So, I'm currently a level 4 half-orc fighter and at level 3 chose Eldritch Knight as the archetype. We're playing Curse of Strahd and I'm starting to think that it would fit my character to want to multi-class as a warlock. Reason for this being that up to now he has been pretty cocky and headstrong in his abilities as a fighter (his backstory has him wanting to follow in the footsteps of a famous vampire hunter), however a couple of bad experiences in battle has made him realise there is more to this campaign than straightforward fighting, and he wants to start dabbling in hidden or supernatural knowledge. EK as the martial archetype has been his starting point, but now he wants to get more serious about it. It would also be entirely in character for him to underestimate how big a concept this is.
I feel like this would be a good multi-class option, however I've never played a Warlock before so am having trouble fitting the concept of a patron into the campaign, especially since I don't really want to shift him to an evil alignment (don't think the DM/rest of the party would like this). Any thoughts on what kind of patron to chose and how to fit the character and pact into the campaign? I like the idea of playing it as a sort of "selling your soul for arcane knowledge" type angle.
Also in case it makes a difference he got bitten by a werewolf during an earlier fight and is now cursed with Lycanthropy
Mechanically, EK and Warlock don't go together very well. Warlocks don't get a lot of melee range buffs, use Charisma instead of Intelligence, and don't get enough Pact Slots to really enhance your "get more serious about it" commitment to the supernatural. Warlocks don't need to be evil, but Werewolfs certainly do, so that ship feels like it's already sailed. EKs aren't flexible enough in spell selection to give you very many useful spells that don't rely on Intelligence, so leaving Intelligence low and pumping Strength and Charisma isn't a great choice either. EKs also don't really get very many class features that are in any way relevant to what a Warlock does (blast Eldritch Blast from a distance every round of combat, for the most part)... they don't use save-based cantrips, and are unlikely to want to be in melee for War Magic to get much use. Levels of Wizard would be mechanically superior, or even Artificer if your DM is okay with you re-skinning those spells and abilities more as occult secrets/runes rather than technological innovations.
I'd suggest you MC to a Wizard. Almost any subclass has some things that'll fit with a melee-oriented character that occasionally casts spells: War Magic (AC buffs, faster initiatives), Trasmutation (faster speed, elemental resistance, shapechanging), Enchantment (hypnotic powers, attack avoidance, and party buffing), Divination (luck, spell slot refreshing, superior vision), Abjuration (HP buff, party tanking, better anti-mage), Graviturgy (manipulate weights to better grapple or move, battlefield position control, party damage buffs), Chronomancy (luck, faster initiatives, disable opponents, spells-as-items).
The old standard of Fighter/Fiend Blade Pact Warlock is fun to play. You are already a fighter so tome/chain/talisman are all viable options for pact boons. It’s more combat oriented but can have lots of utility depending on your spell selection. You don’t have to be evil to make a deal with a devil either. A fiend or agent thereof can contact you any time. A succubus could be hiding among townsfolk, a devil could send an agent to arrange a deal what is mutually beneficial, be creative. The patron suppressing the Lycanthropy curse could be part of the deal if you don’t want to deal with being a werewolf.
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I will add... yes, Fighter and Warlock go very well together. It's just the EK subclass in particular which multiclasses very poorly with non-Intelligence or Strength-based classes.
It can be really tough to multi-class on the fly like this. It's tough to make a weak character in this edition, but multi-classing is really the way to do it. Typically, its best to plan on it from the beginning to so you can have ability scores in the right places (do you have the 13 cha you need?) for it to work. Your plan sounds great as character development, no doubt. But multi-classing without a plan for it may lead to some really-sub-par characters, who end up just kind of mediocre at a couple things and not really good at anything.
If you really do want to multi-class, I'd offer a suggestion. Assuming as an EK you have a good int score, it seems like the character has decided his current skill set isn't up to the task, so maybe he starts tinkering with his armor and gear, looking to improve it, and you take a couple levels of artificer (looking at you armorer).
