The Guidance changes are absolute dogshit. What's the point of it being a cantrip if it doesn't function like a cantrip. A cantrip is meant to be something you can use over and over without much limit to it. There's literally no point in taking it otherwise.
Well at any rate it’s still too limited in number of uses for a cantrip.
it should either have proficiency number of uses or it should be able to target the same creature until tb failure turns into a success.
maybe both.
Great idea, I like it. It's an adequate counterweight to its once-per-day limitation.
It's not once-per-day though. If you have 4 people in your party, you can cast it on each of them once. If you want to give it to an NPC, you can. Once you cast it on someone, they can't use it again until after they take a long rest.
It gives a clutch bonus when needed that doesn't count against the number of spells cast. Yes it's a nerf but I feel it needs to be nerfed. This way I don't need to repeatedly tell my players no. You do not have a free 6 seconds to cast this spell. Or no you can not cast a spell with vocal components without them knowing what you are doing. Just my thoughts I prefer this new version to the spell.
It gives a clutch bonus when needed that doesn't count against the number of spells cast. Yes it's a nerf but I feel it needs to be nerfed. This way I don't need to repeatedly tell my players no. You do not have a free 6 seconds to cast this spell. Or no you can not cast a spell with vocal components without them knowing what you are doing. Just my thoughts I prefer this new version to the spell.
No I get it. I'm more just saying if players are salty enough to not like this new version of it, it's basically a soft ban without the DMs having to really do anything. It might not be that extreme though.
I feel like this wouldn't be so bad if it said "you can not cast this on the same person until you finish a long rest" instead of "a person can not benefit from this effect for the next 24 hours". the problem this currently does is if there are multiple people with guidance the others are typically redundant. By allowing someone else to cast it on them it means that if more than one person has guidance then you can have one person benefit multiple times, but only the number of people that have guidance in the party.
I'd literally prefer that they remove the spell completely than go through with the changes proposed. They shouldn't even waste the word count if they're going to make it that garbage.
So, my default assumption is that, if they want to limit Guidance, just make it a leveled spell, maybe boost the die to a d6, or let it increase the number of dice or perhaps the die size if you upcast.
The problem with this, though, is that it just turns Guidance into Bardic Inspiration, except anyone can cast it. At this point, it does seem like it would be best to just drop the spell entirely. I think the problem you run into there, unfortunately, is the fac that One D&D is meant to be fully backwards compatible with 5e, where everything that isn't overtly errata'd still works with the new ruleset.
So, my default assumption is that, if they want to limit Guidance, just make it a leveled spell, maybe boost the die to a d6, or let it increase the number of dice or perhaps the die size if you upcast.
The problem with this, though, is that it just turns Guidance into Bardic Inspiration, except anyone can cast it. At this point, it does seem like it would be best to just drop the spell entirely. I think the problem you run into there, unfortunately, is the fac that One D&D is meant to be fully backwards compatible with 5e, where everything that isn't overtly errata'd still works with the new ruleset.
Bardic Inspiration doesn't cost a spell slot however, and guidance can stack with it. Plus Bardic Inspiration can boost other rolls while Guidance would only work on Ability Checks. So Bardic Inspiration would still have a distinction even if you could upcast Guidance.
Guidance should probably not have existed, but given that it does exist, they needed to do something about it, and the most obvious candidates are limiting how often it can be used (either per target, or per caster) and making it cost some resource (unclear what). The main other option is to change what it does (perhaps it winds up being a slightly improved help).
Guidance should probably not have existed, but given that it does exist, they needed to do something about it, and the most obvious candidates are limiting how often it can be used (either per target, or per caster) and making it cost some resource (unclear what). The main other option is to change what it does (perhaps it winds up being a slightly improved help).
Normally help is an action having guidance be a bonus action or a reaction to use the help action would be plausible but they would have to do something to avoid the spamming it all the time since advantage tends to be stronger than a d4.
Normally help is an action having guidance be a bonus action or a reaction to use the help action would be plausible but they would have to do something to avoid the spamming it all the time since advantage tends to be stronger than a d4.
The only reason people don't spam help outside of combat is because the DM doesn't generally permit it.
