Even if a Dragon book does come out next year instead of this year, it should at least get announced sometime before October 2021, else we can assume the Draconic Subclasses become dead UA.
I wonder if dnd beyond will implement this one. The cfv one don't get dinner until it was released and I doubt there's a way to make flexible subclass feature options
I like them so far. If nothing else I appreciate that WotC is experimenting with a large mechanical change in the UA rather than just introducing new subclasses that are slightly OP, as is the usual pattern.
I havent finished reading them all yet, but the only one that irks me a little is the Mages of Quandrix. I am a STEM graduate student, so I find this one interesting, but for me there is a line for D&D where I feel like the use of scientific jargon in a magic-based fantasy setting can go too far. I am not sure EXACTLY where that line is (I quite like the quasi-scientific magic of Artificers for example), but when you start talking about Quantum Tunneling in 5e, thats where I start to think it could be going too far.
I don't know. I am on the fence with it. I guess I just dont have a good grasp on how well developed scientific understanding is within the Forgotten Realms (or Strixhaven in this case).
This one bugged me a bit too, but for different reasons. The abilities didn't really seem related to the "flavor." E.g., "You're really good at math. So good, your enemies have disadvantage on strength saving throws."
So unlike variant features this could conceivably be implemented in their current toolkit. It'd be a manual nightmare (and a few hours of work) but it is possible.
I like some of these subclasses, but there are so many completely overpowered abilities. For instance, lorehold gets a spirit mentor at level one, and its range of abilities makes it really really strong, especially as you can make it attack or “heal” (with temp points, but still) on a bonus action. Silverquill’s lvl 10 ability to turn a fireball into “everything I can see is now charmed by me, no save” is a bit ridiculous. The infusion doesn’t end either, which means that the effects stay for as long as the spell does. In other words, a bard with heat metal can target a creature wearing armor and just....kill them. They’re automatically charmed, which means they can’t attack the charmer, so they just sit there while you burn them to death, retriggering the infusion on every turn, since it doesn’t end until the spell does. I do think Prismari and Witherbloom are fairly balanced, and I think they make for interesting subclasses, but Quandrix just feels very strange flavorwise. The first level ability to tack a better guidance onto every slot spell is pretty broken too, tbh, not to mention you can also bane with it if you want to. I also do think artificers should definitely have been in here somewhere, probably in Prismari or Quandrix, and that Silverquill, which is heavily warlock-flavored, is just terrible for warlocks, which is disappointing. Plus, Witherbloom definitely should have had clerics, it fits so well and is essentially what the death cleric should have been.
I like some of these subclasses, but there are so many completely overpowered abilities. For instance, lorehold gets a spirit mentor at level one, and its range of abilities makes it really really strong, especially as you can make it attack or “heal” (with temp points, but still) on a bonus action. Silverquill’s lvl 10 ability to turn a fireball into “everything I can see is now charmed by me, no save” is a bit ridiculous. The infusion doesn’t end either, which means that the effects stay for as long as the spell does. In other words, a bard with heat metal can target a creature wearing armor and just....kill them. They’re automatically charmed, which means they can’t attack the charmer, so they just sit there while you burn them to death, retriggering the infusion on every turn, since it doesn’t end until the spell does. I do think Prismari and Witherbloom are fairly balanced, and I think they make for interesting subclasses, but Quandrix just feels very strange flavorwise. The first level ability to tack a better guidance onto every slot spell is pretty broken too, tbh, not to mention you can also bane with it if you want to. I also do think artificers should definitely have been in here somewhere, probably in Prismari or Quandrix, and that Silverquill, which is heavily warlock-flavored, is just terrible for warlocks, which is disappointing. Plus, Witherbloom definitely should have had clerics, it fits so well and is essentially what the death cleric should have been.
I mean, they always overpower the UA so they can rein it in during publishing, since it's easier to nerf than to buff.
Do we think these Warlocks are intended to automatically get their subclass spells, or is that just poor wording on the UA? And/or is this just showing the inherent struggles that comes with class-agnostic subclasses this fat into the edition?
On the one hand I'm pretty disappointed about Artificers not being included... on the other hand Artificers strike me as the type that develop some world changing design and then drop out of college becoming wildly successful in the process.
Still, I'm hopeful they won't give up on cross class subclass options and will expand them to half, third, and non-spellcaster classes in the future whether or not they add them to the Strixhaven book.
