i think it might be fine if they get rid of the once per day per player restriction, since it wouldnt be spammed, unless players are failing all the time (in which case they need it), which seems to be the primary complaint about its 5e incarnation. If DMs want to say using this in social situations will increase the DC, thats fine, its your table. Also, no more using it on initiative, although, not many were doing this and was easy to ban.
GUIDANCE
0-Level Divination Spell (Divine, Primal)
Casting Time: Reaction, which you take in response to you or an ally within 30 feet of you failing an Ability Check
Range: 30 feet
Component: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You channel magical insight to the creature who failed the Ability Check. That creature can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning it into a success.
So, your solution for what already was one of the best cantrips in the game is to essentially buff it from 5e: removing concentration, changing it from an action to a reaction, and giving it 30' of range instead of touch.
if the problem is overuse because people are using it for everything always, then limiting its use to only when there are fails would likely reduce use.
Did I misinterpret the intent of the redesign? Was it overpowered? Or was it overpowered because it could be overused?
OVERUSE That has always been its problem. Ever play a game of MTG? With a Blue Player? There is a card that says any time an opponent casts a spell unless they pay 1 mana more you get to draw a card. Here is how that goes... P1: casts a spell, P2: you gonna pay for that? P1: casts another spell, P2: You gonna pay for that? (rinse and repeat).
Conversations at the table with that cantrip... Acrobatic Rogue: I am going to parkour up to the roof. Cleric: Guidance! Fast Talking Bard: I am going to ... Cleric: Guidance! Fighter: I am... Cleric: Guidance! DM: Ranger make a survival... Cleric: Guidance!
To me it just sounds like people were playing guidance without any restrictions (Probably because they weren't immediately obvious)
Some items of note.
1. Casting a spell is visible/audible. People in the area know it's happening.
2. Longer duration activities aren't guaranteed to work. Only things that fit the window.
3. While casting guidance your actions are tied up. No helps or searching . Pick one creature to guide not everybody. Actions/turns still exist outside of combat they just aren't tied to 6 seconds. Tldr: as a scene reaction it's too late.
Playing by the rules original guidance isn't that bad, but the new change is probably for the best.
I'll be recommending short rest tracking instead of long rest.
3. While casting guidance your actions are tied up. No helps or searching.
Guidance takes up 1 action per minute. That's not going to prevent you from doing something else (it's a small distraction penalty; on a system that bothered with small modifiers I'd call it a -1).
Ok it's not much but it is a difference. I as a dm make everyone one choose thier actions before moving back to the same person. The player chooses how to spend their time. Helping requires the player to be available not doing other things like casting spells.
if people are taking 10 min actions you are one action short so you don't get the same benefits as others. That means no rituals or actions requiring specific times. Example Many modules say it takes X min to seach.
i think it might be fine if they get rid of the once per day per player restriction, since it wouldnt be spammed, unless players are failing all the time (in which case they need it), which seems to be the primary complaint about its 5e incarnation. If DMs want to say using this in social situations will increase the DC, thats fine, its your table. Also, no more using it on initiative, although, not many were doing this and was easy to ban.
GUIDANCE
0-Level Divination Spell (Divine, Primal)
Casting Time: Reaction, which you take in response to you or an ally within 30 feet of you failing an Ability Check
Range: 30 feet
Component: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You channel magical insight to the creature who failed the Ability Check. That creature can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning it into a success.
So, your solution for what already was one of the best cantrips in the game is to essentially buff it from 5e: removing concentration, changing it from an action to a reaction, and giving it 30' of range instead of touch.
if the problem is overuse because people are using it for everything always, then limiting its use to only when there are fails would likely reduce use.
Did I misinterpret the intent of the redesign? Was it overpowered? Or was it overpowered because it could be overused?
OVERUSE That has always been its problem. Ever play a game of MTG? With a Blue Player? There is a card that says any time an opponent casts a spell unless they pay 1 mana more you get to draw a card. Here is how that goes... P1: casts a spell, P2: you gonna pay for that? P1: casts another spell, P2: You gonna pay for that? (rinse and repeat).
