Dramatically increasing the maximum number of Eldritch Invocations could reach to hardly balancing situations.
But would not be a bad idea to allow invocations to scale. So you get an invocation that grants you a base spell casting level (like the False Life one), getting it multiple times (when reaching the required level) you could upgrade the casting level.
Taking that idea and making most invocations to scale when acquired multiple times could work. So you would have the possibility to scale each invocation effect up to your liking (including the magic ones).
But then all invocations should be revised, as getting a nice advantage only paying one invocation (like devil's sight) would be unbalanced, so all should be scalable. I.e. the devil's sight could grant dark vision longer with each acquisition, and allowing to see in magical darkness with the last one.
The main problem with magic as invocations is the multi-class stuff.
Honestly using this progression and calling it Pact Magic so it is separate from spellcasting slots is probably the simplest fix. We get rid of Mystic Arcanum tax. Get more spell slots per day and don’t have to worry about short rest recharge. Invocation can go back down to 8. Where this concept gets weird is if you multiclass. A 5 warlock/ 5 Sorcerer would have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd pact magic slots and 4 1st, 3 2nd, and 2 3rd from spellcasting slots bringing you to a total of 6 1st, 5 2nd, and 4 3rd level slots that all literally work the same way. A normal single fullcaster or multiclass would have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th. This makes multiclassing a warlock much weaker since this version of pact magic is long rest recharge. The benefit to 5e version was you could potentially get 6+ 3rd level castings from pact magic so it didn’t feel as bad losing the higher level slots. Though most would avoid a 5/5 split for warlock in 5e as well so this might not be weird at all
Honestly using this progression and calling it Pact Magic so it is separate from spellcasting slots is probably the simplest fix. We get rid of Mystic Arcanum tax. Get more spell slots per day and don’t have to worry about short rest recharge. Invocation can go back down to 8. Where this concept gets weird is if you multiclass. A 5 warlock/ 5 Sorcerer would have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd pact magic slots and 4 1st, 3 2nd, and 2 3rd from spellcasting slots bringing you to a total of 6 1st, 5 2nd, and 4 3rd level slots that all literally work the same way. A normal single fullcaster or multiclass would have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th. This makes multiclassing a warlock much weaker since this version of pact magic is long rest recharge. The benefit to 5e version was you could potentially get 6+ 3rd level castings from pact magic so it didn’t feel as bad losing the higher level slots. Though most would avoid a 5/5 split for warlock in 5e as well so this might not be weird at all
so "pact magic" in name only? multiclassing spellcasters will always mingle spell slots like that and a different name for only warlocks to use wouldn't be that big a deal. might as well keep calling it spellcasting and rename the Mystic Arcanum as pact magic (plus let them up-cast).
Part of the issue is also how one looks at the term "hybrid spellcaster" - of which one can argue that there are 3 in the Player's Handbook, and a 4th released later. I'll look at the 3 from the Player's Handbook.
Please note that these are simplifications rather than deep dives into the class.
The Paladin is a HYBRID spellcaster, specifically a combination of warrior and cleric, with spells mostly augmenting the warrior aspect but allowing some support as a weaker cleric. Call abilities outside of spellcasting tend to reinforce this - Channel Divinity, Smite, adding Charisma to saves (making the Paladin the most durable class in the game aside from pure HP damage).
The Ranger is a HYBRID spellcaster, a combination of warrior, rogue, and druid, with spells again mostly augmenting the scouting and damage dealing aspects of the class, with some druid tricks thrown in. Class abilities are less like those of a druid, and fit more in line with what a rogue or a DPS focused warrior would go for.
The Bard, however, is a hybrid SPELLCASTER, with full casting progression but limited in spell access, designed towards being a social rogue with trickery and support magic, again with class abilities that reinforce this.
The Warlock is like the Bard, a hybrid SPELLCASTER, whose class abilities should reinforce what the class is built towards, which all depend on the Pact taken. Blade is a Gish type warrior, with more focus on magical supplements than an Eldritch Knight, but with a more warrior focus than a Bladesinger. Chain looks like a pet control class, and while it needs to familiar to be able to survive far better than it is able to now, would need to use class features to support that. And the Tome is like what College of Lore Bards are under 2014 rules, the version that leans the most into being as close to a full spellcaster as possible.
