I have a Chronugy wizard with one level of Twilight cleric and the lucky feat that is pretty insane. But then again, just Twilight alone is pretty insane with longer line of sight in the dark than anything else in the game.
And an incredible spell list added on top of incredible abilities.
Peace is uip there too with the d4 ability that can stack with Bless....
2d4 to attacks saves at that early of a level just blows the bounded accuracy math out of the water.
A kobold level 5 bear totem barbarian/level 15 champion fighter with greatsword and great weapon master feat! Kobold pack tactics in an actual campaign comes up a lot giving you advantage but with barbarian reckless attack you get double advantage on all attacks with +11 to hit, but you then reduce that to double advantage with +6 to hit with great weapon master for +10 damage on top of rage damage and great weapon fighting style. Plus with champion fighter you get crits with a roll of 18-20 which gives you a better chance to crit allowing you to attack with bonus action on top of 3 attacks per turn with fighter extra attacks. This build might not be the most OP but is OP nonetheless.
A kobold level 5 bear totem barbarian/level 15 champion fighter with greatsword and great weapon master feat! Kobold pack tactics in an actual campaign comes up a lot giving you advantage but with barbarian reckless attack you get double advantage on all attacks with +11 to hit, but you then reduce that to double advantage with +6 to hit with great weapon master for +10 damage on top of rage damage and great weapon fighting style. Plus with champion fighter you get crits with a roll of 18-20 which gives you a better chance to crit allowing you to attack with bonus action on top of 3 attacks per turn with fighter extra attacks. This build might not be the most OP but is OP nonetheless.
19th level Illusionist / 1 lvl Rogue (with expertise in Deception and Stealth)
Most other optimized builds depend on charges or slots or the like. A 19th level Illusionist can have them waste those charges on illusions.
In a PvP with a fair, but strict, GM and the ability for the player of the Illusionist to pass notes to the GM, the opponent will never know what is real and what isn’t.
Did he just burn off the Illusionist’s Illusory Self or was that an Illusion?
Is that wall a Minor Image or a Creation spell with Malleable Illusion?
Is he actually hitting the Illusionist with his sword or is that a Phantasmal Force (and maybe a Helm of Telepathy)?
That’s not even getting into what Illusory Reality does.
Against Paladins? Let’s see what you can do Mr. “I used Int as my dump stat”.
Give him a Cloak of Displacement and make him a Gnome and he can soak 4 attacks while barely breaking a sweat (Displacement, Contingency + Mislead, Illusory Self, Fade Away), not including Simulacra, Programmed Illusion, Mirror Image, and other Shenanigans.
Don’t forget that Malleable Illusions does not break Invisibility, neither does Illusory Reality. That’s important for spells you can pre-cast and only need to alter (such as Creation, Major Image cast at 6th level, or Mirage Arcane).
A kobold level 5 bear totem barbarian/level 15 champion fighter with greatsword and great weapon master feat! Kobold pack tactics in an actual campaign comes up a lot giving you advantage but with barbarian reckless attack you get double advantage on all attacks with +11 to hit, but you then reduce that to double advantage with +6 to hit with great weapon master for +10 damage on top of rage damage and great weapon fighting style. Plus with champion fighter you get crits with a roll of 18-20 which gives you a better chance to crit allowing you to attack with bonus action on top of 3 attacks per turn with fighter extra attacks. This build might not be the most OP but is OP nonetheless.
Advantage does not stack my friend.
In addition a kobold cant use a greatsword effectively. Small races cant use heavy weapons well since they impose disadvantage on the atks. Since any source of adv and dis advantage together nullifies each other (regardless of the amount of sources of adv and dis) it would never be any atk at actual adv as far as rolling goes. You'd be a straight roll or dis.
what is your most overpowered build you know? would you allow it as a dungeon master?
Answer: Well what do you mean overpowered? Is being overpowered determined by how much damage the build can dish out, perhaps take in, or it being overpowered determined by its amount of hax or special abilities, maybe even the build ability to adapt to a variety of circumstances. For these builds I’m assuming all level 20.
So the most op nova builds I can think of are Seppuku Sniper Samurai, Eldritch Knight, Hexadin/Sorcadin/Sorcahexadin and that type of thing.
As for the most op tank builds I can think of are Moon Druid, Zealot Barbarian, among more specialized builds.
So for the most op hax builds I can think of Chronurgist Wizard, Divination Wizard, Lore Bard, and other more specialized builds.
The most op adaptive builds or more in this case classes those are the wizard, bard, and some cases druid.