Conversations at the table with that cantrip... Acrobatic Rogue: I am going to parkour up to the roof. Cleric: Guidance! Fast Talking Bard: I am going to ... Cleric: Guidance! Fighter: I am... Cleric: Guidance! DM: Ranger make a survival... Cleric: Guidance!
Jeremy Crawford literally talked about this in one of the videos, Guidance was not meant to be this spell that you spam on every ability check, that was too much for a cantrip and so they changed it to A) be a reaction and B) to once per day per character. Making it a reaction means it flows better with say social encounters, how did you know you needed guidance for that persuasion roll? A bit odd, so the change makes it fit in better to some of the common usages of Guidance.
Yes, but they should have at least linked it to your proficiency per day, so it is not useless.
i think it might be fine if they get rid of the once per day per player restriction, since it wouldnt be spammed, unless players are failing all the time (in which case they need it), which seems to be the primary complaint about its 5e incarnation. If DMs want to say using this in social situations will increase the DC, thats fine, its your table. Also, no more using it on initiative, although, not many were doing this and was easy to ban.
GUIDANCE
0-Level Divination Spell (Divine, Primal)
Casting Time: Reaction, which you take in response to you or an ally within 30 feet of you failing an Ability Check
Range: 30 feet
Component: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You channel magical insight to the creature who failed the Ability Check. That creature can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning it into a success.
So, your solution for what already was one of the best cantrips in the game is to essentially buff it from 5e: removing concentration, changing it from an action to a reaction, and giving it 30' of range instead of touch.
if the problem is overuse because people are using it for everything always, then limiting its use to only when there are fails would likely reduce use.
Did I misinterpret the intent of the redesign? Was it overpowered? Or was it overpowered because it could be overused?
OVERUSE That has always been its problem. Ever play a game of MTG? With a Blue Player? There is a card that says any time an opponent casts a spell unless they pay 1 mana more you get to draw a card. Here is how that goes... P1: casts a spell, P2: you gonna pay for that? P1: casts another spell, P2: You gonna pay for that? (rinse and repeat).
Conversations at the table with that cantrip... Acrobatic Rogue: I am going to parkour up to the roof. Cleric: Guidance! Fast Talking Bard: I am going to ... Cleric: Guidance! Fighter: I am... Cleric: Guidance! DM: Ranger make a survival... Cleric: Guidance!
The spell is not justBAH - ROH - KENit is annoying to every player at the table except the user.
Then making it a reaction should fix that problem
Not if it is still a repeatable cast. If anything that would make it more broken and annoying.
IMO it NEVER should have been a cantrip in the first place.
I already said this, but I feel it is worth mentioning again why not limit it to number of times per proficiency per day per player. It is still a reaction it is still spam-able, but it is limited enough to make it helpful without being annoying.
I already said this, but I feel it is worth mentioning again why not limit it to number of times per proficiency per day per player. It is still a reaction it is still spam-able, but it is limited enough to make it helpful without being annoying.
Note that it's currently once per target, not once per caster, so it's actually as many uses as there are PCs (and multiple people with it are almost totally useless).
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't even think it is a case of it being too good ir broken/op. The only issue is the spamming which can seem a bit too game-y to some people.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I have no problem with having drawbacks on things. Everything should have some sort of drawback Only other option could be to have it be less effective each time you cast it on a person a day. So a D4, then a D4-1, etc. I do like the don't cast it until after the roll. That way you save it for when you need it.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't even think it is a case of it being too good ir broken/op. The only issue is the spamming which can seem a bit too game-y to some people.
It's a cantrip that can grant everyone the equivalent of an extra proficiency bonus for every applicable check they make in tier 1 and 2 on average. It tails off, but by the time it isn't a big bonus you're in tier 4. That just makes DMs increase the DC of everything by a few points to maintain any sense of challenge, which results in a spell that only ends up causing breaks in the flow of a game with everyone going 'GUIDANCE' over and over.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't even think it is a case of it being too good ir broken/op. The only issue is the spamming which can seem a bit too game-y to some people.
