Don’t be too quick to lump any dissent into “you hate change”. Personally I liked the Wildshape templates for druids right out of the gate. I just think they were poorly implemented. They lost the utility options that all but moon druids used and they didn’t quite have the combat effectiveness that moon druids needed.
Warlocks losing Pact Magic is a big change. I’m fine with it being a long rest recharge if there are options to compensate.
Many of us don’t hate change just because of change. We have opinions just like you and it’s fine if we disagree.
Anyway, this is a monk thread so let’s stick with monkish discussions.
When a person always protests against changes, it is because they do not want changes. Let's see if that simple you understand what I mean.
Regarding the monk, I repeat that at first I expected it to be the class that would undergo the most changes. But now I don't know what to expect.
I also don''t know what to expect now, but for a slightly different reason. I was expecting significant Warlock changes, but what they decided to change was almost completely different from my hopes. Same with Druids.
So, I've decided I have no idea what they are up to, as their goals seem quite different than what I had understood. I'm a little concerned as Zona (Lizardfolk Astral Monk) is one of my current favourites from my 5e roster, and I find something minor yet surprisingly important always gets lost when converting characters from one ruleset to another.
Don’t be too quick to lump any dissent into “you hate change”. Personally I liked the Wildshape templates for druids right out of the gate. I just think they were poorly implemented. They lost the utility options that all but moon druids used and they didn’t quite have the combat effectiveness that moon druids needed.
Warlocks losing Pact Magic is a big change. I’m fine with it being a long rest recharge if there are options to compensate.
Many of us don’t hate change just because of change. We have opinions just like you and it’s fine if we disagree.
Anyway, this is a monk thread so let’s stick with monkish discussions.
When a person always protests against changes, it is because they do not want changes. Let's see if that simple you understand what I mean.
Regarding the monk, I repeat that at first I expected it to be the class that would undergo the most changes. But now I don't know what to expect.
I also don''t know what to expect now, but for a slightly different reason. I was expecting significant Warlock changes, but what they decided to change was almost completely different from my hopes. Same with Druids.
So, I've decided I have no idea what they are up to, as their goals seem quite different than what I had understood. I'm a little concerned as Zona (Lizardfolk Astral Monk) is one of my current favourites from my 5e roster, and I find something minor yet surprisingly important always gets lost when converting characters from one ruleset to another.
Who knows. They might surprise us. Although I thought they were heading in the right direction with Mercy monk…and then came the Ascendant Dragon monk.
Something I have been wondering is if they are going to give added utility to being a strength based monk, ie using str or dex for the *unarmored* bonus but not both. Another idea would be giving a damage reduction from strength. Seems they are trying to make underused stats for some classes be more useful (looking at you warlock).
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Agree monks should take something from the strength. Maybe adding both DEX + STR bonus to unarmed attack and damage? As the monk unarmed attacks are treated as magical to bypass resistances, they don't get the bonus of a magical weapon, and cannot see many martial gloves the monk can use for that.
About the short rest, I am fine with it while limited. I.e. I have limited them to 2 short rests between long rests, and added a 10 minutes healing rest to roll hit dice (using the DMG cure wounds rules), that is the time required also for, after the combat, ritual casting detect magic, or cast prayer of healing, then decide after rolling the hit dice if casting it or not (saving the slot). The healing rests are not limited. Also this allows not to flush down the toilet the 1 hour effects (like false life) only because some want to heal their wounds.
Something I have been wondering is if they are going to give added utility to being a strength based monk, ie using str or dex for the *unarmored* bonus but not both. Another idea would be giving a damage reduction from strength. Seems they are trying to make underused stats for some classes be more useful (looking at you warlock).
Edited unarmed to unarmored
Im not expecting it, but I do think giving a monk player the option of using either Str or Dex as their primary stat would be a welcome addition. Would allow for some burly monk archetypes.
IIRC, from the Content Creators' Summit they were told that monks will likely only get the Simple Weapon masteries to start.
What I'm curious about is whether monks will be able to apply any properties to unarmed strikes!
Looking at the Simple Weapons UA table the monks have proficiency with weapons that have the Nick, Push (Greatclub, so doesn't qualify as a monk weapon, unless they change that), Sap, Slow, and Vex.
It would be nice if monks could apply any of those Weapon Masteries they have also to unarmed strikes. But I'm not holding my breath. It all comes down to how they handle the extra Martial Arts BA attack and Flurry of Blows.
My view is that weapon mastery on unarmed strikes is redundant for Monks, as the Martial Arts feature should be (or scale to become) mastery of unarmed strikes, so whatever that gives is what mastery of unarmed strikes looks like.
Personally I'm expecting/hoping for something like the following:
Unarmored Defence to allow Wisdom + either Strength or Dexterity, to open up the builds.
Martial Arts to allow Dexterity for grappling/shoving.
Unarmed strike damage starting at d6's, scaling a bit later but up to a higher total (maybe even to 1d12 or 2d6?).
