Variant Human Fathomless Warlock, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast at level 1, EB cantrip, HEX spell, then whatever you like.
Assume CHA 16.
1d10 + 2d6 + 1d8 + 3 = 20 DPR at range, multi target potential. But you do have a bit of a traffic jam when you need to move the hex to another creature - though overall way better than the puny one creature only hexblade feature.
You can of course still do 17 DPR without needing to go into the extra +3 to damage from the feat, and pick the race you like. Or perhaps go for the fiendish vigour option for essentially some preventative 5-8 heal at will.
Both Hex and Tentacle of the Deep are Bonus Actions. So it won't go online until turn 2 at the earliest.
Yeah you use Hex first, get 1d10+1d6+3, (avg 13) then next round its the full monty at 20. Its also providing control (tentacle slows target 10ft), and you can use it on more than one opponent across more than one encounter, all at first level.
I mean is there a more op first level build? 20dpr for two encounters within 1 hour, with a first round DPR of 13, 20 then onwards and some battlefield control...
Variant Human Fathomless Warlock, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast at level 1, EB cantrip, HEX spell, then whatever you like.
Assume CHA 16.
1d10 + 2d6 + 1d8 + 3 = 20 DPR at range, multi target potential. But you do have a bit of a traffic jam when you need to move the hex to another creature - though overall way better than the puny one creature only hexblade feature.
You can of course still do 17 DPR without needing to go into the extra +3 to damage from the feat, and pick the race you like. Or perhaps go for the fiendish vigour option for essentially some preventative 5-8 heal at will.
Both Hex and Tentacle of the Deep are Bonus Actions. So it won't go online until turn 2 at the earliest.
Yeah you use Hex first, get 1d10+1d6+3, (avg 13) then next round its the full monty at 20. Its also providing control (tentacle slows target 10ft), and you can use it on more than one opponent across more than one encounter, all at first level.
I mean is there a more op first level build? 20dpr for two encounters within 1 hour, with a first round DPR of 13, 20 then onwards and some battlefield control...
Variant Human Fathomless Warlock, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast at level 1, EB cantrip, HEX spell, then whatever you like.
Assume CHA 16.
1d10 + 2d6 + 1d8 + 3 = 20 DPR at range, multi target potential. But you do have a bit of a traffic jam when you need to move the hex to another creature - though overall way better than the puny one creature only hexblade feature.
You can of course still do 17 DPR without needing to go into the extra +3 to damage from the feat, and pick the race you like. Or perhaps go for the fiendish vigour option for essentially some preventative 5-8 heal at will.
Both Hex and Tentacle of the Deep are Bonus Actions. So it won't go online until turn 2 at the earliest.
Yeah you use Hex first, get 1d10+1d6+3, (avg 13) then next round its the full monty at 20. Its also providing control (tentacle slows target 10ft), and you can use it on more than one opponent across more than one encounter, all at first level.
I mean is there a more op first level build? 20dpr for two encounters within 1 hour, with a first round DPR of 13, 20 then onwards and some battlefield control...
If that is what you conisder OP, sure.
Heh. Well what your most OP criteria? I think DPR is a pretty solid one, and add nice to have like it not being purely nova, range, control, and not 0 chance to hit.
There was a build here with a cleric able to GWM that could do 23dpr, with 3 times a day doing a double attack. But against any AC this build beats it by a lot, and even the 3 rounds it does double attacks, its only beating it by a bit on AC below 16. And of course you need to be in melee. IMO its superior to that...
Variant Human Fathomless Warlock, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast at level 1, EB cantrip, HEX spell, then whatever you like.
Assume CHA 16.
1d10 + 2d6 + 1d8 + 3 = 20 DPR at range, multi target potential. But you do have a bit of a traffic jam when you need to move the hex to another creature - though overall way better than the puny one creature only hexblade feature.
You can of course still do 17 DPR without needing to go into the extra +3 to damage from the feat, and pick the race you like. Or perhaps go for the fiendish vigour option for essentially some preventative 5-8 heal at will.
Both Hex and Tentacle of the Deep are Bonus Actions. So it won't go online until turn 2 at the earliest.
Yeah you use Hex first, get 1d10+1d6+3, (avg 13) then next round its the full monty at 20. Its also providing control (tentacle slows target 10ft), and you can use it on more than one opponent across more than one encounter, all at first level.
I mean is there a more op first level build? 20dpr for two encounters within 1 hour, with a first round DPR of 13, 20 then onwards and some battlefield control...
