Scouts and arcane tricksters roll on a critical hit table to apply effects (starts as a d4 table with minor effects but expands at certain rogue levels)
Swashbucklers inspire nearby allies.
Rogue crits should feel special but removing the double sneak attack damage can make room for something far more interesting.
I've played that nat-20 rolls are 2x damage crits for decades and I apply it the same for PCs and monsters and NPCs. I feel like this makes those nat-20 rolls have some meaning, and there is the notion that one really great roll can swing the fortunes of battle in a hurry. I prefer to keep this for all rolls -- attack or save or spells or whatever. And I agree that backstab or sneak attack crits should do 2x damage. (To be more clear, when I say 2x I really mean double all dice, add in plusses. I like the way that works.)
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Player * Game Master * Started with OD&D in 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson
I don’t think gaining advantage on a 20 hits the right note. They are always nice to roll, but it’s those clinch moments when you absolutely need to hit hard that make it dramatic and exciting. With the new ruling, you roll a 20 for the win. Awesome and dramatic… and you can use it on your next attack. Reasonable mechanically, but kind of limp thematically.
I’d rather make a crit work as it does now, but limit it only to weapon/unarmed as they are suggesting as I think it’s a good spell caster debuff. Maybe have it give someone else the inspiration on a 20, but never yourself.
I don’t think auto success on 20 for all checks will work well or make it into the final rules. I wouldn’t give inspiration for this either.
Rogue crits should feel special but removing the double sneak attack damage can make room for something far more interesting.
How? Rogues only have one attack (two if they are willing to sacrifice the use of their other abilities to make the off hand attack) so they don't crit as often like other martial classes. I don't see a reason to take away sneak attacks ability to crit as it does nothing but make the class less appealing. Many DMs nerf sneak attacks because they don't understand it and make it sound overwhelming when it is not.
Its not the worst idea that different rogues get different perks on their critical sneak attacks, i find that an interesting concept. Not sure how much it would pull away from backwards compatibility but its pretty nifty nonetheless.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Nah. Rogue crits one strike out of twenty, and the whole idea is to bury the enemy in d6s, slitting his throat instantly. Without it, that would feel underwhelming. Martial classes get extra attack and flat bonuses to damage. Rogue gets his d6s.
I do think it is a worse idea if they take away the ability to crit on sneak attacks. If they add it on top of it it would be nice.
that would be really excessive, for an already potent feature.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Nah. Rogue crits one strike out of twenty, and the whole idea is to bury the enemy in d6s, slitting his throat instantly. Without it, that would feel underwhelming. Martial classes get extra attack and flat bonuses to damage. Rogue gets his d6s.
Because of martial classes getting extra attack it also means they crit more often than rogues.
I do think it is a worse idea if they take away the ability to crit on sneak attacks. If they add it on top of it it would be nice.
that would be really excessive, for an already potent feature.
Really? How so? Rogues already don't crit as often as they only have the one attack to crit on so taking that away will make the class underwhelming. It is not like paladins and barbarians being able to crit fish with multiple attacks. If they take away the ability to crit on sneak attacks they would have to do something profound to make it appealing which some of the suggestions just don't do that. So far it seems like more people would sticks to 5e than go with One D&D. They did the right thing by cutting the bloat from 3.5 in making 5e but it seems like they are going further which isn't good. I hope this isn't just another 4e again.
Nah. Rogue crits one strike out of twenty, and the whole idea is to bury the enemy in d6s, slitting his throat instantly. Without it, that would feel underwhelming. Martial classes get extra attack and flat bonuses to damage. Rogue gets his d6s.
Rogues crit. 1/10 since the should have advantage on every strike.
It really depends on the power of the alternate feature, if the enemy drops a number of positions in the initiative order equal to the number of SA die you'd roll, it would feel pretty amazing.
This playtest document is exciting; it takes me back to the early days of the 5e playtest (when it was called D&D Next). I don't imagine this playtest will be quite as drastic Next's (which saw wildly different takes on classes over the course of a few months at times).
I think the purpose of the Character Origins document is both to show us what they'd like to do with races and backgrounds (and which feels like a natural evolution of where the game is now), but also to see how much change we're actually comfortable with. From the video they released, it seems that they view the change to Critical Hits, Inspiration, and the spell lists as the biggest "swings".