Which also present another option for Warlock spellcasting - more like the Bard, but with limits on what schools of magic may be used. They had a limited list to begin with.
Honestly using this progression and calling it Pact Magic so it is separate from spellcasting slots is probably the simplest fix. We get rid of Mystic Arcanum tax. Get more spell slots per day and don’t have to worry about short rest recharge. Invocation can go back down to 8. Where this concept gets weird is if you multiclass. A 5 warlock/ 5 Sorcerer would have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd pact magic slots and 4 1st, 3 2nd, and 2 3rd from spellcasting slots bringing you to a total of 6 1st, 5 2nd, and 4 3rd level slots that all literally work the same way. A normal single fullcaster or multiclass would have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th. This makes multiclassing a warlock much weaker since this version of pact magic is long rest recharge. The benefit to 5e version was you could potentially get 6+ 3rd level castings from pact magic so it didn’t feel as bad losing the higher level slots. Though most would avoid a 5/5 split for warlock in 5e as well so this might not be weird at all
so "pact magic" in name only? multiclassing spellcasters will always mingle spell slots like that and a different name for only warlocks to use wouldn't be that big a deal. might as well keep calling it spellcasting and rename the Mystic Arcanum as pact magic (plus let them up-cast).
Technically not in name only. It alters spell progression if you multiclass. Mainly I did this to fix the math issue. As of now the way they handle Spellcasting is in fractions of full casting progression. Aquil’s progression is full caster speed but with less total slots. This would make figuring out your spell slots when multiclassing a mess as there is no simple math equation for it. By calling it Pact magic it fixes that problem by separating your progressions. Under this system Mystic Arcanums are gone. You would just get a 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spell slot when you were suppose to. You would not get the additional 6th and 7th level slots other fullcasters get and you have will have about 6-7 less spells slots per day at high level play. This is accounted for by having EB and invocations.
Mystic Arcanum competing with invocations is an annoyance.
If they want Mystic Arcanum on a half caster chassis, then you should just get them automatically.
2nd level spell at 3rd level.
3rd level at 5th.
4th level at 7th.
5th level at 9th.
6th level at 11th.
7th level at 13th.
8th level at 15th.
9th level at 17th.
And not compete with invocations, because its a simple fact that if you have a choice between an invocation and a high level spell you will always take the higher level spell. It's an illusion of choice.
Meanwhile, my idea on creating invocations.
Invocations that provide a spell on demand should be limited to level 1 and 2 spells, with a 1 action cast (no reaction or bonus actions, so no shield or misty step). They cannot affect another unit, not to benefit or to harm. Even if they can target another character they can only be used on the caster. They cannot use materials with a cost.
From the Arcane list I think this would cover:
1 Comprehend Languages
1 Detect Magic
1 Disguise Self
1 False Life
1 Jump
1 Longstrider
1 Mage Armor
1 Silent Image
2 Alter Self
2 Darkvision
2 Enhance Ability (Tasha's)
2 Invisibility
2 Levitate
2 Locate Object
2 Nystal's Magic Aura
2 Spider Climb
Level 1 invocations can be taken from level 2 onwards. Level 2 invocations can be take from level 11 onwards. Some, like Enhance Ability, might be a bit strong for an "on demand" spell, but then it is level 11.
There's a lot I like here. I agree that invocations vs. Mystic Arcanum is largely a false choice. I also agree that invocation choice should be beefed up.
Some spells are a bit too strong to be at-will invocations. At-will Enhance Ability would let you dominate the social and exploration pillars. At-will Locate Object might be even worse - the players could brute-force the personal effects of anyone they might need to find, friend or foe. Several of these non-combat spells are balanced by the idea that you might still need combat resources available once you deal with the social or exploration challenge. The wrong invocations eradicate that tradeoff.