Ki to become a long rest resource, maybe roughly double the Ki we have now but with partial recovery on short rest to come in early (earlier than Sorcerous Restoration).
Step of the Wind Disengage and single Dash to become free (no Ki cost), double Dash to still cost 1 Ki.
Deflect Missiles to become Deflect Attack? I tried this on my Kensei alternative and it's strong but not that OP (multiple attacks overwhelms it).
Weaker but more reliable alternative to Stunning Strike.
Stillness of Mind to become either a passive ability (advantage on saves against charmed or frightened) or more clarity about how/when you can use it if it remains an active ability, as currently it's either too strong, or highly situational (very dependent upon the effect).
Diamond Soul to possibly come in earlier, maybe split across two features (part of Purity of Body)?
Capstone possibly combining Empty Body and Perfect Self?
Some other things I'd like to see:
Move Open Hand Technique to a Monk class feature, sub-classes can supplement or add alternatives to this.
Replace Stunning Strike with a weaker ability that's more reliable, but maybe with some kind of escalating mechanic the more times you hit (and more Ki you spend), e.g- slowed to dazed to stunned. This could work by tracking the number of hits on a target, with effects either scaling by that number, or unlocking at higher numbers.
Add some alternatives to Stunning Strike so we can apply different effects targeting different saving throws, with the same kind of escalation mechanic. Basically give the Monk a bunch of built-in control options rather than trying to compete on being just another DPR class.
An example alternative might be something specifically opposed to casting, e.g- the number of hits becomes a penalty to the target's magic attacks, or a bonus to creatures' saves against the target's magic.
Ability Score Increase at 10th-level to help with MADness or let Monks pick up an extra feat for more build viability.
There's way more I'd change than just this, so these are just the highlights. 😂
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Im hoping for the monk to get a stronger identity, I dunno how many arguments Ive seen people have about what the monk is actually supposed to be good as, aside from moving fast.. Putting it more definitively as a damage dealer seems like the obvious choice.
Monks have one of the strongest identities in the game: highly thematic and based on a very particular warrior archetype.
And the rest of that statement is talking about role, not identity. I would agree that that their role is a little more muddy, but not that muddy: they're melee warriors, but finesse based (in the general sense of finesse, not the game sense), instead of being heavy meat shield based melee warriors. And again, it's because of their very strong identity forcing them to be, and fight like, characters from the movie "The Silent Flute"/"Circle of Iron" or the TV show "Kung Fu" ("Circle of Iron" being one of the main influences on the creation of the class). It forces them to be somewhere in between the role of a Rogue or the role of a Fighter.... but not in the same capacity as a Ranger.
I hope they finally separate unarmed damage progression from weapon damage. Bacause as it is right now, it's pointless to fight unarmed - weapons are always better because they can be magical, while fists can't.
Taken at face value, that statement is completely wrong. Monk's unarmed attacks become magical at around the time you're supposed to start seeing a lot of creatures that have resistance to non-magical attacks. A Monk's unarmed strikes becoming magical is baked right into the core rules for the class. It's not even a subclass thing. Though, making it happen SOONER might be worthwhile. Could even make it cost a ki point at 2nd level, to have magic unarmed strikes for 10m or an hour. Then it becomes free at the same time that the rules currently say so. That way it doesn't significantly change the existing rules for the class, but makes it available as an option sooner, if your campaign is unusual about the need for it.
If you're talking about special effects, like a flamebrand sword, or crystal dragon spine sword, that does extra energy damage ... still not quite true (but you do need to import something from 3e: monk's fist-wraps: bands of cloth that you wrap around your hands, which can be enchanted like weapons but work with the Monk's unarmed strikes -- there's nothing special about importing them from 3d into 5e, as it would just involve giving them the special property you want them to have, just like you can do with any other 5e magic weapon's properties). There's at least one tattoo in 5e that also gives a Monk's unarmed strikes some special properties.
If you're talking about LEGENDARY weapon type special effects with extensive special abilities stacked on to a weapon ... sort of true, but only if the DM lacks imagination. Because the same thing I said about the fist wraps and tattoo can be applied here: a legendary tattoo that grants some special properties to the Monk's unarmed strikes. Probably not Vorpal (hard to think of a fist cutting off a head ... though that's probably been done in some wuxia movie somewhere), but several other options could definitely work.
I hope they finally separate unarmed damage progression from weapon damage. Bacause as it is right now, it's pointless to fight unarmed - weapons are always better because they can be magical, while fists can't.
Taken at face value, that statement is completely wrong. Monk's unarmed attacks become magical at around the time you're supposed to start seeing a lot of creatures that have resistance to non-magical attacks. A Monk's unarmed strikes becoming magical is baked right into the core rules for the class. It's not even a subclass thing. Though, making it happen SOONER might be worthwhile. Could even make it cost a ki point at 2nd level, to have magic unarmed strikes for 10m or an hour. Then it becomes free at the same time that the rules currently say so. That way it doesn't significantly change the existing rules for the class, but makes it available as an option sooner, if your campaign is unusual about the need for it.