But tbh the best class is wizard while I may say the “damage” numbers wise is low (mostly) but that is easily overcome but save or suck spells, strategies, and the overall power to outdo and outmaneuver their opponents.
As for tankiness spells like shield, invulnerability, and such can substitute being a tank although if a wizard wants to be tanky hobgoblin builds can become extreme tanks having up to 25 AC (using shield).
As for hax absolutely the wizard has the most hax as his spells are the most numerous.
TLDR: So blah blah blah wizards are blah blah the best blah blah ever and blah prep to blah blah become a blah blah blah blah God or Lich.
Side Note: Sorry for how the post looks but I think you got the point that a pure wizard is a most powerful build.
Answer: Hax is a special ability as opposed to just damage or otherwise.
and what's a Seppuku Sniper Samurai?
Answer: A Seppuku Sniper Samurai is a pure level 20 Samurai Fighter which revolves around the sniper committing suicide. By doing so they can then get an extra turn.
I made this post elsewhere about the build but I’ll just copy paste the first version of the build mind you that I’m pretty sure there were some revisions later on the forum to this build so do take that to mind as you read as it is still not perfect.
14, 17, 8, 8, 12, 16 (Tashas: +2 Cha now is +2 Dex and a +1 Str +1 Cha)
14, 20, 8, 8, 12, 16 (ASI: Total): The Reason for Strength is For Grapple (Shove Checks/Knock Prone), While The Wisdom bonus is for if the wizard uses temporal shunt.
This is assuming Fighter wins initiative with a +10 and lucky (Already Hard) against the Wizard.
Right Off the bat samurai casts hex and this is do two things ether for the wizard Counterspelling it stopping him from using shield or to deal more damage (1d6). Additionally, hex gives disadvantage on all checks linked to a stat (all Cha checks perhaps) but in this case that disadvantage is for dexterity (mostly for acrobatics to help stop the wizard from not getting shoved prone). After that he drops his component and draws his longbow walking within 5ft of the wizard. Then Action 4 attacks the first of which is a shove attack and the fighter makes a Athletics check while the wizard makes ether an Athletics (Low Strength) or Acrobatics (Dis if didn’t use Counterspell). From this we can assume a failure on the first try. The Wizard is now prone the Fighter gaining advantage on all of his shots (gunner: makes ranged attacks within 5ft not at disadvantage). Rest of attacks are shot (3 attacks) at triple adavantage (Elven Accuracy) +8 to hit (Archery/SS) dealing ether 1d8 + 15 or 1d8 + 1d6 + 15 damage. Action Surge: 3 more shots then seppuku/suicide. The samurai gets one Rapid strike that is ether SS or not but we are gonna assume sharpshooter.
Wizard is still prone. Action: 4 Attacks, Action Surge: 4 Attacks. The Samurai gets one Rapid Strike that is ether SS or not but we gonna assume again this is sharpshooter.
So best case damage wise (assuming all attacks hit and he didn’t counter hex): that is 16 attack (2 are rapid strikes) dealing 1d8 (4.5) + 1d6 (3.5) + 15 damage for an averaged damage per hit of 23 damage x 16 for around 368 damage.
And that is without even using any criticals (44 dice are rolled) so we could technically assume that we rolled at least 2 critical strikes. But we would still be leaving out piercer and it’s once a turn damage reroll and the extra damage dice on a crit. So piercer if we do that to say the rapid strikes they become 1d8 (Piercer: 4.9375 round up to 5) + 1d6 (3.5) + 15 for an average 23.5 damage. As for the crits I’ll just assume they are two dice attack damage worth of damage: 2d8 + 2d6 (16 extra damage). So if we do that the new total is 385 damage.
But now assuming we hit but don’t have hex total of 18d6 (it’s 18 due to the crit otherwise it’s be 16) from hex that comes out 18d6 (3.5) = average of 63 damage. So without hex the average damage is 322.
Now we can assume ether two AC amounts: Statuses
AC 23: 13 Mage Armor, +5 Dex, +5 Shield and Hexed: 385 average damage: Chance to hit: 65.7%, 385 x 65.7% = 252.945 (253) damage on average taking in account chance to hit.
OR AC 18: Mage Armor, +5 Dex, No Shield or Hex: 322 average damage: Chance to hit: 90.88%, 322 x 90.88% = 292.63 (293) damage on average taking in account chance to hit.
what is your most overpowered build you know? would you allow it as a dungeon master?
Answer: Well what do you mean overpowered? Is being overpowered determined by how much damage the build can dish out, perhaps take in, or it being overpowered determined by its amount of hax or special abilities, maybe even the build ability to adapt to a variety of circumstances. For these builds I’m assuming all level 20
That's a legit question. Having a character that doesn't do much damage but can affect the roll of a die more than 3-4 times an encounter might still be considered OP depending on the style of the campaign and GM.
