I thought of a question about how these two features would interact with an action surge. If I was holding Dagger A and Dagger B. My question is Regarding the once per turn restriction on Nick, and how Weapon Properties are applied.
I would be a second level fighter. I'll also take the two weapon fighting Fighting Style.
I take the attack action and Attack with Dagger A. I use the Nick property of Dagger B.
If I then action surge and take the attack action, but this time I attack with Dagger B. Could I use the Nick property Dagger A possesses? Or is it not possible because I had already used the Nick property of Dagger B.
Well, it seems pretty clear that the intent is that you can only do the light property extra attack once per turn. Right now I don't know how wording is, and maybe they should explain it better. But I'm sure that's the intention.
I don't think you can make this extra attack twice even with action surge. Due to the wording of nick and referencing the extra attack.
The light property allows you to make an extra attack using a bonus action. Nick allows you to instead make it apart of your standard action but you can still do so only once per turn.
Nick When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
Alright alright thanks guys. It appears as though everyone is in agreement. I can use Weapon A with Nick then action surge and use Weapon B with Nick for a total of 2 free attacks a turn when action surge is used.
Alright alright thanks guys. It appears as though everyone is in agreement. I can use Weapon A with Nick then action surge and use Weapon B with Nick for a total of 2 free attacks a turn when action surge is used.
We are not in agreement and that’s not how D&D language works. As a DM when you read “When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.” It means you can only make the extra attack provided by the light weapon property only once a turn. It doesn’t matter how many abilities or features that allow you to make the light weapons extra attack if you use nick you could only do it once per turn.
Alright alright thanks guys. It appears as though everyone is in agreement. I can use Weapon A with Nick then action surge and use Weapon B with Nick for a total of 2 free attacks a turn when action surge is used.
We are not in agreement and that’s not how D&D language works. As a DM when you read “When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.” It means you can only make the extra attack provided by the light weapon property only once a turn. It doesn’t matter how many abilities or features that allow you to make the light weapons extra attack if you use nick you could only do it once per turn.
Yeah, that sentence is clearly there to prevent either double use of Nick on one turn, or use of Nick + the Bonus Action attack on the same turn
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Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Alright alright thanks guys. It appears as though everyone is in agreement. I can use Weapon A with Nick then action surge and use Weapon B with Nick for a total of 2 free attacks a turn when action surge is used.
It doesn't really seem like there is agreement. As I already said in the first answer, I think the intention is that it only applies once per turn (even if you have two daggers or whatever). Now I've been able to read what the rule says and, sure enough, it says that it can't be applied more than once per turn. Then it doesn't matter if you have more than one attack action for whatever reason. You will only be able to apply it once per turn.
But the question is fine, since it will allow us to tell WoTC in the playtest survey to clarify this 100% so that there are no doubts. Because you can already see that many people are going to want to twist that rule to make zillions of attacks per turn.
Sorry, but I am unclear about one detail of the NICK property.
NICK (Prerequisite: Light Property): When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
From what I read, the NICK propensity shifts the attack from the bonus action to part of the Attack action, so that the bonus action is free, but it is not clear to me whether I can still use the bonus action to attack with the light secondary weapon.
Especially the phrase << You can still make this extra attack only once per turn >>, makes me think that it refers to the bonus attack and therefore the number of attacks does not change, but simply frees up the bonus action so that it can be sacrificed for other features other than the secondary weapon attack.
Sorry, but I am unclear about one detail of the NICK property.
NICK (Prerequisite: Light Property): When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
From what I read, the NICK propensity shifts the attack from the bonus action to part of the Attack action, so that the bonus action is free, but it is not clear to me whether I can still use the bonus action to attack with the light secondary weapon.
Especially the phrase << You can still make this extra attack only once per turn >>, makes me think that it refers to the bonus attack and therefore the number of attacks does not change, but simply frees up the bonus action so that it can be sacrificed for other features other than the secondary weapon attack.
imagine you could take two extra attacks during an attack action. your main hand weapon has the Nick property, and the off hand weapon is light. when it's your turn in combat you attack: #1, #2, #3 with main hand. then you attack with your off hand: strike #4. so far you have used only your Action. you don't get two or three off-hand strikes, just one. Nick has done only one thing for you and that is to free up your Bonus Action for something else.