If you're talking about special effects, like a flamebrand sword, or crystal dragon spine sword, that does extra energy damage ... still not quite true (but you do need to import something from 3e: monk's fist-wraps: bands of cloth that you wrap around your hands, which can be enchanted like weapons but work with the Monk's unarmed strikes -- there's nothing special about importing them from 3d into 5e, as it would just involve giving them the special property you want them to have, just like you can do with any other 5e magic weapon's properties). There's at least one tattoo in 5e that also gives a Monk's unarmed strikes some special properties.
If you're talking about LEGENDARY weapon type special effects with extensive special abilities stacked on to a weapon ... sort of true, but only if the DM lacks imagination. Because the same thing I said about the fist wraps and tattoo can be applied here: a legendary tattoo that grants some special properties to the Monk's unarmed strikes. Probably not Vorpal (hard to think of a fist cutting off a head ... though that's probably been done in some wuxia movie somewhere), but several other options could definitely work.
I think they’re talking about the just boring, baseline +1 to hit and damage. Even after you have magic fists, you’re better off with a +1 short sword than those magic fists. I believe is the point.
The real equalizer there, btw, is not a 3e item, but the eldritch claw tattoo, which give you that +1, and some extra reach. Of course, there’s nothing, RAW to get them to a +2.
I hope they finally separate unarmed damage progression from weapon damage. Bacause as it is right now, it's pointless to fight unarmed - weapons are always better because they can be magical, while fists can't.
Taken at face value, that statement is completely wrong. Monk's unarmed attacks become magical at around the time you're supposed to start seeing a lot of creatures that have resistance to non-magical attacks. A Monk's unarmed strikes becoming magical is baked right into the core rules for the class. It's not even a subclass thing. Though, making it happen SOONER might be worthwhile. Could even make it cost a ki point at 2nd level, to have magic unarmed strikes for 10m or an hour. Then it becomes free at the same time that the rules currently say so. That way it doesn't significantly change the existing rules for the class, but makes it available as an option sooner, if your campaign is unusual about the need for it.
If you're talking about special effects, like a flamebrand sword, or crystal dragon spine sword, that does extra energy damage ... still not quite true (but you do need to import something from 3e: monk's fist-wraps: bands of cloth that you wrap around your hands, which can be enchanted like weapons but work with the Monk's unarmed strikes -- there's nothing special about importing them from 3d into 5e, as it would just involve giving them the special property you want them to have, just like you can do with any other 5e magic weapon's properties). There's at least one tattoo in 5e that also gives a Monk's unarmed strikes some special properties.
If you're talking about LEGENDARY weapon type special effects with extensive special abilities stacked on to a weapon ... sort of true, but only if the DM lacks imagination. Because the same thing I said about the fist wraps and tattoo can be applied here: a legendary tattoo that grants some special properties to the Monk's unarmed strikes. Probably not Vorpal (hard to think of a fist cutting off a head ... though that's probably been done in some wuxia movie somewhere), but several other options could definitely work.
I think they’re talking about the just boring, baseline +1 to hit and damage. Even after you have magic fists, you’re better off with a +1 short sword than those magic fists. I believe is the point.
The real equalizer there, btw, is not a 3e item, but the eldritch claw tattoo, which give you that +1, and some extra reach. Of course, there’s nothing, RAW to get them to a +2.
That's the tattoo I was indirectly referencing. And while they might not have enumerated a +1 Unarmed Strikes Tattoo, you could easily use the existing rules that allow changing the underlying weapon type of a magic weapon to a different underlying weapon ... to instead change it to a monk tattoo. They are, effectively, the same thing: a magic item that deals with attacks. And while the specific tattoo might not be enumerated in RAW, that type of magic weapon adaptation IS in RAW.
Further, it might not be strictly RAW in 5e, but the Gauntlets of Flaming Fury could easily be used as a justification for the same thing (but in 5e would require a small, but entirely reasonable, rule extension to allow it to work with Unarmed Strikes). Arguably, with the way OneD&D rules are already unifying Unarmed & Melee-Weapon attacks, it wouldn't be a stretch at all to include that in the OneD&D version of Gauntlets of Flaming Fury: Gauntlets of Flaming Fury become usable with Unarmed Strikes. The existing rule for changing a weapon type in an existing magic weapon description could also apply to a "frostbrand" becoming a Gauntlet (instead of a sword) like the Gauntlets of Flaming Fury. Or any other weapon-enchantment type (from a simple +1, or a type of creature slaying, etc.).
Last: Monks can get +1, or even more, via Ki. The downside is that it doesn't last, not even for a full minute. Making it into a 1m, 10m, or hour long effect would probably be better... but the point is: yes, not only can they become magical, they can already become magically-bonused as well. That's in RAW already (it's one of Tasha's options for the Monk, IIRC).