Gotta say the new nathair's mischief spell with a level 6 illusion wizard is pretty fun. 2 uses of the spell a turn is pretty nice (not OP but still pretty strong)
what is your most overpowered build you know? would you allow it as a dungeon master?
Serious answer:
5e has tons of broken overpowered builds. Would I allow them? Depends on if they detract from the fun of all the other PCs at the expense of only them having fun.
that. And only that. Is my factor for determining if I allow it or not. D&D is a “team” game, with cooperation. The second you are nova’ing everyone else out of playing essentially, and they aren’t having fun. Problem.
luckily.... you can see those situations coming from a mile away (like you’re a level 6 totem barbarian with aspect of the eagle). Good prep work as a DM gets rid of PROBLEM PLAYERS.
theres no problem build.
only problem players.
There are problem builds-personally I see the Sorlock as the only full gamebreaker, and some people assume that the Paladin warlock lets you recover all of your spell slots, not just Paladin ones-that's misiterpretting it. However, I know of exactly 0 other gamebreakers besides these(and wish, see below). Problem players do exist, and I do agree that you can see these problems comming.
^ and you hit the nail on the head. The wizards need a lot of things to go right.
the terrain matters a lot
winning initiative.
and Paladins failing saves (easier said than done).
lot of things need to go right for the wizard.
paladin. Just needs to get the hits in and make it count. And that’s it.
edit- forcecage. Also way more likely for success than invulnerability.
Can you guys stop the PvP thing? Paladins 20s are great, Wizard 20s are great, but you're missing the "three pillars of the game". A Wizard would have martial allies if these two ever fought. And all of these variables are ruining the idea. Please STOP.
wish is broken. The player wishes to destroy the main villain, the DM either allows it or sends the character forward in time to where the villain is dead. The copying a 8th or lower level spell is still kind of broken. I'm not going to go to far into this, but what if you treated wish like divine intervention and had a spell 1st to 8th(or ever 9th) manifest instead? Tell the players ahead of time, and:
Bob(playing a level 18 wizard): "I cast wish to kill the villain"
You(DM): That manifests as power word kill. The villain shrieks as he dies, falling to the ground."(or "the villain is too powerful, resisting even your wish!
^ and you hit the nail on the head. The wizards need a lot of things to go right.
the terrain matters a lot
winning initiative.
and Paladins failing saves (easier said than done).
lot of things need to go right for the wizard.
paladin. Just needs to get the hits in and make it count. And that’s it.
edit- forcecage. Also way more likely for success than invulnerability.
I'm not sure when or how this turned PvP
I'm not sure.
Can you guys stop the PvP thing? Paladins 20s are great, Wizard 20s are great, but you're missing the "three pillars of the game". And a Wizard would have martial allies if these two ever fought. And all of these variables are ruining the idea. Please STOP.
Wizards are the most op because they can be immortal from the clone spell, have infinite GP from the true polymorph spell, and can nuke cities with the meteor swarm spell.
Wizards are the most op because they can be immortal from the clone spell, have infinite GP from the true polymorph spell, and can nuke cities with the meteor swarm spell.
Immortality, infinite HP, and nuking are all doable by a level 20 druid with storm of vengeance(a lesser known druidic 9th level Spell Of Mass Destruction). Honestly, wizards are not much better at level 20 than "barbarians break the strength 20 limit". Moon druids, Barbarian/Druids, and coffeelocks are the strongest builds.
Wizards certainly have the best theoretical power with their spell list.
Clone, Immortality, Simulacrum, Glyph of Warding, Wish, Contingency, Resilient Sphere, Forcecage, Sickening Radiance, Wall of Force, Demiplane, etc.
Although a level 18 wizard is basically just as good as a level 20 wizard so your point on not being better than breaking the STR 20 limit is... well yeah wizards have a terrible capstone because of their level 18 feature & wish.
Coffeelocks at high level play will definitely do better in the advised 6-8 combats adventuring day on the behalf of having infinite spell slots, but i imagine that benefit diminishes with less combats. Granted, a wizard can do essentially the same thing with Wish & Simulacrum, or Demiplane + Glyph of Warding, but we don't talk about that.
Moon Druids are easily cheesed. A clone is much more reliable. Barbarian/Druid is a build for lower tiers not level 20 (although they aren't bad, just better in lower tiers cause missing out on Archdruid hurts).