Honestly using this progression and calling it Pact Magic so it is separate from spellcasting slots is probably the simplest fix. We get rid of Mystic Arcanum tax. Get more spell slots per day and don’t have to worry about short rest recharge. Invocation can go back down to 8. Where this concept gets weird is if you multiclass. A 5 warlock/ 5 Sorcerer would have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd pact magic slots and 4 1st, 3 2nd, and 2 3rd from spellcasting slots bringing you to a total of 6 1st, 5 2nd, and 4 3rd level slots that all literally work the same way. A normal single fullcaster or multiclass would have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th. This makes multiclassing a warlock much weaker since this version of pact magic is long rest recharge. The benefit to 5e version was you could potentially get 6+ 3rd level castings from pact magic so it didn’t feel as bad losing the higher level slots. Though most would avoid a 5/5 split for warlock in 5e as well so this might not be weird at all
Short rest recharge is not a worry it is a boon. Look at the new druid, when revised will it maybe draw in more people overall sure it is possible but is that a good thing. It sounds good but if those people already had things they liked it offers a bit a variety which is already there with all the standard classes that work the same but it shoves away the people who had the niche appeal to the old wild shape.
We already have wizards/sorcerers/bards/clerics etc to cover the long rest pile of spells progression. But for the people who liked the short rest mechanic they now have nothing. You have a pool of 200 people 150 like the core casters, only 50 like the druid, you make changes now 100 only like the core classes 75 like core and new druid, but 25 like nothing in the game and leave. Was that good for the health of the game as people keep parroting.
The same will apply here, sure there are some warlock people who will like it but they already had tons of classes who acted like that and even these hybrids mostly act like that. But the people who like the short rest recharge, will have nothing, and why should they stay. The design team just said, your concerns don't matter to us. Sure paying attention to the majority is sometimes important, but listening to the minority also matters.
There's a lot I like here. I agree that invocations vs. Mystic Arcanum is largely a false choice. I also agree that invocation choice should be beefed up.
Some spells are a bit too strong to be at-will invocations. At-will Enhance Ability would let you dominate the social and exploration pillars. At-will Locate Object might be even worse - the players could brute-force the personal effects of anyone they might need to find, friend or foe. Several of these non-combat spells are balanced by the idea that you might still need combat resources available once you deal with the social or exploration challenge. The wrong invocations eradicate that tradeoff.
Ideally imo they would curate all spells and give them invocation tags. If there is no tag, there is no invocation for it, but the tag could represent either at will, once a day or 3 times a day. Something like EA/EJ/EM Eldritch adept is once a day, E Journeyman is 3 times a day, E master at will. If they wanted to be more complicated a spell might be all 3 but level gate EA1/EJ5/EM15.
But I like tags and things like that from 4e. Its organized and easy to use imo. Probably a pain to curate on their end though.
There's a lot I like here. I agree that invocations vs. Mystic Arcanum is largely a false choice. I also agree that invocation choice should be beefed up.
Some spells are a bit too strong to be at-will invocations. At-will Enhance Ability would let you dominate the social and exploration pillars. At-will Locate Object might be even worse - the players could brute-force the personal effects of anyone they might need to find, friend or foe. Several of these non-combat spells are balanced by the idea that you might still need combat resources available once you deal with the social or exploration challenge. The wrong invocations eradicate that tradeoff.
That is a good point.
I was also thinking that Mystic Arcanum should be treated as spells known, once you get slots high enough to cast them.
Once you get slots high enough, you should generally retrain the MA to a new one that you don't have slots for. My default pattern for MA would be
Level 5: take a level 3 MA
Level 7: take a level 4 MA
Level 9: retrain my level 3 MA to a level 5
Level 11: take a level 6 MA
Level 13: retrain my level 4 MA to a level 7
Level 15: take a level 8 MA
Level 17: retrain my level 5 MA to a level 9
I was thinking in terms of my suggested Mystic Arcanum which are gained automatically, and would be treated as an extra spell known once spell slots rise to meet them.
Honestly using this progression and calling it Pact Magic so it is separate from spellcasting slots is probably the simplest fix. We get rid of Mystic Arcanum tax. Get more spell slots per day and don’t have to worry about short rest recharge. Invocation can go back down to 8. Where this concept gets weird is if you multiclass. A 5 warlock/ 5 Sorcerer would have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd pact magic slots and 4 1st, 3 2nd, and 2 3rd from spellcasting slots bringing you to a total of 6 1st, 5 2nd, and 4 3rd level slots that all literally work the same way. A normal single fullcaster or multiclass would have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th. This makes multiclassing a warlock much weaker since this version of pact magic is long rest recharge. The benefit to 5e version was you could potentially get 6+ 3rd level castings from pact magic so it didn’t feel as bad losing the higher level slots. Though most would avoid a 5/5 split for warlock in 5e as well so this might not be weird at all
so "pact magic" in name only? multiclassing spellcasters will always mingle spell slots like that and a different name for only warlocks to use wouldn't be that big a deal. might as well keep calling it spellcasting and rename the Mystic Arcanum as pact magic (plus let them up-cast).