As long as OneD&D continues to double-down on things that can be applied to Melee Weapons also being applied to Unarmed Strikes (and hopefully Natural Weapons, as well), then I think it's a non-issue with OneD&D. Tattoos and Gauntlets that are a variation of the Gauntlets of Flaming Fury, combined with the existing rules for adapting weapon enchantments to other items, means that even Monks can have these things. Combine that with applying the Monk's +X bonus via ki to being a longer lasting effect, and I think it's on the right path.
a- get rid of the Four Elements Monk, except for their "Elemental Attunement" ability, which should become a cantrip for the Arcane and Primal lists, and certain Cleric domains. (for those who really want a "four elements monk" -- the Ascendant Dragon is already a better Four Elements Monk than the Four Elements Monk).
b- replace the Four Elements Monk with an adaptation of the Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster (1/3 caster) that is somehow focused on elemental spells. And uses the Bladesinger's "replace 1 of your extra attacks with a cantrip" version of Extra Attack. It should probably be Primal spell based (but I could also see versions of it that do Arcane or even Divine spells -- maybe pick one of the three; though, allowing this caster to have access to a cantrip like Green Flame Blade is probably also very useful and desirable). I think allowing a Monk to express their metaphysical side with spells is more Monk-like than allowing that for the EK and AT (not that I want to get rid of the EK and AT ... other than changing the EK's name to Arcane Knight, and giving them standard options for Primal Knight and Divine Knight; I'm just saying it's at least, if not more, thematically appropriate for the Monk to have that kind of subclass).
c- replace Focused Aim with either "spend ki points to get a magical +1/ki point to both attack and damage for 1 minute, and maximum benefit scaled by level (you can spend 1 ki point at 6th level, 2 at 12th, 3 at 18th?). That's in addition to the "Ki empowered strikes", not instead of.
d- Absolutely double down and make it explicit that mechanics that can enhance Melee Weapons can also be used to enhance Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
e- And expand the tattoo options to make it more explicit that weapon and protection magic items can be adapted to tattoos. (though, I think the Barrier Tattoo already covers armor).
f- the only change I would make to the Ascendant Dragon (and probably also to the Dragon Sorcerer) is to make them eligible for Dragonborn lineage Feats, even though they don't have to be Dragonborn. And I would put the Ascendant Dragon tradition in the PHB (in place of the Four Elements Monk, as I noted above).
g- some means of adapting Weapon Mastery to Unarmed Strikes.
An example alternative might be something specifically opposed to casting, e.g- the number of hits becomes a penalty to the target's magic attacks, or a bonus to allies saves against them.
Do you mean to control or deplete the opponent's energy (Not just manage ours in the form of Ki/spirit points.), and that this affects more spellcasters or similar?
For example:
Once per round, while making an unarmed attack on a creature, you can spend 2 Ki points, thus allowing you to manipulate and drain the creature's energy. You make an opposed roll using your dexterity (Sleight of Hand) against a Constitution check, the latter with advantage if your opponent is a monk and still has Ki points.
If you win the confrontation you gain a hit dice and the opponent loses two, additionally if your opponent has Ki points, sorcery points OR unspent spell slots, he loses one of these at random (If it is a spell slot he loses one of the level that has more unconsumed spaces available.) .
If you lose the matchup, your opponent only loses one hit die.
If the opponent does NOT have enough hit dice, they instead gain one level of exhaustion per missing hit dice.
And maybe From level X you can spend an additional Ki point, to increase all effects by 1 in case you win the confrontation. (Recovery and drainage)
Oh, one other change I would make to the Ascendant Dragon (and Dragon Sorcerer): Gem breath weapon options. It's semi-trivial, except that it's never an option listed in character builder software (like right here in D&DB). I can see treating them with some caution, though. Maybe an actual optional rule (as opposed to just adding them to the list in the base subclass), like the optional rules that have to be selected from Tasha's Cauldron. That would allow DM's to more easily say "you can/can't use that optional rule" without having to seem like they're modifying the base subclass ability itself.
Do you mean to control or deplete the opponent's energy (Not just manage ours in the form of Ki/spirit points.), and that this affects more spellcasters or similar?
Kind of, though I was thinking of something a bit more basic, but built on the idea of an "escalating" effect. For example:
Exposure
Some Monk abilities refer to exposure. Each time you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack it gains one point of exposure to your future attacks, lasting 1 minute or until you attack another creature.
Stunning Strikes
After hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you may spend one Ki plus one or more points of exposure to perform a Stunning Strike, forcing it to make a Constitution saving throw against your Ki save DC or suffer the effect below:
1+ exposure: The creature is slowed.
3+ exposure: The creature is dazed.
7+ exposure: The creature is stunned.
Disrupting Strikes
After hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you may spend One Ki to inflict the following effects until the start of your next turn:
The target suffers a penalty to its magic attacks equal to its current exposure.