Mechanically, EK and Warlock don't go together very well. Warlocks don't get a lot of melee range buffs, use Charisma instead of Intelligence, and don't get enough Pact Slots to really enhance your "get more serious about it" commitment to the supernatural. Warlocks don't need to be evil, but Werewolfs certainly do, so that ship feels like it's already sailed. EKs aren't flexible enough in spell selection to give you very many useful spells that don't rely on Intelligence, so leaving Intelligence low and pumping Strength and Charisma isn't a great choice either. EKs also don't really get very many class features that are in any way relevant to what a Warlock does (blast Eldritch Blast from a distance every round of combat, for the most part)... they don't use save-based cantrips, and are unlikely to want to be in melee for War Magic to get much use. Levels of Wizard would be mechanically superior, or even Artificer if your DM is okay with you re-skinning those spells and abilities more as occult secrets/runes rather than technological innovations.
I'd suggest you MC to a Wizard. Almost any subclass has some things that'll fit with a melee-oriented character that occasionally casts spells: War Magic (AC buffs, faster initiatives), Trasmutation (faster speed, elemental resistance, shapechanging), Enchantment (hypnotic powers, attack avoidance, and party buffing), Divination (luck, spell slot refreshing, superior vision), Abjuration (HP buff, party tanking, better anti-mage), Graviturgy (manipulate weights to better grapple or move, battlefield position control, party damage buffs), Chronomancy (luck, faster initiatives, disable opponents, spells-as-items).
Unfortunately I don't have high enough INT to MC as wizard or artificer (down at 12 as I was building up STR and CON for the fighter class) so I would need to wait until level 6 for another ability score increase to bump that high enough. It's essentially why I was looking at Warlock because my CHA is high enough at 13. I might look at it doing it further down the line, but I think I will end up concentrating on getting the best out of the EK features and leave the MC for a brand new character. Appreciate the advice anyway, thanks.
It can be really tough to multi-class on the fly like this. It's tough to make a weak character in this edition, but multi-classing is really the way to do it. Typically, its best to plan on it from the beginning to so you can have ability scores in the right places (do you have the 13 cha you need?) for it to work. Your plan sounds great as character development, no doubt. But multi-classing without a plan for it may lead to some really-sub-par characters, who end up just kind of mediocre at a couple things and not really good at anything.
If you really do want to multi-class, I'd offer a suggestion. Assuming as an EK you have a good int score, it seems like the character has decided his current skill set isn't up to the task, so maybe he starts tinkering with his armor and gear, looking to improve it, and you take a couple levels of artificer (looking at you armorer).
Thanks for the advice - I think I've got a bit carried away by "Oh look what I could do in theory" rather than planning on how to fit it into the campaign. I wanted to make some changes initially because this character's taken a while to grow on me - which sounds dumb because, well, I created him - but he keeps on making stupid mistakes, so I was so ready for him to do some maturing and start getting more serious about everything. My INT isn't quite good enough to go artificer (12), I do have 13 CHA but if I can't find a way to make it work then I may play up the character development side and leave the MC for another character.
Well, 13 wasn't a very high Charisma either, which would be tough to really use to to high effect on a Warlock either... but honestly, EK doesn't offer amazing features after EK 7, so multiclassing isn't a terrible idea. But now that I know a little more about your stat spread, here are some options other than the "no, don't!" I offered before:
Wizard MC is within your grasp if you take a feat like Telepathic, Telekinetic, Fey Touched, or Shadow Touched at 8. Those are fun feats that can help emphasize the sort of growing powers you're talking about in their own right, and their +1 intelligence will be enough to make you Wizard-eligible from level 9 onwards (or, + to Charisma, if you're going the Warlock route!)