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Sorry, but I am unclear about one detail of the NICK property.
NICK (Prerequisite: Light Property): When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
From what I read, the NICK propensity shifts the attack from the bonus action to part of the Attack action, so that the bonus action is free, but it is not clear to me whether I can still use the bonus action to attack with the light secondary weapon.
Especially the phrase << You can still make this extra attack only once per turn >>, makes me think that it refers to the bonus attack and therefore the number of attacks does not change, but simply frees up the bonus action so that it can be sacrificed for other features other than the secondary weapon attack.
imagine you could take two extra attacks during an attack action. your main hand weapon has the Nick property, and the off hand weapon is light. when it's your turn in combat you attack: #1, #2, #3 with main hand. then you attack with your off hand: strike #4. so far you have used only your Action. you don't get two or three off-hand strikes, just one. Nick has done only one thing for you and that is to free up your Bonus Action for something else.
But shouldn't the NICK property only be accessible to the secondary weapon, the one that does the bonus action attack?
So if we are talking about a 3-level fighter, it would have 1 attack with the main weapon and a second attack with the secondary weapon with a total of 2 attacks, while in the bonus action it will have to use something other than the attack with the secondary weapon.
So if I understand correctly, NICK doesn't give any additional attack, just moves the bonus attack into the action attack.
You understand correctly. The description of the Nick property explicitly states that you can't make an extra attack with a light weapon more than once per turn; it just moves that attack into part of the Attack action so you can use your bonus action for something else.
For example, a Monk could attack with a handaxe, then the attack from an off-hand dagger (via Nick), and then make an unarmed strike via their bonus action.
Would be nice if the monk had the two-weapon fighting style, otherwise better to keep the advantage for the MA attack instead 1d4 without adding your score modifier.
Sorry, but I am unclear about one detail of the NICK property.
NICK (Prerequisite: Light Property): When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
From what I read, the NICK propensity shifts the attack from the bonus action to part of the Attack action, so that the bonus action is free, but it is not clear to me whether I can still use the bonus action to attack with the light secondary weapon.
Especially the phrase << You can still make this extra attack only once per turn >>, makes me think that it refers to the bonus attack and therefore the number of attacks does not change, but simply frees up the bonus action so that it can be sacrificed for other features other than the secondary weapon attack.
Yes. It's a very good feature for characters with a lot of bonus actions that they might want to take instead of attacking, like a Rogue. It could even be decent for something like a War Domain Cleric which has other bonus actions they might want to be taking. Given they don't have shield proficiency, the Rogue being able to use two shortswords for (effectively) 2d6+dex modifier a turn, and doubling up on their chance to get off Sneak Attack, is a big benefit.
To clarify 2d6+Dex = 1d6+Dex + 1d6, to avoid confusion of 2x(1d6+Dex), as it doesn’t have two-weapon fighting style. But mainly 2 chances to land Sneak Attack not using the Bonus Action.
To clarify 2d6+Dex = 1d6+Dex + 1d6, to avoid confusion of 2x(1d6+Dex), as it doesn’t have two-weapon fighting style. But mainly 2 chances to land Sneak Attack not using the Bonus Action.
With the actual wording I am still thinking a fighter could do two extra attacks, but he would have to use action surge and his bonus action on the second attack (you can only use Nick once per turn). The light property does state one extra attack, but it does not clearly indicate what happens if you take multiple Attack actions. The Nick property says "You can make this extra attack only once per turn.". I conject that "this" refers to the Nick extra attack not extra attacks in general. Otherwise, it should be simple as "You can make only one extra attack per turn." which would have probably gone in the light property not the Nick property.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
With the actual wording I am still thinking a fighter could do two extra attacks, but he would have to use action surge and his bonus action on the second attack (you can only use Nick once per turn). The light property does state one extra attack, but it does not clearly indicate what happens if you take multiple Attack actions. The Nick property says "You can make this extra attack only once per turn.". I conject that "this" refers to the Nick extra attack not extra attacks in general. Otherwise, it should be simple as "You can make only one extra attack per turn." which would have probably gone in the light property not the Nick property.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
I don't think so.
