the thing with wild shape and hp is that its inline with other magics (yeah i know its not a spell but its still a magical transformation and gets affected by antimagic fields) spells like polymorph, animal shape, shape change, mass polymorph and true polymorph all give you the hp of the creature youve turned into and drop out at 0 just like how wild shape works. wild shape is essentially a free weaker (kind of) version of polymorph that can be used twice per short rest for free. i dont mind if they changed it to x amount of times per long rest if they think its too powerful but in general its not much different than using those type of spells
Generalizing wildshap makes it pointless. It's so fun to pick animal stat blocks and having all the differences. This change is horrible, and makes one of the main points of a druid so much worse
i do agree picking your animal form is fun. the reason our group changed to the template idea was because encountering servicable beasts that made sense in the campaign wasnt something our dm was doing so was stuck at cr2 or 3 beasts so the template allowed it to level up(ish) as the party did with limited issues (using dndbeyond doesnt really make the whole searching mm an issue)
A lot of these "new" and higher level abilities are things the druid could already do! Turning tiny is now a high level thing? I could turn into a mouse or spider way earlier. Why make it sound like a good new thing when you are really taking stuff we already had and making it a higher level thing that we don't get until later. So dumb
What if when WS is used u get ur health FULL? i think that was the intent to just keep it on the same amount just get healed, would that take care of the problem?
the thing with wild shape and hp is that its inline with other magics (yeah i know its not a spell but its still a magical transformation and gets affected by antimagic fields) spells like polymorph, animal shape, shape change, mass polymorph and true polymorph all give you the hp of the creature youve turned into and drop out at 0 just like how wild shape works. wild shape is essentially a free weaker (kind of) version of polymorph that can be used twice per short rest for free. i dont mind if they changed it to x amount of times per long rest if they think its too powerful but in general its not much different than using those type of spells
Actually, changing it to something like Druid level/2 round up times per day would work for me. It at least brings it back into the realm of needing to manage a resource that is limited by long rests so sure, you can take damage like a fighter or scout like a rogue for a little while but then you're done and you need to rely on your spells.
For moon druids, maybe add in some kind of buff like being allowed to add in your PB to your to hit rolls and your AC while shaped once you hit level 6.
Okay I admit I hate what familiars are in 5e, either advantage spam or perfect scouts all for the low low price of 10GP or for the druid in one a expenditure of their channel nature, which lets face it you do when you wake up and take a immediate short rest over breakfast and regain. For any spell caster who has access it feels so good you have to take it, and its so good its worth a feat to get for any class. They went from a occasionally useful but mainly a small perk with more of a role playing focus to a almost must have.
They removed flyby so the advantage spam is at least reduced to where it has to stick in the fight. They are more durable in that their first death is free. But at least advantage spam is reduced. They are still perfect scouts. I am going to suggest that their otherworldly origin should be visible at a distance, so they actually have to sneak instead of sort of sneak and the enemy see a spider or whatever and then ignores it.
I keep seeing the comment "no one plays druid" this is vastly different than my experience.
For reference I assisted in running an in store dnd group (2 AL tables 1 free table )as well as play on line with players across the world. Druids seem to be present at 85-95% of the games.
There seems to be less of a presence in Liveplay but not to the point where they are Rarer than other specialized classes.
Can any one support or debunk such claims?
I frankly dont think the arguement is even relevant. If the claim is druid is the least played on ddb and the theory is because of wild shape complexity, well I just dont buy it. Ddb with the "Extras" feafure makes wild shape very easy to manage under current rules.
Some class always has to be the least played. Blaming such on wild shape seems like an excuse
PS very much against the dumbing down of the druid.
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes presented in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes. I, for one, think that the new druid is fabulous with the exception of the loss of Planeshift, which I see as a spell to get rid of non-natural creatures, as well as granting the ability to visit the Inner Planes, from which their power flows.
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes.
I'm not looking for more powerful; the Moon Druid does need the nerf bat in tier 1. However, whatever new version there is should be functional, having half of a class's special features tied up in something that is completely useless is bad design.
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes presented in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes. I, for one, think that the new druid is fabulous with the exception of the loss of Planeshift, which I see as a spell to get rid of non-natural creatures, as well as granting the ability to visit the Inner Planes, from which their power flows.
It isn't about power. You could easily argue druid isn't any weaker now than it was before because druids are full casters. Even Moon Druid, often declared OP due to its "amazing" melee prowess, ended up mainly relying on spells halfway through the campaign. Your spellcasting is just way too versatile and powerful.
People are mad about the massive loss of the druid's flavor and the fact that an entire feature was made so bad that it is an active detriment to use it except as a form of transportation.