I'm assuming that spells, not class features are the primary thing that has you interested. Look through Warlock and Wizard spell lists at the first and second level spells, with an eye for spells that don't need you to have a good Spell Save or Spell Attack Bonus, and will be useful in melee. Are those spells you don't have access to as an EK (who are mostly limited to Abjuration and Evocation-school Wizard spells), and are enough of them important to you, that you're willing to accept fewer HP and fewer feats/ASI to get them? Some of these really would be worth picking up on a melee EK, and really, it's shocking how many really potent buff or control spells don't care one lick what your spellcasting modifier is:
The evocation Wizard's level 6 Potent Cantrip can do a lot to make your poor Intelligence less of a liability. Your EK 7 War Magic wants you to be casting cantrips, even though your Intelligence isn't very high. 6 levels of Evocation Wizard means, cantrips like Acid Splash, Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Infestation, Lightning Lure, Mind Sliver, Poison Spray, Sword Burst, Thunderclap, and Toll the Deadwill be dealing guaranteed damage every round, which in certain fights can be more important than how much damage they'll be doing. Guaranteed damage on any target every round is deceptively good, and as an EK 8/Evoker 6, that will someday be within your grasp, along with some great self-buffs like Enlarge/Reduce, Haste, or Fly that an EK can't normally cast very easily. Considering that many of your EK spells will be Evocation, the level 2 feature is bound to come in handy as well, because Evocation AOEs that save for half damage are probably your main go-to EK spell choices instead of single-target spells that do nothing when the creature saves.
The abjuration Wizard is also very, very good at being a dummy with low Intelligence, because most Abjuration spells (like Shield, Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and Good, Alarm, etc.) don't care about your casting modifier and are spells you're likely to take as an EK. The features at 2 and 6 are very good for a melee character... and the level 10 ability even is written as if assuming you're dumb, letting you prop up a low Intelligence modifier on Counterspell with your proficiency bonus!
For Warlock... it's worth talking about pacts and invocations before patrons, because they really have more potential to impact your build than your patron does (especially at lower Warlock levels). Pact of the Blade can help you be a fake paladin if you pick up Eldritch Smite, Pact of the Chain can help you be beefier with Gift of the Ever-Living Ones, Tome can make you into a great ritual caster with Book of Ancient Secrets and also gives you access to the Guidance cantrip, and Talisman can be a nice buff to a lot of daily tasks (and Rebuke of the Talisman can have fun applications).
Other non-Pact restricted invocations... don't take any of the Eldritch Blast ones, you don't have the CHA to be a blaster. But Devil's Sight, Eldritch Mind, Eldritch Sight, Fiendish Vigor, Gift of the Depths, Mask of Many Faces, Misty Visions, and Undying Servitude all might be good invocations to pick.
The Undying patron would be a pretty good patron for you as a Warlock. It will give two useful spells that don't care about Charisma (False Life, but moreso Silence), give you some defense against Undead (not reliably, but sometimes), and at level 6 makes you very good at rejoining a fight after getting knocked out. The Genie is also quite good, giving you bonus damage every round based on your proficiency bonus, give you a traveling apartment, resistance to an element, and even flying! This would be my suggestion for the most "fun" pact for you, with Marid adding the best low-Cha bonus spells to the Warlock Spell list (Fog Cloud and Blur).
So... sorry, that's a lot of info. I think just sticking with EK is good, because all those bonus feats can be used to pick up Telepathic, Telekinetic, Fey Touched, and Shadow Touched to help your low Intelligence (which is already hurting you) while also making you feel more and more occult. But if you do really want to multiclass, I think that Genie Patron, Talisman or Tome would be a fun addition after level 8, or Abjuration or Evocation Wizard.
I wanted to make some changes initially because this character's taken a while to grow on me - which sounds dumb because, well, I created him - but he keeps on making stupid mistakes,
That doesn’t sound dumb at all. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve made a character that didn’t really come together they way I’d hoped. Sometimes things look better in theory than they actually are in practice. If you’re really bored with him, maybe ask your DM if you can change. Tell them you thought it was going to be more fun to play than it actually is, and see if they’ll let you change. If not a full change, maybe a new subclass.
Well, 13 wasn't a very high Charisma either, which would be tough to really use to to high effect on a Warlock either... but honestly, EK doesn't offer amazing features after EK 7, so multiclassing isn't a terrible idea. But now that I know a little more about your stat spread, here are some options other than the "no, don't!" I offered before:
Wizard MC is within your grasp if you take a feat like Telepathic, Telekinetic, Fey Touched, or Shadow Touched at 8. Those are fun feats that can help emphasize the sort of growing powers you're talking about in their own right, and their +1 intelligence will be enough to make you Wizard-eligible from level 9 onwards (or, + to Charisma, if you're going the Warlock route!)