Technically not in name only. It alters spell progression if you multiclass. Mainly I did this to fix the math issue. As of now the way they handle Spellcasting is in fractions of full casting progression. Aquil’s progression is full caster speed but with less total slots. This would make figuring out your spell slots when multiclassing a mess as there is no simple math equation for it. By calling it Pact magic it fixes that problem by separating your progressions. Under this system Mystic Arcanums are gone. You would just get a 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spell slot when you were suppose to. You would not get the additional 6th and 7th level slots other fullcasters get and you have will have about 6-7 less spells slots per day at high level play. This is accounted for by having EB and invocations.
if i'm recalling the recent video correctly, WotC sounded happy with the duality of spell slots and MA slots. also, seems like people who've played this half-caster version don't dislike the changes. as such, i'm not sure why they would add MA as open spell slots or add MA spells to a warlock's "known spells" lists. they went in trying to increase spell casting and reduce spell hording. i haven't heard anything about playtesters feeling underpowered. this iteration of MA was intended to replace spell-like invocations and i figure if they're going to change something then that's what they'll take a second wack at (maybe with some at-will "lower arcanum" as gets around here occasionally).
...and for preference, i'd like some minor half a sentence of lore blurb in the MA description about them being specific powers gifted/stolen/etc from the patron rather than just leaving them as another number on my sheet. that's how you get people wondering if they're supposed to be spell slots.
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Once you get slots high enough, you should generally retrain the MA to a new one that you don't have slots for. My default pattern for MA would be
Level 5: take a level 3 MA
Level 7: take a level 4 MA
Level 9: retrain my level 3 MA to a level 5
Level 11: take a level 6 MA
Level 13: retrain my level 4 MA to a level 7
Level 15: take a level 8 MA
Level 17: retrain my level 5 MA to a level 9
I was thinking in terms of my suggested Mystic Arcanum which are gained automatically, and would be treated as an extra spell known once spell slots rise to meet them.
In terms of yours gaining it every level you might as well make it a full caster at that point, the difference in spell slots would be too small. Those that have suggested MA built in, but allowing to change keep a similar balance to now while giving access to spells at the levels full casters unlock them.
Ok so report from the playtest of a Chain Fey Warlock.
First the fortune teller that tapped into powers beyond this realm and accidentally made a deal with an otherworldly entity.... yep this works better here than it EVER has. I was able to take spells that used to not be on the Warlock list including Detect thoughts and Locate object both of which were great for the character concept. The Chain familiar primary use is still a flying invisible skill monkey that can do what ever you say from any where on the same plane of existence still works, it doesn't work great for combat but its other use is still fantastic.
I was playing in a group that was previously hostile to the Warlock, and my flavor mechanics instead of being met with "Gah no we are not taking a short rest because you just saved our characters hours by using a spell to help solve the mystery" to "Oooh that was cool and that was fun RP we need more of that".
This really does match what Jeremy said about perceived power vs actual power. My actual power is largely unchanged, but I don't have to beg a group that is hostile to short rests to stop to be able to achieve that actual power. No one is matching the theoretical power of Old warlock and Infinite 5th level spells through short rests. But the ability to cast a spell as utility, a spell in combat and still keep going without a rest keeps the narrative rolling at a satisfying pace.
Level 3 does still need Mystic arcanum 2nd level and probably another invocation to take it with. I am not convinced AB NEEDS to be rolled in any more, but I would still like it to be.
Hex needs help. I still propose giving it the bestow curse treatment. When Casting it as a 3rd level spell or higher it no longer costs concentration. Warlocks should be able to curse people, and Hex as a first level spell at level 9 may not be a great use of your concentration but it is still a pretty "free" use of a spell since first level slots are low value. using a higher level slot like 3 needs to be more valuable, and no concentration would get that there.