If that is what you conisder OP, sure.
Heh. Well what your most OP criteria?
Peace domain clerics. ;) Jokes aside, it depends on if you focus on combat or other things and also what aspects of combat you focus on. Your definition works as good as any. :)
Variant Human Fathomless Warlock, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast at level 1, EB cantrip, HEX spell, then whatever you like.
Assume CHA 16.
1d10 + 2d6 + 1d8 + 3 = 20 DPR at range, multi target potential. But you do have a bit of a traffic jam when you need to move the hex to another creature - though overall way better than the puny one creature only hexblade feature.
You can of course still do 17 DPR without needing to go into the extra +3 to damage from the feat, and pick the race you like. Or perhaps go for the fiendish vigour option for essentially some preventative 5-8 heal at will.
Both Hex and Tentacle of the Deep are Bonus Actions. So it won't go online until turn 2 at the earliest.
Yeah you use Hex first, get 1d10+1d6+3, (avg 13) then next round its the full monty at 20. Its also providing control (tentacle slows target 10ft), and you can use it on more than one opponent across more than one encounter, all at first level.
I mean is there a more op first level build? 20dpr for two encounters within 1 hour, with a first round DPR of 13, 20 then onwards and some battlefield control...
If that is what you conisder OP, sure.
Heh. Well what your most OP criteria?
Peace domain clerics. ;) Jokes aside, it depends on if you focus on combat or other things and also what aspects of combat you focus on. Your definition works as good as any. :)
Well that's true, I just assumed they meant offensively. Most OP level 1 support might pop up some interesting bards and clerics, and things I'm sure might be from elsewhere.
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
Its typo Barb should be STR 17 i will correct it.
For L1 OP the goal of some spell is to give high damage potential for both melee and ranged against solo.
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
I mean, if the target does not survive, your job is done…
It is a lot of damage for a level 1 spell
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Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
I mean, if the target does not survive, your job is done…
It is a lot of damage for a level 1 spell
Yes, but if half of it is overkill, what difference does it make. There are a handful of creatures that you might run into that could merit the spell from threat perspective, but usually getting Bless up on three allies will be better value with just the increase hit bonus against multiple enemies.
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
I mean, if the target does not survive, your job is done…
It is a lot of damage for a level 1 spell
Yes, but if half of it is overkill, what difference does it make. There are a handful of creatures that you might run into that could merit the spell from threat perspective, but usually getting Bless up on three allies will be better value with just the increase hit bonus against multiple enemies.
To be honest, inflict wounds should go if anything. Both spells have a similar purpose,and inflict wounds barely does more damage, a trait more than made up for by the increased range and the advantage on the next attack roll. You are correct that one spell there isn’t right, but not which one it is.
All depends on the domain though, a thing that was left out. A front-line war/forge domain will be fine with inflict wounds, but a light domain without heavy armor will hate the melee range and prefer guiding bolt.
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Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
I mean, if the target does not survive, your job is done…
It is a lot of damage for a level 1 spell
Yes, but if half of it is overkill, what difference does it make. There are a handful of creatures that you might run into that could merit the spell from threat perspective, but usually getting Bless up on three allies will be better value with just the increase hit bonus against multiple enemies.
To be honest, inflict wounds should go if anything. Both spells have a similar purpose,and inflict wounds barely does more damage, a trait more than made up for by the increased range and the advantage on the next attack roll. You are correct that one spell there isn’t right, but not which one it is.
All depends on the domain though, a thing that was left out. A front-line war/forge domain will be fine with inflict wounds, but a light domain without heavy armor will hate the melee range and prefer guiding bolt.
I don't mind the inclusion of either and I do think that Guiding Bolt is typically better than Inflict Wounds. Typically, if Inflict wounds is chosen it's for a flavor reason which is probably the main reason that I focused on Guiding Bolt. Still, it can be difficult to justify either inclusion in the right circumstances, which may have been the reason I focused on the better spell. As a solo character, either spell is fine for damage and there is usually enough flexibility with domain spells to include one of the spells.
I do remember wanting to have some insight into the thought process behind the choice, which might have been the full reason behind the question and why the other spells were ignored. Wanting to have a high damage spell available isn't a bad option, it's just a good idea to know why it is included.
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
I mean, if the target does not survive, your job is done…
It is a lot of damage for a level 1 spell
Yes, but if half of it is overkill, what difference does it make. There are a handful of creatures that you might run into that could merit the spell from threat perspective, but usually getting Bless up on three allies will be better value with just the increase hit bonus against multiple enemies.