It's a cantrip that can grant everyone the equivalent of an extra proficiency bonus for every applicable check they make in tier 1 and 2 on average. It tails off, but by the time it isn't a big bonus you're in tier 4. That just makes DMs increase the DC of everything by a few points to maintain any sense of challenge, which results in a spell that only ends up causing breaks in the flow of a game with everyone going 'GUIDANCE' over and over.
They shouldn't increase the DC because guidance is there. It isn't needed to maintain a sense of challenge. If that much of the challenge in the non-combat part of your game comes from the pure chance of the dice roll, that is an issue with your game. Most of the challenge should come from your players figuring things out based on the narrative you give them; which is partly shaped by their builds and in turn dice rolls, as that determines the various options they have at their disposal and the challenge should come from them figuring out how to use those tools in a creative manner to progress. The challenge should not come from primary the chance of failing. I am probably not explaining it too well, but Guidance never makes a game too easy because it boosts ability checks by an average of 2.5.
I min max and thus I grab Guidance whenever I can, but I know that it is not going to solve everything. It isn't going to get me out of a jam if I am reckless and stupid.
Honestly, in my group, we just assume we have guidance active most of the time and just roll the 1d4 unless the DM tells us we won't have it for this situation (time sensitivity, concentration, etc.). DC's are not bumped up just because of Guidance and challenge is still maintained. We only do the assumption until otherwise told so we are not saying Guidance all the time.
The issue with Guidance is not that it is broken or OP. It is with how much it is spammed. Hence why I say make it a 1st level spell, but give it a sizable boost in power so it retains the same level of usefulness.
This(and several other changes) all sounds like the core issue is training players and DMs how skills should be used. Both from a gameplay standpoint and a world building standpoint.
I am tempted to poll some skill basics just to see what table norms really are.
I already said this, but I feel it is worth mentioning again why not limit it to number of times per proficiency per day per player. It is still a reaction it is still spam-able, but it is limited enough to make it helpful without being annoying.
Note that it's currently once per target, not once per caster, so it's actually as many uses as there are PCs (and multiple people with it are almost totally useless).
Yes, that is why I think it should be changes to just a number of uses per character level for that character instead of just once. This way you can use it twice on your level 1-4 party members and twice on everyone level 5-8. Plus, once per npc. This makes the spell feel more flexible but also not spam able. I just see one per day abilities and spells fall into the to good to waist, so they never get used limbo and I thought this would be a better fix.
Yes, I would not let Mutiple casters take the spell and stack it either I hope this clarifies my change.
I already said this, but I feel it is worth mentioning again why not limit it to number of times per proficiency per day per player. It is still a reaction it is still spam-able, but it is limited enough to make it helpful without being annoying.
Note that it's currently once per target, not once per caster, so it's actually as many uses as there are PCs (and multiple people with it are almost totally useless).
Yes, that is why I think it should be changes to just a number of uses per character level for that character instead of just once. This way you can use it twice on your level 1-4 party members and twice on everyone level 5-8. Plus, once per npc. This makes the spell feel more flexible but also not spam able. I just see one per day abilities and spells fall into the to good to waist, so they never get used limbo and I thought this would be a better fix.
Yes, I would not let Mutiple casters take the spell and stack it either I hope this clarifies my change.
I think this proposal is why people just want it to be a first level spell.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't even think it is a case of it being too good ir broken/op. The only issue is the spamming which can seem a bit too game-y to some people.
It's a cantrip that can grant everyone the equivalent of an extra proficiency bonus for every applicable check they make in tier 1 and 2 on average. It tails off, but by the time it isn't a big bonus you're in tier 4. That just makes DMs increase the DC of everything by a few points to maintain any sense of challenge, which results in a spell that only ends up causing breaks in the flow of a game with everyone going 'GUIDANCE' over and over.
They shouldn't increase the DC because guidance is there. It isn't needed to maintain a sense of challenge. If that much of the challenge in the non-combat part of your game comes from the pure chance of the dice roll, that is an issue with your game. Most of the challenge should come from your players figuring things out based on the narrative you give them; which is partly shaped by their builds and in turn dice rolls, as that determines the various options they have at their disposal and the challenge should come from them figuring out how to use those tools in a creative manner to progress. The challenge should not come from primary the chance of failing. I am probably not explaining it too well, but Guidance never makes a game too easy because it boosts ability checks by an average of 2.5.
