Most overpowered build is almost anything at level 20 created by a min-maxer. This covers a huge range of different builds. And if I was a DM, I wouldn't allow it. Campaigns are much better if they start at tier 1 and quickly move to tier 2 and end before they get to level 20. I would end every campaign before level 20.
All the wizard needs is the Shield spell, Invulnerability spell, and a basic blasting spell/cantrip, and they win.
Paladins multiclassed can deal much more damage. Especially Battlemaster Fighters 12, Heroism Paladin 5, and Zealot Barbarian 3
Shield spell? Lol.
you think that matters against level 20 Paladins?
basic blasting spell/cantrip? 👍👍👍
Invulnerability spell sure. Can be effective. For 10 minutes a day.
”danggit. My attacks aren’t effective. Guess I’ll stand here and watch him attack me until I die...”
you think it goes down like that? The invulnerability also only works against damage.
lets give you... a level 20 conquest paladin as an example. Even aside from that you have 8 dispel magic chances of dismissing invulnerability.
and shield spell doesn’t do much to help save them prior to it when conquest Paladins channel divinity can add a +10 to the attack.
So naturally starting distance and terrain will play a large effect. But invulnerability is the wizards NEED to have work to live. And they need to kill the paladin within that 10 mins (or less)
Conquest paladin is in no rush. Heroism a level 1 spell buys 1 minute at a time of 5 temp hp every 60 seconds. With a concentration save that’s not exactly hard for a paladin to hold on to. Good saves. Other spells that could choose to not use for dispel magic. Etc.
wizards survivability is based solely on invulnerability and gives it a time limit.
Now let’s throw another wrench into your thought. Say the conquest paladin via spells or channel divinity frightens the wizard. What then. You must take actions to dash. But your move speed is 0. Welcome to doing nothing. Meanwhile paladin can just do whatever it wants to do to prepare shit. Or even. Just walk up to the wizard. Contested check grab the wizards wand/focus/spell book. And destroy it.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Redemption paladin can literally wait it out. Not attacking. Until wizard exhausts all resources. Following the wizard around. And then decide to attack it violating their emissary of peace until next long rest and then just nova the wizard in an attack or 2.
All the wizard needs is the Shield spell, Invulnerability spell, and a basic blasting spell/cantrip, and they win.
Paladins multiclassed can deal much more damage. Especially Battlemaster Fighters 12, Heroism Paladin 5, and Zealot Barbarian 3
Shield spell? Lol.
you think that matters against level 20 Paladins?
basic blasting spell/cantrip? 👍👍👍
Invulnerability spell sure. Can be effective. For 10 minutes a day.
”danggit. My attacks aren’t effective. Guess I’ll stand here and watch him attack me until I die...”
you think it goes down like that? The invulnerability also only works against damage.
lets give you... a level 20 conquest paladin as an example. Even aside from that you have 8 dispel magic chances of dismissing invulnerability.
and shield spell doesn’t do much to help save them prior to it when conquest Paladins channel divinity can add a +10 to the attack.
So naturally starting distance and terrain will play a large effect. But invulnerability is the wizards NEED to have work to live. And they need to kill the paladin within that 10 mins (or less)
Conquest paladin is in no rush. Heroism a level 1 spell buys 1 minute at a time of 5 temp hp every 60 seconds. With a concentration save that’s not exactly hard for a paladin to hold on to. Good saves. Other spells that could choose to not use for dispel magic. Etc.
wizards survivability is based solely on invulnerability and gives it a time limit.
Now let’s throw another wrench into your thought. Say the conquest paladin via spells or channel divinity frightens the wizard. What then. You must take actions to dash. But your move speed is 0. Welcome to doing nothing. Meanwhile paladin can just do whatever it wants to do to prepare shit. Or even. Just walk up to the wizard. Contested check grab the wizards wand/focus/spell book. And destroy it.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Redemption paladin can literally wait it out. Not attacking. Until wizard exhausts all resources. Following the wizard around. And then decide to attack it violating their emissary of peace until next long rest and then just nova the wizard in an attack or 2.
Sure, a blasting wizard will have a problem but almost no wizard guide recommends that tactics. The advantages of wizards are with control.