Nick Mastery especifically suplants Light Weapon Property extra attack with BA, to be used during the Attack Action. It just leaves your Bonus Action free to use in other stuff. You could attack with the BA if you have something else that gives you a BA attack (for example Monks Martial Arts bonus attack), but not the one the Light Property gave you.
In another Hand, if your DM goes with your interpretation (its a different light weapon producing the bonus action, etc)... then cool for you.
^ this. Nick only ever offers you one extra attack per turn and does not use your bonus action to do so. You need the DW feat to get an extra attack, and that cares not about action surge either.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The "this attack" referred to in Nick is the BA attack from the Light weapon property. So if you are using Light weapons you can only make 1 additional attack apart from those you make with your normal Extra Attack/Attack actions per turn. However, if you have a different way to get a bonus action attack other than from the "Light" weapon property - e.g. PAM or GWM or Monk's BA unarmed strike - then you can still use that bonus action attack in addition to your Nick attack.
Based on what I saw above, and the numerous questions I see in the r/Onednd, it seems like a good idea to have JC write an article specifying how all this works.
Yeah, by my reading, you could make three attacks when wielding two daggers. Attack Action with dagger A, Nick attack as part of the Attack Action with dagger B, you have now satisfied the prerequisite for making a Bonus Action attack (used a Light Weapon to make an attack as part of the Attack Action with dagger B), so you can use your BA to make an attack with dagger A.
Nick just says that the Nick attack can only be used once per turn so you can't just chain dagger attacks forever. I think you would still qualify for the BA Light attack, right?
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I thought of a question about how these two features would interact with an action surge. If I was holding Dagger A and Dagger B. My question is Regarding the once per turn restriction on Nick, and how Weapon Properties are applied.
I would be a second level fighter. I'll also take the two weapon fighting Fighting Style.
I take the attack action and Attack with Dagger A. I use the Nick property of Dagger B.
If I then action surge and take the attack action, but this time I attack with Dagger B. Could I use the Nick property Dagger A possesses? Or is it not possible because I had already used the Nick property of Dagger B.
Well, it seems pretty clear that the intent is that you can only do the light property extra attack once per turn. Right now I don't know how wording is, and maybe they should explain it better. But I'm sure that's the intention.
I don't think you can make this extra attack twice even with action surge. Due to the wording of nick and referencing the extra attack.
The light property allows you to make an extra attack using a bonus action. Nick allows you to instead make it apart of your standard action but you can still do so only once per turn.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
Alright alright thanks guys. It appears as though everyone is in agreement. I can use Weapon A with Nick then action surge and use Weapon B with Nick for a total of 2 free attacks a turn when action surge is used.
We are not in agreement and that’s not how D&D language works. As a DM when you read “When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.” It means you can only make the extra attack provided by the light weapon property only once a turn. It doesn’t matter how many abilities or features that allow you to make the light weapons extra attack if you use nick you could only do it once per turn.
Yeah, that sentence is clearly there to prevent either double use of Nick on one turn, or use of Nick + the Bonus Action attack on the same turn
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It doesn't really seem like there is agreement. As I already said in the first answer, I think the intention is that it only applies once per turn (even if you have two daggers or whatever). Now I've been able to read what the rule says and, sure enough, it says that it can't be applied more than once per turn. Then it doesn't matter if you have more than one attack action for whatever reason. You will only be able to apply it once per turn.
But the question is fine, since it will allow us to tell WoTC in the playtest survey to clarify this 100% so that there are no doubts. Because you can already see that many people are going to want to twist that rule to make zillions of attacks per turn.
Sorry, but I am unclear about one detail of the NICK property.