On a third (mage?) hand I'm a little salty about how much better Witherbloom Brew is compared to Experimental Elixir:
Prof bonus amount. Can freely administer it to other creatures (no caveat about them being incapacitated). Quickening is a convenient hybrid between calm emotions and lesser restoration (and out of the blue cures STUNNED of all things). An option that involves poisons instead of only potion-like mechanics. The effects that have durations last a full hour (you know like most actual potions in 5e) when the only option in Experimental Elixir that did that was equivalent to longstrider.
I don't like this UA at all. I'm on-board with prestige classes, but adding subclasses that multiple classes can take feels like a big step into the wrong direction. My reasoning for this is that, at least from this release, is that these subclasses feel like watered down versions of what they could be. A Mage College being a patron for a warlock just feels off, for instance.
Obviously I can just not buy this sourcebook, but I really hope that this doesn't mean that Wizards intends to replace strong thematic subclasses in other sourcebook in the future with these multiclass options just for the sake of giving more options.
This is the second UA now that has left out clerics for no justifiable reason. I'm also surprised that bards weren't on Prismari. As for the actual content of the subclasses, I couldn't find it in myself to care about any of them. And I hope the flavor text makes sense for the actual setting, because some of it just seems like a hot mess mishmash.
I like the idea of subclasses that multiple classes can take. I think of how much I love the concept of the Beastmaster ranger, but wish that Druids could get a similar subclass. It would be cool if there were some options in the game that could make something like that possible — one generic subclass that both could use. I’m glad they’re experimenting with rules like these. My only issue is that a design like this is a bit too simplistic. You’d have to weigh the pros / cons of losing out on features that your base class would get from any other subclass against going the generic route.
I’m not really sure how I feel about it as presented in this UA though. Some classes will be getting less features than others within the same Subclass (Bard), and some classes get options through these schools that make them blatantly overpowered even compared to subclasses from their base class (Warlock).
Lore College is extremely strong — maybe even a little broken — and I think that Silverquill is as well. Quandrix seems good. Witherbloom seems good. Prismari looks pathetically underpowered.
Overall, I’d like to see how this would be implemented outside of the MtG specific setting, with a little more fine-tuning. Could be very interesting going forward.
So I'm gonna talk mechanics, there's already plenty of flavor in this thread.
I read these subclasses at 1:30 PM EST, and banned them from my table at 2:13 PM EST.
Lorehold:
Level 1: You get a companion which has perception expertise, and at level 1 has a passive perception of 16.
Healer archetype? Literal unlimited healing. No restrictions. Sage gives a +2 to all Wisdom and and Int checks to all things within 15 feet, no restrictions. Warrior is arguably the weakest with it's D4 reaction bonus to Dex/Str saves.
Level 6: 50% of the tough feat, and any spell based healing does an extra 1d8, regardless of source for the Healer. Sage gets permanent advantage on Arcana, History, Nature, and Religion checks. Also extra 1d8 force for all spells. Warriors get to make a weapon attack as PART of the action, not Bonus action, and gets extra Radiant damage on that extra hit.
Level 10: Vulnerability as a reaction on a failed Wisom save. Can be done 4 times per day at this level.
Level 14: A once per day either d6 to all saves that would inflict damage, resistance to all slashing, bludgeoning and piercing(doesn't state by weapon or magic so includes all, including magical sources), or an extra 15 feet of movement and doesn't trigger opportunity attacks. Oh and you can change it each turn, for a minute. Can be recharged by a 4th level slot.
My assessment: The flexibility of being able to swap between these is busted. Unlimited healing is beyond broken. Permanent advantage on all knowledge based checks except Medicine. Being able to grant vulnerability? This is unbelievably strong. Combined with either Bard, Warlock OR Wizard?
Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Mitigation is just as powerful as actual healing, and when you can set the party up with 10 temp HP at level 1? It's busted. It's 100 percent different in the fact that Dark Ones Blessing has clauses. This is just hey, you get it. Here you go.
If we forget the Warlock, Cleric, power, half-and-martial classes, slightly odd features, and that, we're left with:
MtG setting books getting ALL THE FUN STUFF. C'mon! Where were Tasha's big bonkers spell backgrounds, or Tasha's new Mythic Actions and Piety system? Where were Tasha's mix-and-match subclasses?
Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Mitigation is just as powerful as actual healing, and when you can set the party up with 10 temp HP at level 1? It's busted. It's 100 percent different in the fact that Dark Ones Blessing has clauses. This is just hey, you get it. Here you go.
I mean the artillerist artificer also has a turret that churns out free temp hp, unlimited, AND to multiple targets. I never saw anyone ban that for being broken.
Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Mitigation is just as powerful as actual healing, and when you can set the party up with 10 temp HP at level 1? It's busted. It's 100 percent different in the fact that Dark Ones Blessing has clauses. This is just hey, you get it. Here you go.
I mean the artillerist artificer also has a turret that churns out free temp hp, unlimited, AND to multiple targets. I never saw anyone ban that for being broken.
Actually that is not free as the turret boofs away in an hour and you have to spend a spell slot to get it back.
There is actually no other class/subclass that gifts THP for free completely....the last one that tried was Armorer Artificer and that got nerfed hard. (PB number of uses per LONG rest...oof)
The only other thing similar is the False Life invocation for warlock which basically gives you 8 THP all the time but you have to reup every hour (its not really a big deal as its free).
This still costs something though as you are giving up another invocation to get it so you have opportunity cost.
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Even if a Dragon book does come out next year instead of this year, it should at least get announced sometime before October 2021, else we can assume the Draconic Subclasses become dead UA.
I wonder if dnd beyond will implement this one. The cfv one don't get dinner until it was released and I doubt there's a way to make flexible subclass feature options
This one bugged me a bit too, but for different reasons. The abilities didn't really seem related to the "flavor." E.g., "You're really good at math. So good, your enemies have disadvantage on strength saving throws."
So unlike variant features this could conceivably be implemented in their current toolkit. It'd be a manual nightmare (and a few hours of work) but it is possible.
I just don't know if this UA is even a good idea
I def think bard should be on there, but I also think the elemental theme fits druids well
I like some of these subclasses, but there are so many completely overpowered abilities. For instance, lorehold gets a spirit mentor at level one, and its range of abilities makes it really really strong, especially as you can make it attack or “heal” (with temp points, but still) on a bonus action. Silverquill’s lvl 10 ability to turn a fireball into “everything I can see is now charmed by me, no save” is a bit ridiculous. The infusion doesn’t end either, which means that the effects stay for as long as the spell does. In other words, a bard with heat metal can target a creature wearing armor and just....kill them. They’re automatically charmed, which means they can’t attack the charmer, so they just sit there while you burn them to death, retriggering the infusion on every turn, since it doesn’t end until the spell does. I do think Prismari and Witherbloom are fairly balanced, and I think they make for interesting subclasses, but Quandrix just feels very strange flavorwise. The first level ability to tack a better guidance onto every slot spell is pretty broken too, tbh, not to mention you can also bane with it if you want to. I also do think artificers should definitely have been in here somewhere, probably in Prismari or Quandrix, and that Silverquill, which is heavily warlock-flavored, is just terrible for warlocks, which is disappointing. Plus, Witherbloom definitely should have had clerics, it fits so well and is essentially what the death cleric should have been.
I mean, they always overpower the UA so they can rein it in during publishing, since it's easier to nerf than to buff.
Do we think these Warlocks are intended to automatically get their subclass spells, or is that just poor wording on the UA? And/or is this just showing the inherent struggles that comes with class-agnostic subclasses this fat into the edition?
On the one hand I'm pretty disappointed about Artificers not being included... on the other hand Artificers strike me as the type that develop some world changing design and then drop out of college becoming wildly successful in the process.
Still, I'm hopeful they won't give up on cross class subclass options and will expand them to half, third, and non-spellcaster classes in the future whether or not they add them to the Strixhaven book.
On a third (mage?) hand I'm a little salty about how much better Witherbloom Brew is compared to Experimental Elixir:
Prof bonus amount.
Can freely administer it to other creatures (no caveat about them being incapacitated).
Quickening is a convenient hybrid between calm emotions and lesser restoration (and out of the blue cures STUNNED of all things).
An option that involves poisons instead of only potion-like mechanics.
The effects that have durations last a full hour (you know like most actual potions in 5e) when the only option in Experimental Elixir that did that was equivalent to longstrider.
in this case based on the wording it sounds like they just get them as known spells which is huge for warlocks
I don't like this UA at all. I'm on-board with prestige classes, but adding subclasses that multiple classes can take feels like a big step into the wrong direction. My reasoning for this is that, at least from this release, is that these subclasses feel like watered down versions of what they could be. A Mage College being a patron for a warlock just feels off, for instance.