I value Paladin's ability to nova-shot a main villain very high but similar thing can be said about a Divination Wizard with three low d20's who employs "scry-and-die" tactics, polymorphing the opponent into something harmless or turning them into stone.
In a PvP which this game is not designed for, Paladin wins when he wins initiative and is able to run up and attack in the same turn.
If there is more or the wizard wins initiative or the wizard has contingency with Dimension Door, then they can either cast Maze on Paladin or surround him with Forcecage to get more time to either prepare or teleport away - and then "scry-and-die" him.
^ and you hit the nail on the head. The wizards need a lot of things to go right.
the terrain matters a lot
winning initiative.
and Paladins failing saves (easier said than done).
lot of things need to go right for the wizard.
paladin. Just needs to get the hits in and make it count. And that’s it.
edit- forcecage. Also way more likely for success than invulnerability.
I'm not sure when or how this turned PvP, but whilst a level 20 Paladin is fun, they aren't really the most overpowered single classed. For your example, what would the conquest Paladin do if they couldn't actually reach the Wizard to hit them? What about when they've blown their CD?
A 20th level Paladin will most likely spend their first turn triggering their capstone, putting them one round behind immediately. How will you put down a Wizard under the effects of Mirror Image, Blur etc. whilst being able to Shield and Misty Step away at will? If you take it to PvP, which you seem to be doing, then few straight 20s will really hit hard enough for the seriously overpowered benchmark.
A wizard with prep would win easily. Just do Forcecage around them with a Glyph of Warding, and fill it with Cloudkill with another glyph of warding.
If they survive that, use any spell you have to get them below 100 hit points, then power word kill.
An unprepared wizard will use invulnerability, and use spells with high damage and battlefield control to knock out the paladin. Maybe summon some elementals to fight for them.
P.S. I also mentioned Shield, so if they need to block some key hits from the paladin, they can easily do so. Sure, conquest has a +10, but that is once in the fight that they can do it. Divination Wizards can just cause them to miss or fail a save multiple times in the combat.
Necromancy wizard can have literally hundreds of undead (above 1000 with prep), and then you can make it so you can kill him without having to cast a single spell on him.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
But, back to topic, not OP for damage, but Druid 3, Life cleric 1, is a master of healing, with goodberry and healing spirit. 40 points of healing from goodberry split up however you want with 4 health each berry, and Healing Spirit does 70 to each prepared party.
^ and you hit the nail on the head. The wizards need a lot of things to go right.
the terrain matters a lot
winning initiative.
and Paladins failing saves (easier said than done).
lot of things need to go right for the wizard.
paladin. Just needs to get the hits in and make it count. And that’s it.
edit- forcecage. Also way more likely for success than invulnerability.
I'm not sure when or how this turned PvP, but whilst a level 20 Paladin is fun, they aren't really the most overpowered single classed. For your example, what would the conquest Paladin do if they couldn't actually reach the Wizard to hit them? What about when they've blown their CD?
A 20th level Paladin will most likely spend their first turn triggering their capstone, putting them one round behind immediately. How will you put down a Wizard under the effects of Mirror Image, Blur etc. whilst being able to Shield and Misty Step away at will? If you take it to PvP, which you seem to be doing, then few straight 20s will really hit hard enough for the seriously overpowered benchmark.
A wizard with prep would win easily. Just do Forcecage around them with a Glyph of Warding, and fill it with Cloudkill with another glyph of warding.
If they survive that, use any spell you have to get them below 100 hit points, then power word kill.
An unprepared wizard will use invulnerability, and use spells with high damage and battlefield control to knock out the paladin. Maybe summon some elementals to fight for them.
P.S. I also mentioned Shield, so if they need to block some key hits from the paladin, they can easily do so. Sure, conquest has a +10, but that is once in the fight that they can do it. Divination Wizards can just cause them to miss or fail a save multiple times in the combat.
what is your most overpowered build you know? would you allow it as a dungeon master?
