I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
I mean, a Monk can do 180ft in a turn, and maintain that for a full two minutes. That's pretty superhuman.
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I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
Yeah, but also every fighter is not Usain Bolt, or even a third as fast as him when in plate armor.
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I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
Properly distributed, the armor isn't nearly as big an impediment as you might think. Performing handsprings is perfectly reasonable.
Think of it another way. You aren't wearing the weight of a 59-lb. explorer's pack on your shoulders. You're wearing it on your hips, supported by straps. Properly distributed, you barely feel the weight.
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
The fact that armor doesn't tend to reduce speed isn't realistic, but base movement speeds are so low (a normal person dashing is moving at 6.8 mph) that it doesn't really matter. Going to the 3e of "running is x4, or x3 in heavy armor" gets movement speed for normal adventurers somewhere closer to plausible.
The thing about armor is, as Jounichi1983 pointed out, it's really not all that heavy. A regular adventuring pack weighs just as much, the difference is that the weight is concentrated in one spot and is therefore ACTUALLY more encumbering than armor would be. I used to think that it slows you down significantly until I actually wore some plate.. It really doesn't weigh much. In a long march, all day, sure, exhausting, but in short bursts, it wouldn't slow you very much. IMO, even a fighter in heavy armor should STILL have more movement than a wizard. One is simply trained to move and the other isn't.
The thing about armor is, as Jounichi1983 pointed out, it's really not all that heavy. A regular adventuring pack weighs just as much, the difference is that the weight is concentrated in one spot and is therefore ACTUALLY more encumbering than armor would be. I used to think that it slows you down significantly until I actually wore some plate.. It really doesn't weigh much. In a long march, all day, sure, exhausting, but in short bursts, it wouldn't slow you very much. IMO, even a fighter in heavy armor should STILL have more movement than a wizard. One is simply trained to move and the other isn't.
Torso armor is less encumbering than the same weight in a backpack, but the same is not true for limb armor. However, having athletics affect your move would certainly change the valuing of strength and athletics skill.
The thing about armor is, as Jounichi1983 pointed out, it's really not all that heavy. A regular adventuring pack weighs just as much, the difference is that the weight is concentrated in one spot and is therefore ACTUALLY more encumbering than armor would be. I used to think that it slows you down significantly until I actually wore some plate.. It really doesn't weigh much. In a long march, all day, sure, exhausting, but in short bursts, it wouldn't slow you very much. IMO, even a fighter in heavy armor should STILL have more movement than a wizard. One is simply trained to move and the other isn't.
Torso armor is less encumbering than the same weight in a backpack, but the same is not true for limb armor. However, having athletics affect your move would certainly change the valuing of strength and athletics skill.
That's where proficiency comes into play, along with the Strength requirements for heavy armor. Setting that aside, most suits of field armor still only weighed about 45-55 lbs. A thousand years earlier, Roman legionaries would march for 20 miles a day carrying 80 lbs. of gear. That's as much as a firefighter today with full gear and an oxygen tank. Take away the tank, and it's about 45 lbs.
Which is still less than modern soldiers for the last century and a half. During the American Civil War, Union soldiers carried about 60 lbs., including their 10-lb. rifle. A lot of wounded soldiers drowned at Normandy (D-Day) because they were ordered to carry too much gear, about 75 lbs. worth, that wasn't properly distributed. And that's the big problem today. We don't distribute the weight. We concentrate it.
These knights would spread it out over their entire body, so it didn't weigh them down or restrict their movement. Knights in full dress could mount and dismount horses with ease, and would do so regularly during war. Marshal Boucicault, Jean II Le Maingre, once climbed the underside of a ladder in full armor. Dude just used his arms. Not that anyone brought it up, yet, but the idea someone in armor needed a crane to mount a horse was a joke. I mean a literal joke, not just fallacious, from some magazine in the 19th century.
The thing about armor is, as Jounichi1983 pointed out, it's really not all that heavy. A regular adventuring pack weighs just as much, the difference is that the weight is concentrated in one spot and is therefore ACTUALLY more encumbering than armor would be. I used to think that it slows you down significantly until I actually wore some plate.. It really doesn't weigh much. In a long march, all day, sure, exhausting, but in short bursts, it wouldn't slow you very much. IMO, even a fighter in heavy armor should STILL have more movement than a wizard. One is simply trained to move and the other isn't.
Torso armor is less encumbering than the same weight in a backpack, but the same is not true for limb armor. However, having athletics affect your move would certainly change the valuing of strength and athletics skill.