In addition, with this version of the warlock 3rd level hex is not available till level 9, the same level the Sorc, Wizard, and Cleric are all getting Bestow Curse 5, the non-concentration version. And level 17 is when Warlock gets the 24 hour no-concentration hex that I am suggesting and those same classes can get a 9th level permanent Bestow Curse. The other classes SHOULD NOT be better at cursing people than a warlock.
Bestow Curse has saving throw, that is something we always forget, Hex not.
And if the person fails that save they get a much worse effect then Hex as well. Warlocks should be able to curse people better than other classes in my opinion, and hex is the way to do that.
Bestow Curse has saving throw, that is something we always forget, Hex not.
And if the person fails that save they get a much worse effect then Hex as well. Warlocks should be able to curse people better than other classes in my opinion, and hex is the way to do that.
A Bestow Curse without saving throw is overpowered, no matter the POV used. The nature of a character is no enough excuse to grant all that power, if not it could be applied to many other classes.
Bestow Curse has saving throw, that is something we always forget, Hex not.
And if the person fails that save they get a much worse effect then Hex as well. Warlocks should be able to curse people better than other classes in my opinion, and hex is the way to do that.
A Bestow Curse without saving throw is overpowered, no matter the POV used. The nature of a character is no enough excuse to grant all that power, if not it could be applied to many other classes.
I am not suggesting Hex becomes bestow curse. Hex isn't bestow curse. I am suggesting hex doesn't use concentration when you cast it as a 3rd level spell or higher. Because it isn't worth the concentration OR the spell slot currently, removing the concentration would make it a decent use of the spell slot at least.
Bestow Curse has saving throw, that is something we always forget, Hex not.
And if the person fails that save they get a much worse effect then Hex as well. Warlocks should be able to curse people better than other classes in my opinion, and hex is the way to do that.
A Bestow Curse without saving throw is overpowered, no matter the POV used. The nature of a character is no enough excuse to grant all that power, if not it could be applied to many other classes.
I am not suggesting Hex becomes bestow curse. Hex isn't bestow curse. I am suggesting hex doesn't use concentration when you cast it as a 3rd level spell or higher. Because it isn't worth the concentration OR the spell slot currently, removing the concentration would make it a decent use of the spell slot at least.
OK I misunderstood, sorry.
Yes the concentration requirement issue is something not only for the Warlock. Some others class features like the Sorcery Incarnation requiring concentration is weird, as it competes at certain level with many necessary other things.
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Dramatically increasing the maximum number of Eldritch Invocations could reach to hardly balancing situations.
But would not be a bad idea to allow invocations to scale. So you get an invocation that grants you a base spell casting level (like the False Life one), getting it multiple times (when reaching the required level) you could upgrade the casting level.
Taking that idea and making most invocations to scale when acquired multiple times could work. So you would have the possibility to scale each invocation effect up to your liking (including the magic ones).
But then all invocations should be revised, as getting a nice advantage only paying one invocation (like devil's sight) would be unbalanced, so all should be scalable. I.e. the devil's sight could grant dark vision longer with each acquisition, and allowing to see in magical darkness with the last one.
The main problem with magic as invocations is the multi-class stuff.
Honestly using this progression and calling it Pact Magic so it is separate from spellcasting slots is probably the simplest fix. We get rid of Mystic Arcanum tax. Get more spell slots per day and don’t have to worry about short rest recharge. Invocation can go back down to 8.
Where this concept gets weird is if you multiclass. A 5 warlock/ 5 Sorcerer would have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd pact magic slots and 4 1st, 3 2nd, and 2 3rd from spellcasting slots bringing you to a total of 6 1st, 5 2nd, and 4 3rd level slots that all literally work the same way. A normal single fullcaster or multiclass would have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th. This makes multiclassing a warlock much weaker since this version of pact magic is long rest recharge. The benefit to 5e version was you could potentially get 6+ 3rd level castings from pact magic so it didn’t feel as bad losing the higher level slots. Though most would avoid a 5/5 split for warlock in 5e as well so this might not be weird at all
so "pact magic" in name only? multiclassing spellcasters will always mingle spell slots like that and a different name for only warlocks to use wouldn't be that big a deal. might as well keep calling it spellcasting and rename the Mystic Arcanum as pact magic (plus let them up-cast).