Generally speaking though wizards want to multiclass 2/3 levels. What you multiclass into depends on what you want, cause wizards are generally powerful enough they don't really need the multiclass, but hey more power is more power.
I will admit though, a lot of a wizard's power is determined by their wealth and prep-time with stuff like Glyph of Warding and Simulacrum, having Wish does help though. Also over the course of a long adventuring day, wizards would eventually fall behind after enough combats.
Wizards certainly have the best theoretical power with their spell list.
Clone, Immortality, Simulacrum, Glyph of Warding, Wish, Contingency, Resilient Sphere, Forcecage, Sickening Radiance, Wall of Force, Demiplane, etc.
Answer: Yea their spell list has the most spells and a great amount of utility and great choices it’s amazing.
Although a level 18 wizard is basically just as good as a level 20 wizard so your point on not being better than breaking the STR 20 limit is... well yeah wizards have a terrible capstone because of their level 18 feature & wish.
Answer: Yeah the last two levels of wizard are lame but be honest in a way Wish is their capstone and as for the last two levels you could always get Fighter for action surge and perhaps some armor proficiency and such but since wizard has mage armor, armor may not be the most important thing.
Coffeelocks at high level play will definitely do better in the advised 6-8 combats adventuring day on the behalf of having infinite spell slots, but i imagine that benefit diminishes with less combats. Granted, a wizard can do essentially the same thing with Wish & Simulacrum, or Demiplane + Glyph of Warding, but we don't talk about that.
Answer: Haha yeah and this is still ignoring the fact that at high levels wizards can quite literally become practically an ancient dragon and keep their spells by doing some high level shenanigans with magic jar, true polymorph, clone, simulacrum, your choice of aging and such that at that point the coffeelock’s ability for infinite spell slots seems weak in comparison (the best example as shown above is by becoming a permanent an ancient spellcasting gold shadow dragon). Anyway what I am trying to say is that wizards at such a high level have too many possibilities that besides literally throwing them in a white room your chance of killing them is nigh impossible and even then it is still never in your favour.
Moon Druids are easily cheesed.
Answer: Haha yeah. “I cast power word: kill.”
A clone is much more reliable.
Answer: Clone is great and as you say more reliable and in the wizards hand it is incredibly reliable in that you can trap your clones and hold them in a secret demiplane.
Barbarian/Druid is a build for lower tiers not level 20 (although they aren't bad, just better in lower tiers cause missing out on Archdruid hurts).
Answer yeah they aren’t the best late game build like sure they have their niche but at layers levels other builds can put tank them and are just better
Generally speaking though wizards want to multiclass 2/3 levels. What you multiclass into depends on what you want, cause wizards are generally powerful enough they don't really need the multiclass, but hey more power is more power.
Answer: I don’t know about the 3 levels into multiclass as personally I find getting an at will 1st, and 2nd level spell is quite great especially if the 1st level one is shield and the second is like Misty step.
I will admit though, a lot of a wizard's power is determined by their wealth and prep-time with stuff like Glyph of Warding and Simulacrum, having Wish does help though.
Answer: Wealth I don’t see a problem for a high level wizard since at that point especially if your an adventurer of which you would most likely be of great renown for probably saving the world like twice or endangering the world twice either way money isn’t that much of a problem and if you have stuff like planar binding you can get a bunch of powerful subordinates and have enough people to get you money. As for prep time easily enough to get even in battle as not only you said but wish exists and so does time stop and the ability to just leave and get the time you need.
Also over the course of a long adventuring day, wizards would eventually fall behind after enough combats.
Answer: Well Arcane Recovery, Preped spells (Glyph of warding and such as you say), simulacrum and sooo much more means that in reality wizards can hold out for very long if not forever since you can just wish and get a simulacrum. And this is not even considering the fact that they can become and ancient spellcasting dragon.
Do tell if I missed something, misinterpreted, or misread something.
Wizards certainly have the best theoretical power with their spell list.
Clone, Immortality, Simulacrum, Glyph of Warding, Wish, Contingency, Resilient Sphere, Forcecage, Sickening Radiance, Wall of Force, Demiplane, etc.
Although a level 18 wizard is basically just as good as a level 20 wizard so your point on not being better than breaking the STR 20 limit is... well yeah wizards have a terrible capstone because of their level 18 feature & wish.
This is true...
Coffeelocks at high level play will definitely do better in the advised 6-8 combats adventuring day on the behalf of having infinite spell slots, but i imagine that benefit diminishes with less combats. Granted, a wizard can do essentially the same thing with Wish & Simulacrum, or Demiplane + Glyph of Warding, but we don't talk about that.