That's where proficiency comes into play, along with the Strength requirements for heavy armor.
Proficiency has nothing to do with weight on your feet being something like five times as fatiguing as the same quantity of weight on your torso. Any significant amount of leg protection is going to slow you down, though having leg protection doesn't precisely match up to armor categories in 5e.
However, my point about athletics is that it's reasonable for a high strength character to run faster even unarmored and unencumbered.
The thing about armor is, as Jounichi1983 pointed out, it's really not all that heavy. A regular adventuring pack weighs just as much, the difference is that the weight is concentrated in one spot and is therefore ACTUALLY more encumbering than armor would be. I used to think that it slows you down significantly until I actually wore some plate.. It really doesn't weigh much. In a long march, all day, sure, exhausting, but in short bursts, it wouldn't slow you very much. IMO, even a fighter in heavy armor should STILL have more movement than a wizard. One is simply trained to move and the other isn't.
Torso armor is less encumbering than the same weight in a backpack, but the same is not true for limb armor. However, having athletics affect your move would certainly change the valuing of strength and athletics skill.
That's where proficiency comes into play, along with the Strength requirements for heavy armor.
Proficiency has nothing to do with weight on your feet being something like five times as fatiguing as the same quantity of weight on your torso. Any significant amount of leg protection is going to slow you down, though having leg protection doesn't precisely match up to armor categories in 5e.
However, my point about athletics is that it's reasonable for a high strength character to run faster even unarmored and unencumbered.
Yes, and that's where variant rules like Encumbrance come in. But players generally don't like that because it approaches on simulationism, and that isn't fun for them.
If you want to enforce the 3.5 movement rules, go right ahead.
Yes, and that's where variant rules like Encumbrance come in. But players generally don't like that because it approaches on simulationism, and that isn't fun for them.
People don't like tracking encumbrance, but that's not what I'm talking about -- I was just talking about a flat bonus to movement for athletics.
I think I'll admit I was wrong on the speed one, in short bursts it's possible. Tho the equipment in a backpack definitely would make it harder than the armour. Tho I do think some of the things that martials do are more for fun engaging mechanics than realism, like when fighters get up to 9 attacks in 6 seconds, never wielded a weapon myself but that action surge with PAM and a halberd does sound insane.
Of course casters are way further off the scale on fun mechanics over realism. I don't think martials need to be entirely realistic if the alternative is something more interesting and engaging.
I think I'll admit I was wrong on the speed one, in short bursts it's possible. Tho the equipment in a backpack definitely would make it harder than the armour. Tho I do think some of the things that martials do are more for fun engaging mechanics than realism, like when fighters get up to 9 attacks in 6 seconds, never wielded a weapon myself but that action surge with PAM and a halberd does sound insane.
Of course casters are way further off the scale on fun mechanics over realism. I don't think martials need to be entirely realistic if the alternative is something more interesting and engaging.
Personally, I'd be fine with high level fighters being anime-scale, but there's a pretty substantial portion of the the community that's opposed.
I think I'll admit I was wrong on the speed one, in short bursts it's possible. Tho the equipment in a backpack definitely would make it harder than the armour. Tho I do think some of the things that martials do are more for fun engaging mechanics than realism, like when fighters get up to 9 attacks in 6 seconds, never wielded a weapon myself but that action surge with PAM and a halberd does sound insane.
Of course casters are way further off the scale on fun mechanics over realism. I don't think martials need to be entirely realistic if the alternative is something more interesting and engaging.
Given that it's 20th level fighter, an absolute apex of skill, 9 attacks in 6 seconds is plausible. In an actual hand-to-hand sparring, 6 seconds feel like eternity.
This conversation has veered wildly off track. First off, comparing the average fighter to Usain Bolt, even if you calculate for plate armor and stuff, is not a very good comparison. But on a more related note, martials like fighters and barbarians aren't that realistic, for example, they can literally be hit by arrows or slashed with swords dozens of times before going unconscious, (not even dying) but I guess a lot of stuff in D&D really isn't realistic, but yeah fighters and barbarians are still included in that, just to a slightly lesser extent.
Also, barbarians and fighters are way, way, more buff than anyone could possibly be in real life. Especially when compared to the time period D&D is mostly replicating. But again, yeah, D&D is not very realistic anyways, and martials aren't exceptions to that rule.