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
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Part of the issue is also how one looks at the term "hybrid spellcaster" - of which one can argue that there are 3 in the Player's Handbook, and a 4th released later. I'll look at the 3 from the Player's Handbook.
Please note that these are simplifications rather than deep dives into the class.
The Paladin is a HYBRID spellcaster, specifically a combination of warrior and cleric, with spells mostly augmenting the warrior aspect but allowing some support as a weaker cleric. Call abilities outside of spellcasting tend to reinforce this - Channel Divinity, Smite, adding Charisma to saves (making the Paladin the most durable class in the game aside from pure HP damage).
The Ranger is a HYBRID spellcaster, a combination of warrior, rogue, and druid, with spells again mostly augmenting the scouting and damage dealing aspects of the class, with some druid tricks thrown in. Class abilities are less like those of a druid, and fit more in line with what a rogue or a DPS focused warrior would go for.
The Bard, however, is a hybrid SPELLCASTER, with full casting progression but limited in spell access, designed towards being a social rogue with trickery and support magic, again with class abilities that reinforce this.
The Warlock is like the Bard, a hybrid SPELLCASTER, whose class abilities should reinforce what the class is built towards, which all depend on the Pact taken. Blade is a Gish type warrior, with more focus on magical supplements than an Eldritch Knight, but with a more warrior focus than a Bladesinger. Chain looks like a pet control class, and while it needs to familiar to be able to survive far better than it is able to now, would need to use class features to support that. And the Tome is like what College of Lore Bards are under 2014 rules, the version that leans the most into being as close to a full spellcaster as possible.
Which also present another option for Warlock spellcasting - more like the Bard, but with limits on what schools of magic may be used. They had a limited list to begin with.
Technically not in name only. It alters spell progression if you multiclass. Mainly I did this to fix the math issue. As of now the way they handle Spellcasting is in fractions of full casting progression. Aquil’s progression is full caster speed but with less total slots. This would make figuring out your spell slots when multiclassing a mess as there is no simple math equation for it. By calling it Pact magic it fixes that problem by separating your progressions. Under this system Mystic Arcanums are gone. You would just get a 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spell slot when you were suppose to. You would not get the additional 6th and 7th level slots other fullcasters get and you have will have about 6-7 less spells slots per day at high level play. This is accounted for by having EB and invocations.
There's a lot I like here. I agree that invocations vs. Mystic Arcanum is largely a false choice. I also agree that invocation choice should be beefed up.
Some spells are a bit too strong to be at-will invocations. At-will Enhance Ability would let you dominate the social and exploration pillars. At-will Locate Object might be even worse - the players could brute-force the personal effects of anyone they might need to find, friend or foe. Several of these non-combat spells are balanced by the idea that you might still need combat resources available once you deal with the social or exploration challenge. The wrong invocations eradicate that tradeoff.
Short rest recharge is not a worry it is a boon. Look at the new druid, when revised will it maybe draw in more people overall sure it is possible but is that a good thing. It sounds good but if those people already had things they liked it offers a bit a variety which is already there with all the standard classes that work the same but it shoves away the people who had the niche appeal to the old wild shape.
We already have wizards/sorcerers/bards/clerics etc to cover the long rest pile of spells progression. But for the people who liked the short rest mechanic they now have nothing. You have a pool of 200 people 150 like the core casters, only 50 like the druid, you make changes now 100 only like the core classes 75 like core and new druid, but 25 like nothing in the game and leave. Was that good for the health of the game as people keep parroting.
The same will apply here, sure there are some warlock people who will like it but they already had tons of classes who acted like that and even these hybrids mostly act like that. But the people who like the short rest recharge, will have nothing, and why should they stay. The design team just said, your concerns don't matter to us. Sure paying attention to the majority is sometimes important, but listening to the minority also matters.
Ideally imo they would curate all spells and give them invocation tags. If there is no tag, there is no invocation for it, but the tag could represent either at will, once a day or 3 times a day. Something like EA/EJ/EM Eldritch adept is once a day, E Journeyman is 3 times a day, E master at will. If they wanted to be more complicated a spell might be all 3 but level gate EA1/EJ5/EM15.
But I like tags and things like that from 4e. Its organized and easy to use imo. Probably a pain to curate on their end though.
That is a good point.