Normally help is an action having guidance be a bonus action or a reaction to use the help action would be plausible but they would have to do something to avoid the spamming it all the time since advantage tends to be stronger than a d4.
The only reason people don't spam help outside of combat is because the DM doesn't generally permit it.
Given how the rules for when you can help are pretty much up to DM... Not surprised but if the cantrip specifically allows it then it could be used for situations when help normally couldn't and players would likely try to abuse that.
Best compromise I've seen so far in this thread is that once guidance changes a failure into a success that individual can't benefit from guidance cast by this caster again until after a long rest.
Normally help is an action having guidance be a bonus action or a reaction to use the help action would be plausible but they would have to do something to avoid the spamming it all the time since advantage tends to be stronger than a d4.
The only reason people don't spam help outside of combat is because the DM doesn't generally permit it.
Guidance should probably not have existed, but given that it does exist, they needed to do something about it, and the most obvious candidates are limiting how often it can be used (either per target, or per caster) and making it cost some resource (unclear what). The main other option is to change what it does (perhaps it winds up being a slightly improved help).
Personally, I am of the opinion of buffing its effect, giving it a bigger die (and also removing the restriction in which it can only be used on a failed check), making it a 1st level spell so it requires the use of a spell slot. That way, while you can benefit from it multiple times a day, it requires the usage of a resource, in this case spell slots.
The "Once per Character per Day" nerf seems to have changed the spell for the worse. I don't mind changing it, as it was spammed far too frequently at my table, particularly at low levels. In fact, with their high Perception skill and the Guidance cantrip, clerics at my table have often used the Help action perpetually throughout the day to make sure that Rogues succeed at perception, investigation and disarming traps and picking locks, all day, every day, ad nauseum. But this... this change is just TOO much. Now instead of getting Guidance on every single check, as long as the cleric touches you within a minute before you use it, now you get it once in the morning and then you're done till tomorrow? That's far too restrictive.
There's a fine line when building cantrips to make a spell that's worth using one of your valuable cantrip slots on it, but won't be overpowered if they decide to spam the spell. This new variation missed the mark, relegating Guidance to the same role as Resistance and True Strike (which isn't even a cantrip). It's nice that they exist, because flavor, but no PC in their right mind would ever actually spend a known cantrip slot on it.
The "Once per Character per Day" nerf seems to have changed the spell for the worse. I don't mind changing it, as it was spammed far too frequently at my table, particularly at low levels. In fact, with their high Perception skill and the Guidance cantrip, clerics at my table have often used the Help action perpetually throughout the day to make sure that Rogues succeed at perception, investigation and disarming traps and picking locks, all day, every day, ad nauseum. But this... this change is just TOO much. Now instead of getting Guidance on every single check, as long as the cleric touches you within a minute before you use it, now you get it once in the morning and then you're done till tomorrow? That's far too restrictive.
There's a fine line when building cantrips to make a spell that's worth using one of your valuable cantrip slots on it, but won't be overpowered if they decide to spam the spell. This new variation missed the mark, relegating Guidance to the same role as Resistance and True Strike (which isn't even a cantrip). It's nice that they exist, because flavor, but no PC in their right mind would ever actually spend a known cantrip slot on it.
Technically this is not accurate as to the way current guidance works. They didn't just add a 24 hour limit they also changed how you cast it. It is now a reaction instead of an action and it triggers on you seeing someone fail a check just like bardic inspiration does. So if you are within 30 feet of someone who failed a check by 1 or 2, guidance can turn one failure per person to a success all without the "I cast guidance every minute, or I cast guidance for every single check all day". it also doesn't end up the way you are thinking where you cast it once at the start of the day and it gets wasted. If the person HARD failed the check, you just aren't going to cast it. If they failed by 4, unless it is a MUST make check for some reason, probably not going to cast it. It is worse, but it isn't THAT much worse.