If the target uses a magic ability that forces creature(s) to make a saving throw, the creature(s) have a bonus to the saving throw equal to the target's current exposure.
Hopefully this gives an idea of what I was thinking. I like your suggestion though, it just might be a little on the complex side (but then so might mine, I'm definitely biased, heh).
Basically the idea is the more you hit a target the more powerful an effect you can deliver. An alternative for disrupting strikes could be something like forcing the target to make a saving throw before it casts a spell, with the DC being 8 + the current exposure, on a failure the spell fails?
I'm not wedded to the name "exposure"; the idea is inspired by a similar mechanic from Grim Hollow's Way of the Leaden Crown psionic monk (which I really like, they have some really nice sub-classes), they call them pressure points.
Update: I should note that none of the above is intended as a finished rule, it's entirely unplaytested and probably requires tweaking of charges, saving throws and how and when exposures is spent (e.g- the Disrupting Strikes should perhaps spend at least some exposure to limit the maximum). I just wanted to give an idea of what I'm thinking would be a cool mechanic for Monk special abilities to be based on.
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I'm probably rambling at this point, but ... here's my idea for the alternative to the Way of Four Elements Monk, as a regular 1/3 spell caster:
Let's call it the "Way of the Primal Path".As per the Eldritch Knight, except:
3rd Level: Casting Spells: You use Wisdom as your Spell casting ability. Further, you may use Druidic spell casting focuses, and may attune magic items that specifically are usable as spell casting focuses as if you were a Druid or Ranger.But you do not otherwise qualify as a Druid or Ranger (via this class) for attuning to other magic items. Use the same table that the Eldritch Knight uses for cantrips known, spells known, and spell slots available.Use the same method for determining multi class spell slots (divine Monk levels by 3).
3rd Level: Any spell or cantrip you learn that can be used to enhance a melee weapon, without specifying specific melee weapons, can be used with your unarmed strikes even if the spell does not explicitly say so. So, Elemental Weapon qualifies, but Shillelagh does not.
3rd Level: Learning Primal Cantrips:One of your two Cantrips must be "Elemental Attunement" (the similarly named ability of the Way of the Four Elements monk, but redone as a cantrip). The other Cantrip can be any Primal Cantrip.
3rd Level: Learning Primal Spells: Two of your three 1st-Level Spells acquired at third level must satisfy at least one of the following four requirements:
It involves Elemental aspects, such as Create or Destroy Water; OR
it involves energy damage (of the types acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder), such as Thunderwave or Detect Poison and Disease; OR
it has a range of Self; OR
it has a range of Touch, if it is for the purpose of targeting a weapon.
After 3rd Level, these restrictions on learning spells apply to all leveled spells you learn via this Subclass, except the ones you learn at 8th, 14th, and 20th levels, or spells you explicitly learn via this subclass's features.
(you do not get the Eldritch Knight "Bonded Weapon" ability)
6th Level: You learn the ability to use the Metamagic methods "Transmute Spell" and "Quicken Spell" via Ki/Spirit points instead of Sorcery Points.This does not allow/imply using ki/spriit points for other Metamagic abilities you might know, nor the ability to use ki/spirit points for Metamagic on spells you have learned via multi classing to other classes.
At 10th Level, you learn the Misty Step spell.This does not count against your number of spells known.
At 14th Level, you learn the Fly spell. This does not count against your number of spells known.
The Arcane variant is the same, but uses the Arcane spell list, and Arcane spell focuses attuneable by Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks. (maybe change the spells gained at 10th and/or 14th level?)
The Divine variant is the same, but uses the Divine spell list, and Divine spell focuses attuneableby Clerics and Paladins. (change the spell requirements to instead be based around a Cleric Domain?)
Do you mean to control or deplete the opponent's energy (Not just manage ours in the form of Ki/spirit points.), and that this affects more spellcasters or similar?
Kind of, though I was thinking of something a bit more basic, but built on the idea of an "escalating" effect. For example:
Exposure
Some Monk abilities refer to exposure. Each time you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack it gains one point of exposure to your future attacks, lasting 1 minute or until you attack another creature.
Stunning Strikes
After hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you may spend one Ki plus one or more points of exposure to perform a Stunning Strike, forcing it to make a Constitution saving throw against your Ki save DC or suffer the effect below:
1+ exposure: The creature is slowed.
3+ exposure: The creature is dazed.
7+ exposure: The creature is stunned.
Disrupting Strikes
After hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you may spend One Ki to inflict the following effects until the start of your next turn:
The target suffers a penalty to its magic attacks equal to its current exposure.
If the target uses a magic ability that forces creature(s) to make a saving throw, the creature(s) have a bonus to the saving throw equal to the target's current exposure.
Hopefully this gives an idea of what I was thinking. I like your suggestion though, it just might be a little on the complex side (but then so might mine, I'm definitely biased, heh).