I'm assuming that spells, not class features are the primary thing that has you interested. Look through Warlock and Wizard spell lists at the first and second level spells, with an eye for spells that don't need you to have a good Spell Save or Spell Attack Bonus, and will be useful in melee. Are those spells you don't have access to as an EK (who are mostly limited to Abjuration and Evocation-school Wizard spells), and are enough of them important to you, that you're willing to accept fewer HP and fewer feats/ASI to get them? Some of these really would be worth picking up on a melee EK, and really, it's shocking how many really potent buff or control spells don't care one lick what your spellcasting modifier is:
The evocation Wizard's level 6 Potent Cantrip can do a lot to make your poor Intelligence less of a liability. Your EK 7 War Magic wants you to be casting cantrips, even though your Intelligence isn't very high. 6 levels of Evocation Wizard means, cantrips like Acid Splash, Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Infestation, Lightning Lure, Mind Sliver, Poison Spray, Sword Burst, Thunderclap, and Toll the Deadwill be dealing guaranteed damage every round, which in certain fights can be more important than how much damage they'll be doing. Guaranteed damage on any target every round is deceptively good, and as an EK 8/Evoker 6, that will someday be within your grasp, along with some great self-buffs like Enlarge/Reduce, Haste, or Fly that an EK can't normally cast very easily. Considering that many of your EK spells will be Evocation, the level 2 feature is bound to come in handy as well, because Evocation AOEs that save for half damage are probably your main go-to EK spell choices instead of single-target spells that do nothing when the creature saves.
The abjuration Wizard is also very, very good at being a dummy with low Intelligence, because most Abjuration spells (like Shield, Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and Good, Alarm, etc.) don't care about your casting modifier and are spells you're likely to take as an EK. The features at 2 and 6 are very good for a melee character... and the level 10 ability even is written as if assuming you're dumb, letting you prop up a low Intelligence modifier on Counterspell with your proficiency bonus!
For Warlock... it's worth talking about pacts and invocations before patrons, because they really have more potential to impact your build than your patron does (especially at lower Warlock levels). Pact of the Blade can help you be a fake paladin if you pick up Eldritch Smite, Pact of the Chain can help you be beefier with Gift of the Ever-Living Ones, Tome can make you into a great ritual caster with Book of Ancient Secrets and also gives you access to the Guidance cantrip, and Talisman can be a nice buff to a lot of daily tasks (and Rebuke of the Talisman can have fun applications).
Other non-Pact restricted invocations... don't take any of the Eldritch Blast ones, you don't have the CHA to be a blaster. But Devil's Sight, Eldritch Mind, Eldritch Sight, Fiendish Vigor, Gift of the Depths, Mask of Many Faces, Misty Visions, and Undying Servitude all might be good invocations to pick.
The Undying patron would be a pretty good patron for you as a Warlock. It will give two useful spells that don't care about Charisma (False Life, but moreso Silence), give you some defense against Undead (not reliably, but sometimes), and at level 6 makes you very good at rejoining a fight after getting knocked out. The Genie is also quite good, giving you bonus damage every round based on your proficiency bonus, give you a traveling apartment, resistance to an element, and even flying! This would be my suggestion for the most "fun" pact for you, with Marid adding the best low-Cha bonus spells to the Warlock Spell list (Fog Cloud and Blur).
So... sorry, that's a lot of info. I think just sticking with EK is good, because all those bonus feats can be used to pick up Telepathic, Telekinetic, Fey Touched, and Shadow Touched to help your low Intelligence (which is already hurting you) while also making you feel more and more occult. But if you do really want to multiclass, I think that Genie Patron, Talisman or Tome would be a fun addition after level 8, or Abjuration or Evocation Wizard.
This is some really thorough advice. Appreciate you taking the time to do this. You're right it's the spell potential of the Warlock that appeals most as the EK being confined to Abjuration/Evocation is quite restrictive. Going to take some time to go through these options and look properly into the options for a patron.
Wizard is really good with EK even with low intelligence, when you hit level 3 in wiz, you get blur, misty step, and mirror image. Great defensive buffs that play into an EK’s strengths. Even level one gives a familiar, which can be used to gain advantage.