Technically this is not accurate as to the way current guidance works. They didn't just add a 24 hour limit they also changed how you cast it. It is now a reaction instead of an action and it triggers on you seeing someone fail a check just like bardic inspiration does. So if you are within 30 feet of someone who failed a check by 1 or 2, guidance can turn one failure per person to a success all without the "I cast guidance every minute, or I cast guidance for every single check all day". it also doesn't end up the way you are thinking where you cast it once at the start of the day and it gets wasted. If the person HARD failed the check, you just aren't going to cast it. If they failed by 4, unless it is a MUST make check for some reason, probably not going to cast it. It is worse, but it isn't THAT much worse.
What I'm seeing here is a description of a cantrip that is so narrow in its application that people will forget they have it, and so limited in use that even when it can be applied, people will talk themselves out of using it because they might need it more later. Also, all of this assumes that the players know how close they are to success, and it is not a given that DMs will be that open with the DCs people are rolling against. Imagine wasting your one chance to get Guidance for the day on a roll where it can't even help you. That's only going to increase the propensity to second-guess using the cantrip.
Technically this is not accurate as to the way current guidance works. They didn't just add a 24 hour limit they also changed how you cast it. It is now a reaction instead of an action and it triggers on you seeing someone fail a check just like bardic inspiration does. So if you are within 30 feet of someone who failed a check by 1 or 2, guidance can turn one failure per person to a success all without the "I cast guidance every minute, or I cast guidance for every single check all day". it also doesn't end up the way you are thinking where you cast it once at the start of the day and it gets wasted. If the person HARD failed the check, you just aren't going to cast it. If they failed by 4, unless it is a MUST make check for some reason, probably not going to cast it. It is worse, but it isn't THAT much worse.
What I'm seeing here is a description of a cantrip that is so narrow in its application that people will forget they have it, and so limited in use that even when it can be applied, people will talk themselves out of using it because they might need it more later. Also, all of this assumes that the players know how close they are to success, and it is not a given that DMs will be that open with the DCs people are rolling against. Imagine wasting your one chance to get Guidance for the day on a roll where it can't even help you. That's only going to increase the propensity to second-guess using the cantrip.
Given the dirty looks given to the player going "GUIDANCE!" for EVERY single called for check in the game. It gets so bad that often the players "forget" or second guess casting the spell now as is.That is assuming the dirty look isnt from the DM. I have seen and heard of tables that have banned the spell just due to the abuse of it as of now.
Been seeing a lot of complaints lately over how the new iteration is nerfing this or that ABUSED ability/spell/feat/skill/feature. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the point of a new iteration? To close abuses of the game that make it unfun for a portion of the player base.
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If your players don't take it because of this, it's basically as good as banning it outright.
The Guidance changes are absolute dogshit. What's the point of it being a cantrip if it doesn't function like a cantrip. A cantrip is meant to be something you can use over and over without much limit to it. There's literally no point in taking it otherwise.
It's not once-per-day though. If you have 4 people in your party, you can cast it on each of them once. If you want to give it to an NPC, you can. Once you cast it on someone, they can't use it again until after they take a long rest.
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It gives a clutch bonus when needed that doesn't count against the number of spells cast. Yes it's a nerf but I feel it needs to be nerfed. This way I don't need to repeatedly tell my players no. You do not have a free 6 seconds to cast this spell. Or no you can not cast a spell with vocal components without them knowing what you are doing. Just my thoughts I prefer this new version to the spell.
No I get it. I'm more just saying if players are salty enough to not like this new version of it, it's basically a soft ban without the DMs having to really do anything. It might not be that extreme though.
I feel like this wouldn't be so bad if it said "you can not cast this on the same person until you finish a long rest" instead of "a person can not benefit from this effect for the next 24 hours". the problem this currently does is if there are multiple people with guidance the others are typically redundant. By allowing someone else to cast it on them it means that if more than one person has guidance then you can have one person benefit multiple times, but only the number of people that have guidance in the party.
I'd literally prefer that they remove the spell completely than go through with the changes proposed. They shouldn't even waste the word count if they're going to make it that garbage.
So, my default assumption is that, if they want to limit Guidance, just make it a leveled spell, maybe boost the die to a d6, or let it increase the number of dice or perhaps the die size if you upcast.