From what I read, the NICK propensity shifts the attack from the bonus action to part of the Attack action, so that the bonus action is free, but it is not clear to me whether I can still use the bonus action to attack with the light secondary weapon.
Especially the phrase << You can still make this extra attack only once per turn >>, makes me think that it refers to the bonus attack and therefore the number of attacks does not change, but simply frees up the bonus action so that it can be sacrificed for other features other than the secondary weapon attack.
imagine you could take two extra attacks during an attack action. your main hand weapon has the Nick property, and the off hand weapon is light. when it's your turn in combat you attack: #1, #2, #3 with main hand. then you attack with your off hand: strike #4. so far you have used only your Action. you don't get two or three off-hand strikes, just one. Nick has done only one thing for you and that is to free up your Bonus Action for something else.
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But shouldn't the NICK property only be accessible to the secondary weapon, the one that does the bonus action attack?
So if we are talking about a 3-level fighter, it would have 1 attack with the main weapon and a second attack with the secondary weapon with a total of 2 attacks, while in the bonus action it will have to use something other than the attack with the secondary weapon.
So if I understand correctly, NICK doesn't give any additional attack, just moves the bonus attack into the action attack.
Would be nice if the monk had the two-weapon fighting style, otherwise better to keep the advantage for the MA attack instead 1d4 without adding your score modifier.
Yes. It's a very good feature for characters with a lot of bonus actions that they might want to take instead of attacking, like a Rogue. It could even be decent for something like a War Domain Cleric which has other bonus actions they might want to be taking. Given they don't have shield proficiency, the Rogue being able to use two shortswords for (effectively) 2d6+dex modifier a turn, and doubling up on their chance to get off Sneak Attack, is a big benefit.
To clarify 2d6+Dex = 1d6+Dex + 1d6, to avoid confusion of 2x(1d6+Dex), as it doesn’t have two-weapon fighting style. But mainly 2 chances to land Sneak Attack not using the Bonus Action.
Yes, that's the one.
With the actual wording I am still thinking a fighter could do two extra attacks, but he would have to use action surge and his bonus action on the second attack (you can only use Nick once per turn). The light property does state one extra attack, but it does not clearly indicate what happens if you take multiple Attack actions. The Nick property says "You can make this extra attack only once per turn.". I conject that "this" refers to the Nick extra attack not extra attacks in general. Otherwise, it should be simple as "You can make only one extra attack per turn." which would have probably gone in the light property not the Nick property.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
No
I don't think so.
Nick Mastery especifically suplants Light Weapon Property extra attack with BA, to be used during the Attack Action. It just leaves your Bonus Action free to use in other stuff.
You could attack with the BA if you have something else that gives you a BA attack (for example Monks Martial Arts bonus attack), but not the one the Light Property gave you.
In another Hand, if your DM goes with your interpretation (its a different light weapon producing the bonus action, etc)... then cool for you.
^ this. Nick only ever offers you one extra attack per turn and does not use your bonus action to do so. You need the DW feat to get an extra attack, and that cares not about action surge either.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
^
^
The "this attack" referred to in Nick is the BA attack from the Light weapon property. So if you are using Light weapons you can only make 1 additional attack apart from those you make with your normal Extra Attack/Attack actions per turn. However, if you have a different way to get a bonus action attack other than from the "Light" weapon property - e.g. PAM or GWM or Monk's BA unarmed strike - then you can still use that bonus action attack in addition to your Nick attack.
Based on what I saw above, and the numerous questions I see in the r/Onednd, it seems like a good idea to have JC write an article specifying how all this works.
Yeah, by my reading, you could make three attacks when wielding two daggers. Attack Action with dagger A, Nick attack as part of the Attack Action with dagger B, you have now satisfied the prerequisite for making a Bonus Action attack (used a Light Weapon to make an attack as part of the Attack Action with dagger B), so you can use your BA to make an attack with dagger A.
Nick just says that the Nick attack can only be used once per turn so you can't just chain dagger attacks forever. I think you would still qualify for the BA Light attack, right?