Serious answer:
5e has tons of broken overpowered builds. Would I allow them? Depends on if they detract from the fun of all the other PCs at the expense of only them having fun.
that. And only that. Is my factor for determining if I allow it or not. D&D is a “team” game, with cooperation. The second you are nova’ing everyone else out of playing essentially, and they aren’t having fun. Problem.
luckily.... you can see those situations coming from a mile away (like you’re a level 6 totem barbarian with aspect of the eagle). Good prep work as a DM gets rid of PROBLEM PLAYERS.
^ and you hit the nail on the head. The wizards need a lot of things to go right.
the terrain matters a lot
winning initiative.
and Paladins failing saves (easier said than done).
lot of things need to go right for the wizard.
paladin. Just needs to get the hits in and make it count. And that’s it.
edit- forcecage. Also way more likely for success than invulnerability.
I'm not sure when or how this turned PvP, but whilst a level 20 Paladin is fun, they aren't really the most overpowered single classed. For your example, what would the conquest Paladin do if they couldn't actually reach the Wizard to hit them? What about when they've blown their CD?
A 20th level Paladin will most likely spend their first turn triggering their capstone, putting them one round behind immediately. How will you put down a Wizard under the effects of Mirror Image, Blur etc. whilst being able to Shield and Misty Step away at will? If you take it to PvP, which you seem to be doing, then few straight 20s will really hit hard enough for the seriously overpowered benchmark.
Apologies, I missed that wombat originally said it, though you didn't actually address anything else in my post.
In regards to your views on Goodberries: There is no Healing Spell class of spells, Good Berry is a spell that can restore a tiny amount of health and thus qualifies as a spell for Disciple of life. That the berries last 24 hours has no bearing on the synergy. This is confirmed in Sage Advice compendium on Wizards site.
what is your most overpowered build you know? would you allow it as a dungeon master?
Most overpowered build is almost anything at level 20 created by a min-maxer. This covers a huge range of different builds. And if I was a DM, I wouldn't allow it. Campaigns are much better if they start at tier 1 and quickly move to tier 2 and end before they get to level 20. I would end every campaign before level 20.
Level 20 Paladins.
period.
Blank
Anything a player brings to the table that is from the homebrew wikipedia.
Create a Ranger with "preferred enemies = Gods & Demi-Gods"...............
When you find any, you'll see how OP is this Ranger against them... hehehehehehe
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
I think a level 20 Wizard could quite easily beat a level 20 Paladin.
You wish!
All the wizard needs is the Shield spell, Invulnerability spell, and a basic blasting spell/cantrip, and they win.
Paladins multiclassed can deal much more damage. Especially Battlemaster Fighters 12, Heroism Paladin 5, and Zealot Barbarian 3
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Shield spell? Lol.
you think that matters against level 20 Paladins?
basic blasting spell/cantrip? 👍👍👍
Invulnerability spell sure. Can be effective. For 10 minutes a day.
”danggit. My attacks aren’t effective. Guess I’ll stand here and watch him attack me until I die...”
you think it goes down like that? The invulnerability also only works against damage.
lets give you... a level 20 conquest paladin as an example. Even aside from that you have 8 dispel magic chances of dismissing invulnerability.
and shield spell doesn’t do much to help save them prior to it when conquest Paladins channel divinity can add a +10 to the attack.
So naturally starting distance and terrain will play a large effect. But invulnerability is the wizards NEED to have work to live. And they need to kill the paladin within that 10 mins (or less)
Conquest paladin is in no rush. Heroism a level 1 spell buys 1 minute at a time of 5 temp hp every 60 seconds. With a concentration save that’s not exactly hard for a paladin to hold on to. Good saves. Other spells that could choose to not use for dispel magic. Etc.
wizards survivability is based solely on invulnerability and gives it a time limit.
Now let’s throw another wrench into your thought. Say the conquest paladin via spells or channel divinity frightens the wizard. What then. You must take actions to dash. But your move speed is 0. Welcome to doing nothing. Meanwhile paladin can just do whatever it wants to do to prepare shit. Or even. Just walk up to the wizard. Contested check grab the wizards wand/focus/spell book. And destroy it.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Redemption paladin can literally wait it out. Not attacking. Until wizard exhausts all resources. Following the wizard around. And then decide to attack it violating their emissary of peace until next long rest and then just nova the wizard in an attack or 2.