I min max and thus I grab Guidance whenever I can, but I know that it is not going to solve everything. It isn't going to get me out of a jam if I am reckless and stupid.
Honestly, in my group, we just assume we have guidance active most of the time and just roll the 1d4 unless the DM tells us we won't have it for this situation (time sensitivity, concentration, etc.). DC's are not bumped up just because of Guidance and challenge is still maintained. We only do the assumption until otherwise told so we are not saying Guidance all the time.
The issue with Guidance is not that it is broken or OP. It is with how much it is spammed. Hence why I say make it a 1st level spell, but give it a sizable boost in power so it retains the same level of usefulness.
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't even think it is a case of it being too good ir broken/op. The only issue is the spamming which can seem a bit too game-y to some people.
It's a cantrip that can grant everyone the equivalent of an extra proficiency bonus for every applicable check they make in tier 1 and 2 on average. It tails off, but by the time it isn't a big bonus you're in tier 4. That just makes DMs increase the DC of everything by a few points to maintain any sense of challenge, which results in a spell that only ends up causing breaks in the flow of a game with everyone going 'GUIDANCE' over and over.
They shouldn't increase the DC because guidance is there. It isn't needed to maintain a sense of challenge. If that much of the challenge in the non-combat part of your game comes from the pure chance of the dice roll, that is an issue with your game. Most of the challenge should come from your players figuring things out based on the narrative you give them; which is partly shaped by their builds and in turn dice rolls, as that determines the various options they have at their disposal and the challenge should come from them figuring out how to use those tools in a creative manner to progress. The challenge should not come from primary the chance of failing. I am probably not explaining it too well, but Guidance never makes a game too easy because it boosts ability checks by an average of 2.5.
I min max and thus I grab Guidance whenever I can, but I know that it is not going to solve everything. It isn't going to get me out of a jam if I am reckless and stupid.
Honestly, in my group, we just assume we have guidance active most of the time and just roll the 1d4 unless the DM tells us we won't have it for this situation (time sensitivity, concentration, etc.). DC's are not bumped up just because of Guidance and challenge is still maintained. We only do the assumption until otherwise told so we are not saying Guidance all the time.
The issue with Guidance is not that it is broken or OP. It is with how much it is spammed. Hence why I say make it a 1st level spell, but give it a sizable boost in power so it retains the same level of usefulness.
I think that is part of the issue of just expecting to have guidance active all of the time. Then someone might forget that you already used your bonus action and can't use guidance and adds it reflexively or the fact that it goes from being a fun moment of inspiration to convince the guard or king to aid in your quest or the troll to give you safe passage or make that last saving through preventing death. It just oh right the extra d4 meh.
The spamming makes a Ho wow you saved me with that guidance there to meh +1d4. I do think once per day is too restrictive and you have a point about but a +1d4 is too weak for a 1st level spell slot on a spell that won't scale.
I also see where it is useless as a just once per day spell that is my subjection was a number of times per proficiency per character. SO, a party of 4 can use it 8 times per day and 5th level party of 4 can use it 12 times per day. It can still be useful you get to feel amazing when it matters, and you see it as useful without it being annoying or a passive +1d4 meh.
If you found this to restrictive you could even, make it number uses per proficiency per caster per-day instead of character. Then the bard can cast guidance it twice on the rouge and the paladin can cast guidance twice on the rouge or the elf rouge could cast guidance on themselves (thanks to a feat), the bard could then cast guidance, and finally the paladin adds their guidance leading to +3d4 on a sneak attack that would have missed or a successful pick pocket of keys.
If you found this to restrictive you could even, make it number uses per proficiency per caster per-day instead of character. Then the bard can cast guidance it twice on the rouge and the paladin can cast guidance twice on the rouge or the elf rouge could cast guidance on themselves (thanks to a feat), the bard could then cast guidance, and finally the paladin adds their guidance leading to +3d4 on a sneak attack that would have missed or a successful pick pocket of keys.