You also get more slots to feed your shield spell with.
One problem you will face with casting of any sort is the juggling issue. If you are sword and board or dual wielding, you will almost have to switch to a two handed weapon so you can use somatic components without having to drop something. The best way around this is warcaster + ruby of the war mage.
If you go 2 levels of Hexblade you get a couple extra spell slots that come back on a short rest, Hexblade Curse, and some useful Warlock spells you otherwise would not have access to.
You definitely gain something from it, but IMO it's not quite worth falling 2 levels behind.
On the other hand, the Undead Patron is worth looking into... and would potentially really fit in to the story.
And as people said - you don't have to be evil. You could even have an antagonistic relationship with your Patron.
Sounds like Strahd is trying to tempt you... "Now that my minion (the werewolf) has tainted your blood, we can speak a bit more directly... I'll grant you power and stop the blood curse, and all I ask is..."
"Curse you Strahd! I'll take your power, but make you pay for it!"
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So, I'm currently a level 4 half-orc fighter and at level 3 chose Eldritch Knight as the archetype. We're playing Curse of Strahd and I'm starting to think that it would fit my character to want to multi-class as a warlock. Reason for this being that up to now he has been pretty cocky and headstrong in his abilities as a fighter (his backstory has him wanting to follow in the footsteps of a famous vampire hunter), however a couple of bad experiences in battle has made him realise there is more to this campaign than straightforward fighting, and he wants to start dabbling in hidden or supernatural knowledge. EK as the martial archetype has been his starting point, but now he wants to get more serious about it. It would also be entirely in character for him to underestimate how big a concept this is.
I feel like this would be a good multi-class option, however I've never played a Warlock before so am having trouble fitting the concept of a patron into the campaign, especially since I don't really want to shift him to an evil alignment (don't think the DM/rest of the party would like this). Any thoughts on what kind of patron to chose and how to fit the character and pact into the campaign? I like the idea of playing it as a sort of "selling your soul for arcane knowledge" type angle.
Also in case it makes a difference he got bitten by a werewolf during an earlier fight and is now cursed with Lycanthropy
Mechanically, EK and Warlock don't go together very well. Warlocks don't get a lot of melee range buffs, use Charisma instead of Intelligence, and don't get enough Pact Slots to really enhance your "get more serious about it" commitment to the supernatural. Warlocks don't need to be evil, but Werewolfs certainly do, so that ship feels like it's already sailed. EKs aren't flexible enough in spell selection to give you very many useful spells that don't rely on Intelligence, so leaving Intelligence low and pumping Strength and Charisma isn't a great choice either. EKs also don't really get very many class features that are in any way relevant to what a Warlock does (blast Eldritch Blast from a distance every round of combat, for the most part)... they don't use save-based cantrips, and are unlikely to want to be in melee for War Magic to get much use. Levels of Wizard would be mechanically superior, or even Artificer if your DM is okay with you re-skinning those spells and abilities more as occult secrets/runes rather than technological innovations.
I'd suggest you MC to a Wizard. Almost any subclass has some things that'll fit with a melee-oriented character that occasionally casts spells: War Magic (AC buffs, faster initiatives), Trasmutation (faster speed, elemental resistance, shapechanging), Enchantment (hypnotic powers, attack avoidance, and party buffing), Divination (luck, spell slot refreshing, superior vision), Abjuration (HP buff, party tanking, better anti-mage), Graviturgy (manipulate weights to better grapple or move, battlefield position control, party damage buffs), Chronomancy (luck, faster initiatives, disable opponents, spells-as-items).
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The old standard of Fighter/Fiend Blade Pact Warlock is fun to play. You are already a fighter so tome/chain/talisman are all viable options for pact boons. It’s more combat oriented but can have lots of utility depending on your spell selection. You don’t have to be evil to make a deal with a devil either. A fiend or agent thereof can contact you any time. A succubus could be hiding among townsfolk, a devil could send an agent to arrange a deal what is mutually beneficial, be creative. The patron suppressing the Lycanthropy curse could be part of the deal if you don’t want to deal with being a werewolf.