I agree with this as well
Moon Druids are easily cheesed. A clone is much more reliable. Barbarian/Druid is a build for lower tiers not level 20 (although they aren't bad, just better in lower tiers cause missing out on Archdruid hurts).
"Cheesed" doesn't cover INFINITE WILD SHAPES. Actually, moon druids are good at levels 2-4 in addition to level 20 because getting to morph into two 50 HP creatures per long rest is pretty awesome at those levels
Also, don't give me polymorph, polymorph burns up your spell slot for HP(that a moon druid can cure wounds at high level to match) and then you get damage-oh, wait a moment, moon druids deal a bunch of damage.
Generally speaking though wizards want to multiclass 2/3 levels. What you multiclass into depends on what you want, cause wizards are generally powerful enough they don't really need the multiclass, but hey more power is more power.
I think the only reason to go 2-3 levels into wizard is Abjurer Arcane Shroud. And multiclassing out of wizard loses the entire point where you theoretically have all these high-level spells.
I will admit though, a lot of a wizard's power is determined by their wealth and prep-time with stuff like Glyph of Warding and Simulacrum, having Wish does help though. Also over the course of a long adventuring day, wizards would eventually fall behind after enough combats.
I would probably not allow clone in a campaign I DM, but I haven't ever DMed or played 15th level or higher, so I've never seen it used.
That is a stupid trick. There is no offical FAQ about this, but while this is Rules As Written, it is very unlikely Rules As Intended and not Rules As Fun. This is as allowed as a coffeelock(technically allowed, but ruins the point)
Power word kill is a 9th level spell tha kills a single creature outright if its hit points are within a relatively generous limit. Compare storm of vengeance which can devastate a civilization, meteor swarm that can annihilate swathes of lesser legendary (11 hit dice) creatures, and even earthquake, a slightly lower leveled spell that can demolish a city block.
For how acutely focused this spell is, it ought to do its job really well.
If it's too cheesy for Moon Druids, death ward negates it and revivify undoes it.
That is a stupid trick. There is no offical FAQ about this, but while this is Rules As Written, it is very unlikely Rules As Intended and not Rules As Fun. This is as allowed as a coffeelock(technically allowed, but ruins the point)
Answer: It not some “stupid trick” it is literally how the spell works and how it is intended (and the reason they changed Disintegrate was so it wasn’t like a lvl 7 Power Word Kill in that it could do what Power Word Kill could do but sometimes even better) . You ask for an FAQ how about you read the spell or see Jermey’s Sage Advice in that he and the spell show that it’s not reducing you to 0hp it just kills you as such it works against polymorph, Wolf shape and the such since instead of damage dealt it has the condition of 100 hp or less to die.
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Peace is uip there too with the d4 ability that can stack with Bless....
2d4 to attacks saves at that early of a level just blows the bounded accuracy math out of the water.
A kobold level 5 bear totem barbarian/level 15 champion fighter with greatsword and great weapon master feat! Kobold pack tactics in an actual campaign comes up a lot giving you advantage but with barbarian reckless attack you get double advantage on all attacks with +11 to hit, but you then reduce that to double advantage with +6 to hit with great weapon master for +10 damage on top of rage damage and great weapon fighting style. Plus with champion fighter you get crits with a roll of 18-20 which gives you a better chance to crit allowing you to attack with bonus action on top of 3 attacks per turn with fighter extra attacks. This build might not be the most OP but is OP nonetheless.
Advantage does not stack my friend.
19th level Illusionist / 1 lvl Rogue (with expertise in Deception and Stealth)
Most other optimized builds depend on charges or slots or the like. A 19th level Illusionist can have them waste those charges on illusions.
In a PvP with a fair, but strict, GM and the ability for the player of the Illusionist to pass notes to the GM, the opponent will never know what is real and what isn’t.
Did he just burn off the Illusionist’s Illusory Self or was that an Illusion?
Is that wall a Minor Image or a Creation spell with Malleable Illusion?
Is he actually hitting the Illusionist with his sword or is that a Phantasmal Force (and maybe a Helm of Telepathy)?
That’s not even getting into what Illusory Reality does.
Against Paladins? Let’s see what you can do Mr. “I used Int as my dump stat”.
Give him a Cloak of Displacement and make him a Gnome and he can soak 4 attacks while barely breaking a sweat (Displacement, Contingency + Mislead, Illusory Self, Fade Away), not including Simulacra, Programmed Illusion, Mirror Image, and other Shenanigans.
Don’t forget that Malleable Illusions does not break Invisibility, neither does Illusory Reality. That’s important for spells you can pre-cast and only need to alter (such as Creation, Major Image cast at 6th level, or Mirage Arcane).
