I would hesitate to go cleric instead. While it does use wis, it'd require a much greater investment before I could really use it to heal any significant amounts of damage. At just 2 levels, I'd still only get 3 level one spell slots, only able to heal d4s and d8s at a time, which wouldn't do much to get me out of a tight spot. If I was down to the single digits, I'd more likely want to go down swinging on the off chance I can kill the enemies before they kill me. I would really have to go half cleric half monk to really make a cleric multiclass worthwhile.
That's also why I chose Open Hand, three times my monk level of healing (starting at level 11) on an action per long rest is pretty good, and if I need much more than that I'll probably die anyways.
Not to mention, by going cleric instead of wizard, you lose out on a lot of the utility it brings with it via ritual casting and especially familiars. Not to mention it doesn't present anything that matches Portent for useful class features.
My thinking is that if I can, I'll start Monk 10 (for the 30hp Wholeness of Body heal)/Wiz 1, and then my next level up I'll take Wiz 2. That is, again, if I roll well enough to make the 13int prerequisite. I might not.
You are starting at level 10? Or you mean go to level 10 then start Wizard?
The question asked was, "how 'bout dipping for Portent on a monk?," and others have jumped in to say "no, because you can't afford 13 intelligence." I've been posting to demonstrate that 13 intelligence is not very expensive to buy if one simply tempers one's Constitution target by a few points, to which others have replied that that's unspeakable, to which I've replied that it isn't and you can tank it even harder with few ill effects. That's all on-topic, but thanks for the opportunity to recap!
Portent is very good, but even better than being good, it is unique. There are no other abilities in the game that let you say "decide whether yourself or another creatures succeeds or fails on any check, save, or attack," but with a low and a high roll at the start of the day, that's what Portent is. That's bigger than a few hit points. It's even bigger than a few points one way or the other on your attacks or saves. It's enough to construct an entire build around, it's enough to justify almost any sacrifice! Stunning Fist is good... but a Stunning Fist that can't be saved against is better, and fundamentally changes the way that one or two combats per day work for that character.
An [Anything]/Divination Wizard 2 is a powerful and unpredictable character that is going to get to "gotcha" the DM again and again and again. Tired takes like "but that will potentially cost you 1 HP/level!" or "but that slows down your progression by two levels" need not apply, because people can and do multiclass for far less game changing reasons than Portent provides.
And on a solo character, Portent is even more important. There's fewer opportunities to say "I'll step back and let the other guys handle this," the spotlight is on you, every time. In a group, Portent might let you succeed at something that one of your party members would have otherwise tried and succeeded at. Or it might help you disable an enemy that otherwise the rest of your party would have had to deal with. But solo, the ability to know you'll do well on something, or to know you can force an enemy (any enemy) to perform badly at something? Its a big safety net, and makes you more versatile, and less exposed to 'one bad roll' being the end of your path with no back up to save you.
Portent is more valuable than a feat. It's more valuable than a Constitution modifier being 1 or 2 higher. It's more valuable than a couple levels of whatever other class you're focusing on. It's probably one of the single strongest/weirdest abilities in the entire game. And the fact that you just so happen by the way to be picking up rituals, Shield, Absorb Elements?? Come on my dudes, the tendency of others in this thread to poopoo it merely because it deviates from what "most players" would pick is frankly shortsighted and indefensible on paper or in practice.
No, that is not what people have said. Can you sto with your ridiculous strawman arguments. You're whole arguument is objectively flawed and in now way corresponds to neither what people has said nor what Portent actually does. First of all, you literally can't do it "again and again and again". You can do it once, and then once more again for that day. And you entire strategy hinges on you actually making useful rolls and are able to use them at the exact right moment. Your whole argument falls to pieces if you don't happen to roll the numbers you need or if you (which is very likely) happen to have already used the wrong number. The simple reason that you actually do not "the ability to know you'll do well on something, or to know you can force an enemy (any enemy) to perform badly at something" (since you have to roll for your portent) is another flaw in your argument.
Fact is, the answer to the question "is a two level dip for the sole purpose of gaining Portent a good move for Monks?" is simply "no, it is not". Sure, if you can afford the Int tax to gain a bunch of other useful spells and cantrips (which you can only use a short few times each day) might sometimes be a good move but portent alone? No thanks.