It is now pointless to use Wildshape until 17th level because until then choosing to become a mediocre melee creature rather than retain your impressive spell access is almost never a good tactical choice. Even as a Moon Druid, which is the sub-class that is supposed to focus on improving Wildshape to the exclusion of everything else.
Okay I admit I hate what familiars are in 5e, either advantage spam or perfect scouts all for the low low price of 10GP or for the druid in one a expenditure of their channel nature, which lets face it you do when you wake up and take a immediate short rest over breakfast and regain. For any spell caster who has access it feels so good you have to take it, and its so good its worth a feat to get for any class. They went from a occasionally useful but mainly a small perk with more of a role playing focus to a almost must have.
They removed flyby so the advantage spam is at least reduced to where it has to stick in the fight. They are more durable in that their first death is free. But at least advantage spam is reduced. They are still perfect scouts. I am going to suggest that their otherworldly origin should be visible at a distance, so they actually have to sneak instead of sort of sneak and the enemy see a spider or whatever and then ignores it.
I agree, mostly... I'm not sure why it's so successful, either.
My archers kill enemy owls on sight...
But in my home games, I've always ruled that the familiar is a creature you found and bonded with... Then enhanced as wizards do.
Generalizing wildshap makes it pointless. It's so fun to pick animal stat blocks and having all the differences. This change is horrible, and makes one of the main points of a druid so much worse
I wonder if the Tasha's ranger treatment is the solution.
Either choose a beast with CR < blah, or use the following stat block.
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes presented in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes. I, for one, think that the new druid is fabulous with the exception of the loss of Planeshift, which I see as a spell to get rid of non-natural creatures, as well as granting the ability to visit the Inner Planes, from which their power flows.
its not wanting it to be more powerful but at least in line with other classes and for our features to have a use as it is in the ua wildshape is essentially useless. i agree early moon druids are op but later ones are not (apart from level 20 ones or elemental forms). having a general stat block like the rangers have doenst bother me too much but removing the hp pool and having tiny as a level 11 feature with its time restrictions is just dumb
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes presented in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes. I, for one, think that the new druid is fabulous with the exception of the loss of Planeshift, which I see as a spell to get rid of non-natural creatures, as well as granting the ability to visit the Inner Planes, from which their power flows.
Which thread are you reading? 'Cos it ain't this one or any I've read.
Very few people have asked for more power than 5e. Most have asked for it to adjusted, mostly an overall downwards adjustment. The thing is, you can't just hit something with the nerfbat and walk away, especially when you're competing with the original - remember, without DM intervention, people will have the choice between 5e and 1D&D Druids...why would they willingly choose something that strictly worse? And if it's not willing...then you're causing contention at the table before the game proper has even started.
Here's the short version of what's happened. They nerfed the central feature of the class so hard that it's become a noob trap - beginners will think it's awesome and use it, but it's actually worse than if they never used the feature.
Should they have pulled WS back? I'd say that really it needed adjusting. There is a brief spike where it needed to be toned down. There are also quite a few levels where it needed to be boosted. It doesn't have the same power curve as most classes and so had problems - both being OP and UP.
What they could have done was wind back WS a bit, and then give the Druid other powers that smoothed out that curve to match other classes. Something that kicked in at around L5 or L6 that would slowly increase the power to account for the increasingly flagging WS. Instead, they hit WS with the nerfbat, gave it a minor boost to pretend they actually did some work, then called it a day.
The 1D&D Druid (and indeed, all new classes) need something new over their 5e counterparts to make them attractive and desirable over them. Not necessarily more powerful, but something different. The 1D&D Druid and Circle of the Moon is a masterclass in how not to do it. Obviously there'll be changes, but if there hypothetically weren't, I'd never play the new Moon Druid (or likely any other nuDruid). I'd much rather play 5e Moon Druid because nuMoonies just don't offer anything worth having over 5eMoonies. Yay, I can heal while in animal form...as opposed to before where I could just change forms and regain much more health.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes presented in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes. I, for one, think that the new druid is fabulous with the exception of the loss of Planeshift, which I see as a spell to get rid of non-natural creatures, as well as granting the ability to visit the Inner Planes, from which their power flows.