To be honest, inflict wounds should go if anything. Both spells have a similar purpose,and inflict wounds barely does more damage, a trait more than made up for by the increased range and the advantage on the next attack roll. You are correct that one spell there isn’t right, but not which one it is.
All depends on the domain though, a thing that was left out. A front-line war/forge domain will be fine with inflict wounds, but a light domain without heavy armor will hate the melee range and prefer guiding bolt.
I don't mind the inclusion of either and I do think that Guiding Bolt is typically better than Inflict Wounds. Typically, if Inflict wounds is chosen it's for a flavor reason which is probably the main reason that I focused on Guiding Bolt. Still, it can be difficult to justify either inclusion in the right circumstances, which may have been the reason I focused on the better spell. As a solo character, either spell is fine for damage and there is usually enough flexibility with domain spells to include one of the spells.
I do remember wanting to have some insight into the thought process behind the choice, which might have been the full reason behind the question and why the other spells were ignored. Wanting to have a high damage spell available isn't a bad option, it's just a good idea to know why it is included.
This thread is about strongest and doesn’t care much about flavor but yes, one or the other is better than both
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Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Yes, but if half of it is overkill, what difference does it make. There are a handful of creatures that you might run into that could merit the spell from threat perspective, but usually getting Bless up on three allies will be better value with just the increase hit bonus against multiple enemies.
Bless applied to three first level allies is typically worth 3-4 damage per round (it's a 1/8 chance of changing a miss to a hit, so divide raw damage per round by 8); guiding bolt is worth around 11 vs typical targets, so for most first level parties bless isn't great unless you can cast it before the start of combat. However, it gets a lot better if it's boosting higher level characters.
I’d like to point out that the war cleric I brought up earlier still has the possibility of using those spells too. Perhaps if great weapon master isn’t the right call at that moment, or if it’s a longer day and they’ve used their bonus action attacks.
All this might depend on the end goal here. One party might need a healer, while another needs a tank, and still another needs dpr. For healing, an aasimar life cleric with healing word is the top. A v. human fighter/barb/paladin with sentinel is the top tank. And a wizard is the best for burst damage, since most other novas haven’t come online yet,
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Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Maybe not the MOST overpowered, but here is a monk build I like:
Custom Lineage: +2 to Dexterity, Fey Touched (Wisdom) feat. Get Hex spell with the feat. First turn, bonus action hex, then quarterstaff. 1d8 + 1d6 + 5 damage (Avg. 12)
Second Turn, Quarterstaff, then bonus action punch. 1d8 + 1d4 + 2d6 + 3 + 5 (Avg. 20). After you set up Hex, you can do this every turn.
Also, provided you have at least a base 15 in Wisdom and a base 14 in Dexterity, you can use you Custom Lineage bonuses and have 16 AC from Unarmored Defense.
I’ve read that the monsters of the multiverse bugbear adds 2d6 per attack on creature that haven’t acted yet.
Bugbear (monsters of the multiverse) monk, deals 1d8+4d6+1d4+6 (27) on round 1. Your damage build’s not bad, but why choose damage when you can have one turn kill?
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Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Yeah you use Hex first, get 1d10+1d6+3, (avg 13) then next round its the full monty at 20. Its also providing control (tentacle slows target 10ft), and you can use it on more than one opponent across more than one encounter, all at first level.
I mean is there a more op first level build? 20dpr for two encounters within 1 hour, with a first round DPR of 13, 20 then onwards and some battlefield control...
If that is what you conisder OP, sure.
Heh. Well what your most OP criteria? I think DPR is a pretty solid one, and add nice to have like it not being purely nova, range, control, and not 0 chance to hit.
There was a build here with a cleric able to GWM that could do 23dpr, with 3 times a day doing a double attack. But against any AC this build beats it by a lot, and even the 3 rounds it does double attacks, its only beating it by a bit on AC below 16. And of course you need to be in melee. IMO its superior to that...
Peace domain clerics. ;) Jokes aside, it depends on if you focus on combat or other things and also what aspects of combat you focus on. Your definition works as good as any. :)
Well that's true, I just assumed they meant offensively. Most OP level 1 support might pop up some interesting bards and clerics, and things I'm sure might be from elsewhere.