In addition a kobold cant use a greatsword effectively. Small races cant use heavy weapons well since they impose disadvantage on the atks. Since any source of adv and dis advantage together nullifies each other (regardless of the amount of sources of adv and dis) it would never be any atk at actual adv as far as rolling goes. You'd be a straight roll or dis.
Answer: Well what do you mean overpowered? Is being overpowered determined by how much damage the build can dish out, perhaps take in, or it being overpowered determined by its amount of hax or special abilities, maybe even the build ability to adapt to a variety of circumstances. For these builds I’m assuming all level 20.
So the most op nova builds I can think of are Seppuku Sniper Samurai, Eldritch Knight, Hexadin/Sorcadin/Sorcahexadin and that type of thing.
As for the most op tank builds I can think of are Moon Druid, Zealot Barbarian, among more specialized builds.
So for the most op hax builds I can think of Chronurgist Wizard, Divination Wizard, Lore Bard, and other more specialized builds.
The most op adaptive builds or more in this case classes those are the wizard, bard, and some cases druid.
But tbh the best class is wizard while I may say the “damage” numbers wise is low (mostly) but that is easily overcome but save or suck spells, strategies, and the overall power to outdo and outmaneuver their opponents.
As for tankiness spells like shield, invulnerability, and such can substitute being a tank although if a wizard wants to be tanky hobgoblin builds can become extreme tanks having up to 25 AC (using shield).
As for hax absolutely the wizard has the most hax as his spells are the most numerous.
TLDR: So blah blah blah wizards are blah blah the best blah blah ever and blah prep to blah blah become a blah blah blah blah God or Lich.
Side Note: Sorry for how the post looks but I think you got the point that a pure wizard is a most powerful build.
What does "hax" mean and what's a Seppuku Sniper Samurai?
Answer: Hax is a special ability as opposed to just damage or otherwise.
Answer: A Seppuku Sniper Samurai is a pure level 20 Samurai Fighter which revolves around the sniper committing suicide. By doing so they can then get an extra turn.
I made this post elsewhere about the build but I’ll just copy paste the first version of the build mind you that I’m pretty sure there were some revisions later on the forum to this build so do take that to mind as you read as it is still not perfect.
The Original Build is:
Fighter (Fighting Style: Archery), Level 20, Samuri, Half Elf, 7 ASI’s:
13, 15, 8, 8, 12, 15 (Point Buy)
14, 17, 8, 8, 12, 16 (Tashas: +2 Cha now is +2 Dex and a +1 Str +1 Cha)
14, 20, 8, 8, 12, 16 (ASI: Total): The Reason for Strength is For Grapple (Shove Checks/Knock Prone), While The Wisdom bonus is for if the wizard uses temporal shunt.
ASI’s: Piercer (+1 Dex), Gunner (+1 Dex), Elven Accuracy (+1 Dex), Alert (+5 Initiative), Lucky (3 Rerolls), Sharpshooter and Magic Initiate (Hex).
Equipment: Longbow, Ammunition, And Focus/Material Components for Hex (You are already holding the Components).
Round One: TLDR: 1 Shove, 6 Attacks, 1 Seppuku, 1 Rapid Strike
This is assuming Fighter wins initiative with a +10 and lucky (Already Hard) against the Wizard.
Right Off the bat samurai casts hex and this is do two things ether for the wizard Counterspelling it stopping him from using shield or to deal more damage (1d6). Additionally, hex gives disadvantage on all checks linked to a stat (all Cha checks perhaps) but in this case that disadvantage is for dexterity (mostly for acrobatics to help stop the wizard from not getting shoved prone). After that he drops his component and draws his longbow walking within 5ft of the wizard. Then Action 4 attacks the first of which is a shove attack and the fighter makes a Athletics check while the wizard makes ether an Athletics (Low Strength) or Acrobatics (Dis if didn’t use Counterspell). From this we can assume a failure on the first try. The Wizard is now prone the Fighter gaining advantage on all of his shots (gunner: makes ranged attacks within 5ft not at disadvantage). Rest of attacks are shot (3 attacks) at triple adavantage (Elven Accuracy) +8 to hit (Archery/SS) dealing ether 1d8 + 15 or 1d8 + 1d6 + 15 damage. Action Surge: 3 more shots then seppuku/suicide. The samurai gets one Rapid strike that is ether SS or not but we are gonna assume sharpshooter.
Extra Turn: Strength Beyond Death, TLDR: 8 Attacks, 1 Rapid Strike
Wizard is still prone. Action: 4 Attacks, Action Surge: 4 Attacks. The Samurai gets one Rapid Strike that is ether SS or not but we gonna assume again this is sharpshooter.