It's not to do with overall power. It is the fact that nearly every class and subclass feature presented is a useless trap. No druid should ever wildshape in One D&D. Not regular druids, not Moon Druids. Wildshaping now just cripples your character in exchange for mediocre melee damage that you get to use for 1 round then you are dead. I would prefer it if they just deleted Wildshape entirely if this is the alternative because then at least players wouldn't choose the class thinking they will be a shapeshifter and then be disappointed when they realize the shapeshifting it utterly useless.
i am dreadding doing my playtest sessions whith this new druid luckily created a ingame backstory to explain the change in abilities and that it is a temporary shift allowing to playtest 1dnd druid as is and then some homebrew changes to see what works better so can give more creative feedback but gonna be some bad sessions
one thing im not keen on is how you can just choose how your form appears why wouldnt we just choose a form that can use our equipment so get benefits that way so being able to use a +3 longsword and shield etc just seems a bit too odd
i am dreadding doing my playtest sessions whith this new druid luckily created a ingame backstory to explain the change in abilities and that it is a temporary shift allowing to playtest 1dnd druid as is and then some homebrew changes to see what works better so can give more creative feedback but gonna be some bad sessions
one thing im not keen on is how you can just choose how your form appears why wouldnt we just choose a form that can use our equipment so get benefits that way so being able to use a +3 longsword and shield etc just seems a bit too odd
They have taken away the language allowing you to keep your gear & use it while in WS, all your gear is absorbed into the new form, so you can't get benefits from it.
This makes me think, I'd really like a Druid in One D&D that can inflict it's WS onto enemies....
i am dreadding doing my playtest sessions whith this new druid luckily created a ingame backstory to explain the change in abilities and that it is a temporary shift allowing to playtest 1dnd druid as is and then some homebrew changes to see what works better so can give more creative feedback but gonna be some bad sessions
one thing im not keen on is how you can just choose how your form appears why wouldnt we just choose a form that can use our equipment so get benefits that way so being able to use a +3 longsword and shield etc just seems a bit too odd
They have taken away the language allowing you to keep your gear & use it while in WS, all your gear is absorbed into the new form, so you can't get benefits from it.
This makes me think, I'd really like a Druid in One D&D that can inflict it's WS onto enemies....
Isn't that what Polymorph is for?
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the thing with wild shape and hp is that its inline with other magics (yeah i know its not a spell but its still a magical transformation and gets affected by antimagic fields) spells like polymorph, animal shape, shape change, mass polymorph and true polymorph all give you the hp of the creature youve turned into and drop out at 0 just like how wild shape works. wild shape is essentially a free weaker (kind of) version of polymorph that can be used twice per short rest for free. i dont mind if they changed it to x amount of times per long rest if they think its too powerful but in general its not much different than using those type of spells
Generalizing wildshap makes it pointless. It's so fun to pick animal stat blocks and having all the differences. This change is horrible, and makes one of the main points of a druid so much worse
i do agree picking your animal form is fun. the reason our group changed to the template idea was because encountering servicable beasts that made sense in the campaign wasnt something our dm was doing so was stuck at cr2 or 3 beasts so the template allowed it to level up(ish) as the party did with limited issues (using dndbeyond doesnt really make the whole searching mm an issue)
A lot of these "new" and higher level abilities are things the druid could already do! Turning tiny is now a high level thing? I could turn into a mouse or spider way earlier. Why make it sound like a good new thing when you are really taking stuff we already had and making it a higher level thing that we don't get until later. So dumb
What if when WS is used u get ur health FULL? i think that was the intent to just keep it on the same amount just get healed, would that take care of the problem?
Actually, changing it to something like Druid level/2 round up times per day would work for me. It at least brings it back into the realm of needing to manage a resource that is limited by long rests so sure, you can take damage like a fighter or scout like a rogue for a little while but then you're done and you need to rely on your spells.
For moon druids, maybe add in some kind of buff like being allowed to add in your PB to your to hit rolls and your AC while shaped once you hit level 6.
that could work as well
The familiar..
Okay I admit I hate what familiars are in 5e, either advantage spam or perfect scouts all for the low low price of 10GP or for the druid in one a expenditure of their channel nature, which lets face it you do when you wake up and take a immediate short rest over breakfast and regain. For any spell caster who has access it feels so good you have to take it, and its so good its worth a feat to get for any class. They went from a occasionally useful but mainly a small perk with more of a role playing focus to a almost must have.
They removed flyby so the advantage spam is at least reduced to where it has to stick in the fight. They are more durable in that their first death is free. But at least advantage spam is reduced. They are still perfect scouts. I am going to suggest that their otherworldly origin should be visible at a distance, so they actually have to sneak instead of sort of sneak and the enemy see a spider or whatever and then ignores it.
I frankly dont think the arguement is even relevant. If the claim is druid is the least played on ddb and the theory is because of wild shape complexity, well I just dont buy it. Ddb with the "Extras" feafure makes wild shape very easy to manage under current rules.
Some class always has to be the least played. Blaming such on wild shape seems like an excuse
PS very much against the dumbing down of the druid.