Basically the idea is the more you hit a target the more powerful an effect you can deliver. An alternative for disrupting strikes could be something like forcing the target to make a saving throw before it casts a spell, with the DC being 8 + the current exposure, on a failure the spell fails?
I'm not wedded to the name "exposure"; the idea is inspired by a similar mechanic from Grim Hollow's Way of the Leaden Crown psionic monk (which I really like, they have some really nice sub-classes), they call them pressure points.
Ohhhhh, I understand, I like it a lot, I don't know if 7 will be very restrictive, although with the amount of hits the monk seems to be fine at 7, obviously it would be for somewhat resistant bosses or adversaries, and accompanied, because otherwise they hardly know I could take advantage of it (Since it will have to resist more than 3 rounds or rather apply the minor effects, I love it.)
Now, mine yes, it was more complicated, and more specific, yours seems better to me, it would affect all magical activity, whether or not it had spaces, such as abilities that use every X turns, perhaps more delayed due to having to wait to load the enough exposures.
Maybe you should have a maximum magic penalty or add every two exposures (every 3 penalizes 2 points.), why else, for example, against a boss, you can calmly try to cause a penalty of more than 10 so that your magic almost no use
Perhaps instead of it being just magic or a state, replace the 1st or add, an effect that affects everyone, every two or three exposures 1 exhaustion, this if I remember correctly is a penalty TO ALL according to exhaustion. magic, hits, saves, stat tests, etc....
3rd Level: Casting Spells: You use Wisdom as your Spell casting ability. Further, you may use Druidic spell casting focuses, and may attune magic items that specifically are usable as spell casting focuses as if you were a Druid or Ranger.But you do not otherwise qualify as a Druid or Ranger (via this class) for attuning to other magic items. Use the same table that the Eldritch Knight uses for cantrips known, spells known, and spell slots available.Use the same method for determining multi class spell slots (divine Monk levels by 3).
I would prefer that the monk, as a special trait of his spells, does not have to have his hands full for the material components, so his spells ignore these, although as against he cannot select those that require components with cost or consumables, and be 1 /4 or 1/3 spellcaster.
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I also don''t know what to expect now, but for a slightly different reason. I was expecting significant Warlock changes, but what they decided to change was almost completely different from my hopes. Same with Druids.
So, I've decided I have no idea what they are up to, as their goals seem quite different than what I had understood. I'm a little concerned as Zona (Lizardfolk Astral Monk) is one of my current favourites from my 5e roster, and I find something minor yet surprisingly important always gets lost when converting characters from one ruleset to another.
Who knows. They might surprise us. Although I thought they were heading in the right direction with Mercy monk…and then came the Ascendant Dragon monk.
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Something I have been wondering is if they are going to give added utility to being a strength based monk, ie using str or dex for the *unarmored* bonus but not both. Another idea would be giving a damage reduction from strength. Seems they are trying to make underused stats for some classes be more useful (looking at you warlock).
Edited unarmed to unarmored
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Agree monks should take something from the strength. Maybe adding both DEX + STR bonus to unarmed attack and damage? As the monk unarmed attacks are treated as magical to bypass resistances, they don't get the bonus of a magical weapon, and cannot see many martial gloves the monk can use for that.
About the short rest, I am fine with it while limited. I.e. I have limited them to 2 short rests between long rests, and added a 10 minutes healing rest to roll hit dice (using the DMG cure wounds rules), that is the time required also for, after the combat, ritual casting detect magic, or cast prayer of healing, then decide after rolling the hit dice if casting it or not (saving the slot). The healing rests are not limited. Also this allows not to flush down the toilet the 1 hour effects (like false life) only because some want to heal their wounds.
Im not expecting it, but I do think giving a monk player the option of using either Str or Dex as their primary stat would be a welcome addition. Would allow for some burly monk archetypes.
how will monks interact with weapon masteries?
We’ll find out, hopefully in a few weeks.
IIRC, from the Content Creators' Summit they were told that monks will likely only get the Simple Weapon masteries to start.
What I'm curious about is whether monks will be able to apply any properties to unarmed strikes!
Looking at the Simple Weapons UA table the monks have proficiency with weapons that have the Nick, Push (Greatclub, so doesn't qualify as a monk weapon, unless they change that), Sap, Slow, and Vex.
It would be nice if monks could apply any of those Weapon Masteries they have also to unarmed strikes. But I'm not holding my breath. It all comes down to how they handle the extra Martial Arts BA attack and Flurry of Blows.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
My view is that weapon mastery on unarmed strikes is redundant for Monks, as the Martial Arts feature should be (or scale to become) mastery of unarmed strikes, so whatever that gives is what mastery of unarmed strikes looks like.
Personally I'm expecting/hoping for something like the following:
Some other things I'd like to see:
There's way more I'd change than just this, so these are just the highlights. 😂
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Monks have one of the strongest identities in the game: highly thematic and based on a very particular warrior archetype.
