divine soul sorcerer, which would give you access to cleric spells in addition to sorcerer spells and thereby grant you access to the vast majority of necromancy spells overall. Then when you get access to 9th level spells, you could use wish to grant yourself the clone spell, with the DM's approval of course.
That might also be thematically more similar to what you imagine a necromancer looking and acting like.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
oh yeah, the wish spell. l forgot about that. great idea, thanks.
I thought about that too, but while looking through the spell list I noticed sorcerers get very few necromancy spells the wizards get.
A Necromancer is not a character who can cast all/most spells in the Necromancy school. A Necromancer is a character who is devoted to the "necromantic arts", or something along those lines. Generally speaking, it's a character who deals with death and undeath, and not a character that deals with life and resurrection (which tend to be spells in the Necromancy school). There are some good options for that: Cleric of Death domain, Necromancer Wizard, Undying Patron Warlock, for example.
To reiterate, a Necromancer is not a character who can cast all/most spells in the Necromancy school any more than a Ranger is a character who can use all/most ranged attack options.
On the other hand, with Wish you can duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. Necromancer Wizards get Wish, and can therefore effectively cast all spells of level 8 or lower. That means a Necromancer Wizard can effectively cast all Necromancy spells except True Resurrection, which, while of the Necromancy school, is not a spell traditionally associated with "Necromancers".
It's a fair point and there is no perfect solution. In this case, a divine soul sorcerer would miss out on cause fear,ray of enfeeblement,vampiric touch,danse macabre,negative energy flood,magic jar,soul cage, and the aforementioned clone. That makes for eight necromancy wizard spells the divine soul sorcerer could not get and some of them are very good ones. There are also at least as many wizard spells that have sorcerer overlap and that isn't counting the spells that overlap onto the cleric list.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Wow thanks for all the feedback everyone. At this point l am thinking of useing the wish spell for my needs or working something out with the dm to homebrew a necromancer class so l can get all spells listed under necromancy.
As an aside, if we were to make a necromancer subclass that got access to most of, or the entire necromancy school of magic, which class would be the most appropriate to build it under? Or would you really be best served creating a whole new character class?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I honestly feel this is a non-concept, an idea born out of an out-of-context interpretation of a little bit of metadata about a specific feature of the game. Why don't Evokers get access to Wrathful Smite? Should we propose a new class, or subclass, that gets access to all Evocation spells? What about a class/subclass that gets access to all the different ranged attacks (weapons, features, spells, etc.)? What if I want a character that gets access to all spells that deal Radiant damage? Those are all mechanical bits of metadata, and not actual character class/subclass concepts.
Basically, there's already a subclass for that. It's a school of necromancy wizard.
A lich only gets three necromancy spells in their stat block. The rest (cloudkill, finger of death, dominate monster, etc.) come from other schools of magic.
This is a fair, if unsatisfying response. I attribute it to my not articulating my desire and intention well enough. I still believe in this concept and I'm going to work on more specifics. If I come up with something, I will submit it for peer review in the homebrew forum.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sigh, now you'll have me hitting refresh on the homebrew forum repeatedly until I see your post, because I'm honestly curious as to what concept involves the ability to cast all spells of a particular school! :D
No, giving a subclass of any class the ability to cast all necromancy spells in addition to everything they can already do would likely be impossible to do in a balanced way and it wouldn't suit my intentions anyway. I'm leaning toward making a Necromancer variant of the Pact of the Undying warlock, since it already has pretty decent overlap with what I want. I am going to cherry-pick and modify a few of the perks of the school of necromancy wizard and pull in a few appropriate cleric spells too. When I feel like it's good enough to let you fine people rip it to shreds, I'll be sure to post it and see what becomes of it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Honestly, I'd be interested in seeing a Necromancer class inspired by the Necromancer in Diablo. Obviously that would require a ton of tweaking... although parts of Diablo are inspired by games like D&D, the focus is entirely different. But something in that vein focused on controlling a horde of disposable minions sounds potentially pretty fun (even if it would end up being a nightmare for the DM to track)
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I don't know anything about Diablo, but controlling a hoard of thousands on undead does not require any tweaking, just a lot of planning. I saw a YouTube video that calculated how many undead could be controlled RAW by a level 20 necromancer (I think it was dawnforgecast).