That's not how things work in DnD. A single spell, magic item, feature, or just about anything else can only affect somebody once. You cannot stack buffs (or debuffs) from any two things with the same name. The only real exception is if a single spell has multiple options, like symbol. Getting 3d4 from guidance is impossible, especially so on attack rolls since guidance only works on ability checks.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
If you found this to restrictive you could even, make it number uses per proficiency per caster per-day instead of character. Then the bard can cast guidance it twice on the rouge and the paladin can cast guidance twice on the rouge or the elf rouge could cast guidance on themselves (thanks to a feat), the bard could then cast guidance, and finally the paladin adds their guidance leading to +3d4 on a sneak attack that would have missed or a successful pick pocket of keys.
That's not how things work in DnD. A single spell, magic item, feature, or just about anything else can only affect somebody once. You cannot stack buffs (or debuffs) from any two things with the same name. The only real exception is if a single spell has multiple options, like symbol. Getting 3d4 from guidance is impossible, especially so on attack rolls since guidance only works on ability checks.
Yes, they stated in the video that you can use inspiration with bardic inspiration they are different things you just can't stack the same spell.
This is one of the issues with having two hunters they both can't use hunters mark on the same enemy. Oh, I need to point that out in the survey as yet another reson why ity should not be a spell.
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Then making it a reaction should fix that problem
To me it just sounds like people were playing guidance without any restrictions (Probably because they weren't immediately obvious)
Some items of note.
1. Casting a spell is visible/audible. People in the area know it's happening.
2. Longer duration activities aren't guaranteed to work. Only things that fit the window.
3. While casting guidance your actions are tied up. No helps or searching . Pick one creature to guide not everybody. Actions/turns still exist outside of combat they just aren't tied to 6 seconds. Tldr: as a scene reaction it's too late.
Playing by the rules original guidance isn't that bad, but the new change is probably for the best.
I'll be recommending short rest tracking instead of long rest.
Guidance takes up 1 action per minute. That's not going to prevent you from doing something else (it's a small distraction penalty; on a system that bothered with small modifiers I'd call it a -1).
Ok it's not much but it is a difference. I as a dm make everyone one choose thier actions before moving back to the same person. The player chooses how to spend their time. Helping requires the player to be available not doing other things like casting spells.
if people are taking 10 min actions you are one action short so you don't get the same benefits as others. That means no rituals or actions requiring specific times. Example Many modules say it takes X min to seach.
Not if it is still a repeatable cast.
If anything that would make it more broken and annoying.
IMO it NEVER should have been a cantrip in the first place.
Yes, but they should have at least linked it to your proficiency per day, so it is not useless.
I already said this, but I feel it is worth mentioning again why not limit it to number of times per proficiency per day per player. It is still a reaction it is still spam-able, but it is limited enough to make it helpful without being annoying.
Note that it's currently once per target, not once per caster, so it's actually as many uses as there are PCs (and multiple people with it are almost totally useless).
I don't know what the answer is. Everything I've come up with or read has some drawback. I like Guidance. It think it's great thematically. I like the idea of Clerics having a cantrip that is essentially praying for a little help. I like that even a novice acolyte can do it. But I think it might need a complete rework.
If it's a leveled spell, you lose some of that. If it's limited, it's not really a cantrip. And people might hold onto it like inspiration. If you have to track it, it's annoying. If it doesn't change, it's even more annoying.
I'm going to use it when I playtest it. I'll spam it as much as I can and record the results. Then I'll see how bad it would be if there was no limit per character day. Or if you only lose it if you succeed.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that most everybody likes the idea of Guidance, but it seems too good/too ripe for abuse as a cantrip, but probably too weak as a 1st level spell. If it is a reaction spell, it is almost identical to the 1DD Bardic Inspiration, but worse because it can only be used for one kind of d20 test. I do not envy the game designers and hope that they will find a proper, balanced solution because anything that has been suggested so far here really does have its problems.
I don't even think it is a case of it being too good ir broken/op. The only issue is the spamming which can seem a bit too game-y to some people.
I have no problem with having drawbacks on things. Everything should have some sort of drawback
Only other option could be to have it be less effective each time you cast it on a person a day. So a D4, then a D4-1, etc.