The spell lists was more of a tease than anything, since we don't know how it will work with the classes yet.
I tried out the change to inspiration last week and it seemed to immediately get around the problem of people forgetting it. Is getting it on a natural 20 too much? I think I'll need to see more testing to say for sure.
Critical hits were barely tested. It saved the party maybe 3 damage from a pirate at one point, and nobody crit with a spell.
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I want to see Assassins keep double damage,
Scouts and arcane tricksters roll on a critical hit table to apply effects (starts as a d4 table with minor effects but expands at certain rogue levels)
Swashbucklers inspire nearby allies.
Rogue crits should feel special but removing the double sneak attack damage can make room for something far more interesting.
I've played that nat-20 rolls are 2x damage crits for decades and I apply it the same for PCs and monsters and NPCs. I feel like this makes those nat-20 rolls have some meaning, and there is the notion that one really great roll can swing the fortunes of battle in a hurry. I prefer to keep this for all rolls -- attack or save or spells or whatever. And I agree that backstab or sneak attack crits should do 2x damage. (To be more clear, when I say 2x I really mean double all dice, add in plusses. I like the way that works.)
Player * Game Master * Started with OD&D in 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson
I don’t think gaining advantage on a 20 hits the right note. They are always nice to roll, but it’s those clinch moments when you absolutely need to hit hard that make it dramatic and exciting. With the new ruling, you roll a 20 for the win. Awesome and dramatic… and you can use it on your next attack. Reasonable mechanically, but kind of limp thematically.
I’d rather make a crit work as it does now, but limit it only to weapon/unarmed as they are suggesting as I think it’s a good spell caster debuff. Maybe have it give someone else the inspiration on a 20, but never yourself.
I don’t think auto success on 20 for all checks will work well or make it into the final rules. I wouldn’t give inspiration for this either.
How? Rogues only have one attack (two if they are willing to sacrifice the use of their other abilities to make the off hand attack) so they don't crit as often like other martial classes. I don't see a reason to take away sneak attacks ability to crit as it does nothing but make the class less appealing. Many DMs nerf sneak attacks because they don't understand it and make it sound overwhelming when it is not.
Its not the worst idea that different rogues get different perks on their critical sneak attacks, i find that an interesting concept. Not sure how much it would pull away from backwards compatibility but its pretty nifty nonetheless.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I do think it is a worse idea if they take away the ability to crit on sneak attacks. If they add it on top of it it would be nice.
Nah. Rogue crits one strike out of twenty, and the whole idea is to bury the enemy in d6s, slitting his throat instantly. Without it, that would feel underwhelming. Martial classes get extra attack and flat bonuses to damage. Rogue gets his d6s.
that would be really excessive, for an already potent feature.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Because of martial classes getting extra attack it also means they crit more often than rogues.
Really? How so? Rogues already don't crit as often as they only have the one attack to crit on so taking that away will make the class underwhelming. It is not like paladins and barbarians being able to crit fish with multiple attacks. If they take away the ability to crit on sneak attacks they would have to do something profound to make it appealing which some of the suggestions just don't do that. So far it seems like more people would sticks to 5e than go with One D&D. They did the right thing by cutting the bloat from 3.5 in making 5e but it seems like they are going further which isn't good. I hope this isn't just another 4e again.
Rogues crit. 1/10 since the should have advantage on every strike.
It really depends on the power of the alternate feature, if the enemy drops a number of positions in the initiative order equal to the number of SA die you'd roll, it would feel pretty amazing.
This playtest document is exciting; it takes me back to the early days of the 5e playtest (when it was called D&D Next). I don't imagine this playtest will be quite as drastic Next's (which saw wildly different takes on classes over the course of a few months at times).
I think the purpose of the Character Origins document is both to show us what they'd like to do with races and backgrounds (and which feels like a natural evolution of where the game is now), but also to see how much change we're actually comfortable with. From the video they released, it seems that they view the change to Critical Hits, Inspiration, and the spell lists as the biggest "swings".
The spell lists was more of a tease than anything, since we don't know how it will work with the classes yet.
I tried out the change to inspiration last week and it seemed to immediately get around the problem of people forgetting it. Is getting it on a natural 20 too much? I think I'll need to see more testing to say for sure.
Critical hits were barely tested. It saved the party maybe 3 damage from a pirate at one point, and nobody crit with a spell.