I would hesitate to go cleric instead. While it does use wis, it'd require a much greater investment before I could really use it to heal any significant amounts of damage. At just 2 levels, I'd still only get 3 level one spell slots, only able to heal d4s and d8s at a time, which wouldn't do much to get me out of a tight spot. If I was down to the single digits, I'd more likely want to go down swinging on the off chance I can kill the enemies before they kill me, or run and try to hide someplace I might be able to short rest. I would really have to go half cleric half monk to really make a cleric multiclass worthwhile.
That's also why I chose Open Hand. Three times my monk level of healing (starting at level 11) on an action per long rest is a pretty decent emergency button, and if I need much more than that I'll probably die anyways.
Not to mention, by going cleric instead of wizard, you lose out on a lot of the utility it brings with it via ritual casting and especially familiars. Not to mention it doesn't present anything that matches Portent for useful/unique class features.
My thinking is that if I can, I'll start Monk 10 (for the 30hp Wholeness of Body heal)/Wiz 1, and then my next level up I'll take Wiz 2. That is, again, if I roll well enough to make the 13int prerequisite. I might not.
If you want to do, do it. It can be a fun build. But Portent isn't the fantastical super power that some people try to make it out to be. You have to roll for it each day which means that if you rolled good yesterday but didn't use them you can't save those roll for another day. If you happen to roll mediocre rolls you might not have a good use for them and then there still is the problem of knowing when to use them. :/
I suggest taking buff spells and other spells that don't rely on your spell casting ability to be reliable.
Portent tends to level out in usefulness in that, either being useful or not, you can roll well which you can use to sub your own rolls, you can roll badly which you can force on enemies, or you can roll meh, but when you do roll not great but not bad, you can still use those in cases where maybe might fail but don't want to fail super hard, or where you think they might still hit you but you can force them to roll something low enough to still block with shield.
But yeah, if it was Portent alone, it wouldn't be worthwhile, but that's a bit of a moot point because there's no way to get just portent, and ritual casting, shield, and absorb elements, not to mention general use cantrips like minor image or mold earth, altogether are REAL useful. Ultimately it seems worthwhile to me.
I'm personally planning a warlock with a 2 level diviner dip and am very much looking forward to the character.
That said, I understand the sacrifices I am making. I've multi-classed fairly often and I've learned that you have to have clear goals for what you're getting and you have to understand that what you're getting is not free. You delay class features from your primary class. For me I don't much care about delaying warlock features to gain whatever flexibility I am looking for. For other classes, that doesn't quite hold up as well. I MC'd a sorcerer with a few levels of warlock, and felt it was a mistake. A grave mistake. I delayed my magic progression...to get some eldritch blast action. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but I was supporting my party and my choice hurt my ability to do that. If I was trying to be an EB spammer, the choice would have been good...but it's not what I was really looking for and it seemed like a better idea on paper than it did when I started paying the price for it.
A monk|diviner? I mean portent can be cool and all, but that's not a choice I'd make. Then again, I'd not make a conscious choice to play a monk either, but that's just me.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Portent tends to level out in usefulness in that, either being useful or not, you can roll well which you can use to sub your own rolls, you can roll badly which you can force on enemies, or you can roll meh, but when you do roll not great but not bad, you can still use those in cases where maybe might fail but don't want to fail super hard, or where you think they might still hit you but you can force them to roll something low enough to still block with shield.
Sure. But it's never going to be a guaranteed way of saving your bacon since you have to use it before the roll is made. Not sure what you mean by not failing "super hard". You either succeed or fail (with a few notable exception, like death saves).
But yeah, if it was Portent alone, it wouldn't be worthwhile, but that's a bit of a moot point because there's no way to get just portent, and ritual casting, shield, and absorb elements, not to mention general use cantrips like minor image or mold earth, altogether are REAL useful. Ultimately it seems worthwhile to me.
Then you should go for it. If you know you're going to go that far, I suggest waiting until level 15, though. Diamond Soul is really, really good (+5 to death saves? Yes please!).
Portent tends to level out in usefulness in that, either being useful or not, you can roll well which you can use to sub your own rolls, you can roll badly which you can force on enemies, or you can roll meh, but when you do roll not great but not bad, you can still use those in cases where maybe might fail but don't want to fail super hard, or where you think they might still hit you but you can force them to roll something low enough to still block with shield.
Sure. But it's never going to be a guaranteed way of saving your bacon since you have to use it before the roll is made. Not sure what you mean by not failing "super hard". You either succeed or fail (with a few notable exception, like death saves).