And the rest of that statement is talking about role, not identity. I would agree that that their role is a little more muddy, but not that muddy: they're melee warriors, but finesse based (in the general sense of finesse, not the game sense), instead of being heavy meat shield based melee warriors. And again, it's because of their very strong identity forcing them to be, and fight like, characters from the movie "The Silent Flute"/"Circle of Iron" or the TV show "Kung Fu" ("Circle of Iron" being one of the main influences on the creation of the class). It forces them to be somewhere in between the role of a Rogue or the role of a Fighter.... but not in the same capacity as a Ranger.
Taken at face value, that statement is completely wrong. Monk's unarmed attacks become magical at around the time you're supposed to start seeing a lot of creatures that have resistance to non-magical attacks. A Monk's unarmed strikes becoming magical is baked right into the core rules for the class. It's not even a subclass thing. Though, making it happen SOONER might be worthwhile. Could even make it cost a ki point at 2nd level, to have magic unarmed strikes for 10m or an hour. Then it becomes free at the same time that the rules currently say so. That way it doesn't significantly change the existing rules for the class, but makes it available as an option sooner, if your campaign is unusual about the need for it.
If you're talking about special effects, like a flamebrand sword, or crystal dragon spine sword, that does extra energy damage ... still not quite true (but you do need to import something from 3e: monk's fist-wraps: bands of cloth that you wrap around your hands, which can be enchanted like weapons but work with the Monk's unarmed strikes -- there's nothing special about importing them from 3d into 5e, as it would just involve giving them the special property you want them to have, just like you can do with any other 5e magic weapon's properties). There's at least one tattoo in 5e that also gives a Monk's unarmed strikes some special properties.
If you're talking about LEGENDARY weapon type special effects with extensive special abilities stacked on to a weapon ... sort of true, but only if the DM lacks imagination. Because the same thing I said about the fist wraps and tattoo can be applied here: a legendary tattoo that grants some special properties to the Monk's unarmed strikes. Probably not Vorpal (hard to think of a fist cutting off a head ... though that's probably been done in some wuxia movie somewhere), but several other options could definitely work.
I think they’re talking about the just boring, baseline +1 to hit and damage. Even after you have magic fists, you’re better off with a +1 short sword than those magic fists. I believe is the point.
The real equalizer there, btw, is not a 3e item, but the eldritch claw tattoo, which give you that +1, and some extra reach. Of course, there’s nothing, RAW to get them to a +2.
That's the tattoo I was indirectly referencing. And while they might not have enumerated a +1 Unarmed Strikes Tattoo, you could easily use the existing rules that allow changing the underlying weapon type of a magic weapon to a different underlying weapon ... to instead change it to a monk tattoo. They are, effectively, the same thing: a magic item that deals with attacks. And while the specific tattoo might not be enumerated in RAW, that type of magic weapon adaptation IS in RAW.
Further, it might not be strictly RAW in 5e, but the Gauntlets of Flaming Fury could easily be used as a justification for the same thing (but in 5e would require a small, but entirely reasonable, rule extension to allow it to work with Unarmed Strikes). Arguably, with the way OneD&D rules are already unifying Unarmed & Melee-Weapon attacks, it wouldn't be a stretch at all to include that in the OneD&D version of Gauntlets of Flaming Fury: Gauntlets of Flaming Fury become usable with Unarmed Strikes. The existing rule for changing a weapon type in an existing magic weapon description could also apply to a "frostbrand" becoming a Gauntlet (instead of a sword) like the Gauntlets of Flaming Fury. Or any other weapon-enchantment type (from a simple +1, or a type of creature slaying, etc.).
Last: Monks can get +1, or even more, via Ki. The downside is that it doesn't last, not even for a full minute. Making it into a 1m, 10m, or hour long effect would probably be better... but the point is: yes, not only can they become magical, they can already become magically-bonused as well. That's in RAW already (it's one of Tasha's options for the Monk, IIRC).
As long as OneD&D continues to double-down on things that can be applied to Melee Weapons also being applied to Unarmed Strikes (and hopefully Natural Weapons, as well), then I think it's a non-issue with OneD&D. Tattoos and Gauntlets that are a variation of the Gauntlets of Flaming Fury, combined with the existing rules for adapting weapon enchantments to other items, means that even Monks can have these things. Combine that with applying the Monk's +X bonus via ki to being a longer lasting effect, and I think it's on the right path.