Blank
Sure, a blasting wizard will have a problem but almost no wizard guide recommends that tactics. The advantages of wizards are with control.
I value Paladin's ability to nova-shot a main villain very high but similar thing can be said about a Divination Wizard with three low d20's who employs "scry-and-die" tactics, polymorphing the opponent into something harmless or turning them into stone.
In a PvP which this game is not designed for, Paladin wins when he wins initiative and is able to run up and attack in the same turn.
If there is more or the wizard wins initiative or the wizard has contingency with Dimension Door, then they can either cast Maze on Paladin or surround him with Forcecage to get more time to either prepare or teleport away - and then "scry-and-die" him.
^ and you hit the nail on the head. The wizards need a lot of things to go right.
the terrain matters a lot
winning initiative.
and Paladins failing saves (easier said than done).
lot of things need to go right for the wizard.
paladin. Just needs to get the hits in and make it count. And that’s it.
edit- forcecage. Also way more likely for success than invulnerability.
Blank
I'm not sure when or how this turned PvP, but whilst a level 20 Paladin is fun, they aren't really the most overpowered single classed. For your example, what would the conquest Paladin do if they couldn't actually reach the Wizard to hit them? What about when they've blown their CD?
A 20th level Paladin will most likely spend their first turn triggering their capstone, putting them one round behind immediately. How will you put down a Wizard under the effects of Mirror Image, Blur etc. whilst being able to Shield and Misty Step away at will? If you take it to PvP, which you seem to be doing, then few straight 20s will really hit hard enough for the seriously overpowered benchmark.
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A wizard with prep would win easily. Just do Forcecage around them with a Glyph of Warding, and fill it with Cloudkill with another glyph of warding.
If they survive that, use any spell you have to get them below 100 hit points, then power word kill.
An unprepared wizard will use invulnerability, and use spells with high damage and battlefield control to knock out the paladin. Maybe summon some elementals to fight for them.
P.S. I also mentioned Shield, so if they need to block some key hits from the paladin, they can easily do so. Sure, conquest has a +10, but that is once in the fight that they can do it. Divination Wizards can just cause them to miss or fail a save multiple times in the combat.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Necromancy wizard can have literally hundreds of undead (above 1000 with prep), and then you can make it so you can kill him without having to cast a single spell on him.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
But, back to topic, not OP for damage, but Druid 3, Life cleric 1, is a master of healing, with goodberry and healing spirit. 40 points of healing from goodberry split up however you want with 4 health each berry, and Healing Spirit does 70 to each prepared party.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I didn’t take it to PvP.
others did.
was what I said.
Blank
A paladin with prep...
prep goes 2 ways.
Blank
Serious answer:
5e has tons of broken overpowered builds. Would I allow them? Depends on if they detract from the fun of all the other PCs at the expense of only them having fun.
that. And only that. Is my factor for determining if I allow it or not. D&D is a “team” game, with cooperation. The second you are nova’ing everyone else out of playing essentially, and they aren’t having fun. Problem.
luckily.... you can see those situations coming from a mile away (like you’re a level 6 totem barbarian with aspect of the eagle). Good prep work as a DM gets rid of PROBLEM PLAYERS.
theres no problem build.
only problem players.
Blank
doesn’t work that way:
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st Level, your HealingSpells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st Level or higher to Restore Hit Points to a creature, the creature regains additional Hit Pointsequal to 2 + the spell’s level.
goodberry is 1. Not a healing spell.
and 2. Is not a spell to restore h it points.
3. The goodberries last more than 24 hours but then lose the properties of their fulfillment from food nourishment. And the 1 hp they give.
any DM that has been allowing this. Has been extremely lenient, or is being taken advantage of.
Blank
Apologies, I missed that wombat originally said it, though you didn't actually address anything else in my post.
In regards to your views on Goodberries: There is no Healing Spell class of spells, Good Berry is a spell that can restore a tiny amount of health and thus qualifies as a spell for Disciple of life. That the berries last 24 hours has no bearing on the synergy. This is confirmed in Sage Advice compendium on Wizards site.
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!