There are huge ranges of abilities you can add without spells. Allow them to leap hundreds of feat, move incredible distances on a bonus action, lift/break things with superhuman force, intimidate/persuade beyond what is possible by mortals, attacks that stun, paralyze, knock unconscious, charm people. A charm/sleep/paralyze effect can come from a maneuver just as easily as it can come from a spell.
What you listed is all supernatural abilities, essentially magic. And as you can see, fighters and rogues, for example, have to be realistic, at least with most subclasses.
No they don't they tank blows from 30 ton mythical beasts, they don't have to be the least bit realistic. If you insist on them being mundane play only levels 1-3 and let everyone else enjoy martials as the legendary heroes they should be, don't try and bring spell casters down to a mundane level elevate martials.
I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
Yeah, but also every fighter is not Usain Bolt, or even a third as fast as him when in plate armor.
They should as fast as Usain Bolt and more by level 5.
This conversation has veered wildly off track. First off, comparing the average fighter to Usain Bolt, even if you calculate for plate armor and stuff, is not a very good comparison. But on a more related note, martials like fighters and barbarians aren't that realistic, for example, they can literally be hit by arrows or slashed with swords dozens of times before going unconscious, (not even dying) but I guess a lot of stuff in D&D really isn't realistic, but yeah fighters and barbarians are still included in that, just to a slightly lesser extent.
Also, barbarians and fighters are way, way, more buff than anyone could possibly be in real life. Especially when compared to the time period D&D is mostly replicating. But again, yeah, D&D is not very realistic anyways, and martials aren't exceptions to that rule.
Hit points are not meat points.
"Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck."
"Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious."
I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
Yeah, but also every fighter is not Usain Bolt, or even a third as fast as him when in plate armor.
They should as fast as Usain Bolt and more by level 5.
Someone's agility should be reflected by their dex score, not their level. But anyways, speed in D&D is the same at lower levels as it is for higher ones. The only impacting factor that is likely to change is your constitution score, and then I guess it should be reflected off that instead of your level.
This conversation has veered wildly off track. First off, comparing the average fighter to Usain Bolt, even if you calculate for plate armor and stuff, is not a very good comparison. But on a more related note, martials like fighters and barbarians aren't that realistic, for example, they can literally be hit by arrows or slashed with swords dozens of times before going unconscious, (not even dying) but I guess a lot of stuff in D&D really isn't realistic, but yeah fighters and barbarians are still included in that, just to a slightly lesser extent.
Also, barbarians and fighters are way, way, more buff than anyone could possibly be in real life. Especially when compared to the time period D&D is mostly replicating. But again, yeah, D&D is not very realistic anyways, and martials aren't exceptions to that rule.
Hit points are not meat points.
"Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck."
"Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious."
Wow, you just taught me something new. But anyways, D&D is still not very realistic: the fact that you can engage in 8 random fight every day as a bunch of random adventures, and come out uninjured, is also not very realistic. And if you do come out injured, the fact that it doesn't slow you down is also unrealistic.
Oh, so is the fact that PC's fall unconscious while NPC's die. But anyways, D&D is very unrealistic, and again, even if hit points isn't one ways it is unrealistic, many other things are. And again, fighters and barbarians and other martials, especially the ones that channel godly powers, aren't realistic either.
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Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
I mean, a Monk can do 180ft in a turn, and maintain that for a full two minutes. That's pretty superhuman.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeah, but also every fighter is not Usain Bolt, or even a third as fast as him when in plate armor.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Properly distributed, the armor isn't nearly as big an impediment as you might think. Performing handsprings is perfectly reasonable.
Think of it another way. You aren't wearing the weight of a 59-lb. explorer's pack on your shoulders. You're wearing it on your hips, supported by straps. Properly distributed, you barely feel the weight.
The fact that armor doesn't tend to reduce speed isn't realistic, but base movement speeds are so low (a normal person dashing is moving at 6.8 mph) that it doesn't really matter. Going to the 3e of "running is x4, or x3 in heavy armor" gets movement speed for normal adventurers somewhere closer to plausible.
The thing about armor is, as Jounichi1983 pointed out, it's really not all that heavy. A regular adventuring pack weighs just as much, the difference is that the weight is concentrated in one spot and is therefore ACTUALLY more encumbering than armor would be. I used to think that it slows you down significantly until I actually wore some plate.. It really doesn't weigh much. In a long march, all day, sure, exhausting, but in short bursts, it wouldn't slow you very much. IMO, even a fighter in heavy armor should STILL have more movement than a wizard. One is simply trained to move and the other isn't.