The problem with this, though, is that it just turns Guidance into Bardic Inspiration, except anyone can cast it. At this point, it does seem like it would be best to just drop the spell entirely. I think the problem you run into there, unfortunately, is the fac that One D&D is meant to be fully backwards compatible with 5e, where everything that isn't overtly errata'd still works with the new ruleset.
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Bardic Inspiration doesn't cost a spell slot however, and guidance can stack with it. Plus Bardic Inspiration can boost other rolls while Guidance would only work on Ability Checks. So Bardic Inspiration would still have a distinction even if you could upcast Guidance.
Guidance should probably not have existed, but given that it does exist, they needed to do something about it, and the most obvious candidates are limiting how often it can be used (either per target, or per caster) and making it cost some resource (unclear what). The main other option is to change what it does (perhaps it winds up being a slightly improved help).
Normally help is an action having guidance be a bonus action or a reaction to use the help action would be plausible but they would have to do something to avoid the spamming it all the time since advantage tends to be stronger than a d4.
The only reason people don't spam help outside of combat is because the DM doesn't generally permit it.
Given how the rules for when you can help are pretty much up to DM... Not surprised but if the cantrip specifically allows it then it could be used for situations when help normally couldn't and players would likely try to abuse that.
Best compromise I've seen so far in this thread is that once guidance changes a failure into a success that individual can't benefit from guidance cast by this caster again until after a long rest.
doesn't stop them from trying anyway
Personally, I am of the opinion of buffing its effect, giving it a bigger die (and also removing the restriction in which it can only be used on a failed check), making it a 1st level spell so it requires the use of a spell slot. That way, while you can benefit from it multiple times a day, it requires the usage of a resource, in this case spell slots.
The "Once per Character per Day" nerf seems to have changed the spell for the worse. I don't mind changing it, as it was spammed far too frequently at my table, particularly at low levels. In fact, with their high Perception skill and the Guidance cantrip, clerics at my table have often used the Help action perpetually throughout the day to make sure that Rogues succeed at perception, investigation and disarming traps and picking locks, all day, every day, ad nauseum. But this... this change is just TOO much. Now instead of getting Guidance on every single check, as long as the cleric touches you within a minute before you use it, now you get it once in the morning and then you're done till tomorrow? That's far too restrictive.
There's a fine line when building cantrips to make a spell that's worth using one of your valuable cantrip slots on it, but won't be overpowered if they decide to spam the spell. This new variation missed the mark, relegating Guidance to the same role as Resistance and True Strike (which isn't even a cantrip). It's nice that they exist, because flavor, but no PC in their right mind would ever actually spend a known cantrip slot on it.
Technically this is not accurate as to the way current guidance works. They didn't just add a 24 hour limit they also changed how you cast it. It is now a reaction instead of an action and it triggers on you seeing someone fail a check just like bardic inspiration does. So if you are within 30 feet of someone who failed a check by 1 or 2, guidance can turn one failure per person to a success all without the "I cast guidance every minute, or I cast guidance for every single check all day". it also doesn't end up the way you are thinking where you cast it once at the start of the day and it gets wasted. If the person HARD failed the check, you just aren't going to cast it. If they failed by 4, unless it is a MUST make check for some reason, probably not going to cast it. It is worse, but it isn't THAT much worse.
What I'm seeing here is a description of a cantrip that is so narrow in its application that people will forget they have it, and so limited in use that even when it can be applied, people will talk themselves out of using it because they might need it more later. Also, all of this assumes that the players know how close they are to success, and it is not a given that DMs will be that open with the DCs people are rolling against. Imagine wasting your one chance to get Guidance for the day on a roll where it can't even help you. That's only going to increase the propensity to second-guess using the cantrip.
Given the dirty looks given to the player going "GUIDANCE!" for EVERY single called for check in the game. It gets so bad that often the players "forget" or second guess casting the spell now as is.That is assuming the dirty look isnt from the DM.
I have seen and heard of tables that have banned the spell just due to the abuse of it as of now.
Been seeing a lot of complaints lately over how the new iteration is nerfing this or that ABUSED ability/spell/feat/skill/feature.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the point of a new iteration? To close abuses of the game that make it unfun for a portion of the player base.