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I will add... yes, Fighter and Warlock go very well together. It's just the EK subclass in particular which multiclasses very poorly with non-Intelligence or Strength-based classes.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It can be really tough to multi-class on the fly like this. It's tough to make a weak character in this edition, but multi-classing is really the way to do it. Typically, its best to plan on it from the beginning to so you can have ability scores in the right places (do you have the 13 cha you need?) for it to work. Your plan sounds great as character development, no doubt. But multi-classing without a plan for it may lead to some really-sub-par characters, who end up just kind of mediocre at a couple things and not really good at anything.
If you really do want to multi-class, I'd offer a suggestion. Assuming as an EK you have a good int score, it seems like the character has decided his current skill set isn't up to the task, so maybe he starts tinkering with his armor and gear, looking to improve it, and you take a couple levels of artificer (looking at you armorer).
Unfortunately I don't have high enough INT to MC as wizard or artificer (down at 12 as I was building up STR and CON for the fighter class) so I would need to wait until level 6 for another ability score increase to bump that high enough. It's essentially why I was looking at Warlock because my CHA is high enough at 13. I might look at it doing it further down the line, but I think I will end up concentrating on getting the best out of the EK features and leave the MC for a brand new character. Appreciate the advice anyway, thanks.
Thanks for the advice - I think I've got a bit carried away by "Oh look what I could do in theory" rather than planning on how to fit it into the campaign. I wanted to make some changes initially because this character's taken a while to grow on me - which sounds dumb because, well, I created him - but he keeps on making stupid mistakes, so I was so ready for him to do some maturing and start getting more serious about everything. My INT isn't quite good enough to go artificer (12), I do have 13 CHA but if I can't find a way to make it work then I may play up the character development side and leave the MC for another character.
Well, 13 wasn't a very high Charisma either, which would be tough to really use to to high effect on a Warlock either... but honestly, EK doesn't offer amazing features after EK 7, so multiclassing isn't a terrible idea. But now that I know a little more about your stat spread, here are some options other than the "no, don't!" I offered before:
So... sorry, that's a lot of info. I think just sticking with EK is good, because all those bonus feats can be used to pick up Telepathic, Telekinetic, Fey Touched, and Shadow Touched to help your low Intelligence (which is already hurting you) while also making you feel more and more occult. But if you do really want to multiclass, I think that Genie Patron, Talisman or Tome would be a fun addition after level 8, or Abjuration or Evocation Wizard.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That doesn’t sound dumb at all. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve made a character that didn’t really come together they way I’d hoped. Sometimes things look better in theory than they actually are in practice. If you’re really bored with him, maybe ask your DM if you can change. Tell them you thought it was going to be more fun to play than it actually is, and see if they’ll let you change. If not a full change, maybe a new subclass.
This is some really thorough advice. Appreciate you taking the time to do this. You're right it's the spell potential of the Warlock that appeals most as the EK being confined to Abjuration/Evocation is quite restrictive. Going to take some time to go through these options and look properly into the options for a patron.
Wizard is really good with EK even with low intelligence, when you hit level 3 in wiz, you get blur, misty step, and mirror image. Great defensive buffs that play into an EK’s strengths. Even level one gives a familiar, which can be used to gain advantage.
You also get more slots to feed your shield spell with.
One problem you will face with casting of any sort is the juggling issue. If you are sword and board or dual wielding, you will almost have to switch to a two handed weapon so you can use somatic components without having to drop something. The best way around this is warcaster + ruby of the war mage.
If you go 2 levels of Hexblade you get a couple extra spell slots that come back on a short rest, Hexblade Curse, and some useful Warlock spells you otherwise would not have access to.
You definitely gain something from it, but IMO it's not quite worth falling 2 levels behind.
On the other hand, the Undead Patron is worth looking into... and would potentially really fit in to the story.
And as people said - you don't have to be evil. You could even have an antagonistic relationship with your Patron.
Sounds like Strahd is trying to tempt you... "Now that my minion (the werewolf) has tainted your blood, we can speak a bit more directly... I'll grant you power and stop the blood curse, and all I ask is..."
"Curse you Strahd! I'll take your power, but make you pay for it!"