Torso armor is less encumbering than the same weight in a backpack, but the same is not true for limb armor. However, having athletics affect your move would certainly change the valuing of strength and athletics skill.
That's where proficiency comes into play, along with the Strength requirements for heavy armor. Setting that aside, most suits of field armor still only weighed about 45-55 lbs. A thousand years earlier, Roman legionaries would march for 20 miles a day carrying 80 lbs. of gear. That's as much as a firefighter today with full gear and an oxygen tank. Take away the tank, and it's about 45 lbs.
Which is still less than modern soldiers for the last century and a half. During the American Civil War, Union soldiers carried about 60 lbs., including their 10-lb. rifle. A lot of wounded soldiers drowned at Normandy (D-Day) because they were ordered to carry too much gear, about 75 lbs. worth, that wasn't properly distributed. And that's the big problem today. We don't distribute the weight. We concentrate it.
These knights would spread it out over their entire body, so it didn't weigh them down or restrict their movement. Knights in full dress could mount and dismount horses with ease, and would do so regularly during war. Marshal Boucicault, Jean II Le Maingre, once climbed the underside of a ladder in full armor. Dude just used his arms. Not that anyone brought it up, yet, but the idea someone in armor needed a crane to mount a horse was a joke. I mean a literal joke, not just fallacious, from some magazine in the 19th century.
Proficiency has nothing to do with weight on your feet being something like five times as fatiguing as the same quantity of weight on your torso. Any significant amount of leg protection is going to slow you down, though having leg protection doesn't precisely match up to armor categories in 5e.
However, my point about athletics is that it's reasonable for a high strength character to run faster even unarmored and unencumbered.
Yes, and that's where variant rules like Encumbrance come in. But players generally don't like that because it approaches on simulationism, and that isn't fun for them.
If you want to enforce the 3.5 movement rules, go right ahead.
People don't like tracking encumbrance, but that's not what I'm talking about -- I was just talking about a flat bonus to movement for athletics.
I think I'll admit I was wrong on the speed one, in short bursts it's possible. Tho the equipment in a backpack definitely would make it harder than the armour. Tho I do think some of the things that martials do are more for fun engaging mechanics than realism, like when fighters get up to 9 attacks in 6 seconds, never wielded a weapon myself but that action surge with PAM and a halberd does sound insane.
Of course casters are way further off the scale on fun mechanics over realism. I don't think martials need to be entirely realistic if the alternative is something more interesting and engaging.
Personally, I'd be fine with high level fighters being anime-scale, but there's a pretty substantial portion of the the community that's opposed.
Given that it's 20th level fighter, an absolute apex of skill, 9 attacks in 6 seconds is plausible. In an actual hand-to-hand sparring, 6 seconds feel like eternity.
This conversation has veered wildly off track. First off, comparing the average fighter to Usain Bolt, even if you calculate for plate armor and stuff, is not a very good comparison. But on a more related note, martials like fighters and barbarians aren't that realistic, for example, they can literally be hit by arrows or slashed with swords dozens of times before going unconscious, (not even dying) but I guess a lot of stuff in D&D really isn't realistic, but yeah fighters and barbarians are still included in that, just to a slightly lesser extent.
Also, barbarians and fighters are way, way, more buff than anyone could possibly be in real life. Especially when compared to the time period D&D is mostly replicating. But again, yeah, D&D is not very realistic anyways, and martials aren't exceptions to that rule.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.No they don't they tank blows from 30 ton mythical beasts, they don't have to be the least bit realistic. If you insist on them being mundane play only levels 1-3 and let everyone else enjoy martials as the legendary heroes they should be, don't try and bring spell casters down to a mundane level elevate martials.
They should as fast as Usain Bolt and more by level 5.
Hit points are not meat points.
"Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck."
"Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious."
Someone's agility should be reflected by their dex score, not their level. But anyways, speed in D&D is the same at lower levels as it is for higher ones. The only impacting factor that is likely to change is your constitution score, and then I guess it should be reflected off that instead of your level.
Wow, you just taught me something new. But anyways, D&D is still not very realistic: the fact that you can engage in 8 random fight every day as a bunch of random adventures, and come out uninjured, is also not very realistic. And if you do come out injured, the fact that it doesn't slow you down is also unrealistic.
Oh, so is the fact that PC's fall unconscious while NPC's die. But anyways, D&D is very unrealistic, and again, even if hit points isn't one ways it is unrealistic, many other things are. And again, fighters and barbarians and other martials, especially the ones that channel godly powers, aren't realistic either.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.