I do like the don't cast it until after the roll. That way you save it for when you need it.
It's a cantrip that can grant everyone the equivalent of an extra proficiency bonus for every applicable check they make in tier 1 and 2 on average. It tails off, but by the time it isn't a big bonus you're in tier 4. That just makes DMs increase the DC of everything by a few points to maintain any sense of challenge, which results in a spell that only ends up causing breaks in the flow of a game with everyone going 'GUIDANCE' over and over.
They shouldn't increase the DC because guidance is there. It isn't needed to maintain a sense of challenge. If that much of the challenge in the non-combat part of your game comes from the pure chance of the dice roll, that is an issue with your game. Most of the challenge should come from your players figuring things out based on the narrative you give them; which is partly shaped by their builds and in turn dice rolls, as that determines the various options they have at their disposal and the challenge should come from them figuring out how to use those tools in a creative manner to progress. The challenge should not come from primary the chance of failing. I am probably not explaining it too well, but Guidance never makes a game too easy because it boosts ability checks by an average of 2.5.
I min max and thus I grab Guidance whenever I can, but I know that it is not going to solve everything. It isn't going to get me out of a jam if I am reckless and stupid.
Honestly, in my group, we just assume we have guidance active most of the time and just roll the 1d4 unless the DM tells us we won't have it for this situation (time sensitivity, concentration, etc.). DC's are not bumped up just because of Guidance and challenge is still maintained. We only do the assumption until otherwise told so we are not saying Guidance all the time.
The issue with Guidance is not that it is broken or OP. It is with how much it is spammed. Hence why I say make it a 1st level spell, but give it a sizable boost in power so it retains the same level of usefulness.
This(and several other changes) all sounds like the core issue is training players and DMs how skills should be used. Both from a gameplay standpoint and a world building standpoint.
I am tempted to poll some skill basics just to see what table norms really are.
Yes, that is why I think it should be changes to just a number of uses per character level for that character instead of just once. This way you can use it twice on your level 1-4 party members and twice on everyone level 5-8. Plus, once per npc. This makes the spell feel more flexible but also not spam able. I just see one per day abilities and spells fall into the to good to waist, so they never get used limbo and I thought this would be a better fix.
Yes, I would not let Mutiple casters take the spell and stack it either I hope this clarifies my change.
I think this proposal is why people just want it to be a first level spell.
I think that is part of the issue of just expecting to have guidance active all of the time. Then someone might forget that you already used your bonus action and can't use guidance and adds it reflexively or the fact that it goes from being a fun moment of inspiration to convince the guard or king to aid in your quest or the troll to give you safe passage or make that last saving through preventing death. It just oh right the extra d4 meh.
The spamming makes a Ho wow you saved me with that guidance there to meh +1d4. I do think once per day is too restrictive and you have a point about but a +1d4 is too weak for a 1st level spell slot on a spell that won't scale.
I also see where it is useless as a just once per day spell that is my subjection was a number of times per proficiency per character. SO, a party of 4 can use it 8 times per day and 5th level party of 4 can use it 12 times per day. It can still be useful you get to feel amazing when it matters, and you see it as useful without it being annoying or a passive +1d4 meh.
If you found this to restrictive you could even, make it number uses per proficiency per caster per-day instead of character. Then the bard can cast guidance it twice on the rouge and the paladin can cast guidance twice on the rouge or the elf rouge could cast guidance on themselves (thanks to a feat), the bard could then cast guidance, and finally the paladin adds their guidance leading to +3d4 on a sneak attack that would have missed or a successful pick pocket of keys.
That's not how things work in DnD. A single spell, magic item, feature, or just about anything else can only affect somebody once. You cannot stack buffs (or debuffs) from any two things with the same name. The only real exception is if a single spell has multiple options, like symbol. Getting 3d4 from guidance is impossible, especially so on attack rolls since guidance only works on ability checks.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Yes, they stated in the video that you can use inspiration with bardic inspiration they are different things you just can't stack the same spell.
This is one of the issues with having two hunters they both can't use hunters mark on the same enemy. Oh, I need to point that out in the survey as yet another reson why ity should not be a spell.