So best case damage wise (assuming all attacks hit and he didn’t counter hex): that is 16 attack (2 are rapid strikes) dealing 1d8 (4.5) + 1d6 (3.5) + 15 damage for an averaged damage per hit of 23 damage x 16 for around 368 damage.
And that is without even using any criticals (44 dice are rolled) so we could technically assume that we rolled at least 2 critical strikes. But we would still be leaving out piercer and it’s once a turn damage reroll and the extra damage dice on a crit. So piercer if we do that to say the rapid strikes they become 1d8 (Piercer: 4.9375 round up to 5) + 1d6 (3.5) + 15 for an average 23.5 damage. As for the crits I’ll just assume they are two dice attack damage worth of damage: 2d8 + 2d6 (16 extra damage). So if we do that the new total is 385 damage.
But now assuming we hit but don’t have hex total of 18d6 (it’s 18 due to the crit otherwise it’s be 16) from hex that comes out 18d6 (3.5) = average of 63 damage. So without hex the average damage is 322.
Now we can assume ether two AC amounts: Statuses
AC 23: 13 Mage Armor, +5 Dex, +5 Shield and Hexed:
385 average damage: Chance to hit: 65.7%, 385 x 65.7% = 252.945 (253) damage on average taking in account chance to hit.
OR AC 18: Mage Armor, +5 Dex, No Shield or Hex:
322 average damage: Chance to hit: 90.88%, 322 x 90.88% = 292.63 (293) damage on average taking in account chance to hit.
Y'all should create these characters and take them to DNDcombat.com at let its AI engine duke it out! lol
(it's not very nuanced, but it's kinda fun to"watch")
That's a legit question. Having a character that doesn't do much damage but can affect the roll of a die more than 3-4 times an encounter might still be considered OP depending on the style of the campaign and GM.
Gotta say the new nathair's mischief spell with a level 6 illusion wizard is pretty fun. 2 uses of the spell a turn is pretty nice (not OP but still pretty strong)
There are problem builds-personally I see the Sorlock as the only full gamebreaker, and some people assume that the Paladin warlock lets you recover all of your spell slots, not just Paladin ones-that's misiterpretting it. However, I know of exactly 0 other gamebreakers besides these(and wish, see below). Problem players do exist, and I do agree that you can see these problems comming.
Can you guys stop the PvP thing? Paladins 20s are great, Wizard 20s are great, but you're missing the "three pillars of the game". A Wizard would have martial allies if these two ever fought. And all of these variables are ruining the idea. Please STOP.
wish is broken. The player wishes to destroy the main villain, the DM either allows it or sends the character forward in time to where the villain is dead. The copying a 8th or lower level spell is still kind of broken. I'm not going to go to far into this, but what if you treated wish like divine intervention and had a spell 1st to 8th(or ever 9th) manifest instead? Tell the players ahead of time, and:
Bob(playing a level 18 wizard): "I cast wish to kill the villain"
You(DM): That manifests as power word kill. The villain shrieks as he dies, falling to the ground."(or "the villain is too powerful, resisting even your wish!
I'm not sure.
Can you guys stop the PvP thing? Paladins 20s are great, Wizard 20s are great, but you're missing the "three pillars of the game". And a Wizard would have martial allies if these two ever fought. And all of these variables are ruining the idea. Please STOP.
Wizards are the most op because they can be immortal from the clone spell, have infinite GP from the true polymorph spell, and can nuke cities with the meteor swarm spell.
Immortality, infinite HP, and nuking are all doable by a level 20 druid with storm of vengeance(a lesser known druidic 9th level Spell Of Mass Destruction). Honestly, wizards are not much better at level 20 than "barbarians break the strength 20 limit". Moon druids, Barbarian/Druids, and coffeelocks are the strongest builds.
Wizards certainly have the best theoretical power with their spell list.
Clone, Immortality, Simulacrum, Glyph of Warding, Wish, Contingency, Resilient Sphere, Forcecage, Sickening Radiance, Wall of Force, Demiplane, etc.
Although a level 18 wizard is basically just as good as a level 20 wizard so your point on not being better than breaking the STR 20 limit is... well yeah wizards have a terrible capstone because of their level 18 feature & wish.
Coffeelocks at high level play will definitely do better in the advised 6-8 combats adventuring day on the behalf of having infinite spell slots, but i imagine that benefit diminishes with less combats. Granted, a wizard can do essentially the same thing with Wish & Simulacrum, or Demiplane + Glyph of Warding, but we don't talk about that.