Obviously I can just not buy this sourcebook, but I really hope that this doesn't mean that Wizards intends to replace strong thematic subclasses in other sourcebook in the future with these multiclass options just for the sake of giving more options.
I will agree that, reading these, it felt to me like there was a lot of untapped potential in what they could be versus what they are.
This is the second UA now that has left out clerics for no justifiable reason. I'm also surprised that bards weren't on Prismari. As for the actual content of the subclasses, I couldn't find it in myself to care about any of them. And I hope the flavor text makes sense for the actual setting, because some of it just seems like a hot mess mishmash.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
I like the idea of subclasses that multiple classes can take. I think of how much I love the concept of the Beastmaster ranger, but wish that Druids could get a similar subclass. It would be cool if there were some options in the game that could make something like that possible — one generic subclass that both could use. I’m glad they’re experimenting with rules like these. My only issue is that a design like this is a bit too simplistic. You’d have to weigh the pros / cons of losing out on features that your base class would get from any other subclass against going the generic route.
I’m not really sure how I feel about it as presented in this UA though. Some classes will be getting less features than others within the same Subclass (Bard), and some classes get options through these schools that make them blatantly overpowered even compared to subclasses from their base class (Warlock).
Lore College is extremely strong — maybe even a little broken — and I think that Silverquill is as well. Quandrix seems good. Witherbloom seems good. Prismari looks pathetically underpowered.
Overall, I’d like to see how this would be implemented outside of the MtG specific setting, with a little more fine-tuning. Could be very interesting going forward.
So I'm gonna talk mechanics, there's already plenty of flavor in this thread.
I read these subclasses at 1:30 PM EST, and banned them from my table at 2:13 PM EST.
Lorehold:
Level 1: You get a companion which has perception expertise, and at level 1 has a passive perception of 16.
Healer archetype? Literal unlimited healing. No restrictions. Sage gives a +2 to all Wisdom and and Int checks to all things within 15 feet, no restrictions. Warrior is arguably the weakest with it's D4 reaction bonus to Dex/Str saves.
Level 6: 50% of the tough feat, and any spell based healing does an extra 1d8, regardless of source for the Healer. Sage gets permanent advantage on Arcana, History, Nature, and Religion checks. Also extra 1d8 force for all spells. Warriors get to make a weapon attack as PART of the action, not Bonus action, and gets extra Radiant damage on that extra hit.
Level 10: Vulnerability as a reaction on a failed Wisom save. Can be done 4 times per day at this level.
Level 14: A once per day either d6 to all saves that would inflict damage, resistance to all slashing, bludgeoning and piercing(doesn't state by weapon or magic so includes all, including magical sources), or an extra 15 feet of movement and doesn't trigger opportunity attacks. Oh and you can change it each turn, for a minute. Can be recharged by a 4th level slot.
My assessment: The flexibility of being able to swap between these is busted. Unlimited healing is beyond broken. Permanent advantage on all knowledge based checks except Medicine. Being able to grant vulnerability? This is unbelievably strong. Combined with either Bard, Warlock OR Wizard?
No. Just no.
Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Mitigation is just as powerful as actual healing, and when you can set the party up with 10 temp HP at level 1? It's busted. It's 100 percent different in the fact that Dark Ones Blessing has clauses. This is just hey, you get it. Here you go.
If we forget the Warlock, Cleric, power, half-and-martial classes, slightly odd features, and that, we're left with:
MtG setting books getting ALL THE FUN STUFF. C'mon! Where were Tasha's big bonkers spell backgrounds, or Tasha's new Mythic Actions and Piety system? Where were Tasha's mix-and-match subclasses?
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I mean the artillerist artificer also has a turret that churns out free temp hp, unlimited, AND to multiple targets. I never saw anyone ban that for being broken.
Actually that is not free as the turret boofs away in an hour and you have to spend a spell slot to get it back.
There is actually no other class/subclass that gifts THP for free completely....the last one that tried was Armorer Artificer and that got nerfed hard. (PB number of uses per LONG rest...oof)
The only other thing similar is the False Life invocation for warlock which basically gives you 8 THP all the time but you have to reup every hour (its not really a big deal as its free).
This still costs something though as you are giving up another invocation to get it so you have opportunity cost.