I was also thinking that Mystic Arcanum should be treated as spells known, once you get slots high enough to cast them.
Once you get slots high enough, you should generally retrain the MA to a new one that you don't have slots for. My default pattern for MA would be
I was thinking in terms of my suggested Mystic Arcanum which are gained automatically, and would be treated as an extra spell known once spell slots rise to meet them.
if i'm recalling the recent video correctly, WotC sounded happy with the duality of spell slots and MA slots. also, seems like people who've played this half-caster version don't dislike the changes. as such, i'm not sure why they would add MA as open spell slots or add MA spells to a warlock's "known spells" lists. they went in trying to increase spell casting and reduce spell hording. i haven't heard anything about playtesters feeling underpowered. this iteration of MA was intended to replace spell-like invocations and i figure if they're going to change something then that's what they'll take a second wack at (maybe with some at-will "lower arcanum" as gets around here occasionally).
...and for preference, i'd like some minor half a sentence of lore blurb in the MA description about them being specific powers gifted/stolen/etc from the patron rather than just leaving them as another number on my sheet. that's how you get people wondering if they're supposed to be spell slots.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
In terms of yours gaining it every level you might as well make it a full caster at that point, the difference in spell slots would be too small. Those that have suggested MA built in, but allowing to change keep a similar balance to now while giving access to spells at the levels full casters unlock them.
Ok so report from the playtest of a Chain Fey Warlock.
First the fortune teller that tapped into powers beyond this realm and accidentally made a deal with an otherworldly entity.... yep this works better here than it EVER has. I was able to take spells that used to not be on the Warlock list including Detect thoughts and Locate object both of which were great for the character concept. The Chain familiar primary use is still a flying invisible skill monkey that can do what ever you say from any where on the same plane of existence still works, it doesn't work great for combat but its other use is still fantastic.
I was playing in a group that was previously hostile to the Warlock, and my flavor mechanics instead of being met with "Gah no we are not taking a short rest because you just saved our characters hours by using a spell to help solve the mystery" to "Oooh that was cool and that was fun RP we need more of that".
This really does match what Jeremy said about perceived power vs actual power. My actual power is largely unchanged, but I don't have to beg a group that is hostile to short rests to stop to be able to achieve that actual power. No one is matching the theoretical power of Old warlock and Infinite 5th level spells through short rests. But the ability to cast a spell as utility, a spell in combat and still keep going without a rest keeps the narrative rolling at a satisfying pace.
Level 3 does still need Mystic arcanum 2nd level and probably another invocation to take it with. I am not convinced AB NEEDS to be rolled in any more, but I would still like it to be.
Hex needs help. I still propose giving it the bestow curse treatment. When Casting it as a 3rd level spell or higher it no longer costs concentration. Warlocks should be able to curse people, and Hex as a first level spell at level 9 may not be a great use of your concentration but it is still a pretty "free" use of a spell since first level slots are low value. using a higher level slot like 3 needs to be more valuable, and no concentration would get that there.
In addition, with this version of the warlock 3rd level hex is not available till level 9, the same level the Sorc, Wizard, and Cleric are all getting Bestow Curse 5, the non-concentration version. And level 17 is when Warlock gets the 24 hour no-concentration hex that I am suggesting and those same classes can get a 9th level permanent Bestow Curse. The other classes SHOULD NOT be better at cursing people than a warlock.
Bestow Curse has saving throw, that is something we always forget, Hex not.
And if the person fails that save they get a much worse effect then Hex as well. Warlocks should be able to curse people better than other classes in my opinion, and hex is the way to do that.
A Bestow Curse without saving throw is overpowered, no matter the POV used. The nature of a character is no enough excuse to grant all that power, if not it could be applied to many other classes.
I am not suggesting Hex becomes bestow curse. Hex isn't bestow curse. I am suggesting hex doesn't use concentration when you cast it as a 3rd level spell or higher. Because it isn't worth the concentration OR the spell slot currently, removing the concentration would make it a decent use of the spell slot at least.
My preference is to have the Hexer invocation make Hex not require concentration.
OK I misunderstood, sorry.
Yes the concentration requirement issue is something not only for the Warlock. Some others class features like the Sorcery Incarnation requiring concentration is weird, as it competes at certain level with many necessary other things.