Moon Druids are easily cheesed. A clone is much more reliable. Barbarian/Druid is a build for lower tiers not level 20 (although they aren't bad, just better in lower tiers cause missing out on Archdruid hurts).
Generally speaking though wizards want to multiclass 2/3 levels. What you multiclass into depends on what you want, cause wizards are generally powerful enough they don't really need the multiclass, but hey more power is more power.
I will admit though, a lot of a wizard's power is determined by their wealth and prep-time with stuff like Glyph of Warding and Simulacrum, having Wish does help though. Also over the course of a long adventuring day, wizards would eventually fall behind after enough combats.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Answer: Yea their spell list has the most spells and a great amount of utility and great choices it’s amazing.
Answer: Yeah the last two levels of wizard are lame but be honest in a way Wish is their capstone and as for the last two levels you could always get Fighter for action surge and perhaps some armor proficiency and such but since wizard has mage armor, armor may not be the most important thing.
Answer: Haha yeah and this is still ignoring the fact that at high levels wizards can quite literally become practically an ancient dragon and keep their spells by doing some high level shenanigans with magic jar, true polymorph, clone, simulacrum, your choice of aging and such that at that point the coffeelock’s ability for infinite spell slots seems weak in comparison (the best example as shown above is by becoming a permanent an ancient spellcasting gold shadow dragon). Anyway what I am trying to say is that wizards at such a high level have too many possibilities that besides literally throwing them in a white room your chance of killing them is nigh impossible and even then it is still never in your favour.
Answer: Haha yeah. “I cast power word: kill.”
Answer: Clone is great and as you say more reliable and in the wizards hand it is incredibly reliable in that you can trap your clones and hold them in a secret demiplane.
Answer yeah they aren’t the best late game build like sure they have their niche but at layers levels other builds can put tank them and are just better
Answer: I don’t know about the 3 levels into multiclass as personally I find getting an at will 1st, and 2nd level spell is quite great especially if the 1st level one is shield and the second is like Misty step.
Answer: Wealth I don’t see a problem for a high level wizard since at that point especially if your an adventurer of which you would most likely be of great renown for probably saving the world like twice or endangering the world twice either way money isn’t that much of a problem and if you have stuff like planar binding you can get a bunch of powerful subordinates and have enough people to get you money. As for prep time easily enough to get even in battle as not only you said but wish exists and so does time stop and the ability to just leave and get the time you need.
Answer: Well Arcane Recovery, Preped spells (Glyph of warding and such as you say), simulacrum and sooo much more means that in reality wizards can hold out for very long if not forever since you can just wish and get a simulacrum. And this is not even considering the fact that they can become and ancient spellcasting dragon.
Do tell if I missed something, misinterpreted, or misread something.
This is true...
I agree with this as well
"Cheesed" doesn't cover INFINITE WILD SHAPES. Actually, moon druids are good at levels 2-4 in addition to level 20 because getting to morph into two 50 HP creatures per long rest is pretty awesome at those levels
Also, don't give me polymorph, polymorph burns up your spell slot for HP(that a moon druid can cure wounds at high level to match) and then you get damage-oh, wait a moment, moon druids deal a bunch of damage.
I think the only reason to go 2-3 levels into wizard is Abjurer Arcane Shroud. And multiclassing out of wizard loses the entire point where you theoretically have all these high-level spells.
I would probably not allow clone in a campaign I DM, but I haven't ever DMed or played 15th level or higher, so I've never seen it used.
That is a stupid trick. There is no offical FAQ about this, but while this is Rules As Written, it is very unlikely Rules As Intended and not Rules As Fun. This is as allowed as a coffeelock(technically allowed, but ruins the point)
Power word kill is a 9th level spell tha kills a single creature outright if its hit points are within a relatively generous limit. Compare storm of vengeance which can devastate a civilization, meteor swarm that can annihilate swathes of lesser legendary (11 hit dice) creatures, and even earthquake, a slightly lower leveled spell that can demolish a city block.
For how acutely focused this spell is, it ought to do its job really well.
If it's too cheesy for Moon Druids, death ward negates it and revivify undoes it.
Answer: It not some “stupid trick” it is literally how the spell works and how it is intended (and the reason they changed Disintegrate was so it wasn’t like a lvl 7 Power Word Kill in that it could do what Power Word Kill could do but sometimes even better) . You ask for an FAQ how about you read the spell or see Jermey’s Sage Advice in that he and the spell show that it’s not reducing you to 0hp it just kills you as such it works against polymorph, Wolf shape and the such since instead of damage dealt it has the condition of 100 hp or less to die.