Things I would want to see in the OneD&D Monk:
a- get rid of the Four Elements Monk, except for their "Elemental Attunement" ability, which should become a cantrip for the Arcane and Primal lists, and certain Cleric domains. (for those who really want a "four elements monk" -- the Ascendant Dragon is already a better Four Elements Monk than the Four Elements Monk).
b- replace the Four Elements Monk with an adaptation of the Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster (1/3 caster) that is somehow focused on elemental spells. And uses the Bladesinger's "replace 1 of your extra attacks with a cantrip" version of Extra Attack. It should probably be Primal spell based (but I could also see versions of it that do Arcane or even Divine spells -- maybe pick one of the three; though, allowing this caster to have access to a cantrip like Green Flame Blade is probably also very useful and desirable). I think allowing a Monk to express their metaphysical side with spells is more Monk-like than allowing that for the EK and AT (not that I want to get rid of the EK and AT ... other than changing the EK's name to Arcane Knight, and giving them standard options for Primal Knight and Divine Knight; I'm just saying it's at least, if not more, thematically appropriate for the Monk to have that kind of subclass).
c- replace Focused Aim with either "spend ki points to get a magical +1/ki point to both attack and damage for 1 minute, and maximum benefit scaled by level (you can spend 1 ki point at 6th level, 2 at 12th, 3 at 18th?). That's in addition to the "Ki empowered strikes", not instead of.
d- Absolutely double down and make it explicit that mechanics that can enhance Melee Weapons can also be used to enhance Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
e- And expand the tattoo options to make it more explicit that weapon and protection magic items can be adapted to tattoos. (though, I think the Barrier Tattoo already covers armor).
f- the only change I would make to the Ascendant Dragon (and probably also to the Dragon Sorcerer) is to make them eligible for Dragonborn lineage Feats, even though they don't have to be Dragonborn. And I would put the Ascendant Dragon tradition in the PHB (in place of the Four Elements Monk, as I noted above).
g- some means of adapting Weapon Mastery to Unarmed Strikes.
Do you mean to control or deplete the opponent's energy (Not just manage ours in the form of Ki/spirit points.), and that this affects more spellcasters or similar?
For example:
And maybe From level X you can spend an additional Ki point, to increase all effects by 1 in case you win the confrontation. (Recovery and drainage)P.S. I like your list.
Oh, one other change I would make to the Ascendant Dragon (and Dragon Sorcerer): Gem breath weapon options. It's semi-trivial, except that it's never an option listed in character builder software (like right here in D&DB). I can see treating them with some caution, though. Maybe an actual optional rule (as opposed to just adding them to the list in the base subclass), like the optional rules that have to be selected from Tasha's Cauldron. That would allow DM's to more easily say "you can/can't use that optional rule" without having to seem like they're modifying the base subclass ability itself.
Kind of, though I was thinking of something a bit more basic, but built on the idea of an "escalating" effect. For example:
Hopefully this gives an idea of what I was thinking. I like your suggestion though, it just might be a little on the complex side (but then so might mine, I'm definitely biased, heh).
Basically the idea is the more you hit a target the more powerful an effect you can deliver. An alternative for disrupting strikes could be something like forcing the target to make a saving throw before it casts a spell, with the DC being 8 + the current exposure, on a failure the spell fails?
I'm not wedded to the name "exposure"; the idea is inspired by a similar mechanic from Grim Hollow's Way of the Leaden Crown psionic monk (which I really like, they have some really nice sub-classes), they call them pressure points.
Update: I should note that none of the above is intended as a finished rule, it's entirely unplaytested and probably requires tweaking of charges, saving throws and how and when exposures is spent (e.g- the Disrupting Strikes should perhaps spend at least some exposure to limit the maximum). I just wanted to give an idea of what I'm thinking would be a cool mechanic for Monk special abilities to be based on.
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I'm probably rambling at this point, but ... here's my idea for the alternative to the Way of Four Elements Monk, as a regular 1/3 spell caster:
Let's call it the "Way of the Primal Path". As per the Eldritch Knight, except:
The Arcane variant is the same, but uses the Arcane spell list, and Arcane spell focuses attuneable by Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks. (maybe change the spells gained at 10th and/or 14th level?)
The Divine variant is the same, but uses the Divine spell list, and Divine spell focuses attuneable by Clerics and Paladins. (change the spell requirements to instead be based around a Cleric Domain?)
Ohhhhh, I understand, I like it a lot, I don't know if 7 will be very restrictive, although with the amount of hits the monk seems to be fine at 7, obviously it would be for somewhat resistant bosses or adversaries, and accompanied, because otherwise they hardly know I could take advantage of it (Since it will have to resist more than 3 rounds or rather apply the minor effects, I love it.)
Now, mine yes, it was more complicated, and more specific, yours seems better to me, it would affect all magical activity, whether or not it had spaces, such as abilities that use every X turns, perhaps more delayed due to having to wait to load the enough exposures.
Maybe you should have a maximum magic penalty or add every two exposures (every 3 penalizes 2 points.), why else, for example, against a boss, you can calmly try to cause a penalty of more than 10 so that your magic almost no use
Perhaps instead of it being just magic or a state, replace the 1st or add, an effect that affects everyone, every two or three exposures 1 exhaustion, this if I remember correctly is a penalty TO ALL according to exhaustion. magic, hits, saves, stat tests, etc....
I would prefer that the monk, as a special trait of his spells, does not have to have his hands full for the material components, so his spells ignore these, although as against he cannot select those that require components with cost or consumables, and be 1 /4 or 1/3 spellcaster.