I see a lot of people on here looking for more powerful versions of the classes presented in the 2014 PH rather than better-for-the-overall-experience-of-the-game versions of classes. I, for one, think that the new druid is fabulous with the exception of the loss of Planeshift, which I see as a spell to get rid of non-natural creatures, as well as granting the ability to visit the Inner Planes, from which their power flows.
I'm not looking for more powerful; the Moon Druid does need the nerf bat in tier 1. However, whatever new version there is should be functional, having half of a class's special features tied up in something that is completely useless is bad design.
It isn't about power. You could easily argue druid isn't any weaker now than it was before because druids are full casters. Even Moon Druid, often declared OP due to its "amazing" melee prowess, ended up mainly relying on spells halfway through the campaign. Your spellcasting is just way too versatile and powerful.
People are mad about the massive loss of the druid's flavor and the fact that an entire feature was made so bad that it is an active detriment to use it except as a form of transportation.
It is now pointless to use Wildshape until 17th level because until then choosing to become a mediocre melee creature rather than retain your impressive spell access is almost never a good tactical choice. Even as a Moon Druid, which is the sub-class that is supposed to focus on improving Wildshape to the exclusion of everything else.
I agree, mostly... I'm not sure why it's so successful, either.
My archers kill enemy owls on sight...
But in my home games, I've always ruled that the familiar is a creature you found and bonded with... Then enhanced as wizards do.
I wonder if the Tasha's ranger treatment is the solution.
Either choose a beast with CR < blah, or use the following stat block.
its not wanting it to be more powerful but at least in line with other classes and for our features to have a use as it is in the ua wildshape is essentially useless. i agree early moon druids are op but later ones are not (apart from level 20 ones or elemental forms). having a general stat block like the rangers have doenst bother me too much but removing the hp pool and having tiny as a level 11 feature with its time restrictions is just dumb
Which thread are you reading? 'Cos it ain't this one or any I've read.
Very few people have asked for more power than 5e. Most have asked for it to adjusted, mostly an overall downwards adjustment. The thing is, you can't just hit something with the nerfbat and walk away, especially when you're competing with the original - remember, without DM intervention, people will have the choice between 5e and 1D&D Druids...why would they willingly choose something that strictly worse? And if it's not willing...then you're causing contention at the table before the game proper has even started.
Here's the short version of what's happened. They nerfed the central feature of the class so hard that it's become a noob trap - beginners will think it's awesome and use it, but it's actually worse than if they never used the feature.
Should they have pulled WS back? I'd say that really it needed adjusting. There is a brief spike where it needed to be toned down. There are also quite a few levels where it needed to be boosted. It doesn't have the same power curve as most classes and so had problems - both being OP and UP.
What they could have done was wind back WS a bit, and then give the Druid other powers that smoothed out that curve to match other classes. Something that kicked in at around L5 or L6 that would slowly increase the power to account for the increasingly flagging WS. Instead, they hit WS with the nerfbat, gave it a minor boost to pretend they actually did some work, then called it a day.
The 1D&D Druid (and indeed, all new classes) need something new over their 5e counterparts to make them attractive and desirable over them. Not necessarily more powerful, but something different. The 1D&D Druid and Circle of the Moon is a masterclass in how not to do it. Obviously there'll be changes, but if there hypothetically weren't, I'd never play the new Moon Druid (or likely any other nuDruid). I'd much rather play 5e Moon Druid because nuMoonies just don't offer anything worth having over 5eMoonies. Yay, I can heal while in animal form...as opposed to before where I could just change forms and regain much more health.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's not to do with overall power. It is the fact that nearly every class and subclass feature presented is a useless trap. No druid should ever wildshape in One D&D. Not regular druids, not Moon Druids. Wildshaping now just cripples your character in exchange for mediocre melee damage that you get to use for 1 round then you are dead. I would prefer it if they just deleted Wildshape entirely if this is the alternative because then at least players wouldn't choose the class thinking they will be a shapeshifter and then be disappointed when they realize the shapeshifting it utterly useless.
i am dreadding doing my playtest sessions whith this new druid luckily created a ingame backstory to explain the change in abilities and that it is a temporary shift allowing to playtest 1dnd druid as is and then some homebrew changes to see what works better so can give more creative feedback but gonna be some bad sessions
one thing im not keen on is how you can just choose how your form appears why wouldnt we just choose a form that can use our equipment so get benefits that way so being able to use a +3 longsword and shield etc just seems a bit too odd
They have taken away the language allowing you to keep your gear & use it while in WS, all your gear is absorbed into the new form, so you can't get benefits from it.
This makes me think, I'd really like a Druid in One D&D that can inflict it's WS onto enemies....
Isn't that what Polymorph is for?