But yeah, if it was Portent alone, it wouldn't be worthwhile, but that's a bit of a moot point because there's no way to get just portent, and ritual casting, shield, and absorb elements, not to mention general use cantrips like minor image or mold earth, altogether are REAL useful. Ultimately it seems worthwhile to me.
Then you should go for it. If you know you're going to go that far, I suggest waiting until level 15, though. Diamond Soul is really, really good (+5 to death saves? Yes please!).
Yeah to be honest my mind changed a bit when you said you are STARTING at level 11. That makes a lot of stuff more viable as you likely wont have to wait as long to get to the higher level monk stuff which is pretty fun.
Quivering Palm with Portent would be a pretty big deal if you can twiddle away their Legendary Saves.
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You are starting at level 10? Or you mean go to level 10 then start Wizard?
starting level 11, 10 monk/1 wizard. That way I can put my next level into wizard and unlock it without missing the 10th level monk stuff
Ahh ok. Yeah that seems reasonable.
No, that is not what people have said. Can you sto with your ridiculous strawman arguments. You're whole arguument is objectively flawed and in now way corresponds to neither what people has said nor what Portent actually does. First of all, you literally can't do it "again and again and again". You can do it once, and then once more again for that day. And you entire strategy hinges on you actually making useful rolls and are able to use them at the exact right moment. Your whole argument falls to pieces if you don't happen to roll the numbers you need or if you (which is very likely) happen to have already used the wrong number. The simple reason that you actually do not "the ability to know you'll do well on something, or to know you can force an enemy (any enemy) to perform badly at something" (since you have to roll for your portent) is another flaw in your argument.
Fact is, the answer to the question "is a two level dip for the sole purpose of gaining Portent a good move for Monks?" is simply "no, it is not". Sure, if you can afford the Int tax to gain a bunch of other useful spells and cantrips (which you can only use a short few times each day) might sometimes be a good move but portent alone? No thanks.
Paladin 6/Monk 14 (I suggest Kensei so you can still wield a weapon) is a very deadly combo.
If you want to do, do it. It can be a fun build. But Portent isn't the fantastical super power that some people try to make it out to be. You have to roll for it each day which means that if you rolled good yesterday but didn't use them you can't save those roll for another day. If you happen to roll mediocre rolls you might not have a good use for them and then there still is the problem of knowing when to use them. :/
I suggest taking buff spells and other spells that don't rely on your spell casting ability to be reliable.
Portent tends to level out in usefulness in that, either being useful or not, you can roll well which you can use to sub your own rolls, you can roll badly which you can force on enemies, or you can roll meh, but when you do roll not great but not bad, you can still use those in cases where maybe might fail but don't want to fail super hard, or where you think they might still hit you but you can force them to roll something low enough to still block with shield.
But yeah, if it was Portent alone, it wouldn't be worthwhile, but that's a bit of a moot point because there's no way to get just portent, and ritual casting, shield, and absorb elements, not to mention general use cantrips like minor image or mold earth, altogether are REAL useful. Ultimately it seems worthwhile to me.
I'm personally planning a warlock with a 2 level diviner dip and am very much looking forward to the character.
That said, I understand the sacrifices I am making. I've multi-classed fairly often and I've learned that you have to have clear goals for what you're getting and you have to understand that what you're getting is not free. You delay class features from your primary class. For me I don't much care about delaying warlock features to gain whatever flexibility I am looking for. For other classes, that doesn't quite hold up as well. I MC'd a sorcerer with a few levels of warlock, and felt it was a mistake. A grave mistake. I delayed my magic progression...to get some eldritch blast action. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but I was supporting my party and my choice hurt my ability to do that. If I was trying to be an EB spammer, the choice would have been good...but it's not what I was really looking for and it seemed like a better idea on paper than it did when I started paying the price for it.
A monk|diviner? I mean portent can be cool and all, but that's not a choice I'd make. Then again, I'd not make a conscious choice to play a monk either, but that's just me.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Sure. But it's never going to be a guaranteed way of saving your bacon since you have to use it before the roll is made. Not sure what you mean by not failing "super hard". You either succeed or fail (with a few notable exception, like death saves).
Then you should go for it. If you know you're going to go that far, I suggest waiting until level 15, though. Diamond Soul is really, really good (+5 to death saves? Yes please!).
Yeah to be honest my mind changed a bit when you said you are STARTING at level 11. That makes a lot of stuff more viable as you likely wont have to wait as long to get to the higher level monk stuff which is pretty fun.
Quivering Palm with Portent would be a pretty big deal if you can twiddle away their Legendary Saves.