Martial: Custom Lineage Barbarian (STR 17, Polearm Master, Glaive)
Caster: Custom Lineage Cleric (WIS 18, Fey Touched Sleep, Inflict Wound, Bless, Guiding Bolt, Healing Word etc)
How are you getting 18 Str for the barbarian? If using Point Buy/Standard Array, that's max of 15 plus the +2 for custom lineage. Unlike Fey touched on the Cleric, Polearm Master doesn't have an ability increase.
What is your rationale for including Guiding Bolt on the cleric? My experience is that it's usually a waste of a spell slot used at earlier levels (1 and 2) and there are better options later. Yes, it does pretty good damage early and gives advantage on the next attack against it. How often do you need that much damage early? How often does a target to an early Guiding Bolt survive for the advantage to matter? Bless or Bane have typically been more meaningful (depending on whether there are more characters using attacks or more forcing saves) and affect multiple creatures. Are you seeing lots of encounters where you need 4d6+ (14+ average damage) against one creature bad enough that you'd use a spell slot to get it? Or did you include it just because it was a damaging spell?
Its typo Barb should be STR 17 i will correct it.
For L1 OP the goal of some spell is to give high damage potential for both melee and ranged against solo.
I mean, if the target does not survive, your job is done…
It is a lot of damage for a level 1 spell
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
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Yes, but if half of it is overkill, what difference does it make. There are a handful of creatures that you might run into that could merit the spell from threat perspective, but usually getting Bless up on three allies will be better value with just the increase hit bonus against multiple enemies.
To be honest, inflict wounds should go if anything. Both spells have a similar purpose,and inflict wounds barely does more damage, a trait more than made up for by the increased range and the advantage on the next attack roll. You are correct that one spell there isn’t right, but not which one it is.
All depends on the domain though, a thing that was left out. A front-line war/forge domain will be fine with inflict wounds, but a light domain without heavy armor will hate the melee range and prefer guiding bolt.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
I don't mind the inclusion of either and I do think that Guiding Bolt is typically better than Inflict Wounds. Typically, if Inflict wounds is chosen it's for a flavor reason which is probably the main reason that I focused on Guiding Bolt. Still, it can be difficult to justify either inclusion in the right circumstances, which may have been the reason I focused on the better spell. As a solo character, either spell is fine for damage and there is usually enough flexibility with domain spells to include one of the spells.
I do remember wanting to have some insight into the thought process behind the choice, which might have been the full reason behind the question and why the other spells were ignored. Wanting to have a high damage spell available isn't a bad option, it's just a good idea to know why it is included.
This thread is about strongest and doesn’t care much about flavor but yes, one or the other is better than both
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
Bless applied to three first level allies is typically worth 3-4 damage per round (it's a 1/8 chance of changing a miss to a hit, so divide raw damage per round by 8); guiding bolt is worth around 11 vs typical targets, so for most first level parties bless isn't great unless you can cast it before the start of combat. However, it gets a lot better if it's boosting higher level characters.
I’d like to point out that the war cleric I brought up earlier still has the possibility of using those spells too. Perhaps if great weapon master isn’t the right call at that moment, or if it’s a longer day and they’ve used their bonus action attacks.
All this might depend on the end goal here. One party might need a healer, while another needs a tank, and still another needs dpr. For healing, an aasimar life cleric with healing word is the top. A v. human fighter/barb/paladin with sentinel is the top tank. And a wizard is the best for burst damage, since most other novas haven’t come online yet,
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
Maybe not the MOST overpowered, but here is a monk build I like:
Custom Lineage: +2 to Dexterity, Fey Touched (Wisdom) feat. Get Hex spell with the feat. First turn, bonus action hex, then quarterstaff. 1d8 + 1d6 + 5 damage (Avg. 12)
Second Turn, Quarterstaff, then bonus action punch. 1d8 + 1d4 + 2d6 + 3 + 5 (Avg. 20). After you set up Hex, you can do this every turn.
Also, provided you have at least a base 15 in Wisdom and a base 14 in Dexterity, you can use you Custom Lineage bonuses and have 16 AC from Unarmored Defense.
Also, at 2nd level, Flurry of Blows lets you deal an extra 2d4 + 2d6 + 3 + 3 as a bonus action, instead of just punching.
That’s what we’re doing?
I’ve read that the monsters of the multiverse bugbear adds 2d6 per attack on creature that haven’t acted yet.
Bugbear (monsters of the multiverse) monk, deals 1d8+4d6+1d4+6 (27) on round 1. Your damage build’s not bad, but why choose damage when you can have one turn kill?
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
How do you get a 1d8+1d6+5 in your first round of combat?